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Cool trick to alter the DMT experience using mushrooms Options
 
Rolinwama
#1 Posted : 11/17/2021 3:30:18 AM
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Hello,

During my experiments with DMT I have discovered a cool way to alter the experience using mushrooms.

tl;dr:
microdose mushrooms (max 0.5g of cubes for example) and try DMT the next day (important! Read down below why). Experience will be slowed down, more vivid, more colorful.
One small update to the protocol: if the DMT works weaker than it should it means you still have cross-tolerance. In this case I suggest increasing the spice dosage until satisfied with results. Can't give any guideline on by how much to increase - you need to figure this out on your own. If it still works weakly try on the next day (so 2 days after microdose)

The Background:
My beginnings with DMT were during times when I microdosed mushrooms using the 1 dose every third day way, with a full trip once per month or so. My initial experiences with DMT were very pleasant, very rich and vivid. At some point those experiences began to be very chaotic, in your face with visuals going too fast to remember them. This coincided with time where I stopped microdosing mushrooms. That "new" type of experienced threw me off a bit, was unpleasant to the point where I stopped consuming DMT altogether. I thought body needs to rest for some longer period before using the spice again.

After some time I decided to try again. Again, the experience was chaotic, fast and rather unpleasant. It was like that few more times. I was wondering what has changed that my experiences started to be completely different during relatively short period of time. One idea was, that I was shrooming back then with some microdosing on top. I decided to take a microdose and try DMT trip the next day. It was a completely different experience! It was again very slow, vivid, none of the chaotic stuff. I have repeated this a few times and without a doubt it works.

Why does it work? I think the tolerance built by mushrooms affects the way DMT works. Strongest differences in DMT experience are always during the heightened mushroom tolerance period. Will it work for you as well? I don't know, this is why I am writing this thread. I am curious for some feedback on this. Also note: tolerance from DMT itself does not work this way, in my experience trying to breakthrough too soon after a DMT trip is very unpleasant and has very "unnatural" feel to it.

BIG FAT WARNING:
If you don't want unpleasant effects do NOT vape DMT the same day mushrooms were microdosed, even after 8-10 hours or so! Once I did so 8 hours after the microdose and the trip was so bizarre I genuinely thought I had damaged my brain. After vaping the DMT did not come up for solid 2-3 minutes or so. Then there was suddenly a horrible feeling something "external" forces itself into the trip and stuff got super weird, I would describe this as "psilocybin breakthough" simulated with DMT. Things were literally switching places in front of my eyes like there was some jester devil moving them to scare me, severe thought loops and terror caused by a thought, that I messed up my mind for good this time. I do not recommend doing this at all. Vaping DMT on the next day though... completely different story.

The Differences:
Normal DMT trips are very fast paced and chaotic. The visuals move and change so fast it's very hard to look at them and remember them.
This mushroom modulation described here slows things down, makes them vivid in a more pronounced way than even harmalas do, it lets you stare and remember.

I hope this will be useful to anyone, please let me know if you tried and it made a difference for you. Also please do heed the big fat warning above.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Rolinwama
#2 Posted : 11/17/2021 2:03:51 PM
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One thing worth mentioning - I have some freebase harmalas and experimented a bit to compare DMT trip using this mushroom trick with sublingual harmalas before DMT vape.

Harmalas: they slow down literally everything, including come-up and come-down. It's like you want to get to the fireworks show but everything gets slower including dressing up before leaving the house, driving to the place, the show itself and then the return home. Visual space is easier to navigate and a bit more vivid than with just pure DMT. Additionally the come-down is a bit too long for my taste and harmalas leave me with some headaches after the trip.

Post-mushroom microdose: the only thing that is slowed down and extended are the fireworks using the analogy above. In my experience the CEVs are far richer than with harmalas. Brighter, more colorful and even easier to navigate. Another thing that can happen are cool auditory hallucinations (you know, the ones you get on heroic mushroom dose in complete silence).

To me this mushroom way is definitely an upgrade to harmalas. Maybe one day I will mix the harmalas+pre-microdose and will let you know.
 
Voidmatrix
#3 Posted : 11/17/2021 6:23:39 PM

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Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.

I enjoy vaping small amounts of DMT while on mushrooms. Have you tried that? If so, what are your thoughts (and I mean a low to average mushroom dose, not micro)?

I think this particular kind of potentiation may be a result of the similarities inherent in psilocybin and DMT (not many atoms different, and psilocybin is a DMT molecule with other atoms added to I believe the 4 position, so is 4poDMT, and psilosin is 4hoDMT).

I'll give this a try sometime soon and report back within the scope of your suggested methodology.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
Dirty T
#4 Posted : 11/17/2021 6:29:01 PM

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I have experienced breakthrough with psilocybin several times and it is very clear and slower compared to DMT. I'm not sure what was going on when you mixed the two of them but that sounds very strange. At low doses they have very similar effects (10mg DMT vs 3.5g Psilocybin). My latest find has been combining 3.5g mush with 250ug LSD then breakthrough 2 or 3 hours later and my experience was wonderful, absolutely amazing and the most gentle hyperspace yet, it came to me instead of the other way around. I had a theory about hitting all the different 5ht and adrenal receptors with a combination of lower doses of a and m plus a breakthrough dose of DMT would provide the same relief as a 2oz dose of mush and it worked!
 
Rolinwama
#5 Posted : 11/17/2021 9:08:25 PM
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Quote:
I enjoy vaping small amounts of DMT while on mushrooms. Have you tried that? If so, what are your thoughts (and I mean a low to average mushroom dose, not micro)?


Yes, I tried it that way too but never got as interesting results as i do in the OP method. For me mushrooms have this "foggy" and "mindf*cky" qualities which are not there when I do this trick. When I smoked DMT 8 hours after microdose (the big fat warning part of OP), it was THE most mindf*** I had ever and my regular mushroom trips are between 5-6g of dry cubes.

Quote:
I think this particular kind of potentiation may be a result of the similarities inherent in psilocybin and DMT (not many atoms different, and psilocybin is a DMT molecule with other atoms added to I believe the 4 position, so is 4poDMT, and psilosin is 4hoDMT).


I am almost completely sure it has to do with being sober while having tolerance up. Some potential explanation science-wise would be awesome Smile

Quote:
I'll give this a try sometime soon and report back within the scope of your suggested methodology.


Please do! It would be a bummer if it worked that way only for me. It really adds another layer to the DMT trip which I couldn't achieve with harmalas.

Quote:
I have experienced breakthrough with psilocybin several times and it is very clear and slower compared to DMT.

This is exactly what I experience consistently with DMT using the method described in OP. But not when I do it on the same day, then it's very scary.
 
Voidmatrix
#6 Posted : 11/18/2021 1:27:11 AM

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Rolinwama wrote:
Quote:
I enjoy vaping small amounts of DMT while on mushrooms. Have you tried that? If so, what are your thoughts (and I mean a low to average mushroom dose, not micro)?


Yes, I tried it that way too but never got as interesting results as i do in the OP method. For me mushrooms have this "foggy" and "mindf*cky" qualities which are not there when I do this trick. When I smoked DMT 8 hours after microdose (the big fat warning part of OP), it was THE most mindf*** I had ever and my regular mushroom trips are between 5-6g of dry cubes.

Quote:
I think this particular kind of potentiation may be a result of the similarities inherent in psilocybin and DMT (not many atoms different, and psilocybin is a DMT molecule with other atoms added to I believe the 4 position, so is 4poDMT, and psilosin is 4hoDMT).


I am almost completely sure it has to do with being sober while having tolerance up. Some potential explanation science-wise would be awesome Smile

Quote:
I'll give this a try sometime soon and report back within the scope of your suggested methodology.


Please do! It would be a bummer if it worked that way only for me. It really adds another layer to the DMT trip which I couldn't achieve with harmalas.

Quote:
I have experienced breakthrough with psilocybin several times and it is very clear and slower compared to DMT.

This is exactly what I experience consistently with DMT using the method described in OP. But not when I do it on the same day, then it's very scary.


I'm not sure there's a cross tolerance between psilocybin and DMT, though they are both serotonergic if I'm not mistaken.

Probably won't have time until sometime next week or the week after, but I won't forget. And I'll be sure it's either freebase or enhanced leaf and not changa. I will say that I do really love harmalas though.

Will be in touch Smile

One love

What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
Seeingisbelieving
#7 Posted : 11/18/2021 2:21:39 AM

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Sounds interesting Smile I micro dose psilocybin once a week so I'll be sure to give this a try once I resume smoalking dmt in one more month.
 
dragonrider
#8 Posted : 11/19/2021 12:31:06 PM

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It makes sense to suppose there is some cross-tolerance between the two. Psilocin activates the same receptors and also produces experiences that are somewhat simmilar.

I've not tried this method yet, but it sounds interesting.

It could be that the cause of this alteration is more psychological in nature than pharmacological.

Being more open to the experience definately has an effect on the depth and quality of it, in my opinion.

There is a way to find out. You could prime yourself to associate something with the DMT experience. For instance by listening to a specific piece of music prior to blasting of, or afterwards, that you normally don't listen to very often.

If listening to that piece of music again, alters the experience in a simmilar way, then you know the effect is psychological in nature.

There is also something like the placebo-effect, so to cancel that out, it would be most effective to realy convince yourself beforehand, that listening to that piece of music will indeed affect your experience in a simmilar way.
 
Rolinwama
#9 Posted : 11/19/2021 1:02:10 PM
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Quote:
It makes sense to suppose there is some cross-tolerance between the two. Psilocin activates the same receptors and also produces experiences that are somewhat simmilar.

I've not tried this method yet, but it sounds interesting.

It could be that the cause of this alteration is more psychological in nature than pharmacological.

Being more open to the experience definately has an effect on the depth and quality of it, in my opinion.

There is a way to find out. You could prime yourself to associate something with the DMT experience. For instance by listening to a specific piece of music prior to blasting of, or afterwards, that you normally don't listen to very often.

If listening to that piece of music again, alters the experience in a simmilar way, then you know the effect is psychological in nature.

There is also something like the placebo-effect, so to cancel that out, it would be most effective to realy convince yourself beforehand, that listening to that piece of music will indeed affect your experience in a simmilar way.



Hello, yes - I think there may be some subjective placebo effects in play as well for me, however I am almost completely sure the cross-tolerance between psilocybin and DMT also actually makes the diffrence.

For me personally this has better effect in slowing down and enhancing experience than harmalas and I guess you could also assign some placebo effect to using harmalas too (in addition to MAOI effect).

I have vaped through about 40-50g of DMT so far and this trick works for me without single fail - I have some harmalas freebase lying around which I don't use anymore because this psilocybin trick so effective.

But yes, all of the psychedelic land is subjective - this is why I am excited for someone else to try it out and let me know if it works for them. Smile
 
Voidmatrix
#10 Posted : 11/19/2021 1:20:22 PM

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In doing a brief search looking for data relevant to potential cross tolerance between DMT and psilocybin, I'm not finding much that supports the idea (though within a certain logical frame makes sense). There does seem to be cross tolerance with LSD however.

I'm leaning towards no to very minimal cross tolerance between DMT and psilocybin. They seem complimentary and potentiating imo and experience.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
Rolinwama
#11 Posted : 11/19/2021 2:44:28 PM
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Quote:
In doing a brief search looking for data relevant to potential cross tolerance between DMT and psilocybin, I'm not finding much that supports the idea (though within a certain logical frame makes sense). There does seem to be cross tolerance with LSD however.

I'm leaning towards no to very minimal cross tolerance between DMT and psilocybin. They seem complimentary and potentiating imo and experience.


With this method, microdose day 1 and vape dmt day 2 you are completely sober of any psilocybin effects when dmt is vaped. The only thing that could possibly still be there is the tolerance.

It would be awesome if someone finally actually try it Very happy It's a super simple tek!

I was also thinking about slight modification of this tek with LSD instead of psilocybin, but I don't have any LSD around (and I have no plans to have it in any foreseeable future)
 
dragonrider
#12 Posted : 11/19/2021 2:56:34 PM

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Voidmatrix wrote:
In doing a brief search looking for data relevant to potential cross tolerance between DMT and psilocybin, I'm not finding much that supports the idea (though within a certain logical frame makes sense). There does seem to be cross tolerance with LSD however.

I'm leaning towards no to very minimal cross tolerance between DMT and psilocybin. They seem complimentary and potentiating imo and experience.

One love

Yeah, there is not as much research on DMT as there is on shrooms, LSD and mescaline.

And for some silly reason, there is also very little scientific research on how to maximally trip balls.

Lot's of work to do hereBig grin
 
Dirty T
#13 Posted : 11/19/2021 5:42:45 PM

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I am doing a treatment tonight but will try what you described in this thread next weekend to see how it goes. I'm taking 3.5g albino and PE, 250 ug and 30mg DMT for my treatments currently.
 
Voidmatrix
#14 Posted : 11/19/2021 6:10:05 PM

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dragonrider wrote:
Voidmatrix wrote:
In doing a brief search looking for data relevant to potential cross tolerance between DMT and psilocybin, I'm not finding much that supports the idea (though within a certain logical frame makes sense). There does seem to be cross tolerance with LSD however.

I'm leaning towards no to very minimal cross tolerance between DMT and psilocybin. They seem complimentary and potentiating imo and experience.

One love

Yeah, there is not as much research on DMT as there is on shrooms, LSD and mescaline.

And for some silly reason, there is also very little scientific research on how to maximally trip balls.

Lot's of work to do hereBig grin


Lots of work indeed. That said, certain plans fell through and am thinking that I may try this this weekend.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
downwardsfromzero
#15 Posted : 11/19/2021 7:08:59 PM

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Voidmatrix wrote:
dragonrider wrote:
Voidmatrix wrote:
In doing a brief search looking for data relevant to potential cross tolerance between DMT and psilocybin, I'm not finding much that supports the idea (though within a certain logical frame makes sense). There does seem to be cross tolerance with LSD however.

I'm leaning towards no to very minimal cross tolerance between DMT and psilocybin. They seem complimentary and potentiating imo and experience.

One love

Yeah, there is not as much research on DMT as there is on shrooms, LSD and mescaline.

And for some silly reason, there is also very little scientific research on how to maximally trip balls.

Lot's of work to do hereBig grin


Lots of work indeed. That said, certain plans fell through and am thinking that I may try this this weekend.

One love

Now, I may not have been paying attention (spoiler: I wasn't) but, in the interests of replicability, is there a specific protocol for how this would be carried out?




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Voidmatrix
#16 Posted : 11/19/2021 7:58:40 PM

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Specificity here seems a little vague, but simply, microdose one day, then dose DMT the next. According to the Op, the expected effect similar (and preferred by the Op) to harmala potentiation. I'm going to shoot for a 12 to 18 hour gap.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
downwardsfromzero
#17 Posted : 11/19/2021 10:35:57 PM

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Ah, OK, thanks. The rue brew was kicking in fairly strongly when I typed the question and things got a bit foggy Laughing

Testing the harmala-like potentiation would entail me not ingesting harmalas for a bit Big grin




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Rolinwama
#18 Posted : 11/19/2021 11:55:00 PM
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Microdose during day on day 1, vape DMT on day 2 after good night's sleep (any time during the day, morning/night whatever works for you)

Voidmatrix got it 100% rightThumbs up
 
Voidmatrix
#19 Posted : 11/20/2021 1:13:05 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
Ah, OK, thanks. The rue brew was kicking in fairly strongly when I typed the question and things got a bit foggy Laughing

Testing the harmala-like potentiation would entail me not ingesting harmalas for a bit Big grin


Me as well. I am going to skip tomorrow's rue tea (or perhaps it's more apt to say replacing with 0.2g to 0.3g of mushroom that evening). I am also skipping smoalking changa, as had been previously planned for this evening (though I could use a maintenance session). When I take the journey, I'll load 30mg to 40mg of 50/50 enhanced leaf (Mullein Leaf).

You've already got a couple guinea pigs Rolinwama Smile

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
Rolinwama
#20 Posted : 11/20/2021 2:04:08 AM
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Quote:
0.2g to 0.3g of mushroom


go with 0.5g mate, for the science! Big grin

Quote:
I'll load 30mg to 40mg of 50/50 enhanced leaf


Go with whatever is a breakthrough dose for you Smile

Quote:
You've already got a couple guinea pigs Rolinwama


I really hope it does work for you and everyone else. The experience is so much different and if it really does work for you as it does for me then please spread the word. Smile



Oh by the way, regarding this:
Quote:
If listening to that piece of music again, alters the experience in a simmilar way, then you know the effect is psychological in nature.

There is also something like the placebo-effect, so to cancel that out, it would be most effective to realy convince yourself beforehand, that listening to that piece of music will indeed affect your experience in a simmilar way.


Indeed there is some priming with music but for me it's not as strong as I had hoped. I have a set of music which I am using exclusively for my DMT trips (so not even for mushrooms). Some pieces of that music that produced best trips of my life (for me those were ones filled with motherly love) cannot induce that again. The mushroom thingy from the OP made it a lot closer to that.

BTW I higly recommend Stone Rebel for spice trips:
https://stonerebel1.bandcamp.com/track/crystal

I just avoid listening with bass/subwoofer up, my DMT thingys hate when the bass is too loud.
 
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