We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
ammoniacal nitrogenous gases above 180° C? Options
 
clouds
#1 Posted : 7/8/2022 5:42:20 PM

Human


Posts: 811
Joined: 28-Nov-2009
Last visit: 28-Jun-2023
Hello Nexus,

A chemist friend of mine said DMT must be vaporized at 180°C max or otherwise it will release toxic ammoniacal nitrogenous gases if combusted.

Is this true or partially true?

Thanks

clouds.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
endlessness
#2 Posted : 7/8/2022 7:45:47 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Moderator

Posts: 14191
Joined: 19-Feb-2008
Last visit: 24-Apr-2024
Location: Jungle
It is definitely possible that combustion generates harsh irritating or toxic by-products, hence our constant recommendation to vaporize instead of smoke.

Im not sure exactly what by-products would form, and at what temperature.

I would ask your chemist friend for sources to his claims. Where does he get the 180c number from? And are the claimed byproducts found experimentally (if so, is it published?) or supposed by his reasoning of the chemical structure and potential breakdown products?

Btw, long time no see
 
starway7
#3 Posted : 7/13/2022 12:58:35 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 589
Joined: 08-Sep-2018
Last visit: 06-Mar-2024
Location: colorado
This is interesting..ive always suspected unhealthy gasses might be present in combusted spice..

I used to do the torch lighter method ... and the spice knew when to vaporize..when it hit the right temperature..but it always hit me fast and hard .. but it left me worrying that i might be inhaling.. negative by products....[or gasses]..or carcinegins... or butane combusted impuritys..

also the exytreemly ..fast conduction.. used with E mesh..might carry some unhealthy by products..or alleast some burnt spice


Vapor quality is why i turned my conduction E MESH into convection e mesh...

I notice a huge difference in the convection vapor...[also using a water trap...[bubbler] ..as it is much lighter almost tastless.. and if you hold it in its very effective..

Some how i always feel safer with convection vapor verses conduction....



 
Brennendes Wasser
#4 Posted : 3/2/2023 7:09:13 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Chemical expert

Posts: 823
Joined: 23-Sep-2017
Last visit: 05-Feb-2024
If I recall correctly in Mass Spectrometry you can have fragments of the side chain (containing the Dimethyl-Amine) and thus at high energy might be possible that this also takes place in non-MS-environments.

Biggest threat might be quaternary ammonia salts as they have a close resemblance to acetyl cholin, that's why there is a bunch of these (N-)quaternary tryptamines in certain fungi poisons. But guess you would need quite a high temperature, like smoking DMT in a cigarette to make wild cross alkylations happening like this.

Still there is really no reason to ever smoke DMT past 200 °C, as it just vaporizes perfectly at 160 - 200 °C if given enough airflow. As long as this temperature is hit then anything you need to do is getting air flow pretty strong to ensure your spice not sitting too long in a concentrated spot, which will cause this caramelizing dark reaction, making it impossible to vaporize further or dissolve. So as higher temperature only makes this unwanted process faster it's best to focus on strong airflow and a temp at 160 - 200 °C.




Differential Scanning Calorimetry takes track of reactions occuring upon increased heating. The data for DMT can be seen here. If the curve is strongly spiking it indicates a heat transition, possibly due to a reaction.

As you see:
At T = 230 °C
and
At T > 260 °C
something is happening. That could be the first sign of thermal degradation, not necessarily what you mean but some kind of combustion (even though that would be more likely a curve going downwards, which indicates exotherm reactions.). Therefore: Any heat above 200 °C will not help and only makes things worse. We should all move from open-flame setups to something more precise Love
 
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.012 seconds.