I get that feeling when smoking amounts that deliver only threshold effects. And especially if i do it with other people with in a bad set/setting, which usually results in pretty hellish trips. Its a dysphoric uncomfortable feeling that all i am is stuck in the endless tape of some conscious but meaningless matter. Breakthroughs with it are actually the opposite of this feeling and for me hold as much wonder as many of my spice experiences. Except the physical sensations and complete breakdown of reality on salvia is alot stranger in my opinion.

Thanks for all the replies everyone.
I envy all of you who have tried spice. I wish I could try a different pathway other than salvia. I must admit, the salvia visuals are very alien and bizarre. The most prominant motif in salvia visuals seems to be an awareness of adjacent realities. Sometimes these other (yet similar) realities are packed closely together. It's as if they are potential realities that haven't become 'actualized'. Does this occur with spice trips?

Also, I get the sensation that salvia shows me a small sliver or section of an alien structure. This structure is too strange to be properly expressed in words. I've never read a spice account of "large structures".

And one more thing. One important thing. Salvia seems to have an agenda. The agenda is to get the experience into consensus reality. Salvia seems to play a game with revealment and concealment. It reveals something awe inspiring, but then it conceals it, and the salvia user comes out of the trip with only a reflection of the revelation. I know it's not politically correct to suggest that a hallucinogenic plant has an agenda, but I think salvia has one. The agenda has something to do with the secret. I think that the whole youtube salvia craze is related to the salvia plant's agenda of getting this secret alien 'super structure' out of concealment and into consensus revealment. I'm open to the possibility that I'm totally wrong concerning an agenda. It's just a gut feeling that I have.



Just the opposite. After the 4 minute trip, there is an afterglow which prolongs the sense of ego-loss and leaves me in a very meditative mood. I can then watch my mind begin to re-attach to the conditioned world. Once re-attached, the ego re-integrates with the everyday world, and the angst and boredom return.

Heres my 2 cents on salvia:

Salvia is able to replace the patterns we see on DMT, on LSD, on Psilocybin with things we are most related with - for most people, this is people.

My personal trips consist of being thrown down an eternal tunnel of salvia felshy weird green flouresence people. These things are much like the commercial of the Prius, with the sun and earth being made of people swinging around, flailing etc.

... Salvia showed me some things that... I really cannot, as we all know, place into words.

It is so... mangling to our neurons, so discontorted and stretched...

My purely immature view of salvia is that instead of seeing geometrical patterns, we somehow create the world into symbols and objects, the move and swing much like psilocybin and lsd trips.

I remember vividly digging my nails into a rock trying to pry out the salvia person that was trying to hide his/herself in the rock. I was going to pick it out and prove to me and my friends that the world is created of these tiny people, making up everything, and all our reality is a simple mask to the world salvia lifts the veil to.

IT is SO bizarre how everything in salvia world completely makes sense, and how it is concievable, yet in societies world, in our world... it does not work. It simply doesn't...

I don't think we can understand it at this level of consciousness.

There is a ton of validity to what benzyme is saying here. In my opinion there is no, and should be no, argument regarding which "utility" is better or worse for realizing a greater consciousness. The fact is, that even though most of our brains function in a very similar manner, our brains are also very much like our fingerprints. No two people's brains function in the same way, and no two people's brains fire the same neural pathways the same way when stimulated by a psychoactive substance. Thus, there is no possible way to argue that one substance is more enlightening than another (at least when it comes down to ultra powerful, consciousness expanding substances).

I have postulated many, many theories over the years, about what is really going on when using psychedelic substances in an effort to better understand the greater unknown. I'm not advocating this as truth by any means, but my current theory is that these substances allow our subconscious and the greater collective consciousness (of the multiverse and beyond) to manifest itself in a way that we can (albeit extremely vague) understand. Often this manifestation is in the form of entities or beings, other times it's voices, thoughts, or sounds. However it is manifested it is a very deep look into what lies behind the facade of our physical beings, and the physical world that we experience in our daily unaltered state of mind. And so I digress, but I just wanted to share that theory.

My original point, and why I agree with benzyme's "Different strokes for different folks" comment above, is that every one of our brains is reacting similarly, yet very differently when altered by these god-sent entheogens. So there is no relevance in arguing about which is "better", or which "teaches us more". It's all dependent on the user, and in particular the differences in neurological activity in each of our brains.

Sorry for the ramble. Hope at least someone finds it interesting. Great thread BTW!

Peace!
-idt

This is right... salvia is real, anyhting and everything yo do its all happing at the same time....jsut remove time and everyhing is nice

Your post really rings true with me. The single most amazing visual for me is the reoccurring theme of seeing what I call "interconnecting peoploids". These are strings of cloned people seemingly put together by some neuronal computer drafting software. These peoploids attach together from hand to foot creating the frameworks of larger structures. The structure is constantly morphing and rotating.

Your comment about salvia replacing DMT, LSD, etc patterns with 'familiar' objects like people seems very true to me. Is this simply the way salvinorin alpha binds to receptor cells in the brain, or is there something more profound going on? Alot of salvia heads are familiar with the Prius commercial. I'm certain that there are salvia smoking graphic artists out there who are putting together future commercials and films that are going to blow our F'ing minds.

I"m reading a book titled 'Buddha's Brain". It talks about how, because of our survival instinct, instead of seeing the world as interconnected and changing, we see the world as separate and unchanging. My salvia trips are always interconnected and moving, rotating and morphing. Maybe this is part of the salvia secret......to get us familiar with how the universe truly is.

i gighly highly doubt salvinorin is anything like scopolamine...IMO the disphoria is from takng too low a dose..said it before and il say it again...most people have NO idea what salvia is really capable of..

high doses of scopolamine are just as disorienting.
talking to people that aren't there, change of scenery, etc.

salvia put me in another world, which looked how I'd imagine mars to look.
any further, and I would have reached the amnesic phase. yeah, even salvia has limits.

Does this in anyway remind you of say the cells of the salvia plant its-self, might it be that you are seeing through salvia's eyes, the way salvia sees, feeling the way it exists as say a plant made up of say many peoploides attaching together to make a larger structure, a structure you might see as a plant....


... .....

I have heard many people mention a salvia blackout. This has never happened to me and there is no question I have broken through. Has it maybe happened but I just dont understand the descriptions i have read? Anyone it happen to able to put into words exactly what happened and on what form? (10x, 20x, tincture?
)

The Prius commercial!!!! I total forgot about that. I agree its very salvia based. One of the most startling part of the salvia experience for me was when it spoke to me. I was laying in bed with eyes closed in total surrender. A female voice entered on my right and a male voice to my left. It was as though they were laying down beside me talking to me about how history is a sham and that I shouldn't worry about it. They laughed to each other about how I had gotten "there" and reassured me I was safe. They carried on for the whole duration of the 10 minute experience, talking to me, to each other, laughing and then I was back. One of the last things they said was something about every style of pants. What that has to do with anything is beyond me??? It was both mind blowing yet mundane.

it can happen on 5x, if you get a large enough dose. this 20x, 40, 60x nonsense is a means to get suckers to pay more. you can have a breakthrough dose on standard leaf, if you hit it like you mean it.

and just like it sounds, someone who overdosed wakes up with no memory of the experience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3gFCSKMo70
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px9XB0FxvjI


Good point. There might be a connection. But whoever or whatever is doing the seeing, the visual landscape is very advanced and very alien. It's more than just plants in a Mexican setting, it's an extra-dimensional form of artistic expression.

WHAT!!!!! Those videos are blowing my mind. Thanks for sharing Burningmouth. How did you stumble upon these? Do you know more about those amazing "pants"? Sometimes I just except that what is, is, But man those videos sort of tell me I was there. Maybe a lost memory from before I was last made flesh or....?

Inner,
I was around in the 70s when those were aired.
Find something to smoke and watch these................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoVWHZuftnw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-wUdetAAlY
http://www.youtube.com/w...Y6b8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA5yTAGaRmc

Well sorry but I don't think the plant has any limit. The user is the only one who have limits.
That's why the preparation phase is doing A LOT !!

Funny thing about levi's..levi strauss was an anthropologist..who created a company that made jeans and they used textile patterns that he copied from amazonian ayahuasca drinkers without bothering to compensate the very people that he stole those patterns from..

I still haven't had dmt yet so i can't comment on that, only philosophise lool. The thing that got me with salvia was that no matter if i opened or closed my eyes i couldn't stop seeing what i was seeing. It didn't change anything, quite disconcerting, even on an extreme mushy or mdma or ketamine trip at least you can close your eyes for a change of scenery
I'm interested to know if dmt has this same phenomenon? The more i smoke sally the more i see it as purely recreational (from a psychonauts perspective) other than a revelationary experience, which is why i cant wait to smoke some spice peace out all.

salvia, recreational??? uhh..maybe you need to apprach it differently..i dont even know how you could possabily see it as recreational..maybe raise the dose..I think salvia is as deep into it and as far from recreation as it gets.

Try it in the dark with light music or silence after meditation..at the proper dose..and maybe even quid..i can assure there is nothing recreational about it when done right..

I also dont know how you come to the conclusion that becasue you cant just close your eyes and change the scene that it is somehow recreational becasue of that..I would think just the opposite..and yes..DMT can be just like that..so can mushrooms when you take enough and layin the dark.

You're definitely right concerning the dosage, i doubt ive sampled salvias full potential in any way, i'm just talking from personal experience.
When i say recreational i mean its like a game for your mind not your soul, You take my concept of recreation out of perspective. I dont mean hanging with some friends and getting high kinda recreational. I also never asoociated oev and cev with salvia being recreational.
In my semi experienced psychonaut mindset i can safely say that shrooms outside on a lovely warm sunny day, i have never experienced oev and cev being indistinguishable (that would be a sever freakout) Shrooms should be enjoyed outdoors on a nice day in my opinion and not huddled in a dark room exploring your own mind. I do with salvia though .