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HPBCD DMT part 1 Options
 
ava69
#141 Posted : 7/9/2021 11:42:57 AM

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Shroombee said:
Quote:
I've been meaning to say that based on my personal experience, ava69's sublingual dosage recommendations might be on the high end for some people. Although I've noticed oral pharmahuasca dosage recommendations seem to be all over the place, so trial and error is necessary to figure out what works for you. I'm sure ava69's many years of experience with Aya and his body weight allow him to enjoy the higher doses.
It's true, THH dose is on the high end for myself, weight = 220lb, 12% bodyfat, and lots of experience with it.

THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi base Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, native Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH. Think of it in terms of acid, 150ug of acid is good dose, so is 150mg of THH, 250ug of acid is strong dose, so is 250mg of THH. See attached paper for average THH dose. It's true I use 300mg of THH each time, but when combined with sublingual 90mg of DMT complexed with 630mg of plain HPBCD, (use 720mg if using 2-hydroxy PBCD), it is identical to around 700mg of super-mescaline, beautiful beyond belief. I recommend minimum of 150mg of oral THH.

Colors will only be neon-colorful, music will only sound bad-ass incredible, beauty enhancement will be "over the top" and actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Important teamwork takes place with THH + DMT. In my experience, THH also doubles the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full 90 minutes out of each HPBCD DMT dose. You can even re-dose more sublingual HPBCD DMT x 2 more times (every 1.5 hour) at night for a 4.5 hour total strong experience with long afterglow. See page 2, post #32 on the visions that 300mg of THH alone (all by itself) causes with closed eyes.

DMT not only colorizes the normally monochrome static and animated THH visions, but exponentially adds on to & multiplies visionary and audial factors, the combo teamwork is infinitely divine & transcendent, just like with high dose cactus tea.

Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115:
Quote:
Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.

The_architect said:
Quote:
I ought to try this combo.
I have one question, have you tried taking THH orally and then smoking DMT?
How does it feel like? how long does it lasts?

I planned on doing it with some friends (I´m not o kind on doing aya with certain friends, once you take it there´no coming back) so the plan was:

Taking 1,2-2gr of cubensis mushrooms
Taking 200mg of THH
Smoking DMT (joints of non enhanced changa, caapi vine and lear, etc)

Will the effects of dmt last longer with by taking 200mg of THH?
Thanks for possibly trying this one day The_architect. This should help answer your question:

professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Quote:
Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.

Starway7, if I understand you right, you were saying your THH has not a pure blue glow, but a tint or shade of green in it? If you have harmaline, you can easily convert it to pure THH in 1.5 hour by following instructions on post #12. My THH is pure white, but what you can do is get a wet cue tip and dab it into your tan THH, then rub it on a paper plate, and hold in front of black light, if the streak glows blue, then you have THH. Any green in it, then you have some harmaline mixed in usually. The THH can still be off white to grey or tan and work fine. When THH is rubbed on gums or tongue, it has a metallic lingering taste. It's stimulating since it blocks serotonin like ibogaine, LSD, mescaline & shrooms & has a 10.5 hour half-life with strong peak at 5 hours. Serotonin-blocking causes stimulation.

To answer the question about the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin compared to plain HPBCD:

Update: 7/9/2021: Two nights ago, after not having taken anything for 7 days, took oral 300mg THH 45 minutes earlier, then sublingual (held under tongue 15 minutes) 90mg DMT complexed to 720mg of the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin (use 630mg if using plain HPBCD from China), phenomenal strength, felt like 700mg of mescaline, one of the most intense and enjoyable visionary experiences of my life, neon colors super abundant with open eyes, visuals flying past me at amazing speeds, visuals so strong, whether with closed or open eyes, geometrics and colored sparkles filled every inch of space, it looked like neon colors were melting in mid-air and reforming into infinite varities of colors. The trip while being super strong, was entirely relaxing and calm, just like with high dose cactus. I am blown away.

Euphoria and beauty enhancement way over the top, music entirely alien sounding and every sound as if heard for the first time...women on the movies playing looked like super-beautiful cartoon caricatures of themselves...so very impressed. So yes, in conclusion, the 2-hydroxy works just as well as the plain HPBCD. I re-dosed every hour and half x 2 more times during night, enjoyed movies to the max...the 90mg HPBCD DMT was incredibly trippy beyond belief! Each dose fully dissolved under tongue at the 15 minute point, at 22 minute point went to full throttle, and stayed there good 1.5 hour each dose. So very glad I took it last night, afterglow so nice.

This is important: make sure you don't have any "dmt immunity"...in other words abstain from smoking dmt for 4 days or preferably longer before trying this, you don't want any tolerance in play, or this will not work.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
shroombee
#142 Posted : 7/9/2021 10:30:27 PM

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the_Architect wrote:
I ought to try this combo.
I have one question, have you tried taking THH orally and then smoking DMT?
How does it feel like? how long does it lasts?

I planned on doing it with some friends (I´m not o kind on doing aya with certain friends, once you take it there´no coming back) so the plan was:

Taking 1,2-2gr of cubensis mushrooms
Taking 200mg of THH
Smoking DMT (joints of non enhanced changa, caapi vine and lear, etc)

Will the effects of dmt last longer with by taking 200mg of THH?

I can't comment on the THH with vaping DMT yet, as my vaping technique is unreliable.

But with your suggestion of 1.2-2.0 grams of cubensis and 200 mg THH - that might be a lot. I did 90 grams harmine, 110 grams THH, and 1.5 cubensis and I got a lot of strong CEV and blissful feelings for 30-60 minutes (unusual for 1.5 grams cubensis), then it went up another notch and I almost needed my trip sitter. I felt overstimulated so I had to talk myself down. My trip lasted a solid 6 hours, which is a lot longer than normal for 1.5 grams of shrooms. There's also the possibility that I'm becoming much more sensitive to these medicines, after a year of regular heroic megadosing on shrooms.

I don't know yet whether the trip enhancement was primarily the harmine or the THH, or both. Need to experiment more with psilohuasca harmine/THH ratios.

If you plan to do the shrooms, THH, and DMT combo, I suggest waiting on the DMT at least 2-3 hours to ensure you understand how the shrooms and THH are affecting you. Note THH has a half-life of 8-11 hours.
 
shroombee
#143 Posted : 7/9/2021 10:38:19 PM

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tregar wrote:
Subjectively, [THH] appears to be a strong 5-ht1a agonist, and over 80% of brain 5-ht receptors are 5-ht1a receptors according to Dr. Nichols. Imho, subjectively, due to it's 2-week tolerance but 11 hour half-life, it may have significant 5-ht2a activity as well. There is no tolerance to 5-ht1a agonism, but there is long lasting tolerance to 5-ht2a agonism according to Dr. Nichols. In nature, many 5-ht2a visual agonist are also 5-ht1a agonist in order to balance out each other, yin and yang. However, many man-made molecules of this nature lack this delicate balancing effect. I also remember ron used to call it the "coffee of the harmalas".

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...amp;m=570025#post570025

Is it certain that THH has a 2-week tolerance? ava69, you've used high doses of THH more frequently than every 2 weeks, correct? And I assume you haven't noticed a tolerance?
 
the_Architect
#144 Posted : 7/9/2021 11:03:47 PM

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shroombee wrote:

I can't comment on the THH with vaping DMT yet, as my vaping technique is unreliable.

But with your suggestion of 1.2-2.0 grams of cubensis and 200 mg THH - that might be a lot.

Yes, thanks for your comment.
I´d been researching older threads on vaping DMT + THH.
And found out that for vaping, as opossed to taking it orally or sublingually. In general you need smaller doses of THH (or harmalas too).

So... Probably going to go for 100mgr of THH, 1,2 gr dried cubensis.
Wait a little bit... se how the THH makes the cubensis different anyhow.
And then, if green light given, start slowly with the DMT... if you are doing change joints, I guess you can go one hit at a time... slowly... in case the pedal is locked and you can´t pull the brake anymore...
"...after five seconds I was no longer a marxist, no longer a materialist, no longer a rationalist.
It killed those things, it cauterized them..."

Terrence McKenna
 
shroombee
#145 Posted : 7/10/2021 12:35:21 AM

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the_Architect wrote:
So... Probably going to go for 100mgr of THH, 1,2 gr dried cubensis.
Wait a little bit... se how the THH makes the cubensis different anyhow.
And then, if green light given, start slowly with the DMT... if you are doing change joints, I guess you can go one hit at a time... slowly... in case the pedal is locked and you can´t pull the brake anymore...

Let us know how it goes!
 
ava69
#146 Posted : 7/10/2021 12:52:58 AM

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New data has revealed that THH is not a 5-ht2a agonist at all, but rather a strong agonist at all three adrenal receptors, just like mescaline. It has around the same tolerance as that of mescaline, very short tolerance, you can use it again with just 4 days off if you want (not a good idea though, best to wait at least 7 days or more off in between use), whereas with LSD (5-ht2a agonist), there is a long tolerance, more like 2 weeks. Both mescaline and THH block serotonin strongly, therefore they are both potent 5-ht1a agonist. 5-ht1a agonism results in serotonin blocking, which make up over 80% of brain 5-ht. Ibogaine and THH have been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors (LSD, mescaline, shrooms), which are competitive with substrate. I would say the main thing to get out of this is that DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but requires teamwork with THH to do this, day to day normal survival filters (serotonin 5-ht) are then blocked and all barriers & doors are broken down as a result, divine transcendence results with the teamwork....ie music sounds incredible, beauty enhancement is infinite, real Ayahuasca visions appear, colors are neon and not subdued and dark, spiritual insights are powerful, etc. When high dose THH and moderate dose DMT are combined, they form in my experience what is known as "super-mescaline", dirt-cheap experience which is identical to high dose mescaline in my experience, add in some harmine and it becomes Ayahuasca in feel.
 
starway7
#147 Posted : 7/10/2021 1:06:10 PM

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On the subject of THH...it seems that many of us are looking for purity/....

But are we forgetting..the more pure something is ...the more risky it can be to take..like my recent example of taking 98 percent pure THH ... [mine probible converted back to Harmaline]/ but still had a strong effect...especially taken sublingually...

Sublingual take less to work..i believe...and when i took only one half of a scoop sublingually [about 25mgs] a couple days ago...then smoked a very small dose of spice..[12 to 15 mgs] i went through that...[ high speed elevator up experiance!] it wasnt very enjoyable... as i could still feel my body... and hear a loud wining noise!

That little bit of THH must have had a strong effect ..combined with the spice...


It warns on the lift mode certificate of purity,,,take extreem caution!... if taking this THH with

psycoactive compounds!!

I sometimes think i can get about the same effects from brewing a cup of Rue tea [staying in the 1 to 3 gram limit on the seed...and its lack of purity may be safer than the extracted THH?


This is just a judgement call....I know rue contains some THH along with the two Harmalines...

Just saying this pure THH is not candy...it must be used safely!


 
BongQuixote
#148 Posted : 7/10/2021 2:51:45 PM
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Actually rue does not contain much, if any, THH at all. I've done a lot of extractions, and analyzed the crystals under a microscope. It's usually a even split between harmine and harmaline. These are of course closely related to THH chemically, and some of the effects overlap, but don't drink rue tea expecting a THH experience.
 
ava69
#149 Posted : 7/10/2021 3:46:33 PM

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Keep up the good work starway7. Loveall said he will hopefully try this out soon and help to write up. Voidmatrix will one day get to the higher doses above 30mg. Violet Quark hopes to try out one day. BongQuixote is correct, there is next to zero THH found in rue, but simply follow instructions on post #12 to convert harmaline from your rue extract to very pure THH should you choose, takes only 1.5 hour. Remember, this is not like smoked dmt, you need the higher DMT doses (60 to 80mg) in order to provide the "horsepower" to keep the level 5 Shulgin strength duration long at 1.5 hour. You have probably noticed, my favorite is now 90mg of the HPBCD DMT.

INDOORS:

More on tolerance...due to my work schedule, I only have 2 weekends off, but have several midweek days off every other week, so I take a 300mg oral THH 45 minutes earlier + 90mg sublingual HPBCD DMT journey on Wed, 9 days later on a Friday have another journey, then 5 days later have another journey on a Wed, then 9 days later have another journey on a Friday, since I re-dose every 1.5 hour, I am taking total of 3 sublingual HPBCD DMT doses, giving me a 4.5 hour strong trip with super-long afterglow...so I basically use this stuff x 4 times a month, keeps me extremely happy and depression free.

I have ZERO tolerance using it like this, with extended time off from the journeys every other week, which makes up for the week when I use it again 5 days later due to not having every weekend off.

OUTDOORS:

Should I venture outdoors to the waterpark, where I get a pass every summer (former beach and deep-water waterpark lifeguard), also a lifeguard instructor for many years at the waterpark...

I will use outdoors instead: 3 x 12" long 2.5" wide or so PC san pedro cactus tea (PC san pedro probably accounts for 99% of all san pedro on this continent) this gives me around 350mg mescaline tea. Yes, you can still trip hard on PC san pedro if you use enough!

I will take this boiled down tea first. After the tea has sat in fridge several days in 1/2 pint tall jar for all the nausea causing sediment to fall and stick to bottom, just decant and drink only what is above the thin tiny sediment layer for ZERO nausea, or alternately simply filter tea brew thru a cotton ball in a funnel to eliminate the nausea causing sediment.

...then 45 minutes later take 250mg of THH, always stagger so the trace maoi's in cactus do not interact with the SRI which is THH at same time, which can cause unpleasant body symptoms.

The combination of the approx 350mg mescaline tea + 250mg THH gives me a trip identical to around 500mg of mescaline, trip my ass off outdoors at waterpark all day, super strong while completely relaxing and calm, can even hold normal conversations and complete control of all my faculties while tripping level 5 Shulgin strength outside. The beauty outdoors in nature is breathtaking and unbelievable.

Stay true to yourself. Peace, Love & music.
www.friskyradio.com

Pic: waterpark nature fun
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ava69
#150 Posted : 7/14/2021 1:10:20 PM

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In conclusion...

7/15/2021 important update to the diary: After 3 months working with this stuff, I decided to try some experiments, taking as usual 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before taking the 90mg DMT complexed to 630mg plain HPBCD in 10 drops boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug all stirred/mashed/scraped/kneaded together on a spoon using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, stirring alone is not good enough, use scraping & mashing, as scientist form complexes with force mashing/kneading...then placing bottom of tongue on to spoon, the sticky gel-like complex all adheres. Held sublingually under tongue pressed down into the sublingual mucosa (only 100 microns thick) for 15 minutes (it all dissolves in 15 minutes).

In preparation for an evening's journey, I will often suck up the 0.5ml (10 drop complex) into a 3ml plastic syringe, pre-preparing 3 of these syringes, each with 90mg HPBCD complex so I can shoot one of these re-dose under my tongue every 1.5 hour without having to make more while I'm tripping. They can even be stored long-term in the freezer, and they de-frost quickly at room-temp when pulled out of freezer.

--> What I've been doing recently is experimenting with taking 200mg of harmine orally around an hour or more before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT. In other words, I'm taking the oral harmine at around the same time I'm taking the oral 300mg THH.

I have found this is especially useful in overcoming any developed tolerance to the sublingual HPBCD DMT, this use of oral harmine seems to completely reset any tolerance and drastically lower the body's overall MAO defenses for the entire evening, allowing for a sublingual HPBD DMT journey that is extremely powerful and very long duration when there is any sort of developed DMT tolerance.

The harmine seems to impart a very long 5 hour total in my experience "lowering of MAO defenses system wide in the body", so when I continue to take the sublinugal HPBCD DMT under my tongue x every 1.5 hour I continue this extremely powerful experience for 4.5 hours total with super-long afterglow.

--> Alternately, what one can do is use 30mg sublingual harmine (no complexing to HPBCD needed) taken 1/2 hour before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT, this could prove nearly identical to using 200mg oral harmine, I will experiment with this in the future in place of the oral harmine.

--> I know that I had developed a strong tolerance as when I tried sublingual 90mg HPBCD DMT earlier in the day, it did not work at all, until after I had taken the harmine...which completely reset my tolerance, then a couple hours after taking the harmine the sublingual 90mg HPBCD DMT worked with full force, stronger than anything previously encountered.

I recently experienced the most powerful journey out of all the many journeys I have taken in 3 months, by experimenting as written above...this taking first of 300mg THH 45 minutes before then of 200mg harmine around an hour or more in the evening before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT x 3 total sublingual re-doses during the evening (every 1.5 hour) really turbo-charged the experiences...just completely blown away.

The open-eyed visuals were extremely powerful, Shulgin level 5 strength easily, impossible not on this earth neon-colors on all the walls constantly shifting into other colors, with mind-bending geometrics, beauty-enhancement so over the top & infinite, music so incredible, actresses on the movies again looked like super-beautiful glowing dazzling cartoon caricatures of themselves, felt identical to 700mg of mescaline, but this was with a developed tolerance.

I have been completely able to maintain this level 5 shulgin strength level for 4.5 total hours with no weakness or lowering of strength even on the 3rd re-dose, completely awestruck, and this has been accomplished when I had a tolerance on monday, after having taken this stuff only 4 days earlier, I wanted to see if harmine would make a difference in lowering the developed DMT tolerance, and it did drastically.

I can only imagine what it might do when one does not have a tolerance, waiting normal 7 days or longer before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT again, which is the way I normally use it.

Based on these findings, I encourage other future psychonauts to experiment with adding in some 200mg harmine either orally or alternately 30mg harmine used 1/2 hour sublingually before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT...to lower the body's overall MAO system defenses for the entire course of these sublingual HPBCD DMT re-doses all evening long, as this single taking of only 1 dose harmine works incredibly well for the entire evening, a good 5 hours total in my experience. I am able to maintain Shulgin level 5 strength for each of the 3 re-doses with ease, even with a developed tolerance, even though I plan to go back to my normal zero tolerance 7 to 9 day time-frame between doses. I will again experiment with usage of the single dose harmine even without a developed tolerance in the future.

This single usage of either one-time dose 200mg oral harmine or one-time dose sublingual 30mg harmine is ground-breaking in my experience in lowering any developed DMT tolerance, and further in potentiating the strength levels of these already powerful sublingual HPBCD DMT doses by lowering the body's system-wide MAO defenses for a good 5 hours total during the evening of every 1.5 hour HPBCD DMT re-doses, even when there is no tolerance in play.

I am especially thankfull to Loveall and downwardsfromzero for mentioning to me months ago about the potential inclusion of 25 to 30mg sublingual harmine experimentation beforehand. It just took me a while to finally implement it properly, and especially glad I did finally.

Pic1: 3ml syringe and puppy dog sunglasses storage case for syringes. The syringe's liquid complex becomes re-flowable again after sitting at room temp for a short while, in case it has been pulled from freezer storage.

Pic2: Woman sitting on the Eleusis ruins of ancient Greece where the sacred Kykeon entheogenic beverage was drank in ritual for nearly 2,000 years. In its heyday, up to 3,000 initiates could be received at a time.

pic3: Spirit animals watch on & guide the process as 2-step HPBCD DMT for sublingual use with oral THH Ayahuasca is prepared with meditation, prayer & intentions. Table showing subjective DMT strength from 20 to 80mg.

pic4: 3ml syringe filled with 10 drop (0.5ml) of the HPBCD liquid complex (80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD, use 640mg if using 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin, 1:1 molar ratio = 1:7 weight gram ratio if using plain HPBCD from China, 1:8 weight ratio if using more common 2-hydroxy PBCD).
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GLTASN
#151 Posted : 7/14/2021 3:30:50 PM

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Woohoo Ava69, finally got the chance to try it after a month of entertaining out of state guests. I have to admit I differed from your recipe as I could find the metal spoons in time.
Took 266mg thh in a gelcap, 45 mins later I mixed 60mg dmt with 480mg hpbcd added 11drops boiling h2o mixed in a shotglass with a plastic spoon. I imagine I left some in glass and on spoon used to scrape other spoon. Held under tongue for 10 mins(tried for 15 but couldn't) and swallowed it. Taste wasn't too bad, my toothpaste burns more btw.
I felt like I took 3/4tab lsd with the addition of full afterglow color enhanced vision, weak cevs. Effects dropped rapidly after 90 mins and about 2.5 hours from taking the thh I was back to baseline. Was in very good mood rest of evening. One thing not mentioned was how it enhanced the flavors of food. Went to eat while tripping and it was awesome, lol

Found the metal spoons, going for 70 mgs in a few days.

I do have a ? if you have a sec.? Is the gel cap ok for taking thh?
"It may be that my role in the universe is, to question my role in the universe."
 
ava69
#152 Posted : 7/14/2021 4:06:31 PM

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GLTASN said:
Quote:
Woohoo Ava69, finally got the chance to try it after a month of entertaining out of state guests. I have to admit I differed from your recipe as I could find the metal spoons in time.
Took 266mg thh in a gelcap, 45 mins later I mixed 60mg dmt with 480mg hpbcd added 11drops boiling h2o mixed in a shotglass with a plastic spoon. I imagine I left some in glass and on spoon used to scrape other spoon. Held under tongue for 10 mins(tried for 15 but couldn't) and swallowed it. Taste wasn't too bad, my toothpaste burns more btw.
I felt like I took 3/4tab lsd with the addition of full afterglow color enhanced vision, weak cevs. Effects dropped rapidly after 90 mins and about 2.5 hours from taking the thh I was back to baseline. Was in very good mood rest of evening. One thing not mentioned was how it enhanced the flavors of food. Went to eat while tripping and it was awesome, lol

Found the metal spoons, going for 70 mgs in a few days.
Thanks for beautiful report GLTSAN. I would only add in future to prepare on a spoon using end of another spoon to not only mix it, but you must scrape/knead/mash it all together using your muscles for 2 minutes...this is how scientist prepare the complexes, using force mashing, see Ofloxacin study on post 15, stirring alone will create a weaker complexed product. Hopefully next time you will be able to hold it for the full 15 minutes, a strong kneaded complex helps reduce the sting a bit, as there is less un-complexed freebase dmt floating around, but there is still a mild to moderate sting felt as the complex readily absorbs thru the sublingual mucosa. Look forward to your 70mg dose in future, keep up the good work, much appreciated! Thanks for doing everything correctly, using the boiling hot water, a good dosage, the pre-taking of THH, etc. 60mg is what I recommend as starting dose as it is a 3.5 on Shulgin scale. Yes, you can absolutely put THH into a gel cap. Again, many thanks! Glad you found the metal spoons.

300mg THH orally 45 minutes before with sublingual 60mg properly complexed HPBCD DMT always gives me a strength level of around 150 mics of acid, but way more aesthetic and beautiful, 60mg HPBCD DMT with 300mg oral THH feel like around 450mg of mescaline, 80mg HPBCD DMT with 300mg oral THH feels like around 600mg of mescaline, and 90mg HPBCD DMT with 300mg oral THH feels like around 700mg of mescaline to me. Taking a vow of silence (as this is held sublingually) like a Monk for 15 minutes is a pre-requisite for usage, or like the movie "a Quiet Place", no speaking, silence is golden.
 
ava69
#153 Posted : 7/15/2021 8:57:41 PM

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The end. Complete summary of this entire paper in 2 pages. Includes everything I've learned in 3 months working with this new discovery:

DMT molecular weight = 188 g/mol
HPBCD molecular weight = 1300 g/mol
2-hydroxy PBCD molecular weight = 1500 g/mol

1:1 molar ratio dmt to HPBCD = use 1:7 gram weight ratio dmt to HPBCD
1:1 molar ratio dmt to 2-hydroxy PBCD = use 1:8 gram weight ratio dmt to 2-hydroxy PBCD

1. put 60mg DMT freebase on a spoon

2. cover with 480mg of the 2-hydroxy PBCD powder (1:1 molar ratio), use 420mg if using plain HPBCD (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin), a kilo is dirt cheap from China, cost of 4 movie tickets, and will last a lifetime for yourself and friends.

3. add 10 drops of near boiling hot water from a coffee mug

4. stir, scrape, and mash it all together for 2 minutes...knead/mash/scrape using end of another spoon...Use your muscles to scrape/mash it all together, just stirring or mixing alone is not good enough. It will form a liquid sticky gel-like complex that can even be sucked up into a 3ml syringe and stored in freezer. 10 drops complex will fill it up to the 0.5ml line. I pre-prepare x 3 of these syringes ahead of time for the evening so I don't have to stop and make one every 1.5 hour while I'm tripping.

5. dry bottom of tongue and top of sublingual mucosa with a tissue.

6. put bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it will all adhere to bottom of tongue, or you can shoot a syringe under tongue.

7. Hold in sublingual mucosa under tongue for 15 minutes, it will all dissolve, I've done this enough times to notice it all dissolve in 15 minutes, even 110mg complexed DMT dissolves in 15 minutes sublingually. Spit out any saliva after 15 minutes instead of swallowing it. If it's too uncomfortable before the 15 minutes is over, tilt forward & gently relieve the saliva into a cup while still holding what's under your tongue without releasing it.

There is a mild to moderate sting during the 15 minutes, but I actually like it and it does not bother me at all. If you find this too much, you can always just add the HPBCD DMT from off the spoon to a 1 oz hot water tea which already has 200mg harmine and from 150mg to 300mg THH already dissolved into it, use 100mg of crushed vitamin C to help dissolve the harmals should they be in freebase form. Drink it all at the exact same time just as the Shaman's do for an experience that is many factors stronger than plain freebase DMT or DMT salts, the HPBCD DMT is just like using 30 to 40g of Hawaiian psychotria, it is all encompassing just like the leaf and very strong.

8. 22 minutes after you begin all this, (1/2 the time of an oral dose) you will go from baseline to full throttle, 60mg DMT will take you to a level 3.5 on Shulgin strength scale.

9. So long as you took 150mg to 300mg of tetrahydroharmine 45 minutes earlier, it will double the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it. Update 7/16/2021: Take sublingual 35mg freebase harmine complexed to 210 HPBCD (use 280mg if using 2-hydroxy PBCD) in 10 drops boiling hot water, mixed/crushed then held under tongue for 15 minutes around the same time you take the THH to "super-turbo" charge the strength of all 3 HPBCD DMT sublingual doses for the evening. Just one single harmine dose early on will last for 5 to 6 hours. Alternately, you can take 200mg of oral harmine instead around the same time you take the THH.

From 5-19-21: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD sublingual report dosed x 3 times every 1.5 hour

Full Journey trip report:

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work. The HPBCD complexed DMT works extremely well, the outer water soluble sugary like tasting HPBCD keeps the freebase DMT trapped inside it's non-polar cone, so as the complex sits under the tongue for 15 minutes...

...you feel a mild to moderate sting for around 15 minutes as the HPBCD releases the DMT directly into the bloodstream from the mucosa membrane under the tongue (only 100 microns thick) as the freebase, only as the freebase will it reach from the bloodstream to the brain with maximum effects. I don't have all the answers, I only know it works extremely well. The tongue is completely fine after, and it's as if nothing happened the next day, 100% no scarring or burning, totally normal.

Be sure to press down with tongue the whole time to trap the sticky complex in the sublingual mucosa.

Give this a try...follow 2 step instructions, 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD (use 480mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) with 2 minutes stirring, mashing & kneading all of it hard (to force the DMT into the tornado like HPBCD cone) using your muscles on a spoon with 10 to 12 drops very hot water, put bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere...and hold for 15 minutes in the sublingual mucosa, begins to work in 22 minutes...at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out any saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing, for me this has been less than 1/4oz or around less than 15ml saliva. As I gently spit out the saliva, I will keep any tiny residual amount still trapped or pressed down under tongue for another 5 minutes usually, but I have noticed most of the time, it all dissolves within 15 minutes.

...and is VERY STRONG...I experienced 90 minutes of very strong effects, pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible...feels identical to if I had taken 60mg DMT complexed to HPBCD orally with 200mg harmine with 300mg THH, of course I always take 300mg THH orally any time I do this using the sublingual DMT.

I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg.

The effects were so INCREDIBLE, I RE-DOSED 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times the same night, every 1.5 hours...it was the bomb...I was in 7th heaven.Smile

...never before have I had such insane visuals all night long...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the DMT and THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw the other night...I was blown away, and will be thinking about this for a very long time...this sublingual DMT along with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before is my absolute favorite...there is no nausea...I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea...out of this world good...I had non-stop closed eye visions all night long, insane visions...totally blown away.

I love the "oral 250 to 300mg THH + sublingual 420mg HPBCD complexed to 60mg DMT administration" as there is a complete lack of "queasiness feeling during the journey", perhaps because there is no harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines...I don't know the answer for sure, but I like it.

Remember, I took 300mg of THH once early on, then every 1.5 hour I took 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg of HPBCD sticky liquid under my tongue for 15 minutes held...so I took it x 3 times...one of the most visionary entheogenic experiences of my life.Love

Update 7/16/2021:

How to turbo-charge the strength of each 3 sublingual HPBCD DMT doses for the evening, beyond level 5 Shulgin strength, in other words "super-strong", simply by using a single dose of harmine early on, lasts a good 5 to 6 hours.

DMT molecular weight = 188 g/mol
Harmine molecular weight = 212 g/mol
HPBCD molecular weight = 1300 g/mol
2-hydroxy PCD molecular weight = 1500 g/mol

1:1 molar ratio harmine to HPBCD = use 1:6 gram weight ratio harmine to HPBCD
1:1 molar ratio harmine to 2-hydroxy PBCD = use 1:7 gram weight ratio harmine to 2-hydroxy PBCD

If you browse the search for "sublingual harmine" there are a number of topics in which psychonauts have used around 35mg sublingual harmine to potentiate DMT to very strong levels. I used this same technique twice already, this week and the week before to potentiate the already strong sublingual HPBCD DMT to the "very strong" category, like walking thru a curtain of visuals when moving from room to room, and everything surrounded by neon colored rainbow auras and colored sparkles, with high-powered tracers, just incredibly visual open-eyed, very euphoric while still relaxing and calm just like with high dose cactus tea. Music so incredible sounding.

Never take the HPBCD harmine and HPBCD DMT sublingually all at the same time, I found out months ago the harmine interferes with the absorption of the HPBCD DMT, and the result is weak trip, always stagger.

This is the only way I will be using the sublingual HPBCD DMT from now on, by taking sublingual 35mg freebase harmine complexed to 210mg HPBCD in 10 drops boiling hot water mixed/mashed all together for 2 minutes on a spoon, then place bottomside of tongue onto spoon, it will all ahdere and held under tongue for 15 minutes, taking this 30 minutes before I take the sublingual 90mg HPBCD DMT, or alternately, one can use 200mg oral freebase harmine instead, with of course taking 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before the sublingual process as always. Only freebase harmine can be complexed to HPBCD.

I'm blown away by the strength of the sublingual HPBCD DMT this way. It's like taking it to the next level strength, beyond the Shulgin level 5 strength. Taking the sublingual 35mg HPBCD harmine just once (one dose early on) is enough to make all three sublingual HPBCD DMT doses for the evening extremely powerful, with each strong dose lasting 1.5 hour...but the HPBCD complexed harmine seems to leave this lasting effect for a good 5 hours. I attribute this to the harmine's power to "lower all the body systems MAO defenses" for an extended 5 hour period of time.

Dr. Narang in the attached paper on page 1 explains how the "sublingual route can be up to 3 to 10 times greater than oral route", I think this is what is making the sublingual 35mg harmine x 6 average (3 + 10 divided by two) seem to have the strength of around 200mg of oral harmine. I highly recommend this approach for really phenomenal journeys.

Always remember, colors will only be neon-colorful, music will only sound bad-ass incredible, beauty enhancement will be "over the top" and actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Important teamwork takes place with THH + DMT. In my experience, THH also doubles the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full 90 minutes out of each HPBCD DMT dose. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, and has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5 hours. You can even re-dose more sublingual HPBCD DMT x 2 more times (every 1.5 hour) at night for a 4.5 hour total strong experience with long afterglow.

You can either take a sublingual 35mg HPBCD harmine dose or take an oral 200mg harmine dose around 1/2 to 1 hour before beginning all this (around the time you drop the oral THH), either way, you are in for a treat.

Not only does harmine increase the strength of the 1st and two subsequent sublingual HPBCD DMT re-doses every 1.5 hour, but it adds a unique signature in this context which I find most magical, a feeling that the protective allies are smiling down on me, a feature I've always experienced in the past with cactus tea just like DM Turner. Also makes one feel as if they are relaxing in a hot tub.

Update: 8/1/2021 35mg sublingual freebase harmine absorbs just fine, no need to complex it to HPBCD. Just take it at around the same time you drop the oral 150--300mg THH around 45 minutes before beginning the sublingual HPBCD DMT phase.

Stay true to yourself. Peace, Love & music.
www.friskyradio.com

Greta Van Fleet, the new Led Zeppelin.

Pic1: Neon colored rainbow auras and colored sparkles surround everything.

Pic2: 3ml syringe and puppy dog sunglasses storage case for syringes. The syringe's liquid complex becomes re-flowable again after sitting at room temp for a short while, in case it has been pulled from freezer storage.

Pic3: Woman sitting on the Eleusis ruins of ancient Greece where the sacred Kykeon entheogenic beverage was drank in ritual for nearly 2,000 years. In its heyday, up to 3,000 initiates could be received at a time.

pic4: Spirit animals watch on & guide the process as 2-step HPBCD DMT for sublingual use with oral THH Ayahuasca is prepared with meditation, prayer & intentions. Table showing subjective DMT strength from 20 to 80mg.

pic5: 3ml syringe filled with 10 drop (0.5ml) of the HPBCD liquid complex (80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD, use 640mg if using 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin, 1:1 molar ratio = 1:7 weight gram ratio if using plain HPBCD from China, 1:8 weight ratio if using more common 2-hydroxy PBCD).

attached paper 1: sublingual route can be up to 3 to 10 times greater than oral route.

attached paper 2: When vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, native Shuar Indian) are consuming one cup of Ayahausca tea, they are getting 150mg average THH dose, when 2 cups are drank for evening (very common), they are consuming 300mg THH. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115: "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of the dmt.
 
shroombee
#154 Posted : 7/15/2021 9:22:09 PM

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ava69 wrote:
This is the only way I will be using the sublingual HPBCD DMT from now on, by taking 35mg sublingual (no HPBCD complexing needed) harmine 30 minutes before I take the sublingual HPBCD DMT, or use of 200mg oral harmine, with of course taking 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before the sublingual process as always.

For sublingual dosing, are you using harmine freebase or HCl?
 
ava69
#155 Posted : 7/15/2021 11:31:38 PM

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After 2 week series of experiments, found I prefer the sublingual HPBCD complexed freebase harmine, clarified above, thanks for question Shroombee.
 
starway7
#156 Posted : 7/16/2021 12:07:53 AM

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shroombee wrote:
ava69 wrote:
This is the only way I will be using the sublingual HPBCD DMT from now on, by taking 35mg sublingual (no HPBCD complexing needed) harmine 30 minutes before I take the sublingual HPBCD DMT, or use of 200mg oral harmine, with of course taking 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before the sublingual process as always.

For sublingual dosing, are you using harmine freebase or HCl?

are these two different methods below?Wut?



by taking 35mg sublingual (no HPBCD complexing needed) harmine 30 minutes before I take the sublingual HPBCD DMT,....IS THIS METHOD WITHOUT THH?....



quote....

or use of 200mg oral harmine, with of course taking 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before the sublingual process as always...this one with THH ....i asume..
 
ava69
#157 Posted : 7/16/2021 12:48:29 AM

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Always THH no matter what. 150mg to 300mg THH always. 35mg sublingual HPBCD harmine (or you can take 200mg oral harmine) taken around the same time as the oral THH, 45 minutes before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT. The harmine lowers your overall body system's mao defenses for a good 5 to 6 hours I've experienced, so just one dose early on works all night. This causes the three re-dosed sublingual HPBCD DMT every 1.5 hour to be phenomenal in strength, like woahhh this is really powerful. See post #153. Starting to look like alphabet soup.
 
starway7
#158 Posted : 7/16/2021 1:53:28 AM

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ava69 wrote:
Always THH no matter what. 150mg to 300mg THH always. 35mg sublingual HPBCD harmine (or you can take 200mg oral harmine) taken around the same time as the oral THH, 45 minutes before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT. The harmine lowers your overall body system's mao defenses for a good 5 to 6 hours I've experienced, so just one dose early on works all night. This causes the three re-dosed sublingual HPBCD DMT every 1.5 hour to be phenomenal in strength, like woahhh this is really powerful. Starting to look like alphabet soup.



ava69...i asume you have seen my ..[lift mode].. THH ..a very clear photo of it .. in a post above ..its color is more tan sandy color..[[a close color to crudly extracted rue]...
Please Take a look at it ...what do you think??

I gave it the black light test after desolving it in wt vinager...it glows mostly...

[[a pale yellow with a green tint].....everything ive read says its not THH !

it may have converted back to a Harmala alcaloid,...probibly because it was stored incorectly...

[[or maybe it never was THh?]



You say your Thh is white...meaning you must be storing it corectly...if it keeps it white color..

if you veiw your THH wet it should be a pale blue in color..if its THH..


Is there a way..to convert my thh back to better purity?

does anyone else know how to convert it back to thh?.../
 
ava69
#159 Posted : 7/16/2021 7:01:24 PM

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Hi staryway7, I am a chemist...made my own THH, pure white, see post #12 on how to do this, takes only 1.5 hour to convert harmaline to pure white THH. Pure blue glow under blacklight, like psilocin or LSD glow. If there is green in the glow, it's contaminated with un-converted harmaline. Yes, you can convert your THH to better purity, just throw it all in the stir mantle for 1.5 hour and re-convert, it will not hurt the THH that is already converted at all.

I summarized this entire paper in post #153 with everything I've learned over 3 months.
 
starway7
#160 Posted : 7/17/2021 2:12:03 AM

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ava69 wrote:
Hi staryway7, I am a chemist...made my own THH, pure white, see post #12 on how to do this, takes only 1.5 hour to convert harmaline to pure white THH. Pure blue glow under blacklight, like psilocin or LSD glow. If there is green in the glow, it's contaminated with un-converted harmaline. Yes, you can convert your THH to better purity, just throw it all in the stir mantle for 1.5 hour and re-convert, it will not hurt the THH that is already converted at all.

I summarized this entire paper in post #153 with everything I've learned over 3 months.



i read most of post 12 on converting back to THH...

Looks simple enough...what i have is a freebase thh that probibly converted back to harmine because of bad storrage,..

Do i have to use zink?...if so where can i find it easily in the stores/?


I read zink can be explosive...!


I remember once mixing about 25mgs of my THH powder with 20 mls of white vinegar..it mixed fairly quickly without problem..

The second time!... i tryed mixing it with wt vinegar...... it just wanted to make ..[big bubbles]!.... and not desolve evenly.. like it did once before?

Was that the hydrogen escaping?

Any way...can i convert to THH without zink .. stirring ..mixed in wt vinegar alone ?

If i need zink ...where to find it..easily?
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