Hello all,

I have been pondering recently whether an oral DMT experience, either ayahuasca or pharmahuasca would be appropriate for me. I'm not considering conducting the experience for some time, especially after my recent unpleasant changa experience which has been posted on this forum, however I would like some thoughts on whether an oral DMT trip is 'comparable' to anything else which I have done.

I have taken extensive amounts of LSD, at high doses (several trips between 800μg and up to 1mg) with no issues. I am not encouraging this behaviour at all - I worked my way up to these sorts of doses over years of taking psychedelics and it was right for me, personally, at the time. I've had some very unpleasant (although still useful) LSD trips, and I've had some challenging changa experiences, both sub-breakthrough and my recent first breakthrough experience. I am concerned that an oral DMT experience would be more challenging than any of those, and I want to make sure I am as prepared as is humanly possible, when I finally do it.

My question is whether an oral DMT experience is going to be similar to either a high dose LSD experience, or a smoked DMT experience - or perhaps anything else? My gut feeling is that oral DMT is in a 'league of it's own', and is a hugely complex topic with all sorts of different admixtures available for use - it's not straightforward like taking a dose of LSD is.

Some questions, which I would be grateful to have answered:

1) Can the oral DMT experience perhaps be considered more gentle than the smoked DMT experience? Does the slower come up allow one more time to come to terms with their 'fate', even if they ultimately end up submitting totally to the experience?

2) Are extended trips into the 'breakthrough realm' likely, or common on an oral DMT experience?

3) Are oral DMT experiences similar in nature to smoked DMT experiences, in terms of visuals, headspace, both pre and post breakthrough?

4) Are atypical antipsychotics, such as Seroquel, effective in stopping the oral DMT experience in case of an emergency, such as they do with LSD and other psychedelics?

5) Is there anything specific that an oral DMT experience can be compared to, or is it really a league of it's own?

Thank you for reading and I look forward to your replies.

I recommend starting with a low dose, so you get to see for yourself.

With inhaled dmt (if taking high doses) you are shot to incomprehensible dimensions in just a few seconds. With oral DMT you get more time to experience the lower levels, which really helps with integration and getting better at learning to navigate the hyperspace realms.

Last time I took pharmahuasca, I spent a while in the breakthrough realm. The dose was a bit too high, so I can't remember anything I experienced there, I just felt the familiarity. That trip was also the only time I seriously wanted to have trip killers, but I'm glad I didn't, since I learned a lot about endurance through that experience. I am much stronger than I thought. Next time when I feel overwhelmed, I am more confident, I will get through it eventually.

I really recommended trying it. Just start slow.

Another tack is first to familiarise yourself with the effects of harmala alkaloids - the simplest way being either rue tea or encapsulated, ground Syrian rue seed. This in itself can be quite rewarding from a health and personal development angle. After becoming accustomed to the nuances of harmalas on their own you can add increments of DMT. I think you'd be quite comfortable with this calibration process. Sub-psychedelic doses of DMT with a non-incapacitating dose of harmalas can be quite nootropic IME...

^^ What they said.

I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability from my own experience (which is limited), what's been shared by others, and my own research.

1)Yes and yes. The onset of vaped DMT is within seconds. Orally, at least 30 minutes.

2)Dosing orally is not the same as vaping. When vaping, 5mg can make a huge difference. Not so much with orally active DMT. It's easier to dose for the experience you're looking for. If you start low, 30mg should be pretty mild and a good starting point. You can always redose later if you like.

3)Yes and no. They take on a different character and form, but can still be real wild.

4) Not sure on that one.

5)Low level experiences kind of remind me of mushrooms. Still VERY different though.

One love

Yup. Many years ago I spent a few weeks with a respected ayahuasca maestro, and his introductory brew for everyone was vine only. It really helped you get comfortable with the experiences that followed.

Haven’t done pharma, though it’s more appealing for me these days as the “predictability “ of precise dosage fits my current lifestyle a bit better.

With a strong aya brew I’ll spend the beginnings of the come-up with a buzzy warm embrace. As if I’m under the protection of some sort of diety. Then comes a period of self awareness and self assessment that is typical for me with most psychedelic experiences. After I’ve navigated through some personal issues, I usually enter the more visionary states that can be anything from time travel to encountering aliens. Sometimes the immersive part fades in and out and sometimes there are sustained periods in hyperspace that last an hour or two in real time. These can be challenging, but the harmalas mitigate a lot of what would be significant anxiety for me with other substances. Aya never gave me that, being crazy, feeling that a big dose of lsd often did.


It’s much easier for me psychologically and emotionally than the brute force of the vaped experience, though both have their merits. I wouldn’t hesitate to follow the advice of the others who’ve posted already. Just take it easy and dip your toes in when you feel ready for it.

Excellent insight and advice in here already. I have not done aya in any form, but I plan too soon. My jam is changa when I really want to fly, otherwise I drink rue juice and smoke harmala-laced delta 8. I even put harmala in my rapé. I have found that the entire spectrum of harmala experience is vast, profound, and absolutely loving. I have even had purgative experiences on just rue alone, probably my most intense experience ever, and no DMT was involved. I highly recommend developing a healthy relationship with harmala. I feel like my changa experiences are much more intense than even my freebase experiences anymore as I like to go heavy with the harmalas and still smoke enough for a breakthrough, but it is also so much more loving and grounded. Other than my first freebase breakthrough and my godhead connection trip, nothing touches my changa trips these days. The next step for me is the extended, oral experiences, for sure. Anyway, I don't have any statistics or anything, just some anecdotes, but I wanted to chime in on this one as I cannot say enough good about this lovely little compound and is certainly a beautiful place to start as you warm up to the oral DMT experience. Enjoy, and safe travels.