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HPBCD DMT very bioavailable sublingually under tongue, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca Options
 
fog
#41 Posted : 5/19/2021 8:27:26 AM
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ava69 wrote:
it stings a little, but the results are worth it


Have you ever tried any dmt salts sublingually? How does the sting compare? In my experience the burn from salts is too much to handle.
 

Psychedelic news, articles, interviews and art from the DMT-Nexus and other sources.
 
ava69
#42 Posted : 5/19/2021 11:24:01 AM

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See post #19 at bottom of page 1 for an easy extraction based on Noman's or Norman's tek using a 2L erlenmeyer flask that has a tapered neck, making it easy to collect your naptha in the narrow neck area using a long glass pipette. Yields 1.5g from 150g powdered bark.

Fog said:
Quote:
Have you ever tried any dmt salts sublingually? How does the sting compare? In my experience the burn from salts is too much to handle.
Thanks for reply Fog. I will answer your questions below.


Part 13: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD sublingual report dosed x 3 times every 2 hours


Full Journey trip report:

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work, and the sting is terrible just like you mention Fog. The HPBCD complexed DMT works extremely well, the outer water soluble sugary like tasting HPBCD keeps the freebase DMT trapped inside it's non-polar cone, so as the complex sits under the tongue for 15 minutes...

...you only feel a mild sting for around 10 minutes as the HPBCD releases the DMT directly into the bloodstream from the mucosa membrane under the tongue (only 100 microns thick) as the freebase, only as the freebase will it reach from the bloodstream to the brain with maximum effects. I don't have all the answers, I only know it works extremely well. The tongue is completely fine after, and it's as if nothing happened the next day, 100% no scarring or burning, totally normal.

Be sure to press down with tongue the whole time to trap the sticky complex in the sublingual mucosa.

Give this a try...follow 2 step instructions, 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD with 2 minutes mashing on a spoon with 10 drops very hot water and poured under tongue, use your finger to rub any liquid from the spoon under your tongue as well, in case any is left...and hold for 15 minutes, begins to work in only 10 minutes...at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out any saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing, for me this has been less than 1/4oz or around less than 15ml saliva.

...and is VERY STRONG...I experienced 90 minutes of very strong effects, pupil dilation maxed out, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible...feels identical to if I had taken 60mg DMT complexed to HPBCD orally with 200mg harmine with 300mg THH, of course I always take 300mg THH orally any time I do this using the sublingual DMT.

I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg.

The effects were so INCREDIBLE, I RE-DOSED 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times the same night, every 2 hours...it was the bomb...I was in 7th heaven...Smile

...never before have I had such insane visuals all night long...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the DMT and THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw the other night...I was blown away, and will be thinking about this for a very long time...this sublingual DMT along with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before is my absolute favorite...there is no nausea...I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea...out of this world good...I had non-stop closed eye visions all night long, insane visions...totally blown away.

I love the "oral 250 to 300mg THH + sublingual 420mg HPBCD complexed to 60mg DMT administration" as there is a complete lack of "queasiness feeling during the journey", perhaps because there is no harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines...I don't know the answer for sure, but I like it.

Remember, I took 300mg of THH once early on, then every 2 hours I took 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg of HPBCD sticky liquid under my tongue for 15 minutes held...so I took it x 3 times...
one of the most visionary entheogenic experiences of my life. Shocked

pic: Marsupial (caring), goose (loyalty & courage) & badger (persistence, determination and endurance) symbolize the spirit animals which watch on & guide the process as 2-step HPBCD DMT for sublingual use with oral THH Ayahuasca is prepared with meditation, prayer & intentions. Table showing subjective DMT strength from 20 to 80mg.
 
downwardsfromzero
#43 Posted : 5/19/2021 10:15:36 PM

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Over on the salvia thread:
Loveall's posts seemed worhtwhile to link.

Loveall wrote:
Are we sure the starch is not helping with sublingual administration?

Reading this review paper they mention that salvinorin is lyophilic. I think starch makes a lyophilic colloidal solution.

So maybe the starch helps salvinorin go unit solution and diffuse into the body sublingually? As I understand this thread all strong positive results had starch as part of the formulation. Of course, it could still be an inert carrier as had been assumed, but do we have the dedicated experiment to be sure?

Maybe I'll test pure crystalline salvinorin + starch sublingually, see what happens.
I shall try a sublingual DMT/starch blend sometime soon. Cornstarch is more OTC than HPBCD.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
ava69
#44 Posted : 5/24/2021 10:18:59 AM

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Good luck with your experiment downwardsfromzero.Smile

Shroombee said:
Quote:
Results of THH plus sublingual HPBCD+DMT trial: It works! Thumbs up

Just a few tips before I depart for the summer to the weight room and waterpark:

1. Take 250 to 300mg of THH or tetrahydroharmine around 45 minutes to 1 hour before, as the combo of THH + DMT simulates true Ayahuasca. THH is not an maoi, it is an SRI or serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Mescaline, ibogaine, LSD, shrooms all inhibit serotonin as well, this serotonin blocking action results in expanded consciousness in combo with the DMT as borders and walls are broken down in the mind as a result. I would not omit the tetrahydroharmine as it is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca, very important. It would be like a waterpark without the women and bikini's. Big grin

I have seen the receptorome data for THH, it is very similar to mescaline, as THH not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline (A2A-A2C), these receptors are implicated in not only visionary but feelings associated with aesthetics and beauty.

Using this oral THH + sublingual DMT results in ZERO nausea, ZERO dizziness, ZERO feelings of queasiness as there is no oral harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines.

Just like Professor8 said back in 2010, she, the feminine "THH has the ability to raise your vibration or whole-body frequency (this is really felt strongly) in a most powerful way. She brings a diamond-like crystalline prismy texture & super clear watery dimension to Ayahuasca, like looking down through 10 meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. She brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order."

2. Sublingual DMT salts do not work, and the sting is terrible. Using this method, the sting is mild to a little moderate, the outer water soluble sugary tasting HPBCD helps with this as it traps the non-polar dmt freebase inside it's tornado cone, as it releases the freebase directly into the bloodstream from the sublingual mucosa, only this way do you get max effects, as the freebase travels from the bloodstream directly to the brain.

3. I found that using the bottom of my tongue to "lick any leftover liquid sticky complex" off the spoon will grab any rest of it once you have poured it off from spoon to under the tongue. I get it all this way. I simply press the spoon against the bottom tip of my tongue to grab any leftover from the spoon.

4. The liquid sticky like complex should have all dissolved, there is none leftover when I do this after 15 minutes, be sure to press down with bottom of tongue the whole time to trap the sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa under the tongue.

5. Don't swish your mouth out with anything, just spit out any saliva into a cup from your mouth after 15 minutes, then just sit there as you experience the trip for the next 90 minutes, go brush your teeth if you want way later...it does not hurt the tongue, feels completely fine after it's dissolved. It's even good for dental health imho as it kills any bacteria. But your teeth should be just fine, as we are trapping it in the sublingual mucosa under the tongue.

6. 60mg is very powerful...I redosed every 2 hours, this was indeed a level 5 on the Shulgin scale for me combined with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before the whole journey, has a half-life of 10.5 hours, so 5 hours of strong activity combined with re-dosing 60mg sublingual DMT every 2 hours = incredibly bad ass, I had 5 hours of brightly colored CEV visions as described above...most powerful CEV visionary experience of my life.

I love it even more than strong cactus tea cause it's dirt cheap to experience a level 5 trip now, and no different than strong cactus tea as open eyed beauty is profound, music sounds INCREDIBLE for 5 hours, and heavy CEV visions for hours on end.

7. Update: This past Friday on 5/21/21, I again took 300mg THH one hour before then used 80mg sublingual DMT complexed this time to 560mg HPBCD, mashed with 11 boiling hot water drops for 2 minutes on a spoon, then held complex under tongue for 15 minutes and experienced open eye visuals this time...the walls filled with colored geometrics & open eyed beauty was again profound...this was my 2nd high dose trial, when I took this again sublingually, but used 80mg instead of 60mg. Again, I had high-powered CEV's as well. I have become adept at using this stuff sublingually now. I had none to re-dose as I ran out of DMT, but at least I got 90 minutes out of it: Music sounded out of this world good and it was a very strong journey. I am now taking a 2 week break before I take it again.

8. Try adding another 100mg of HPBCD to your complex, as the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin has a higher molecular weight (1500 g/mol) than my plain HPBCD (1300 g/mol), molecular weight of DMT = 188 g/mol...you want to use a 1:1 molar ratio.

This will help trap more of the DMT, and lower the mild sting threshold even more. Use a 1:8 mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD instead of 1:7 mg weight ratio in other words. This means using 60mg DMT to 480mg HPBCD with 10 drops near boiling hot water from a coffee mug all mashed together on a spoon for 2 minutes, then pour under tongue.

9. I also read in the book Return to the Brain of Eden by Tony Wright & Graham Gynn with forward by Dennis Mckenna, Ph.D. that LSD, Ayahuasca, shrooms, ibogaine, mescaline, and this includes the now researched tetrahydroharmine found in Caapi, all "light up the right hand side of the brain".

This is the side of the brain involved with creativity, spirituality, empathy, art & music appreciation, visualization, feelings of spiritual joy...and that earlier in human history we used our right brain a lot more than we do now.

The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. I think these entheogens not only reduce the energy needed to transition between brain states but are also smart-nutrients or smart-drugs for the right side of the brain.

Pic 1: Music sounds out of this world incredible on oral THH + sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT

Pic 2: My grandmother was an oil painter, and taught me to use the "right side of my brain" by teaching me to paint when I was young. Here are two of the oil paintings she painted of the room-full of paintings she did.
ava69 attached the following image(s):
music.PNG (1,359kb) downloaded 566 time(s).
zz art 1.JPG (96kb) downloaded 550 time(s).
zz art 2.JPG (99kb) downloaded 549 time(s).
 
downwardsfromzero
#45 Posted : 5/24/2021 8:46:07 PM

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I tried the cornstarch variation this morning. Naturally - me being me - the approach was a little vague and wonky as I neglected to write down the concentration of my alkaloid tincture. Nonetheless, knowing that 3 drops of it orally administered after 3g of rue were like a threshold psilocybin dose, it seemed straightforward enough reasoning to use twice that amount. I had held off eating breakfast, having only had a glass of water, and the house was quiet.

400mg of cornstarch were weighed on a small dish, after which the 6 drops of tincture were added. These weighed a total of 160mg and the amount of cornstarch was ample to absorb all the liquid with dry cornstarch to spare. The dry starch was mixed into the now waxy material where the tincture was added. In retrospect, it may have been worth testing this crumbly powder without addition of water but at the time I didn't fancy the extra alcohol burn it may have caused.

Freshly boiled tap water was poured into a cup and a Pasteur pipette was used to transfer 10 drops of very hot water into the cornstarch mixture. This was then mixed thoroughly and by chance took on the perfect thixotropic consistency, where it will pour like a viscous liquid but if poked or scraped it transforms into a solid until the shearing force is removed - something for which cornstarch is famed. I took this to be a good sign and scraped the goo from the small dish using a teaspoon and placed it under my tongue. Remnants in the dish and teaspoon were scooped of with a finger and also transferred, as best they could be, under my tongue.

After a few minutes, a light tryptaminic energy thrilled through my body as I became mesmerised by the wind-tossed leaves of the trees and bushes outside. With the sunshine out there it was a joyful scene and I relished the sun's warmth upon my body. My mind was transported to a lightly meditative state and overall the moment felt perfect.

I quickly tidied the kitchen and prepared myself a cup of very fine matcha with the remaining hot water, which was now at just the right temperature. The noticeably altered state deepened from the initial ±/+ to a clear + (Shulgin); it was 20 minutes since the paste had entered my mouth. I went and stretched out on the sofa, lightly shading my eyes with my hood. There was little in the way of CEVs - if anything it was clearer and calmer than my usual level of mind fizz.

The body buzz continued and it seemed like the molecule was seeking out areas of tension in my body. As I stretched out to relax, my lower spine - a long time problem area for me - gave a very satisfying crunch and the great majority of the pain that has been bothering me there of late simply melted away into nothing.

After a time of lying there on the sofa feeling these gentle effects - both physically healing and mentally positive, like a cleaning out of the cobwebs - the voices of some passersby stirred me from my reverie. My family had gone out to a park nearby and now it was time to drink the rest of the matcha, eat a light breakfast and meet up with them. In the park I was greeted with hugs beneath a magnificent beech tree.

Low doses can be special too!


Further notes on dosing and technique:
I didn't manage to spit out anything after 15 minutes because I produce saliva rather readily and compulsively swallowed some of it. This was quite irritating for my throat and produced a minor coughing fit at about the 15 minute mark. A short while later, some of the swallowed material must have hit some 5HT-3 receptors in my stomach as there was a brief wave of nausea. Fortunately this was cleared up with a few sips of matcha.

The choice to try this experiment without any pre-dose of THH or harm~ine was in order to eliminate possibility of confounding effects. Thus I can confirm that DMT freebase absorbed on cornstarch does show some activity through sublingual absorption. Further tests are required in order to quantify the effective dosage for this ROA variation, but it definitely works. If any of you who have tried the sublingual HPBCD complex are willing to try a comparison using cornstarch that would be very helpful.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
shroombee
#46 Posted : 5/24/2021 8:57:07 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
I can confirm that DMT freebase absorbed on cornstarch does show some activity through sublingual absorption. Further tests are required in order to quantify the effective dosage for this ROA variation, but it definitely works. If any of you who have tried the sublingual HPBCD complex are willing to try a comparison using cornstarch that would be very helpful.

Nice! I assume your tincture is using ethanol? Do you have a rough idea of the concentration? I will give the cornstarch a try within a week and report back.

Here is my experience report for THH and sublingual DMT complexed with HPBCD:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...mp;m=1106140#post1106140
 
downwardsfromzero
#47 Posted : 5/24/2021 9:32:30 PM

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shroombee wrote:
I assume your tincture is using ethanol? Do you have a rough idea of the concentration?
The ethanol used was 90% ABV, and the solution itself I estimate to be around 30% W/W, based on vague recollections and inferences.

Thanks for volunteering, I look forward to hearing of your results.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Violet Quark
#48 Posted : 5/27/2021 9:46:06 AM

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Hi All
I have read this entire thread 3 times.
It looks totally amazing but HPBCD seems impossible to source in my country.
Is this the same stuff?
beta cyclodextrin β-cyclodextrin CAS NO 7585-39-9
If not, Are there any alternatives?
VQ
 
Loveall
#49 Posted : 5/27/2021 12:07:26 PM

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Violet Quark wrote:
Hi All
I have read this entire thread 3 times.
It looks totally amazing but HPBCD seems impossible to source in my country.
Is this the same stuff?
beta cyclodextrin β-cyclodextrin CAS NO 7585-39-9
If not, Are there any alternatives?

I think that cyclodextrin is missing outer ring hydroxypropyl groups to make it more water soluble. What was used here is (2-Hydroxypropyl)-β-cyclodextrin powder; CAS Number: 128446-35-5 I believe.

How about trying cornstarch like DWZ did above? I think chitosan may also be worth an experiment also.
💚🌵💚 Mescaline CIELO TEK 💚🌵💚
💚🍃💚 Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X💚🍃💚
 
ava69
#50 Posted : 5/27/2021 1:34:49 PM

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Violet Quark & Loveall, I have seen it for sale in Europe at couple places, just google "add to cart hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin euro" Auction sites and elsewhere carry it here. And yes, that is same stuff, see below #2, it is only slightly different, made to hold propyl containing molecules even better inside it's tornado like shell, but they work the exact same, totally 100% interchangeable.

Violet Quark & Loveall, thanks for reading...p.s. I had an experience last night that blew my mind again for 90 minutes, took 300mg THH 45 minutes orally before as usual...then used 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD all mashed together real hard on a spoon for 2 minutes using 11 drops near boiling hot water from a coffee mug. I used the end of another spoon to mash it all together. My new improved method is grab all the liquid complex off the spoon using only the bottom of my tongue to grab it all, as it will all come off spoon and "stick to bottom of tongue". So easy and quick and efficient.

I held it sublingual "under tongue", and the walls filled with geometric patterns, and I saw waves of neon splashes of color wash across the room, it was AMAZING, I was tripping so hard...level 5 again on Shulgin scale, I LOVE this stuff...it's worth the initial sting for 15 minutes, then the sting subsides over the next 10 minutes to nothing. I spit out any saliva at end of 15 minutes, but don't rinse out mouth with anything (any residual amount will keep on absorbing), the sting and numbness is gone 10 minutes later...love this more than strong cactus tea, as it is dirt cheap to experience a level 5 trip now. Smile

For the HPBCD DMT experiments, extracted DMT as described below:

1) A procedure based on my own chemist tek, which yields 1.5g DMT from 150 gram powdered bark: all 4 pulls are using 90ml naptha on 150g powdered bark mixed into 1.8 liter lye water (1.5 x 150g bark = use 225g lye dissolved into the 1.8 liter 150 degree hot water.) Just heat up 1.8 liter of water in a big pyrex pot on stove and use thermometer to pull if off when it reads 150 degree F.

Slowly sprinkle lye using safety goggles and long chemical resistant gloves that go up each arm, and stand back as far as possible...(the hot water will fizz but not boil up) into your pyrex pot of hot water. After each sprinkle, stir the water a bit with a super long metal spoon. It will "growl" a bit as it fizzes, but this way it dissolves very fast into already hot water.

Pour this lye water into your 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask using a large automotive funnel. Add 150 grams of finely powdered bark, and use a long chopstick or similar to mix it all together.

Use (.6 x 150g bark = 90ml naptha pull for each of the 4 pulls). An erlenmeyer flask makes it easy to do pulls using a long glass pipette, as the top of flask is tapered, so all the naptha collects at the top for easy pull.

Use an electronic thermometer to check the temp of the Lye water bark mix, when the lye water cools down from 150 degree F to around 120 degree F, then it's time to add your 90ml of naptha, make sure your 2L flask is sitting on a mitten or similar...this makes it easy to swirl your flask to mix the contents, make sure you are using the proper rubber stopper number 9 to 9.5 to seal the top of your flask once you turn it upside down then right side up to mix the contents as well.

Prefer to do a combination of swirling and a couple of upside down then right side up turns of the 2L flask, then once right side up, let the rubber stopper out, and let the stopper just barely sit in the flask (not tight), so gasses can exit. After 1/2 hour, all the 90ml of naptha will migrate & collect at the top of the tapered erlenmeyer flask...use your long glass pipette to collect the naptha, that's it! very easy, no mess, and the tapered erlenmeyer flask and glass pipette with round rubber plunger at the end makes it easy to collect the naptha at the top without collecting any lye water by accident. This is the way a chemist can do it.

I highly suggest using these 5.5 x 7.5 inch pyrex dishes w/covers found at *almart, simply pour each of your 90ml naptha pulls into each of 4 dishes, stack them in the freezer, 8 hours later, pour off naptha thru a coffee filter secured to a wide one-half pint jar to collect any xtals floating in the ice cold naptha, and simply scrape up all the xtals from your square pyrex once it is bone dry.

Super easy instructions in post #50 for 1.5g DMT from 150g bark all in one day using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask and long glass pipette with rubber stopper on end for the pulls.

1st pull = 1200mg, 2nd pull = 200mg, 3rd pull = 100mg, 4rth pull = 50mg, done this x 3 times, each time yield always at or better than 1.5g. Most of the crystals are all stuck to the bottom of shallow dish each time, very nice!

No need to do a sodium carbonate clean on it, it's plenty clean already.

My procedure:
1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
4) add 10 to 12 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a coffee mug
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of a spoon for 2 minutes
6) Take 200 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine orally around 45 minutes before. Then place sticky HPBCD DMT glob (HPBCD powder forms sticky complexes) under tongue for 15 minutes, press down with bottom of tongue the whole time to trap sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa. Be sure to use bottom end of tongue to lick any off spoon that is left behind, you want to get it all.

At end of 15 minutes, spit out any saliva into a cup instead of swallowing. The combination of THH + DMT simulates true Ayahuaasca, but there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero queasiness since there is no harmine or DMT going thru stomach and intestines. 10 minutes in there are heavy CEV's of spinning colored geometrics, visions of ancient architecture, animals, aliens, you name it, she seems to tap into the Akashic record of the ether in the Universe, where all past, present, and future is known. Open eyed profound beauty, music sounds incredible, this all lasts for 90 minutes. You can redose more HPBCD DMT by two more times, around every 2 hours if you want.

The sticky HPBCD DMT glob looks similar to the cartoon below.

Erlenmeyer flask tapers towards the top, makes extractions easier using a glass pipette, as all the naptha collects in a narrow band tapered area near the top.
ava69 attached the following image(s):
extraction.PNG (616kb) downloaded 499 time(s).
zzz collection tray (2).JPG (176kb) downloaded 148 time(s).
 
Violet Quark
#51 Posted : 5/27/2021 7:27:54 PM

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Thanks for the update ava.
I am totally going to give this a go.
Maybe with cornstarch as suggested until I can get some proper supplies.
I will report my findings in due course.
VQ
 
downwardsfromzero
#52 Posted : 5/27/2021 7:41:18 PM

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Violet Quark wrote:
Thanks for the update ava.
I am totally going to give this a go.
Maybe with cornstarch as suggested until I can get some proper supplies.
I will report my findings in due course.

It's entirely possible that cornstarch won't be as efficient as HPBCD - the rapid absorption we know is facilitated by the cyclodextrin can't be guaranteed with cornstarch. Be prepared for milder results, and/or the necessity of using a higher dose if - and only when! - this becomes apparent.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
ava69
#53 Posted : 5/28/2021 9:55:24 PM

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Part 15: How HPBCD DMT was discovered with the help of Ayahuasca


Downwardsfromzero, thanks for your low dose cornstarch complexed DMT report that brightened up your day "became mesmerised by the wind-tossed leaves of the trees and bushes outside. With the sunshine out there it was a joyful scene and I relished the sun's warmth upon my body. My mind was transported to a lightly meditative state and overall the moment felt perfect."

Loveall, thanks for pointing out the difference between beta-cyclodextrin and hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin for Violet Quark, and all your amazing papers and advice.

Violet Quark & Voidmatrix, hope to hear your results one day.

This is the story of how this came about: the plants taught this to me. I did not discover it. I have taken Ayahuasca over 70 times and cactus tea x 200 times. Ayahuasca seems to want to propagate herself all over the globe by any means possible, and if that means using the latest pharmacology advancements such as HPBCD, then so be it. The planet is in crisis, and Ayahuasca wants to help reverse the insane rapid destruction.

Daniel Pinchbeck "How Soon is Now":
Quote:
The human race is careening toward extinction: rising acidity of the oceans threatens coral reefs, habitat destruction, non-native species (predatory fish, bullfrogs, fungus, pathogens), climate change (alters temperature and water levels), pollution and diseases (especially chytridiomycosis, caused from the chytrid fungus) all have been shown to contribute to worldwide amphibian declines.

We clear forest that are full of trees even though we continue to pump CO2 into the air even though we know it's heating up the ozone and melting ice caps; we clear forests that are full of trees that could potentially help clean that co2 out of the air, the Amazon rainforest is the lungs of the planet, but miles of it are slashed & burned every week so that cattle can graize there instead to make hamburgers, and massive soybean cultivation. We throw away plastic water bottles, and worst of all, we feed into the corporate systems that keep this destruction going.
I don't know about you, but I don't use soybeans for anything, don't eat hamburger or steaks, only fish, chicken & turkey daily, as a bodybuilder this keeps me lean daily.

On my 70th Ayahuasca journey using the very last of my stored away Hawaiian psychotria, she showed me a vision of my "lost 1kg container of HPBCD". I had put it away 12 years ago, as I bought it from a sports supplement supplier, once pro-hormones became illegal, I carelessly abandoned the container in a place I could care less about, see pic on post #1.

Ayahuasca has a long standing traditional reputation of helping people find lost personal items like rings, necklaces, etc. through visions. She once helped me find a set of important spoons that I had misplaced many years ago as well. She showed me they were buried in a drawer under forgotten clothes many years old. I once saw a vision of a beautiful woman in medieval times searching for a lost ring in her home, Ayahuasca showed me that it was at the very top of a cubbard in her kitchen.

All that time the HPBCD container was lost, she showed me that it was in my garage buried in a container along with plumbing parts. That night I dug it out of the container and put it in my closet for use the next day. She also showed me a vision of the mimosa tree or shrub, I put 2 and 2 together, and knew what she was telling me...to experiment with HPBCD complexed DMT, and so that is what I did. She already knew that I had experience making sublingual HPBCD pro-hormones, as I had learned it from chemist Patrick Arnold.

I had run out of Hawaiian psychotria, and it had been extinct for the past 3 years, perhaps diverted to all the numerous Ayahuasca centers in South America. I needed a high power alternative.

Daniel Pinchbeck "Breaking Open the Head" (Daniel also states in his book, that Ayahuasca is his favorite entheogen):
Quote:
For many people, Ayahuasca-a slowed-down low-res interface of the DMT flash-seems to convey strong messages from the natural world, of nature as sentient energy and spirit matter, of the need to protect the planet we have been given.

Yage whispers that human beings are meant to be gardeners of this reality, journeyers, storytellers and singers, weavers of the sacred. DMT, on the other hand, conveys no overt human or humane message.

Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 428:
Quote:
My experience with smoked DMT was qualitatively different from the realms and beings Ayahuasca introduced me to. For whereas the Ayahuasca worlds seemed rich, luxurious, and abundant in the transformations of organic and supernatural life, DMT brought me to a world--or to some aspect of a world--that appeared from the outset to be highly artificial, constructed, inorganic, and in essence technological.

A little bit about me...

Becoming a shaman is often just as much of a curse as it is a blessing. Shamans are chosen by the Spirits at birth, but it is not until later in life (usually in their 20’s) that the shaman is struck down. The striking down of a shaman is to dismember them as a person and to have them reborn into something else.

I am not a shaman, but have been thru alot of the near-death experiences Shaman's have gone thru, lost both my twin girls at birth, so have no children, my beloved pet Shitzu died at only age 4 from continuous bladder stones for 6 months, we did everything together...he was unable to pee so many times, we had to rush him to vet, where he was put down. He visited both of us in a dream 2 days later to tell us he was doing great in Heaven with a big smile on his face.

Have nearly died several times, once was hit head on by a truck when driver ran a yield sign, barely survived with numerous injuries. The hospital caught all my fractured ribs but did not diagnose my collapsed lung, so when I got home, drifted into shock in the middle of the night, wife called an ambulance and was rushed to a better hospital where they immediately diagnosed the lung condition and treated me for it.

Once took alot of acacia bark with Ayahuasca instead of the normal Hawaiian psychotria I use, and went into a serious serotonin syndrome shock, for an hour and a half I sweated my ass off sitting in the bathtub, I told my wife goodbye while my dog watched in a sad state...by some miracle pulled out of it, believe it was the high levels of maoi's in the acacia that interacted with the rima's in the Ayahuasca, bad combination. My forehead was pouring sweat for 1.5 hours, was in severe shock and trembling, and knew I was gonna die.

Lost everything in a 100 year severe flood, my home and all my belongings, had just gotten married to my beautiful wife and all the newlywed gifts perished...right after that we moved to an apartment complex, and 5 months later all our belongings again perished as they burnt to the ground after a disgruntled teen threw a lit blunt into the apartment complex after his girlfriend dumped him.

Had it not been for the policeman banging on the door of the apartment, we would have surely burned in the flames, as we were on the 3rd floor & asleep as I worked 2nd shift at the time. We ran down the steps in only our bare feet and suffered smoke inhalation.

Have been thru some near-death experiences similar to a Shaman, who lives on the outskirts of society. Lifting weights, walking in nature with my dog, going to the waterpark with a season pass every summer, and reading Bible all keep my spirits up.

Some of you have contacted me via messenger to let me know that you would like to experience this for other reasons than the visions, to help with treating depression. I will tell you this, yes, Ayahuasca can help to cure not only anger issues, melancholy, drug abuse & addictions, but also depression. She is also able to grow brand new neurons in the brain every time a journey is taken, she has cured people of all sorts of afflictions and ailments, even severe depression. I feel an afterglow for a couple days after a journey, and this refreshed serotonin reset often lasts for a couple weeks.

Celebrities who have battled major depression: Dwayne Johnson "the Rock", Katy Perry, Jon Hamm, Lady Gaga, Michael Phelps, Kristen Bell, Bruce Springsteen, Gwyneth Paltrow, Ashley Judd, Naomi Judd, Ryan Phillippe, J.K. Rowling, Sheryl Crow, Terry Bradshaw, Buzz Aldrin, Tipper Gore, Wayne Brady, Jim Carrey, Robin Williams, Brittany Murphy.

A little bit more on tetrahydroharmine:

1) She has very strong serotonin blocking action, which results not only in stimulation but powerful transcendence as the daily survival filters are lifted so that "mind at large" as coined by Aldous Huxley can be let loose, when combined with DMT, which does not block serotonin on it's own, you then get the "full monty" mind expansion powerful transcendence. See post #32 for journey reports of 300mg THH on it's own. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline as noted by not only myself, but another person here. I have seen the receptorome data for THH, which not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 of the adrenal receptors just like mescaline which are associated with powerful visionary activity, perception of beauty and aesthetics.

2) Yes, she is feminine, which is why I always associate feminine pictures and energy with my journey trip reports that involve her. Queen of the Forest is what I like to call her.

3) She seems to be very stable indefinitely. I've used THH that was many years old that I had lost, still worked exactly the same. Wikipedia to find out more about it (good page on it), or read attached paper on post #57. Even Shulgin remarks in the book TIHKAL that "studies on THH are absolutely imperative." He also remarked that it probably holds one of the keys to unlocking Ayahuasca, but we just didn't know it yet.

4) Please just take tetrahydroharmine orally between 150 to 300mg. She causes no dizziness at 250mg or below, and only a tiny bit at 300mg, but once you are used to her, no dizziness even at 300mg. ZERO nausea, ZERO queasiness, so just consume THH orally at a powerful amount found in normal Ayahuasca brew which if you read attached paper on post #57 is at least 150mg.

Many take multiple cups of Ayahuasca, so the THH is additive in effect, with a half life of 10.5 hours, so you get 5 hours of super strong effects, once you reach 300mg, the powerful CEV visions are seen for hours on end, phenomenal, them combine with DMT and the visions multiply and become colored and even brighter, as THH visions alone are monochrome (one-color) usually in green or blue. The DMT adds color and brightness to the visions, and adds to them exponentially.

Pic: Ayahuasca, Queen of the Forest
ava69 attached the following image(s):
zzz Queen of the Forest.JPG (68kb) downloaded 217 time(s).
 
shroombee
#54 Posted : 5/29/2021 10:34:20 PM

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This morning I tried 40 mg DMT with 400 mg cornstarch sublingually and got a Shulgin level 1 trip: some nice feelings and arousal, no CEV. Last weekend I did 40 mg DMT with HPBCD and 200 mg THH for a Shulgin level 2 trip: dizzyness, feelings of cold, some shadow thoughts, some CEV.

To prepare last weekend's DMT/HPBCD dose, I mixed the DMT and HPBCD together on a spoon, then added near boiling water.

To prepare today's dose, I weighed 40 mg DMT, placed it on a spoon, and added 87 mg of 190 proof ethanol using an insulin syringe to weigh the ethanol. The DMT rapidly and completely dissolves in the ethanol, leaving an amber liquid (my DMT is yellow). I added a tad more ethanol to make up for perceived evaporation (probably unnecessary). Then added 400 mg cornstarch which entirely soaks up the ethanol. Added 10 drops near boiling water and mixed to make sort of a gel.

I like this method of dissolving the DMT in ethanol before adding the cornstarch. I feel it ensures complete integration of the DMT with the cornstarch. When mixing DMT, HPBCD, and water without the ethanol step, I feel it's more difficult to ensure complete mixing.

I pushed the DMT/cornstarch gel to the end of the spoon and stood in front of a mirror to guide the gel under my tongue. There was some minor stinging, but the feeling did not seem as intense as last weekend. Perhaps because I'm used to it now? Or is it something about the more complete integration, or HPBCD versus cornstarch?

The big issue I have with this sublingual technique is that I produce a lot of saliva. I doubt all of the DMT gets absorbed because I quickly find myself with a mouthful of saliva mixed with DMT/cornstarch. I'm sure the DMT/cornstarch has migrated from under my tongue and into the general volume of saliva filling my mouth. After 15 minutes I spit out 27 ml of milky white saliva. Last weekend I spit out 20 ml of saliva with a glob of goo suspended in it.

So why was last weekend's trip stronger than this weekend? The major differences are the THH and cornstarch versus HPBCD.

I'm not sure I'll try anymore sublingual DMT experiments. I feel the excess saliva is not allowing me to absorb all of the DMT, and thus I'm wasting it. Any ideas?

I do recommend trying the sublingual technique at least once though. It does work and you might not produce as much saliva as me.
 
downwardsfromzero
#55 Posted : 5/29/2021 11:38:13 PM

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I have the same thing with saliva production. There are a few things which reduce saliva production but I'm not prepared to use cannabis or belladonna alkaloids to achieve that.

It may be the case that using harmine + THH as a pre-dose, then using a sublingual formulation with DMT but still swallowing the saliva may provide a 'middle road' of some relative advantage in terms of dose efficacy and/or onset time.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
starway7
#56 Posted : 5/30/2021 1:25:49 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
I have the same thing with saliva production. There are a few things which reduce saliva production but I'm not prepared to use cannabis or belladonna alkaloids to achieve that.

It may be the case that using harmine + THH as a pre-dose, then using a sublingual formulation with DMT but still swallowing the saliva may provide a 'middle road' of some relative advantage in terms of dose efficacy and/or onset time.





Ive made sublingual slow desolve...[DMT and rue]...tablets before... and did get some low level effect from holding a tablet under my toung for atleast 15 minutes ... by then i had a buildup of saliva but kept it in my mouth longer swishing it around bucally a little longer before spitting it out...

I spit it out because...[at the time]... i didnt want an oral experiance...just a sublingual one...

I made the tablets from desolving geletin in warm water...then [while the geletin was still liquid] .
I mixed the ...[DMT and Rue acetate]... into the warm liquified geletin ....mixing it compleatly

then letting the geletin cool and harden slowly over night ...untell the geletin had a flexible plastic like hardness...in the morning....

When geletin hardens it peels of smooth glass surfaces easily ..and can be cut with a knife or sissors into little square [window paynes] to be put sublingually under the toung for slow desolve....

Im fairly shure the rue absorbed sublingually!...but how well the spice molecule penetrated sublingually ..im not shure... this method needs more testing....

The better way would have been to transfer the still thick but liquid geletin intp thicker pill moulds,..but i had no molds at the time...

The results i got were low level...but still noticeable ... after 15 to 20 minutes sublingual...

I felt very calm and abnormally relaxed ...similar to a low dose dmt experiance....

and i noticed i was very content to just sit and stare at objects in the room...as if every object within my line of sight took on a special importance and beauty to me ..i was super calm!...to the point of being almost catonic!

After the sublingual absorbtion....I was just so loose and calm ..i could have sat there for a couple hours staring at power recepticles on the walls ...as the wall sockets seemed to take on a two eye and a face apearence....!


I could have even stared at the fibers in a shag carpet and in time imagened worlds within every fiber of the carpet....

The sublingual effect had to be atleast from the ..rue acetate..rue can also make one relaxed and calm....but low dose dmt can also do this....

But the spice molecule has a reputation of not that easily passing through sublingully/?

But maybe a small amount of dmt acetate did penetrate sublingually?

I need to try these tablets more and hold them under the toung longer!







 
ava69
#57 Posted : 5/30/2021 1:29:15 AM

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Starway7, thanks for report. Shroombee and downwardsfromzero, I am sorry to hear you produce so much saliva. In the 7 times I have used this sublingually, only twice did I produce more than my normal low amount of less than 10 to 15ml saliva, but it still did not bother me, but I was happy to spit it out at 15 minutes. Smile I have noticed on subsequent re-doses during the night, that there is even less saliva and sting as the mouth/tongue gets used to it.

On wed night 5/26/2021, I had an experience that blew my mind again for 90 minutes, took 300mg THH 45 minutes orally before as usual...then used 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD all mashed together real hard on a spoon for 2 minutes using 11 drops near boiling hot water from a coffee mug. I used the end of another spoon to mash it all together. My new improved method is grab all the liquid complex off the spoon using only the bottom of my tongue to grab it all, as it will all come off spoon and "stick to bottom of tongue". So easy and quick and efficient.

I held it sublingual "under tongue", and around 12 minutes in, the walls filled with geometric patterns, and I saw waves of neon splashes of color wash across the room, it was AMAZING, I was tripping so hard...level 5 again on Shulgin scale, I LOVE this stuff...it's worth the initial sting for 15 minutes, then the sting subsides over the next 10 minutes to nothing. I spit out any saliva at end of 15 minutes, but don't rinse out mouth with anything (any residual amount will keep on absorbing), the sting and numbness is gone 10 minutes later...love this more than strong cactus tea, as it is dirt cheap to experience a level 5 trip now. Smile

Don't forget if you don't like the sublingual method, you can always use this stuff orally, as it performs many factors better than DMT freebase or DMT salts used orally, see my trip report on post #25. Example: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. But I love the sublingual method personally.

Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron."

I still can't get over the visuals on wed night: I saw entire waves of neon color that extended from bottom of floor to top of ceiling wash all the way from the right of the room to the left of the room, like a laser scanner, there were fine "ripples" in the waves...these waves were broadcast onto the walls, replacing the fine geometrics already seen on the walls...the neon colors were out of this world impossible: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

The euphoria and open-eyed beauty was over the top for a full 90 minutes. The music being played over the 3.5 foot high infinity speakers I've had for so many years sounded incredibly good, like being an alien experiencing sound & music for the very first time.

I had so much fun, I re-dosed again with a lower 60mg around every 2 hours. ZERO nausea, ZERO dizziness, ZERO queasiness feelings. AND IT STILL KEPT WORKING BAD ASS. I work some weekends, so that's why I took it Wed night, as I have random 2 days off in a row midweek some weeks. As a weightlifter, I'm used to experiencing "the burn" in the muscles when lifting, so to me the sting under the tongue is tolerable, does not bother me, for some others, they will want to experience this orally using harmine and thh taken at same time mixed with the HPBCD DMT (which turns 100% clear when it hits the hot water) all together in a 2oz hot water tea, just like I did in post #25.
 
starway7
#58 Posted : 5/30/2021 1:23:39 PM

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ava69 wrote:
Starway7, thanks for report. Shroombee and downwardsfromzero, I am sorry to hear you produce so much saliva. In the 7 times I have used this sublingually, only twice did I produce more than my normal low amount of less than 10 to 15ml saliva, but it still did not bother me, but I was happy to spit it out at 15 minutes. Smile I have noticed on subsequent re-doses during the night, that there is even less saliva and sting as the mouth/tongue gets used to it.

On wed night 5/26/2021, I had an experience that blew my mind again for 90 minutes, took 300mg THH 45 minutes orally before as usual...then used 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD all mashed together real hard on a spoon for 2 minutes using 11 drops near boiling hot water from a coffee mug. I used the end of another spoon to mash it all together. My new improved method is grab all the liquid complex off the spoon using only the bottom of my tongue to grab it all, as it will all come off spoon and "stick to bottom of tongue". So easy and quick and efficient.

I held it sublingual "under tongue", and around 12 minutes in, the walls filled with geometric patterns, and I saw waves of neon splashes of color wash across the room, it was AMAZING, I was tripping so hard...level 5 again on Shulgin scale, I LOVE this stuff...it's worth the initial sting for 15 minutes, then the sting subsides over the next 10 minutes to nothing. I spit out any saliva at end of 15 minutes, but don't rinse out mouth with anything (any residual amount will keep on absorbing), the sting and numbness is gone 10 minutes later...love this more than strong cactus tea, as it is dirt cheap to experience a level 5 trip now. Smile

Don't forget if you don't like the sublingual method, you can always use this stuff orally, as it performs many factors better than DMT freebase or DMT salts used orally, see my trip report on post #25. Example: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. But I love the sublingual method personally.

Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron."

I still can't get over the visuals on wed night: I saw entire waves of neon color that extended from bottom of floor to top of ceiling wash all the way from the right of the room to the left of the room, like a laser scanner, there were fine "ripples" in the waves...these waves were broadcast onto the walls, replacing the fine geometrics already seen on the walls...the neon colors were out of this world impossible: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

The euphoria and open-eyed beauty was over the top for a full 90 minutes. The music being played over the 3.5 foot high infinity speakers I've had for so many years sounded incredibly good, like being an alien experiencing sound & music for the very first time.

I had so much fun, I re-dosed again with a lower 60mg around every 2 hours. ZERO nausea, ZERO dizziness, ZERO queasiness feelings. AND IT STILL KEPT WORKING BAD ASS. I work some weekends, so that's why I took it Wed night, as I have random 2 days off in a row midweek some weeks. As a weightlifter, I'm used to experiencing "the burn" in the muscles when lifting, so to me the sting under the tongue is tolerable, does not bother me, for some others, they will want to experience this orally using harmine and thh taken at same time mixed with the HPBCD DMT (which turns 100% clear when it hits the hot water) all together in a 2oz hot water tea, just like I did in post #25.



This all sounds quite good! especialy the lack of discomfort part ...no dizzyness ECT!
And high visual effect...Smile


Have you tryed to substitute the alcohol that causes burning..with vinegar..and make your sublingual mixture into an acetate? because there is no burning this way....

Or is the alcohol needed for sublingual absorbtion?

I would like to try your method except how do i isolate THH??... isnt that stuff in caapi vine?probibly cant be found OTC?

my sublingual tablet method was intended to slow down saliva production some.. and the ....
[not that slow but ...[medium speed].. the tablet desolves ... was intended to keep the actives in one spot under the toung longer....

my biggest mistake was not carying on the sublingual tests longer....




 
starway7
#59 Posted : 5/30/2021 4:40:50 PM

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HPBCD...........

The more i read about HPBCD...the more interesting it gets...


I checked the saftey reports on ...HPBCD....and it looks very good as it says .. HPBCD.. does not get absorbed by the body? but allows boosted absorbtion of many other substances sublingually?

So it can make dmt sublingualy absorbable.....!~

If it does ...thats a big plus!... for people who dont want to smoke anything...

I WONDER HOW ...HPBCD... WOULD WORK TRANSDERMALLY? has that been tryed yet?/

 
Loveall
#60 Posted : 5/30/2021 5:27:35 PM

💖

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starway7 wrote:
I WONDER HOW ...HPBCD... WOULD WORK TRANSDERMALLY? has that been tryed yet?


Attached is an article about transdermal curcuming (rat skin). Complexed HPBCD gave the best result. DMSO had comparable drug delivery, but the skin irritation was an issue (unlike HPBCD).
💚🌵💚 Mescaline CIELO TEK 💚🌵💚
💚🍃💚 Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X💚🍃💚
 
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