I'm a lean 138 lbs (~63 kg). The last several weeks I've been experimenting with oral pharmahuasca. On an empty stomach, 100 mg harmine FB with 30 mg DMT FB will give me a nice body high and sometimes solid CEV for 30-45 minutes. No mind warping effects but a little more thinking activity than normal (positive thoughts though). I feel there is an enhanced mindfulness with this particular dosage. So I use these effects to practice quieting my mind (like meditation). And once the visuals are done and the body high has relaxed enough so that I feel like getting out of bed, I meditate for an hour in the remaining afterglow.

Sometimes the combo doesn't give much CEV and I just enjoy mostly a body high. I appreciate this light pharmahuasca experience as something I can enjoy weekly without having to worry I'll get in over my head.

If you can extract or obtain it, try 100 mg harmine without DMT to first dial in that part of the combination. Increase in 30-50 mg increments until you're definitely getting psychedelic effects (some auditory hallucinations, a little CEV, body high). Then add in the DMT starting with 30 mg. You might also try the DMT 30 minutes after the harmine to ensure the MAO inhibition has taken effect. Recently I tried 110 mg harmine and 90 minutes later added 40 mg DMT jimjam plus an extra 70 mg harmine. Nice visuals which lasted 90-120 minutes. Again, I'm using this to meditate in the afterglow so I'm not looking for a mind warping experience. That'll come later.

Note I haven't tried ava69's oral DMT with HPBCD yet. I don't have any DMT freebase at the moment.

Here is a past post on a [Vapauasca experiance] rue tea..and smoked dmt...






Syrian Rue Tea & Smoked Spice = Nice!! Options

WSaged
#1
Posted : 7/6/2008 1:19:21 AM
QUOTE

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Senior Member

Posts: 1813
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Location: Heart of the Sun
Hey folks, I've not posted much lately but as work has finely slowed a bit, I've been feeling the calling of the infinite, once again.

So Last night,(4th of July) I wanted to go to the other side, but I only had one, rather small dose left. Probably 30mg or less. So I decided to brew up a Syrian Rue tea. This would be the first time I've mixed DMT & an MAOI and I had wanted to try it for some time now.

I drank the tea about an hour before I smoked the DMT. I was extremely mellow from the S.Rue tea and I definitely noticed the lack of nervous tension that I normally feel before a DMT experience.
I took 2 good hits & 1 smaller hit, then I laid back into the pillows that I had put out earlier as I felt the rush coming on, but it was much slower and my heart was not racing like it normally would be.
All of a sudden I was shooting through space, there was no veil, there was no transition, I was just suddenly in a different place!! It seemed 1000's of miles away. The rest of the rush was just plain unexplainable, things were just moving & changing way too fast to put into words. It seemed to last only a little longer than normal but as the "entrance" faded, It seemed to reach a plateau (I'm usually coming down by this point).
I was aware of my body again but I was still in this other realm as well. I felt like I was in a deep jungle, no kidding!! I could hear drums and low chanting, or maybe it was digerido, off in the background. I was guided by a voice who was ancient and loving and I was going in and out of visions for a good hour!! I would be somewhere, deep in a situation, with other people, or at times, totally alien landscapes and entities. Then it would just wash away, and I would be back in my body. Sometimes I would open my eyes and I would still be hallucinating heavily!! Then one of the swirling patterns in the air would begin to open into another place/time/world/vision and it would start again.

It was not out of control feeling at all.
In fact, it was wonderful!! I had wanted to spend more time in the DMT universe and as I was making the Syrian Rue tea, I talked to it, asking it to show me its world. To "open its doors to me".
I was given exactly what I asked for!!! I can still feel the loving spirit around me, the day after.

The whole experience lasted over an hour and a half!!
I think the initial flash probably lasted 10 minutes or so. Then I was in the visionary state for a good hour. When the visions were gone, I had to piss like a hoarse and it wouldn't wait. After that, I laid back down for 20 to 30 minutes with the "latticework" type OEV's still hanging in the air and I was enjoying being able to place my consciousness anywhere I wanted to in my body. Instead of my "mind" coming from my head, I was thinking from my arm, and my chest etc...
If that makes any sense.

I had slight tracers and could feel the "psychedelic-ness" in me, the rest of the night. I Slept like a log and felt great the next morning!!!

I would like to thank El KaBong for giving me the idea and inspiration to want to try this, from reading his/her posts. You were by all means correct!!! This is the way to smoke the spice!!!
Thanks!!

!!WOW!!

WS

All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of the

Thank you shroombee.

With new information on making more potent rue tea, along with the information you've provided, I plan on playing around with the harmala component before increasing DMT.

Aside from the pleasantly beautiful experience, I have have noticed an increase in cognitive performance.

I have a little under a kilo of rue seeds and have two caapu extractions nearing the end. I am curious if the concentration on harmaline in caapi is a factor in my regular changa purging...

One love

Quick report on adding THH to my pharmahuasca experiments. Everything here is oral ROA...

A couple weeks ago...

T +0:00 110 mg harmine FB dissolved in water with citric acid
T +0:45 Harmine taking effect, leading to mild body high, relaxing, some auditory hallucinations
T +1:25 "Peak" seems to be over and I feel like I can get up to add some DMT

T +1:30 70 mg harmine, 3 drops DMT acetate jimjam (~40 mg DMT)
T +2:15 Beginning to get a nice body high, eventually some entertaining CEV, some mental tripping effects like mild thought distortion
T +3:45 CEV is done, left with pleasant afterglow, a good place for mindfulness and meditation practice

---

Yesterday...

T +0:00 110 harmine FB, 60 mg THH, dissolved in water with citric acid
T +0:55 Mild body high, relaxing, THH doesn't seem to do anything noteworthy at this point

T +1:30 70 mg harmine, 3 drops DMT acetate (~40 mg DMT)
T +2:10 Start of nice body high, entertaining CEV, mild thought distortion

T +3:30 By this time the CEV is done and I'm thinking I'm coming down. But then BOOM something kicked in, perhaps the THH? Trip quickly ramps up in intensity. CEV, OEV, anxiety. I had to trip sit myself. Talking out loud to myself to stay calm... "this is just temporary, it'll be over soon, you're okay, breathe calmly, change your setting". One of those times where I'm glad I didn't take more.

This peak lasted about 35 minutes and then I came down to a more manageable level. I played piano slowly (fine motor control is impaired) for an hour to ground myself and continue letting the effects taper down. Then meditated for 90 minutes in the remaining blissful afterglow.

Anyhow... big surprise which I attribute to the THH. A little appears to go a long way with DMT. I've noticed the same with shrooms where I was surprised at the intensity of 1.5 grams shrooms preceded by 110 grams THH.

I've used a lot more with mescaline (200 mg THH). I'm wondering whether THH is particularly potent with DMT/shrooms.

I would like to see AVA69.s opinion on this lift mode thh!

AV...Could you order some lift mode THH ....try some... and give us your opinion as to what you think it is?

Just smoalked a changa blend for the first time that I made a couple months ago... (and I just now made the time to try it, smh).

The only harmala is the THH purchased from Liftmode.

Definitely effective... more electric than what I extract from caapi. But definitely held the experience open way longer. A little over 40 minutes I was up, with a small redose maybe 8 minutes in.

One love

Yes it was Liftmode THH. The intense peak did seem to come on quickly. The 70 mg harmine plus 40 mg DMT I took at T +1:30 gave me some nice CEV and body high. Once the CEV ended (at about the same time as the prior experiment 2 weeks ago) I figured I was coming down and I would be getting up soon to meditate. Then I get the unexpected peak at T +3:30 which included OEV and a lot of mind activity. A feeling of being overstimulated. The OEV was sort of a shimmering of the visual field. I don't get much OEV on any psychedelics, so this is notable.


THH definitely seems to intensify and lengthen the experience.

Voidmatrix and Shroombee..

If the lift mode is 99.9 percent pure ...that may explain why its so intense?

maybe adjusting the dose down to..[half or less].. is needed?


But still ..what gets me..is it still isnt the right color for THH?

it does warn about using it with [caution]...with psycoactive compounds!


i would love to see AVA 69,s reaction to trying this stuff...concidering he is a chemist..

If i tryed this stuff again..i would adjust the dose way down then work up slowly...

or ..MAYBE].. what needs to be reduced with this [thh] is the dmt?

Very likely. Both of my current changa blends have the same ratio of harmala to DMT. I took one medium sized hit and was a bit further along than expected... the main difference between the two blends aside from herbs infused, is that last night's blend only has THH.

One love

Cross posting in this and the other thread on HPBCD. I am very curious to know if anyone that has used HPBCD has noticed any hearing loss type issues?

In doing more research, it seems quite well documented that HPBCD is in fact toxic to humans (as well as rodents). It's an oddly specific and narrow toxicity, it kills cochlear hairs causing hearing damage.

See: Cyclodextrins and Iatrogenic Hearing Loss: New Drugs with Significant Risk.

"use of HPβCD has been linked to significant hearing loss in several species, including humans. Evidence in mice supports a rapid onset of hearing loss that is dose-dependent. Ototoxicity can occur following central or peripheral drug delivery, with either route resulting in the preferential loss of cochlear outer hair cells (OHCs) within hours of dosing. Inner hair cells and spiral ganglion cells are spared at doses that cause ~85% OHC loss; additionally, no other major organ systems appear adversely affected. Evidence from a first-to-human phase 1 clinical trial mirrors animal studies to a large extent, indicating rapid onset and involvement of OHCs. All patients in the trial experienced some permanent hearing loss, although a temporary loss of function can be observed acutely following drug delivery. The long-term impact of HPβCD use as a maintenance drug, and the mechanism(s) of ototoxicity, are unknown."

There are even some reports of hearing damage in the reviews of the HPβCD products sold on Amazon (despite said products being described as "non-toxic" ). This is potentially extremely important information for people to know before using HPβCD. Many doctors will test your hearing at an annual physical, it would be nice to know if anyone experimenting with HPBCD has had their hearing tested.

Reference:
Crumling MA, King KA, Duncan RK. Cyclodextrins and Iatrogenic Hearing Loss: New Drugs with Significant Risk. Front Cell Neurosci. 2017 Nov 8;11:355. doi: 10.3389/fncel.2017.00355. PMID: 29163061; PMCID: PMC5676048.

Hearing loss issue is also mentioned by a doctor here: https://youtu.be/_NbtT8c9sv8 and there are numerous references to this problem that come up in a google search.

Have you done any experiments with sublingual DMT and Aloe Vera Gel? This sounds like an interesting idea.

Glad to know your hearing is still fine.

Just to clarify for others reading this, the idea posted in this thread was using HPBCD with dmt for sublingual route of administration, this bypasses the GI tract entirely and goes directly into the bloodstream. HPBCD is generally considered safe to eat because it gets destroyed in the gut before it can get into your bloodstream, but those assumptions about safety do not apply to sublingual route of administration. Hearing damage in humans was observed with "doses ranging from 50 mg to 900 mg intrathecal HPβCD" (this can be found under "Human Ototoxicity". That said, we don't have a whole lot of human data yet, and these patients all had a disease that also affects hearing so there was a confounder. And furthermore, there is no data at all that I am aware of, on sublingual method of administration. Still its a bit concerning that at least one product review on amazon claims they experienced tinnitus after using the product. To quote that research paper again: "The onset of the hearing loss in humans appears to be rapid, which aligns with preclinical reports (Cronin et al., 2015; Lichtenhan et al., 2017). Some patients reported auditory symptoms (e.g., tinnitus, aural fullness) within hours of the infusion, and loss of OAE and changes in pure-tone thresholds were documented hours after administration."

[quote=GordoTEK]Have you done any experiments with sublingual DMT and Aloe Vera Gel? This sounds like an interesting idea.


Aloe vera gell [clear gel] [ speeds up skin healing and is an anti inflamatory!] is known to penetrate the skin barrier [transdermally] very well even down to the cellular level!






I have also mixed small amounts of.. huperzene A transdermally on my temples mixed in.. aloe vera gel ..for atemps at lucid dreaming... it did seem those nights my dream recall was better than normal...

I have also tryed to mix spice FB.. in aloe vera gel..
[after warming up and desolving it into the gel].. and trying it transdermally ...but it seemed the freebase wasnt penatrating my skin transdermaly ..atleast in the body spots i was using...\

[suspect molecule size and weight of Fb a posible problem?]

[need to try areas on other areas where skin is super thin]....and arterys close by...

But ive never tryed to use aloe vera gel with spice fb.. [sublingually] ..

sublingual absorbtion is much easier than transdermal absorbtion...

and its possible! [spice and aloe gel] could work sublingually...since sublingual absorbtion usually works faster and better than transdermal!


Its worth a try! ..with ...Fb..salt...or some other form of spice and aloe gel!

Aloe.... is remarkable stuff ive put aloe gel on a skin wound and within 10 minutes the wound started closing up ...and the skin healing time was speeded up !



aloe vera very safe stuff..

This Aloe vera thing seems promising. I have tons of the stuff so there's no excuse for not trying, it seems.

Yes, this I find really interesting too! I have a Aloe vera plant and will see if I can read up on how to use it internally. I've only used on my skin so far.

One thing to note with "Aloe vera" is that the ones with yellowish mucilage will have a powerful laxative/purgative effect if ingested. They're actually something like Aloe ferox rather than Aloe vera.

With HPBCD, ava69 recommends DMT freebase so the DMT is trapped inside the non-polar cone of the HPBCD. So in theory DMT salt won't work.

Wondering whether the form of DMT (FB versus salt) would matter with the aloe vera?

i believe aloe vera is mostly water ... but has a great reputation for transdermal penetration down to the celular level..


transdermal absorbtion is harder to acheve than sublingual absorbtion..thats why i think
the sublingual method has a chance of working with spice ...but the molecule density and size may cause problems?? so which is better FB...salt...any of the other types?


also take into consideration if trying it transdermally the body areas that have the thinist skin is best choice ... the list goes on...

Also a heat pad improves transdermal absorbtion..


example clear 100 percent aloe vera gel placed on your wrist will harmlessly absorb into your skin within 10 minutes or more [depending on amount of aloe]


no its drying up that fast ..its absorbing into the skin....


i think sublingual should work better... but aloe..[contains a fair amount of water] and preventing yourself from swallowing it may be a challenge

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J Pharm Pharmacol
. 2015 Jan;67(1):96-106. doi: 10.1111/jphp.12311. Epub 2014 Sep 5.
Skin permeation enhancement effects of the gel and whole-leaf materials of Aloe vera, Aloe marlothii and Aloe ferox
Lizelle T Fox 1, Minja Gerber, Jan L du Preez, Jeanetta du Plessis, Josias H Hamman
Affiliations expand
PMID: 25196486 DOI: 10.1111/jphp.12311
Abstract
Objectives: The aim of this study was to investigate the in-vitro permeation enhancement effects of the gel and whole-leaf materials of Aloe vera, Aloe marlothii and Aloe ferox using ketoprofen as a marker compound.

Methods: The permeation studies were conducted across excised female abdominal skin in Franz diffusion cells, and the delivery of ketoprofen into the stratum corneum-epidermis and epidermis-dermis layers of the skin was investigated using a tape-stripping technique.

Key findings: A. vera gel showed the highest permeation-enhancing effect on ketoprofen (enhancement ratio or ER = 2.551) when compared with the control group, followed by A. marlothii gel (ER = 1.590) and A. ferox whole-leaf material (ER = 1.520). Non-linear curve fitting calculations indicated that the drug permeation-enhancing effect of A. vera gel can be attributed to an increased partitioning of the drug into the skin, while A. ferox whole leaf modified the diffusion characteristics of the skin for ketoprofen. The tape stripping results indicated that A. marlothii whole leaf delivered the highest concentration of the ketoprofen into the different skin layers.

Conclusions: Of the selected aloe species investigated, A. vera gel material showed the highest potential as transdermal drug penetration enhancer across human skin.

Keywords: Aloe ferox; Aloe marlothii; Aloe vera; penetration enhancer; skin.

© 2014 Royal Pharmaceutical Society.

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