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an IV leap into DPT hyperspace (UPDATE: brahman propulsion//astral assault in the torture tetracube) Options
 
necromanteum
#1 Posted : 5/8/2021 12:23:37 PM

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Quote:
I just want to preface this intro by saying a couple things and adding some much needed detail after long consideration. One of the biggest pushes for my decision comes after reading some threads where encountering dark entities has been met with much skepticism, and simply rationalized away as "the chemical doing what it does" (the "wall of text" warning thread from NGC_2264 where he gets into this hyperspace hierarchy of dark beings immediately comes to mind--some outright questioning his motivation/sincerity). That isn't to say this preface is a roundabout endorsement of his thread, or anyone else's for that matter. And people are obviously entitled to think and conclude what they will in response to trip reports. For me, one of the more concise and well put together threads about difficult trips, particularly regarding engagement with predatory entities, was included in my original intro below (a thread from a user named Erik). The most interesting thing I find is there seems to be a common thread running through most of these dark entity tgreads that rings true for my own experience as well. Anyway, here's two clarifications that I need be expressed before you read this lengthy, winded report.

A) First and foremost, I took DPT (N,N-Dipropyltryptamine), also known as "THE LIGHT". DPT is not DMT, although chemically similar. My understanding is that it is synthesized and considered a designer drug (which gives it research chemical status). I know there is information on DMT-NEXUS about the dangers of RCs, and perhaps rightfully so in retrospect.

B) About my attack. I'd like to ask that you don't take what people tell you lightly when they report presences of dark entities out in hyperspace, and that the encounters with them were some of the most difficult experiences of their lives. The words I use below will fall categorically and unequivocally short of what I actually experienced. I can't stress this enough... but I will try to do my best to be descriptive and detailed. As for the particulars of the attack, it's as if a part of me has tried to bury down the memories because they seem too preposterous, too insane to come to grips with. Particularly at times when I have taken THC or delta alternatives, since the trip, details have resurfaced during peak high. I immediately begin to feel waves of panic wash over me at the prospect of becoming overwhelmed with the same experience, or that somewhere down the line (my eventual death) I may have to face it again. In order to restore my sanity during these moments, I have to rationalize the fear away, and attempt to integrate the memories into my spiritual/metaphysical worldview in a calm, collected and self-assured manner. Like telling myself that the experience is a CHOICE. And I have to give away my self-agency, or sovereignty, to fall victim again. It seems to help.


So... I WAS ATTACKED. I feel like there's no plainer words I can use. I realize the word attack itself may be met with some resistance, and that some of you may feel I'm being a bit cavalier in how I express myself. But I think I owe everyone to be as authentic and honest as I know how. Moreover, my words below will fall ridiculously short of the qualitative experience I endured.

So I've had some DPT hcl salt for about 15+ years that I had been hanging onto. It had been stored at room temp, away from light in a dark brown vile that was sealed and stored in a small cardboard box. All my past experiences with it (mostly all snorted) were rather inconsequential and uninteresting. Then for some reason in this year (January, 2021) I IVed a herculean dose that approximately came out to 250mg, and had quite the experience. At the time of ingestion I weighed between 335-345 lbs. While I consider weight as a potential factor for my relatively high threshold point with this chemical, the information gathering on reports from the early 2000s until present day I've done, leads me to believe that this HCL salt may not be as potent as from other sources available both then and today (or the weight to dosage levels aren't quite equivalent, which is problematic for accurate dosing and worth bearing in mind). Most of my lackluster experiences w/ DPT occurred during the period of 2004-2008.

As for the trip, from the onset, I was experiencing what felt like being rejoined with a SOURCE energy (I'm drawn to the concept of Brahman for this). Not only did it feel as if I was fully integrated, it rather felt as if I WAS the source energy; my astral form ascended, providing the life giving energy of existence itself (at least to some degree, obviously wanting to remain humble, but I can tell you in the moment there was nothing humble about it... nor was there anything "WRONG" with that. Like a massive feeling of purity to it.). And it wasn't like a state of nirvana, or absolute calm, it was more like a massive surge of power, but I also took on a sensation of immense density, and at some point it felt like I began to accelerate. Like I was a gamma ray that had just been birthed in the heart of a star. As if matter/energy/light was being drawn into me too, and I was the only thing existing... in some sense generating reality outside me (whether it was in "actuality" or my perception, it's as if this distinction truly didn't exist anymore as the duality of subject and object simply dissolved into pure experience, leaving no room in the mind for speculation or polarization).

I've never felt ANYTHING like it. I felt so incredibly dense... like I could feel the sensation of extreme mass but without the sensation of weight/gravity. It's difficult to explain. Also this unbounded energy/power, as if every atom of my being was crackling and resonating with a radiant electrical potential (the mental projection of my astral form took on a somewhat amorphous blue tinged white light, like imagining yourself as a plasma state or lightning, but if it were existing out in a void of space/blackness... the closest art approximation of how I "saw" myself would be "Universal Mind Lattice" by Alex Grey, altho the qualitative feeling is better represented as his "Vision Crystal" piece). Anyway despite the density of it, I was at the same time feeling the lightest I've ever felt, positively buoyant. Extremely difficult to explain because these seem like contradictory states. This was the peak of my trip, well the pure and beautiful portion of my trip anyway. Prior to experiencing that, shortly after ingesting dpt, my consciousness was doing what could best be described as The Matrix "bullet time mode" thing that the agents did in the original 1999 movie. It felt like I was phase shifting through dozens of different perspectives in what felt like fractions of a second (doubtful if these were femto, or even attoseconds as I feel it would have crazy implications about consciousness, but the speed was ungodly). This is sort of difficult to explain, especially when I think of the word perspective. It was like being in my bedroom and catching glimpses of it, as if I was moving around it faster than physically possible, but mostly it was the sensation of movement which I felt, that was like phase shifting or teleportation. Or put another way, like a massive slowdown of reality as I was moving through it, and reality had to catch up to me. The instant it did catch up to me was like a single momentary return to something resembling "normal" space-time, but I would immediately start to shift again. The glimpses were barely perceptible snap shots really.

So I have to laugh when I watch that scene on the rooftop in The Matrix, because it falls kind of comically short of the speed and intensity of what I experienced. It almost felt as if I was inhabiting these spaces/perspectives simultaneously too (like if you believed in "many worlds" theory, or multiverse, but were suddenly integrated with thousands of your alternate selves at once---at least the ones that were very similar to this one), but I could perceive the speed of the experience too... for whatever that's worth.


There was also this sense of raw power. as if I felt myself accelerating somehow. then suddenly i was aware of "apparent motion" and "time" but in the sense of a flip-page animation booklet. I could sense every moment as an individual animation frame, or page. And then suddenly I was accelerating beyond all comprehension. It felt almost like that Man of Steel movie moment, when superman first starts flying. And when this happened, it felt like I broke through *something*. I don't know if it was a protective astral shell, because that's when the trip starting going down a pretty scary route.

At this point I would describe it as integration of what FELT like other human intelligences (very well could have been normally splintered parts of my own mind, but I could definitely sense "others" that didn't feel like ME). And I remember I got a sense of being caught in a high dimensional rubix cube of consciousness. A tesseract I guess? But I got the sense that the other consciousnesses were inhabiting their own dimensional cubes, but somehow had been superimposed over my own. And I only had some very rudimentary connection to them. It wasn't like I had access to any actual life memories, but I had the overwhelming sense of what felt like being tapped into a "human" hive mind of sorts. Hyperspace I guess? Mind you I'm in a densely populated suburb and this was around 3am. And it was then I started getting the strong impression of the limitation of categorical (linguistic) human thought... and that this integration of consciousnesses in the "cube" space was somehow like an eternal prison. and that "the "absolute" ("the sum of all being, actual and potential",) exists without reason or purpose, for eternity. no beginning, no end... just is.

the best way I can describe it is that i had qualitatively grasped what eternity/omnipresence would be like, but only if from my own limited human perspective, which obviously made it a rather horrifying prospect conceptually, and as experience in the moment.


it was at this point i remembered when I broke through that astral shell, or whatever, from accelerating, and I suddenly connected that event to the big bang for some reason. and it was then I thought that the creation of the universe MIGHT have been "the absolute" exploding and fragmenting itself in the Big Bang to escape that eternal prison. taking refuge as "low level" forms of consciousnesses & matter, being able to experience novelty, discovery, DOUBT, SLEEP (!!!!) as a reprieve from the abject horror of an eternity all alone without reason or purpose.



From there my trip took a much, MUCH darker turn. As if being schrodinger's cat, cheshirized in a hyperspace cube matrix / hive mind wasn't quite scary enough. But I think this terrifying part of the trip is where my ego was starting to reintegrate itself perhaps, and began to manifest as personal ego distortions... except that it happened in an extremely alien way which is hard to reconcile. But, for post-trip rationalization you could say it was at this point I was bifurcated into ME and an ANTI-ME.

Although, after reading this thread (from Erik): https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=836336#post836336 << this sums up what the dark part of my trip felt like at its onset. I was first being "assaulted" with my own sense of self worth, and would get countered by the perfect cognitive foil immediately anytime I tried to justify anything about my thoughts, my self worth, my life, and any ideas I held of receiving salvation from an existential hell dimension. This portion of the trip was also heralded by the impression of 2 piercing purple eyes, very much in the form of the egregore (see: daily bestiary img search on google). Thoughts began to accelerate and language started getting a bit like jumbled and slurred, like it echoed and trailed off into the distance but in much more dynamic and multi-spatial sense than any reverberated acoustic vocalization. I guess you could call it cascading, in some sense, but with a density and power unlike any thought i've experienced beofore. And it only seemed to build upon itself until some palpable sense of weight was crushing my ego.

This presence was powerful, mostly because it had direct access to my mind... and it was not fucking around. It not only countered all my own justifications/values perfectly, but also peppered in fears/phobias I have to frighten me, working them into the deconstruction process like sudden flashes of mental imagery in an concerted effort to wear me down. And perhaps the worst part of it was the "dimensionality" of it. It was as if the internal dialogue happening were waves, perhaps due to my slowed perception of time? In which case it may be better to think of them as ripples on a pond when dropping in a stone. The major difference being that these waves were bouncing off the "edges" of something (i would guess the edges of that cube space I felt earlier -- which could maybe best be understood as the allotted space for any given human consciousness within hyperspace).

Once bounding back towards me, they became amplified and crashed into me. It felt a lot like being relentlessly pummeled in a wave pool at a water park, to some extent. I was beginning to panic uncontrollably at this point due to feeling as if I was being FORCIBLY UNMADE. Although not just being unmade, but simultaneously TRAPPED in this hyperspace with a merciless intelligence. Sometimes I wonder if it's what it may feel like to be possessed by evil.

I really can't give the experience justice through words alone, though. Because there was very much an UNMISTAKABLE, unambiguous quality to this. It was like I couldn't just make it stop if only I had focused and did some meditation work. I realize this conclusion might not be entirely accurate in retrospect as I was in a bit of a trance like state (deer in headlights effect), and perhaps something as simple as altering my brain wave pattern could've interrupted the process... but being so engaged, it was as if there was no space to retreat to and collect myself.


But to recap, the beginning part of the trip was the single most profound and AWESOME experience of my life. HANDS DOWN. NO QUESTION. I do mean AWESOME too. The reason I bring it up, is because the assault that happened to me was like taking that awesome, positive experience and desecrating it because I either did something wrong or caught the attention of something powerful out in hyperspace. So now instead of BEING the source, it felt as if some intelligence took control of that power I had and beat me up with it. the bullet time mode and acceleration was now being used to rag doll my consciousness. It felt as if time had been stretched out too, so I experienced longs periods of time within seconds. Sending what felt like my head into that bullet time mode over and over and over again. But this time the acceleration and dimensionality of it was unbearable, relentless and seem to go on and on with very few moments of reprieve, like being toyed with. There was also this never-ending gibberish I was hearing too... like a speaking in tongues, but it sounded more digital and warbled a bit as if it wasn't actually a (real) voice, but more the artifice of one. So it wasn't "saying" anything that made any sense, nor did it sound like language. Yet on the other hand it didn't sound like a simple waveform either, as if it was much too dynamic and complex in range. Probably the most unsettling aspect of it was that the pitch, tonality, and cadence was just as fast and relentless as the quasi-physical assault I felt. In fact, it seemed to coincide with the ramping up of intensity, so that it was basically just the audible embodiment of all the other sensations hitting me. Which seem to make the experience feel all the more chaotic and absurd, like falling into an abyss of hyperspatial madness. (check out I Broke My Robot's "tomorrow does not exist" if you want an approximation)


From a physical standpoint, if you can imagine what it'd be like to endure that spinning you feel from being way too drunk, but occurring during a very extreme/difficult PCP trip, then you've reached the tip of the iceberg. Might be thinking to yourself that I'm being hyperbolic too. I'M NOT. Just try to understand that I'm working with a woefully inadequate tool kit attempting to express what it felt like. Perhaps the craziest aspect was despite the experience not being actually physical, it FELT physical. Physical in the sense that I couldn't distinguish any difference between my physical body and an astral projection of it (for lack of a better term). So everything that was happening was occurring to me but there was no distinction between just consciousness and physical sensation? It actually felt as if my physical body was experiencing it... except if that had actually been the case it would've been liquified. So perhaps it's most accurate to say it was not unlike a schizophrenic episode, experiencing tactile hallucinations, except to what I would consider the nth degree.

I can't exactly call the experience pain per se, at least not in the sense of a physical body sending localized nerve impulses to the brain. But indeed at the peak of my attack my head felt a sensation that can best be described as if it was exploding open, except it was happening countless times in absurdly rapid succession, and each explosion had a directionality (or vector) to it. And part of the difficulty of the experience is that I actually felt the inertial acceleration throughout my being no different than if I were on some extreme thrill park ride, except there was no perceptible g-force as if I had little to no mass, nor weight. This itself seems incongruent, but I suppose think of the sensation of falling in a dream. It's real to the mind is felt in the abdominal region, but it's not a physical force from a materialist perspective. The scene from the movie Beetlejuice where Keaton's head is spinning, is somewhat accurate visual approximation of the sensation, except instead imagine your head is moving so fast in a few dozen different directions each second not unlike the bullet time mode I experienced from before, but this time with a relentlessly manic and helpless feeling. And each of those vectors felt like a little neutron bomb going off inside my head, as if each change in direction were a collision of sorts. Now give some thought to the idea that something else is in complete control of this experience and you cannot do a damn thing about it.


Beyond the quasi-physical manifestation during the peak attack, there was also an uncontrollable terror that accompanied. As if my limbic system was under complete control of a directed external force/presensce. Terror, panic, adrenaline, dizziness, disorientation, acceleration... these all felt as if they were sent into overdrive, many orders of magnitude higher than I have ever felt. These also seemed to correspond to the directionality of the physical assault and the auditory chaos I endured too. As if these were all working in concert to make the experience that much more intense. And it wasn't just that these psychosomatic responses were sent into overdrive, but the overall vibe of this ordeal had an unmistakably ordered, and malicious (again, for lack of a better term) intent behind it. And although rather abstract and difficult to convey, the sensation of an unknown force, whether itself a "collective" or just one massively powerful intelligence (I could perceive it as both aspects), was so completely and wholly understood/felt. In retrospective contemplation, I have to call it a subjective experience, but utterly impossible to simply rebuke or rationalize in the throes of such a completely enmeshed and engaging experience. And this is where describing "dark entity" contact in hyperspace originates for those of us who put it in our reports, or at least for me. A sensation and qualitative experience that feels separate and ordered, and makes itself known with some unmistakably signposts alerting you to the dangerous territory you're now mired in. Mind you, this is coming from someone who has a rather firm grasp on why it makes a lot of sense to retread our hyperspace tribulations from a more skeptical perspective. Perhaps most importantly it allows for a much neater, categorically "rational" perspective for sanity's sake; to help one from spiraling into madness and self-destructive impulses in response to the post-traumatic stress of such difficult implications.

And perhaps just as important, is that there's no "proof" I can take with me as a lone psychonaut and layman w/out the know-how, instrumentation or general inclination to attempt so, provided that were even possible. Just as well I say, as I don't think many of you care for when psychonauts tread this topic anyway. I feel as if I am under no delusion in this regard either. I think precisely because of my experience I have unique insight into why it can be difficult to wrestle with cognitively for a lot of people whose metaphysical outlook has a vested interest in the end game of earthly samsara (or suffering). If there's a hyperspatial samsara, and it's in the "further regions of experience", where any and all sensations are at infinite orders of magnitude higher than those of your daily life, and they can all hit you simultaneously and overwhelm you to the point of unending dissolution and reconstitution like some sort of angelic crucible... would you then be screaming "holy holy holy" looking at the true nature of things? Frightening enough prospect in contemplation. Or perhaps it's just some very unique sort of half state experience of local realism combined with nonlocality. I leave that contemplation for the truly deep thinkers and those with formal education.

To be completely upfront about this, I'm truly amazed I didn't end up having a stroke and/or heart attack from this experience. I was 40 years old at the time of my trip and probably the most unfit I've ever been.

...At this point, I feel I MUST explain a little further, as I've remembered a bit more detail...
Before I wrap up this "attack" narrative that I'm sharing, I have to add just a tad more detail that my psyche has tried to bury. And it's what this preface addendum is all about. Experiencing disembodied entities that cause major distress, for whatever purpose. I.E. DARK INTELLIGENCES inhabiting hyperspace.

So, I just remembered what could arguably be the worst aspect of the experience. Something was RESPONDING to my thoughts. And I don't mean the initial deconstruction of the ego part, where my self worth was being whittled down in a quasi-linguistic, hyperspatial dialectic. I'm talking about the physical part of the attack. So... once I began to acknowledge that I was no longer able to maintain even the smallest semblance of control in how my trip was unfolding, was when the experience began to "reveal itself" and make it painfully apparent that I was in commune with some type of intelligence. It responded to my thoughts in what could best be described as telepathy, except no longer linguistically based. Instead, these responses took form as projections of mental imagery, and physical sensations of course. By physical, again, I mean like a direct control of the limbic system, with heightened psychosomatic impulses which had no corresponding "real world" stimulus. And they were all along what most would consider the negative end of the spectrum, i.e. adrenaline spikes, being lost in delirium, feeling a disorientation as if in a vacuum, nervousness, wariness, along with emotional states like dread, panic, paranoia, etc.

And it was as if these bodily and emotional states were nothing more than dials on an electronic control panel. And the dials were being tweaked from a baseline all the way up to 9-10 as a form of response to my thoughts in any given moment. And it felt as if I had even gone past 10 on the dial at points. In which case, my only conclusions are it's either that my life thus far has lacked the qualitative experience of 10, and those are levels people rarely encounter... or hyperspace is a "real" place where this becomes possible; hence the moniker. Perhaps a third possibility not unlike "I have no mouth and I must scream".


Anyway, I can't quite remember every exact detail of what this intelligence did, other than ramping up the intensity of what I already described in the trip report. But I do remember receiving the mental projection of an insane asylum. Like how institutionalized patients, believed to be a physical threat to themselves/others, are locked in padded, square rooms with restraints on. The telepathic projection played on this theme as foundation to inform me about the particular hyperspace I was tuned into... which was that of a small, self-contained pocket intended as imprisonment for a targeted consciousness. And by imprisonment I mean in the sense that there would be no ability to hide or escape this intelligence's reach. Inside this "tetracube", being literally driven to madness, and tortured in the above stated manner without reprieve. And it was like once I "understood" that this was a type of disembodied intelligence, as in having all doubt removed, is when the situation turned into what's described as a "positive feedback loop". What was even more terrifying is I started to get the sense that this feedback loop just continues on, gaining momentum and expanding into higher "dimensions" (for lack of a better term), with increasing speed and density, perhaps until it reaches critical mass? THAT was actually the point at which I was screaming uncontrollably, because that feedback loop was happening to me making the intensity of the experience rise exponentially. And it truly felt like I was coming close to crossing a point of no return, in so much as my measly little monkey brain could no longer contain what was happening to me. For all I knew of what was going on, my human life was reaching (or had reached) its end, and my consciousness would either continue on in suffering like this for eternity, or be completely ripped apart... gone supernova, whatever. Actually, it felt like both could be possible at the same time.

Shocked


From that moment, at the peak of my assault, was the point at which I was screaming uncontrollably at the top of my lungs, as I was so fully enmeshed in this experience that nothing else existed for me. Even though under any other circumstance, under the influence of any other (combination of) substance(s), I've always been able to control myself. Keeping some semblance of myself grounded in the reality of my situation knowing there were people sleeping not far off, or neighbors who might hear me and call the police thinking there was some manner of violent crime afoot. Basically using doubt, or skepticism, as an escape from unambiguous knowing. This incident was so completely beyond any and ALL of that... for me palpable, utterly real, unequivocal. So much so that essentially I could no longer comprehend my normal waking life. My tiny, insignificant consciousness simply had no more space or awareness to process anything else other than the brutality of what I was enduring. It was such a massive and wholly engrossing event, unlike anything that's happened to me ever (on shrooms, lsd, salvia, dmt, sex, NDE, car accident, et al). I would imagine even being abducted by aliens might seem somewhat tame by comparison, despite how paradigm shattering THAT would be.

So in conclusion, I have to say that much like the beginning of my trip, this attack was, contrarily, the single most profoundly HORRIFYING experience of my life. So when others in the forum bring up the topic of dark entities, I would suggest not to necessarily dismiss it offhand. As I have no explanation for how this experience happened, or how it could just be MY OWN MIND doing this to me. I spent a very, VERY long time in what I perceived to be a tetracube prison being slammed, spun, accelerated, swallowed in the gaze of infinite absurdity, and almost as if having the physical sensation of my mind being blown apart and rematerialized relentlessly, like being forcibly sent into bullet time mode but with a completely malicious force exerting its power over it, and my utter helplessness to do a damn thing about it. whether its goal was to feed on my suffering, to "hyperslap" me, or punish me for transgressions committed in my lifetime, I can't say. The "why" of it was not at all forthcoming, leaving me with only speculation. And it truly frightens me to the core of my being to think there is some type of presence existing somewhere "out there" which has dominion over us lesser (human) beings to chew up and spit out. Or worse yet that this could be someone's ultimate fate when they die, like the hell spoken about in some religious dogma. And all for doing nothing more than making the wrong moves in some fucked up cosmic game in which we exist momentarily on a material plane, for which we have no memory of having agreed to play, and the rules aren't known to us without a shadow of a doubt. It just seems too preposterous to wrap my head around.

And that has been my ultimate, lingering fear from the trip. That at the time of my experience, after my "sitter" came in and basically saved me, that this was some new reality that I had awakened to in which I could exist, somehow by choice, but paradoxically without knowing so. Or rather, perhaps, it was some reality that I had existed in at one point, and this material life was my lone reprieve. The function of coming into it without memory, by some ass backward logic, was a gift of MERCY. And I remember thinking to myself if life on earth with all its suffering is the alternative, then put me back to fucking sleep NOW (reset me in the matrix so to speak)... and bless my shitty little life with all its insignificance and inconsequential tribulations! Oh blessed be, let me live amidst all the animals on earth, human or otherwise, where at least I can grasp what the basic rules are, and remain relatively safe working under the guise of freewill. Where I can calculate the risks of any given situation, to SOME degree, based on my ability to gather knowledge and work within systems like probability and such. But I think I've been able to integrate these lessons as unresolved trauma stored as unconscious memory, with the help of some non-dualist philosophy and integrating this with theories of Chris Fuchs or Thomas Campbell. I think I've been able to move past this anthropocentric dichotomy on my spiritual evolution. It's only taken 3 years to integrate though!

In closing, if there was at least one positive thing that came as a result of this experience, I'd say it's that I've completely changed my attitude about doing harm in the world, however inconsequential it may seem from my perspective. What I'm saying is I never want to harm or cause suffering to another creature for as long as I live, on ANY level. As an example, I used to see house centipedes in my home's basement and I'd smack them with my slippers. They were just so fast, creepy and I remember reading that their bite is fairly painful if encountered. Also near impossible to catch and release, so I'd always be startled and wee bit vexed anytime I spotted them as I didn't want these things sneaking up on me while in the bathtub or whatever. BUT NO LONGER. I mean, I'm no longer squashing them, nor do I feel remotely the same way. "Bugs" just don't hold the same kneejerk reactionary response of repulsion or irrational "creepiness" as they once did. I've come to realize that, in some sense, I was the one who got flattened by some enormous being's slipper that night, to use a metaphor.

And it's dawned on me, that whether it's the centipede, the rat, the fly, the cockroach,etc... none of these creatures can help what they are. They follow their instinctive programming, what their genetic makeup predisposes the limits of their nature to be. In that sense, life does seem like a unique sacrament in this surreal cosmic experiment we appear caught up in. If anything, material life, with its precarious nature, now seems to paradoxically hold both my respect and pity simultaneously, in all its forms.
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ZbodyconsciousNEW.png (2,590kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
 

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Bisy
#2 Posted : 5/8/2021 8:19:07 PM

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that was a very enjoyable read, very intelligent and well articulated. thx for sharing.. how did you sit on a vile of dmt salts for so long? if youve got the courage and curiosity to iv a heroic dose, one would think you would figurate out how to convert it to freebase and try that first.. ive iv'd it before, but im thinking i would want to smoke it first.
Everything i say is fictional, I just wanna be cool and fit in.
 
Exitwound
#3 Posted : 5/8/2021 8:31:28 PM

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Welcome and wow, what a trip! Shocked

This is certainly an interesting topic for me and I have previously read the thread you referenced, following my own experiences - I can relate to a lot said in that particular thread.

I think these "annoying alien intelligences" are part of our shared BIOS (collective subconsciousness?), hence the direct access to thoughts and fears, but while in altered state we can give imagination too much power over ourselves if we lack power of will/focus.

Wondering how this trip has affected your use of psychedelics? Did you have any flashbacks to this trip since then?

@Bisy - I think OP referenced DPT, not DMT



 
dvc777
#4 Posted : 5/8/2021 8:57:30 PM
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I find the thing you said about the big bang interesting. I would also think that the unfolding of being in space and time can be interpreted as an escape from the hellish "oneness" of everything.
the stuff about emotion and thought being blown up and overtaking the position of the senses also rang a bell.
 
necromanteum
#5 Posted : 5/8/2021 9:39:33 PM

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Bisy wrote:
that was a very enjoyable read, very intelligent and well articulated. thx for sharing.. how did you sit on a vile of dmt salts for so long? if youve got the courage and curiosity to iv a heroic dose, one would think you would figurate out how to convert it to freebase and try that first.. ive iv'd it before, but im thinking i would want to smoke it first.


thank you. i've got exp with IV, and am fairly comfortable with it. also I don't smoke/vape at all. the IV route makes sense for me, but perhaps I overdid things just a bit lol. I definitely wanted that breakthrough experience, and it certainly felt that way the first 10-15 mins.

i snorted the dpt in the past (50mg), however, with not so great results. I had also IV'd about 40mg and had a rather mild experience. just some red tinge to my sight, and green tribal patterns overlapping the walls. not much beyond that, besides some mild body sensation (air molecules feeling rather heavy, slight stomach butterflies, nothing major).



Exitwound wrote:
Welcome and wow, what a trip! Shocked

This is certainly an interesting topic for me and I have previously read the thread you referenced, following my own experiences - I can relate to a lot said in that particular thread.

I think these "annoying alien intelligences" are part of our shared BIOS (collective subconsciousness?), hence the direct access to thoughts and fears, but while in altered state we can give imagination too much power over ourselves if we lack power of will/focus.

Wondering how this trip has affected your use of psychedelics? Did you have any flashbacks to this trip since then?


thanks!

that does make some sense to me, the bios thing... as from what i understand describes what egregores are. to be honest with you, i think the last time i read or thought about egregores was like 15 years ago. so the fact that I saw this in my mind's eye, seems strangely coincidental. it'a a concept i came across maybe once or twice in my life and never given much thought to. so my mind using that concept to create some hallucinogenic narrative seems unlikely to me. but i'll admit the possibility.


dvc777 wrote:
I find the thing you said about the big bang interesting. I would also think that the unfolding of being in space and time can be interpreted as an escape from the hellish "oneness" of everything.
the stuff about emotion and thought being blown up and overtaking the position of the senses also rang a bell.


appreciate you taking the time to read. yeah, just one of those things that occurred to me during the trip.
 
Bisy
#6 Posted : 5/8/2021 10:24:22 PM

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hehe, just when i thought i finally knew everything, dpt saves the day.....Confused i never heard of it, i thought the mistake was in the post...
Everything i say is fictional, I just wanna be cool and fit in.
 
ChristianMeteor
#7 Posted : 6/9/2021 8:05:10 PM

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I find your description of hell being void of "privacy and consent" quite interesting, and disturbingly inline with conspiracies of mass surveillance and absolute power of an elitist class-but this is not the place for such things.

I would think, likening psychedelics to dissolvers of boundaries to the hyper dimensional, you tapped into a particularly bizarre branch of infinity. The vastness of this place you describe is one of the most interesting parts-like the awe of standing before the ocean. So unfathomably large that the sense of self is almost lost, but at the very same time the realization of "us" being "everything" is awe inspiring in the sheer amount of creation that we are infact capable of.
 
necromanteum
#8 Posted : 12/24/2021 2:02:50 PM

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ChristianMeteor wrote:
I find your description of hell being void of "privacy and consent" quite interesting, and disturbingly inline with conspiracies of mass surveillance and absolute power of an elitist class-but this is not the place for such things.



I find your response quite interesting as well. In particular, when my trip took a turn for the worse, I got the mental impression/image of two purple eyes. Not sure why I "knew" that these were egregores because it's not a concept I was familiar with. In fact, I never gave much thought about it after reading some brief info on them many, MANY years ago (15 or more)... but I'll tell you it felt like KNOWING. Unflinching, steadfast, unequivocal KNOWING. And I'm not talking about convincing myself, or coming to terms with a position through some conciliatory internal dialog. And there also felt like an unbelievable power in that type of KNOWING. It's difficult to explain, as i felt ascended in some sense (again, like Neo from the end of the Matrix original film, after he "dies"Pleased. But, that's probably a conversation for another day/thread/etc.

Where I find your response particularly interesting is in it sparking a bit of suspicious contemplation about those "global elite" types we hear about. The ones who allegedly partake in rituals at their Bohemian Grove facility. I know the notion itself is pretty OUT THERE for a lot of people... myself included, to some extent. But your response made me wonder if these so-called egregores might've been something cooked up by these elite types to keep us rank & file in line. Was this at all what you were hinting at? If not, no worries.


 
necromanteum
#9 Posted : 3/2/2022 1:45:19 PM

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BUMP UP, after adding preface. I hope people read my trip report
 
Camalonga
#10 Posted : 3/16/2022 1:45:40 AM
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This is one epic trip report, just reading your experience feels like my existence will never be the same. I went to an unimaginably terrible place with iboga once, and the next day entered the most unimaginably beautiful and blissful place. This wasn't hyperdimensional though, it was all in 3D. I smoked bufo and can't consciously remember what happened but I know it was something beyond bad. Like going beyond an event horizon but an unimaginably terrible one. Maybe compassion is something so valuable, it comes at a terrible price, but a price worth paying.
 
necromanteum
#11 Posted : 3/18/2022 6:46:52 PM

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alchemizt wrote:
This is one epic trip report, just reading your experience feels like my existence will never be the same. I went to an unimaginably terrible place with iboga once, and the next day entered the most unimaginably beautiful and blissful place. This wasn't hyperdimensional though, it was all in 3D. I smoked bufo and can't consciously remember what happened but I know it was something beyond bad. Like going beyond an event horizon but an unimaginably terrible one. Maybe compassion is something so valuable, it comes at a terrible price, but a price worth paying.



Yes, I know what you mean when it comes to the compassion part. I feel like another major question I have lingering is, "why would things like what I experienced NEED to exist? To torture sad little monkey meat sacks like myself who are nearing absolute ZERO grasp of what is actually going on out there?"

It's actually quite sad. If these things exist only for torture and have no purpose other than to spank consciousness down, then perhaps they should be stopped? But I've come to the conclusion that if the "source power" part of my trip is ultimately what is in store for me, as an ascended being farther down my "soul timeline"... would I be called on to stamp out malignant forces like this? << Re-reading this, I realize how ridiculously "new age" it sounds... so much so, that I imagine Caroline Cory reading this for an 'Ancient Aliens' clip on the History channel! Laughing All kidding aside, though... I don't want to harm ANYONE, or ANYTHING; no matter how insignificant or inconsequential the act or being may seem from my perspective. As if my perspective or experiences hold anymore significance than that of the fleas'... the ones pestering the neighbor's dog, that is. And YES, there is the conundrum. Or as you so eloquently put, "compassion is something so valuable, that the price it comes at is too terrible to comprehend." (my own little paraphrasing, of course).


Anyway, I'd like to hear more details about your trip. Did you write it down anywhere on the forum? And, just wanted to say thanks for responding. I was very curious to hear people's responses after i updated the trip from PG to R rated. Laughing
 
ShadedSelf
#12 Posted : 3/18/2022 8:17:04 PM

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All that sounds really scary, and Im glad that you seem to have taken some positive outcomes out of such an intense experience.

As I understand it counsciosness is fragmented to create both experience and individual selves, the latter can then choose to polarize either negatively or positively in their seemingly endless journey towards eventual reunion with everything else.
So yeah, what you expecienced was probably quite real, and perhaps someones choice as to how to treat you.

It reminds me of an abusive parent. Why would anyone mistreat their child?
And if you want to rationalize it, I would say because thats how they treat themselves.
Because they are just that starved of love, that separated from Source.

It kinda sucks the amount of suffereing that we opened ourselves to in making that a possibility, honestly, Ive no way to rationalize it, it can just be profoundly terrifying and soul shattering.

That being said, at the end of the day, those that did that to you are... you.
Thats why you will hear about compassion and forgiveness, compassion for self and other-selves, forgivenes of self and other-selves, at some point we become the love that embraces all, we become the light that illuminates all, no shadows, no others, not even self, just All.


My 2 cents.
 
Camalonga
#13 Posted : 3/20/2022 8:40:34 PM
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necromanteum wrote:
alchemizt wrote:
This is one epic trip report, just reading your experience feels like my existence will never be the same. I went to an unimaginably terrible place with iboga once, and the next day entered the most unimaginably beautiful and blissful place. This wasn't hyperdimensional though, it was all in 3D. I smoked bufo and can't consciously remember what happened but I know it was something beyond bad. Like going beyond an event horizon but an unimaginably terrible one. Maybe compassion is something so valuable, it comes at a terrible price, but a price worth paying.



Yes, I know what you mean when it comes to the compassion part. I feel like another major question I have lingering is, "why would things like what I experienced NEED to exist? To torture sad little monkey meat sacks like myself who are nearing absolute ZERO grasp of what is actually going on out there?"

It's actually quite sad. If these things exist only for torture and have no purpose other than to spank consciousness down, then perhaps they should be stopped? But I've come to the conclusion that if the "source power" part of my trip is ultimately what is in store for me, as an ascended being farther down my "soul timeline"... would I be called on to stamp out malignant forces like this? << Re-reading this, I realize how ridiculously "new age" it sounds... so much so, that I imagine Caroline Cory reading this for an 'Ancient Aliens' clip on the History channel! Laughing All kidding aside, though... I don't want to harm ANYONE, or ANYTHING; no matter how insignificant or inconsequential the act or being may seem from my perspective. As if my perspective or experiences hold anymore significance than that of the fleas'... the ones pestering the neighbor's dog, that is. And YES, there is the conundrum. Or as you so eloquently put, "compassion is something so valuable, that the price it comes at is too terrible to comprehend." (my own little paraphrasing, of course).


Anyway, I'd like to hear more details about your trip. Did you write it down anywhere on the forum? And, just wanted to say thanks for responding. I was very curious to hear people's responses after i updated the trip from PG to R rated. Laughing

Just that they exist creates the opportunity to deepen existence, the bad makes the good all the more good. An example would be in world war two lots of people risked their lives to hide jews from the nazis, without the nazis there wouldn't have been this opportunity to express good in such a deep and heroic way. You see that under pressure, the heart can express itself in deeply beautiful ways. A lot of people are unaware that malignant forces exist on the level you experienced it, and you see that this unawareness means that they are lacking a depth in which goodness can be expressed. The way you can't hurt sentient beings after this experience, that's an aspect of your compassion being deepened by what you experienced. You have a kind of understanding and wisdom that comes through experience.

The iboga trip I mentioned, what happened was I was seeing in brutal detail this matrix constructed by hyperdimensional malignant entities that enslaved humanity to feed on our suffering, not just humanity, all the animals and other sentient beings were trapped in this matrix and I could see this is real and its the structure behind all the bad in the world. I could see deep into it how it actually works on some level, so this gave me the opportunity to try and take it down. I spent a long, long time battling against it, trying to subvert it in any way I could but I was only making a tiny dent in it, it was so intricately designed and had a backup mechanism to counter everything I did. There was despair growing in me and it seemed more and then came a point where I was realized it was hopeless and I got sucked into and trapped in the lowest, darkest part of it which was like a torture chamber. After the "trip" ended, it was only really getting started for me, I went into psychosis and didn't sleep for 3 days. Eventually when the ceremony officially ended, the psychosis mysteriously disappeared and there was a deep sense of peace within. I left the house where we did the ceremony and that night while I was on my own, something happened. This feeling of love and compassion appeared and was gradually intensifying until a point where this female spirit appeared and merged with my soul and I became both male and female, I became whole. I entered a state of spiritual bliss. I entered "heaven". The feeling was like the polar opposite of this evil sadistic matrix, within me was a force of compassion so immense I spent hours crying because I couldn't have even comprehended that good will so immense can exist. My bodies vibrating writing this, like inverted goosebumps. I was in this state of spiritual bliss for a week after this. Life is mysterious beyond anything I can comprehend.


EDIT: Sorry, I just realized there it was the bufo trip you asked me to describe, not the iboga trip. I'm not sure I can describe this bufo trip, I cant consciously remember much of it, I just remember being in a place of the most immense existential terror I couldn't have ever comprehended exists. Like I'd gone beyond and event horizon into unimagineable horrors. There were malignant entities involved, that was the most terrible part of iy. I started to get flashbacks of parts I couldn't remember in my dreams after this, they involved infinity and death. Like when you look at infinity, up and down become merged into one and this is something beyond the minds ability to comprehend. I kept experiencing death in my sleep and waking up alive and being completely unable to comprehend that I'm actually alive. You know when you KNOW something, beyond any shred of doubt. I've been in this place where I know I'm Dead and I know my existence has come to and end and yet I wake up alive and existence is still here existing.
 
necromanteum
#14 Posted : 3/30/2022 10:18:36 PM

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ShadedSelf wrote:
All that sounds really scary, and Im glad that you seem to have taken some positive outcomes out of such an intense experience.

As I understand it counsciosness is fragmented to create both experience and individual selves, the latter can then choose to polarize either negatively or positively in their seemingly endless journey towards eventual reunion with everything else.
So yeah, what you expecienced was probably quite real, and perhaps someones choice as to how to treat you.


I agree about experience, individual selves and such, and how this satisfies the question, on a basic level, of why we are here. A material plane (physical matter) seems to be a really ODD choice though, considering the precariousness of it... and how conscious beings (with self identities) are basically ground up in it with the passage of time and machinations of the universe (physical processes at various scales).


Quote:
It reminds me of an abusive parent. Why would anyone mistreat their child?
And if you want to rationalize it, I would say because thats how they treat themselves.
Because they are just that starved of love, that separated from Source.

It kinda sucks the amount of suffereing that we opened ourselves to in making that a possibility, honestly, Ive no way to rationalize it, it can just be profoundly terrifying and soul shattering.


It is shattering to some degree, yes. Which reminds me I had forgot to mention in the preface that the quasi-physical experience of the attack felt as if my consciousness was being nearly ripped apart. Of the earlier, positive experience, I had some measure of control even though it was somewhat of an "auto pilot" ride, where I felt powerful and unstoppable. The attack segment was like the exact opposite; I had NO control whatsoever and felt incredibly small.

Quote:
That being said, at the end of the day, those that did that to you are... you.
Thats why you will hear about compassion and forgiveness, compassion for self and other-selves, forgivenes of self and other-selves, at some point we become the love that embraces all, we become the light that illuminates all, no shadows, no others, not even self, just All.


The thing that bothers me about it is _I_ was able to come away with some measure of positivity and compassion. But I can't say that would necessarily be everyone else's experience. It might drive some mad, or maybe cause them to commit suicide, or fall into a deep pit of despair, etc. etc. I feel lucky in all honesty, but am not without some measure of scarring (PTSD, no flippancy in using that terminology either).
 
necromanteum
#15 Posted : 3/30/2022 10:55:28 PM

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alchemizt wrote:
Just that they exist creates the opportunity to deepen existence, the bad makes the good all the more good. An example would be in world war two lots of people risked their lives to hide jews from the nazis, without the nazis there wouldn't have been this opportunity to express good in such a deep and heroic way. You see that under pressure, the heart can express itself in deeply beautiful ways. A lot of people are unaware that malignant forces exist on the level you experienced it, and you see that this unawareness means that they are lacking a depth in which goodness can be expressed. The way you can't hurt sentient beings after this experience, that's an aspect of your compassion being deepened by what you experienced. You have a kind of understanding and wisdom that comes through experience.


I agree with this perspective actually, but again... my only problem is that not everyone may come away with anything positive for having such an experience. It's caused me somewhat of post-traumatic stress, afaic. And that I can take away some measure of positivity and compassion feels like an extremely FORTUNATE outcome. Where I would expect the average person might be completely disabled by going through what I experienced. In other words, I've been able to "put the cat back in the bag" to some degree... and get a handle on it. Again, I only say this because I feel my words do little justice to provide the qualitative nature of what I went through. Or, perhaps I'm just particularly sensitive and making much too big a deal of it. Again, a matter of perspective. But I imagine it shattering your every day folk's worldview utterly apart if they were to go through it.


Quote:
The iboga trip I mentioned, what happened was I was seeing in brutal detail this matrix constructed by hyperdimensional malignant entities that enslaved humanity to feed on our suffering, not just humanity, all the animals and other sentient beings were trapped in this matrix and I could see this is real and its the structure behind all the bad in the world. I could see deep into it how it actually works on some level, so this gave me the opportunity to try and take it down. I spent a long, long time battling against it, trying to subvert it in any way I could but I was only making a tiny dent in it, it was so intricately designed and had a backup mechanism to counter everything I did. There was despair growing in me and it seemed more and then came a point where I was realized it was hopeless and I got sucked into and trapped in the lowest, darkest part of it which was like a torture chamber. After the "trip" ended, it was only really getting started for me, I went into psychosis and didn't sleep for 3 days. Eventually when the ceremony officially ended, the psychosis mysteriously disappeared and there was a deep sense of peace within. I left the house where we did the ceremony and that night while I was on my own, something happened. This feeling of love and compassion appeared and was gradually intensifying until a point where this female spirit appeared and merged with my soul and I became both male and female, I became whole. I entered a state of spiritual bliss. I entered "heaven". The feeling was like the polar opposite of this evil sadistic matrix, within me was a force of compassion so immense I spent hours crying because I couldn't have even comprehended that good will so immense can exist. My bodies vibrating writing this, like inverted goosebumps. I was in this state of spiritual bliss for a week after this. Life is mysterious beyond anything I can comprehend.


Thanks for sharing that. This is more or less what I believe about the nature of our existence, myself. And I suppose it aligns with the Gnostic perspective, though I only have very basic knowledge of it as a whole faith, let alone whatever sects or denominations there may be.

And I can't lie... I gotta say I'm a bit jealous of this "heaven" post-trip experience you had. Sounds fairly worth the trouble you had to go through to receive, but of course that's just my perspective looking outside in, and from the available report I have to go on. As I know in attempting to express my trip in detail... a text report over the internet (recalling from MEMORY, mind you) is a far FAR cry from the actuality of the experience.

Quote:

EDIT: Sorry, I just realized there it was the bufo trip you asked me to describe, not the iboga trip. I'm not sure I can describe this bufo trip, I cant consciously remember much of it, I just remember being in a place of the most immense existential terror I couldn't have ever comprehended exists. Like I'd gone beyond and event horizon into unimagineable horrors. There were malignant entities involved, that was the most terrible part of iy. I started to get flashbacks of parts I couldn't remember in my dreams after this, they involved infinity and death. Like when you look at infinity, up and down become merged into one and this is something beyond the minds ability to comprehend. I kept experiencing death in my sleep and waking up alive and being completely unable to comprehend that I'm actually alive. You know when you KNOW something, beyond any shred of doubt. I've been in this place where I know I'm Dead and I know my existence has come to and end and yet I wake up alive and existence is still here existing.



Yipes! I gotta admit this is a pretty scary concept to me. It reminds me that during my attack I was entertaining the idea that I had awakened to a meta layer of reality that couldn't be closed. So not necessarily that I was dead, but for all intents and purpose my "normal" life WAS (i.e. consensus reality). For all I knew at the time, nothing else was existing at that moment, which is why at 3am in the morning I was screaming at the top of my lungs uncontrollably. It's something I would never do due to my living situation. But I'm sure you can imagine that I was actually shocked when one of the persons I live with came running into the room to help me, or see what was happening.

It was at that point I finally was able to visibly take in my surroundings again, and notice how distorted my vision had become, as the person in my bedroom now looked like a demon of some sort. It was as if their face was sort of polarized from the center... like if their eyes tilted 45 degrees sliding inward, so that the entire eye and surrounding orbit got smaller and lower on the insides, and then larger and higher towards the outsides. And where their eyebrows would normally be were now a set of 4-6 smaller eyes following the contour of the orbit. Hair was frizzy and looked sorta aflame, like one of those little troll dolls. And this was only further impressed upon me when they started praying for me, which seemed more blasphemous and in a mocking manner than anything.

But anyway, yeah.. the trip was so cerebral that visible distortions were not even catching my attention for most of the ride. Pure intensity, and I know from how you describe "KNOWING something, beyond any shred of doubt", that our experiences overlap to some small degree even if they manifested in a very different manner. I'm glad you shared it though, as I think these difficult or even "BAD" trip reports are of the most interesting, and potentially informative... for me at least.
 
necromanteum
#16 Posted : 5/19/2022 11:09:57 PM

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ShadedSelf wrote:
All that sounds really scary, and Im glad that you seem to have taken some positive outcomes out of such an intense experience.

As I understand it counsciosness is fragmented to create both experience and individual selves, the latter can then choose to polarize either negatively or positively in their seemingly endless journey towards eventual reunion with everything else.
So yeah, what you expecienced was probably quite real, and perhaps someones choice as to how to treat you.

It reminds me of an abusive parent. Why would anyone mistreat their child?
And if you want to rationalize it, I would say because thats how they treat themselves.
Because they are just that starved of love, that separated from Source.

It kinda sucks the amount of suffereing that we opened ourselves to in making that a possibility, honestly, Ive no way to rationalize it, it can just be profoundly terrifying and soul shattering.

That being said, at the end of the day, those that did that to you are... you.
Thats why you will hear about compassion and forgiveness, compassion for self and other-selves, forgivenes of self and other-selves, at some point we become the love that embraces all, we become the light that illuminates all, no shadows, no others, not even self, just All.


My 2 cents.



Hey. I've been trying to make sense of my experience lately. It's been about a year and it doesn't terrify me quite as much as it did. But during some d8 edible sessions recently, a lot of the feelings and memories of my trip come flooding back during the peak high. And as much as I've rationalized things, and tried to integrate the experience overall, I still can't help but get this "off limits" impression that sort of takes over my emotional and mental state.

So I guess I'm looking for some outside perspectives to help either recontextualize the experience entirely, or at least gain a more rounded understanding of it all. Given your particular response and how it seemed to resonate with some of my own metaphysical outlook, I was hoping you could weigh in again, at depth if possible. The reality is I feel like I've reached an impasse in making sense of the "why". Nor does it follow I can draw a healthy approach to the question, "what now?". Not that the possibility of closure being a fool's errand hasn't crossed my mind, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have this gnawing feeling that some measure of satisfactory interpretation eludes me.


That "off limits" feeling I mentioned had a particularly nasty air about it too (once again "fractal possession", with the whispered echoing incantations slowly propagating just a hair outside the peripheries). And the one question that I was left asking, THEE QUESTION, which seemed to cut straight through the bullshit and bring about this quaking fear of potential consciousness invasion was... "WHY DO I MANIFEST A TORMENTOR?" And I have very specific reason for using that term. For one it defines the harrowing portion of my hyperspace journey pretty well. But also, this question corresponds to a difficult stage from my early childhood (ages 3-7 y/old). Basically I suffered through a lot of senseless psychological abuse, sometimes manifested as physical, and culminating in one particularly traumatic episode where I believe I came pretty close to being drowned.

Anyway, I thought hard about sharing this... and the reason I've chosen to do so, is if we are the absolute, fragmented, experiencing this diminished material form, then i simply and can only ask "WHY DO I MANIFEST A TORMENTOR?". Both in some of the most formative years of my childhood development, and now again during the most extant psychedelic breakthrough of my life. Am I paying for some forgotten transgression of a previous life? Do I have some unpaid karmic debt? And if so, the prospect of restitution in the form of a hyperspatial samsara scares the living daylights out of me.

So there it is. I really hope SOMEONE has some perspective on this.
 
ShadedSelf
#17 Posted : 5/20/2022 12:14:19 PM

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So, the fact that you already experienced this early on in this life makes a lot of sense to me, again Im going to try to rationalize some things for you, but at the end of the day you kinda have to "feel it out" too, feel what you felt back then, both as a child and as a adult.
Let the experience be a part of you.

It kinda sounds like what you experienced a year ago was, to a certain degree, a mirror of what happened back when you were little.
Not sure if you want to go this route, but some would say that that sounds like unprocessed emotional energy coming deep down from the subconcious back to the surface of concious awarness to be processed and healed.
This concept might resonate with you.

Uncovering some of the feelings that lay burried around, and all the way to the core of this experience and find how they relate to how you felt in those most formative years of your childhood development where you were tormented, and how that reflects in your life is probably part of your way fordward.

In terms of the question, Why? Why did I create this nighmare for myself?...
The sad answer is that you didnt, one of the things that we give up once we come to our fragmented experience of the infinite is control, thus creating free will for others and for ourselves, not sure how to break this down to you man, but it is not your fault, you are the one that was wronged.

"Am I paying for some forgotten transgression of a previous life?"
"Do I have some unpaid karmic debt?"

Who is the "I" here?
To me it sounds like you are desperately trying to find a reason to put this on yourself.
If the "I" is not at fault, then you are trully hopeless, powerless.
We do this growing up, we blame ourselves for everything, and in a sense thats a way to retain some control over the situation, to make sense of it.
Not to say that karma has nothing to do here, but rather for you to focus on what the experiences were actually like for you.

Forgiveness is the great karma erradicator, but to forgive is to acknowledge that the damage was done, its not a pretty process, and definately not an intelectual or rational one.
Personally I think that the "why did I manifest this" is still pretty valid, you are everything that exists after all, and ultimately you might also have to find some of that love and forgiveness for yourself.
Id just be very carefull and mindfull on how much blame you are putting on yourself for what others do.

Something worth considering is that unless you are ready to be both the victim and the perpretator, to love and forgive both, Id say remain partially individualized in your thinking, I dont think you deserve what was done to you, neither a year ago nor back when you were a child, sometimes its just easier to think that we do deserve this things, makes life make more sense.

I would also look into how you feel towards those who wronged you, I dont detect any anger or resentment in your words, I would expect there to be some.

On a side note and in case this makes any sense to you, to my understanding fear is basically the desire for control.



Those are my thoughts, hopefully Im not being too blunt, and hope this helps you to recontextualize or gain a more rounded understanding, take whatever resonates.
 
MAGMA17
#18 Posted : 5/20/2022 1:41:42 PM

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I interfere in the discussion mainly to thank you and sending you love. Thanks to your last post I was able to unlock memories of my childhood that I don't know how I had completely erased from my mind. While I was reading what had happened to you I had a very strong blow to the heart and suddenly I said: "holy fuck". In front of my eyes numerous flashbacks appeared: my brother choking me with his pillow, spitting into my mouth, drowning me in the sea , and many other humiliations. The difference with you is that I was more than 5 or 6, probably about double that. Someone will tell me, why you have to be thankful, you have unlocked memories that hurt. In fact my brain has eliminated them to protect me, and in this moment it is as if I had made his work useless, in a way (a precious work to which I owe so much and which I thank). But I am very grateful to you, even if this is a totally indirect effect of what you wrote. I can tell you what my emotions are about it: I don't feel anything. And this, perhaps because of my approach to life, which probably might not be shared in this forum. But my explanation is this: we are animals, and there are universal behaviors, wills, instincts in common for all animals, and in common with that specific breed. And in this case, in common to the sex of that specific breed. The body of the crime in this case is "male domination". What happened to both of you, me and you, was undergoing the domination instinct of one human being male towards another human being male. As we were smaller at that time, we were very palatable prey for the larger specimens that needed to raise their sense of power. We were easy prey, children, but still males, and therefore bearers of "extra points" if dominated. It is an attitude that different animal races have, and it is specific to the male sex. Lions, dogs, monkeys do it. There are more animal breeds where it happens than those where it doesn't. Wanting to climb the rankings is normal, and it's something we all animals have in common. We humans have simply invented other methods to climb this ranking. More sophisticated methods. Who can not use violence because he is smaller than the other or because his morality would kill him, uses other means. For example, since for half of my life I was humiliated in a mean way (up to 15-16 I was very effeminate in aesthetics, clean face, more feminine than masculine beauty) I developed my own way to climb this ranking of dominance: the intellectual way. And going even more specifically: art. Mind you, I love art, it's what I live for, but I'm just being honest with myself ... what is the reason that brought me closer to it? I asked myself this question and my answer was this. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not.
So your brother didn't humiliate you because it was you, specifically you. If another sperm would have won the fateful race and a different child had been born in your family in your place, it would have been humiliated by your brother too, because your brother did not know other methods to overload others, or he had not developed a thought who tried to go beyond these instincts that cling us to the animal world (in my opinion, that of domination is an instinct that is not only part of planet earth, but that's another matter, we are here, for now). So, as the user before me said, it's not your fault and it's not your brother's fault either. This is how the world works, quite simply. There are 3 methods, summarizing: either you use the animalistic method of domination, more rude, or you use the sophisticated human method of domination, or you develop an awareness and a consciousness that take you beyond all of this, and make you detach from these instincts, eliminating from your needs that of overloading others. Your brother (in the past I hope) is part of the first category, I am part of the second category because I don't have the balls to be part of the third. Smile if I said bullshit excuse me, I have always had my own crazy looks at what is going on around me.

I am sending you so much love, and I hope you will receive so much from the living beings you will meet on your way. I hope so from the bottom of my heart.
 
Exitwound
#19 Posted : 5/23/2022 7:54:37 AM

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necromanteum wrote:

Hey. I've been trying to make sense of my experience lately. It's been about a year and it doesn't terrify me quite as much as it did. But during some d8 edible sessions recently, a lot of the feelings and memories of my trip come flooding back during the peak high. And as much as I've rationalized things, and tried to integrate the experience overall, I still can't help but get this "off limits" impression that sort of takes over my emotional and mental state.


Hey, I've been integrating my experiences for years now. Trying to find answer to similar question, why does the God has to be so cruel sometimes?
I think the answer is in our limits. We are limited creatures, God isn't. We can't comprehend the infinity and intinity by definition contains it all.
The other question is - when I have my last trip, how do I make sure I don't end up like that?
Well the only way I think is somehow learn to see through ALL of this, ALL being an illusion and dream of one true God.

Congrats on promotion btw Smile
 
necromanteum
#20 Posted : 5/24/2022 4:54:03 AM

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ShadedSelf wrote:
So, the fact that you already experienced this early on in this life makes a lot of sense to me, again Im going to try to rationalize some things for you, but at the end of the day you kinda have to "feel it out" too, feel what you felt back then, both as a child and as a adult.
Let the experience be a part of you.

It kinda sounds like what you experienced a year ago was, to a certain degree, a mirror of what happened back when you were little.
Not sure if you want to go this route, but some would say that that sounds like unprocessed emotional energy coming deep down from the subconcious back to the surface of concious awarness to be processed and healed.
This concept might resonate with you.


Yeah, I had that sort of inkling of connecting the two experiences which is partially when i mentioned it. That Samskara thing was REALLY, REALLY quite interesting. I skimmed over it, but I haven't had time to fully digest it yet. But definitely my initial impressions were a lot of heading nodding along with a surprise or two. Thanks for sharing it, I'll need to read a bit more into before I can even begin to formulate a proper opinion on it.

Quote:

In terms of the question, Why? Why did I create this nighmare for myself?...
The sad answer is that you didnt, one of the things that we give up once we come to our fragmented experience of the infinite is control, thus creating free will for others and for ourselves, not sure how to break this down to you man, but it is not your fault, you are the one that was wronged.

"Am I paying for some forgotten transgression of a previous life?"
"Do I have some unpaid karmic debt?"

Who is the "I" here?
To me it sounds like you are desperately trying to find a reason to put this on yourself.
If the "I" is not at fault, then you are trully hopeless, powerless.
We do this growing up, we blame ourselves for everything, and in a sense thats a way to retain some control over the situation, to make sense of it.
Not to say that karma has nothing to do here, but rather for you to focus on what the experiences were actually like for you.

Forgiveness is the great karma erradicator, but to forgive is to acknowledge that the damage was done, its not a pretty process, and definately not an intelectual or rational one.
Personally I think that the "why did I manifest this" is still pretty valid, you are everything that exists after all, and ultimately you might also have to find some of that love and forgiveness for yourself.
Id just be very carefull and mindfull on how much blame you are putting on yourself for what others do.


hmm. A lot to process here, which is why I didn't respond immediately. But you're right then in some sense, with everyone having their own free will... that's what we believe our "participatory consensus relativism" to be, as I like to call it. This is where things get confusing for me. The way I see it, nonduality can be approached two ways that I have a little trouble reconciling with each other. What I mean is, there's the view that the whole of the universe and all its "components" are part of THE ABSOLUTE, and that absoilute is a primary, sovereign consciousness ("god"Pleased. In that sense, it manifests in all things but in diminished and fragmented forms to experience what could be considered like a dream. Sort of like how the things we can imagine or dream only exist within OUR consciousness. In that sense our minds would be like their own small universe, and for us these dreams are often fleeting timewise, and often in their significance too. But if our thoughts/dreams experience their own "diminished" consciousness then OUR conscious perceptions would scale as infinitely LARGER for THEM. The universe maybe dreamers within dreamers, fractalized out to infinity! LOL, sorry to go off on tagent on the dream thing, but the main point is each of those diminished consciousnesses would be as valid (well among humans if you want to keep this exercise simpler), and thus their own bit of agency/god's sovereignty in "free will". In that sense it paradoxically feels that I would be both to blame but also NOT to blame for being tormented.

And that's nothing to say of "karmic debt". The karmic debt aspect I have particular trouble with as it seems rather cruel to pay for something prior to my current life without KNOWING WHY, unequivocally so... and thus being unarmed with how to move forward with it. How can I forgive MYSELF for something if I don't know if I'm even responsible for it or not? This starts to lead me down a dark path of thought that which feels a lot more like GNOSTICISM, and that life is not some type of experiment (unless you consider a corrupted one where we experience suffering for more expansive consciousnesses to feed on). And it's not like there isn't precedence for this hierarchy of the fittest, because everything in this "world" must feed on some other part of it, and thus impose its dominion over some other portion. Life, and the very expansion of the universe, seems then in the most primary sense a TRANSGRESSIVE act. The fact that this process of being consumed is painful, traumatic, and horrific for sentients is in no small manner CONCERNING too!

The alternative is the solipsistic approach. The self is the only truly knowable and verifiably valid thing i guess. un/subconscious projections of the self in a detached capacity, sort of like game NPCs. That seems to lead me down the free will argument, behavior that is predetermined via primary conditions. Probabilistic, and given enough knowledge, deterministic... suggests the grand illusion, where even the sense of "detached" self is resolved an illusion (perhaps the most persistent illusion of them all lol). The other stuff that keeps the illusion going and immersive is that feeling of disconnect, isolation and . Or aspects of consciousness like experiencing like novelty, doubt, and IN PARTICULAR i think the sense of adversarialism when your personal sovereignty is tread upon is what makes the illusion PARTICULARLY convincing. Along with general extrinsics such as "object permanence". But in this POV, there is no free-will of others and thus only _I_ am to blame for whatever happens. And that's not just to me, but whatever happens PERIOD.


Quote:

Something worth considering is that unless you are ready to be both the victim and the perpretator, to love and forgive both, Id say remain partially individualized in your thinking, I dont think you deserve what was done to you, neither a year ago nor back when you were a child, sometimes its just easier to think that we do deserve this things, makes life make more sense.

I would also look into how you feel towards those who wronged you, I dont detect any anger or resentment in your words, I would expect there to be some.
On a side note and in case this makes any sense to you, to my understanding fear is basically the desire for control.

Those are my thoughts, hopefully Im not being too blunt, and hope this helps you to recontextualize or gain a more rounded understanding, take whatever resonates.


This part about victim and perpetrator... I'm not really sure where it aligns better, with the solipsistic approach or the former. Perhaps both perspectives are equally valid. That would be tough to reconcile, and I would need to think it through if i'm going to integrate the two as a unified understanding.

As for not detecting any anger... well I wouldn't say it's not there. Just for lack of airing out a bunch of "dirty laundry" I chose ultimately to forgo major details or my personal mindset on it. But I will say that for the longest time I was upset about it. I never forgave my brother while he was alive and I think a major component to this is is I've never been able to properly address it in a constructive conversation with my family.


--In conclusion, thanks for responding. I don't think you could be too blunt if it's constructive. It's the adversarial shit intended to undermine others for the sake of humiliation, degradation, etc. that doesn't fly w/ me.
 
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