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Journal: 50 Sublingual HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time Options
 
starway7
#341 Posted : 1/17/2022 11:16:51 PM

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physics envy wrote:
Thank you for the tips, Ava.

I only use the Q21Q21 tek for extracting dmt, which uses picking lime and vinegar...no lye. Regardless, I likely just have a more sensitive sublingual area. I'm glad I gave it a go, but it's now 3 days later and today the area under my tongue is almost back to 100%. Only minor irritation now. It was worth it in the name of science, however :-)

Last night I went with the oral method which worked as well as hoped. I did complex the dmt onto a spoon, then dripped piping hot water from a pipette over the spoon and into a shot glass until the mixture was cleaned off the spoon. This gave me about 1/3 of a shot to drink.

I also took 275mg of the Liftmode 'THH' in a capsule, but I took it 45 minutes prior rather than at the same time as the rest. I can't say I noticed any particular effects from the THH again...so maybe my experiment with Liftmode is nearing its conclusion. I could also try it simultaneously with the dmt next time, but at this point it seems unlikely to make any difference.

I also used 150mg Harmine + 150mg vitamin C mixed in 1/2 shot of warm water. I drank the Harmine and the complexed dmt simultaneously. Then a few minutes later, I ate a piece of bread for carbs to instigate digestion.

The effects came on in about 35 minutes, and strong effects lasted for over an hour before they started to subside. It was just the right level I was looking for - very strong visuals for over an hour, and I did a lot of internal self-work during that time which included much physical squeezing and clearing/cleaning. I did have trouble sleeping, so next time I will take the combination earlier in the night.






Dont you think its posible that without using the HPbCD ..spoon hot water...method..even without the thh...

The ...[harmine with the dmt by itself]... would have worked fine..


without all the other steps listed above ...hot water HPBCD...spoon ect ?

or do you think the spoon /..HPBCD...comp;lexing...and all else.. made a difference/?


wont just... harmine..and dmt by itself....Wut? do the trick?
 

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starway7
#342 Posted : 1/17/2022 11:21:02 PM

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physics envy wrote:
Thank you for the tips, Ava.

I only use the Q21Q21 tek for extracting dmt, which uses picking lime and vinegar...no lye. Regardless, I likely just have a more sensitive sublingual area. I'm glad I gave it a go, but it's now 3 days later and today the area under my tongue is almost back to 100%. Only minor irritation now. It was worth it in the name of science, however :-)

Last night I went with the oral method which worked as well as hoped. I did complex the dmt onto a spoon, then dripped piping hot water from a pipette over the spoon and into a shot glass until the mixture was cleaned off the spoon. This gave me about 1/3 of a shot to drink.

I also took 275mg of the Liftmode 'THH' in a capsule, but I took it 45 minutes prior rather than at the same time as the rest. I can't say I noticed any particular effects from the THH again...so maybe my experiment with Liftmode is nearing its conclusion. I could also try it simultaneously with the dmt next time, but at this point it seems unlikely to make any difference.

I also used 150mg Harmine + 150mg vitamin C mixed in 1/2 shot of warm water. I drank the Harmine and the complexed dmt simultaneously. Then a few minutes later, I ate a piece of bread for carbs to instigate digestion.

The effects came on in about 35 minutes, and strong effects lasted for over an hour before they started to subside. It was just the right level I was looking for - very strong visuals for over an hour, and I did a lot of internal self-work during that time which included much physical squeezing and clearing/cleaning. I did have trouble sleeping, so next time I will take the combination earlier in the night.






Dont you think its posible that without using the HPbCD ..spoon hot water...method..even without the thh...

The ...[harmine with the dmt by itself]... would have worked fine..


without all the other steps listed above ...hot water HPBCD...spoon ect ?

or do you think the spoon /..HPBCD...comp;lexing...and all else.. made a difference/?


I always thought ... harmine..and dmt by itself..[mixed in a shotglass with orange juice]..Wut? would do the trick?
 
physics envy
#343 Posted : 1/18/2022 2:25:12 AM

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Starway - I never used hpbcd in the past with oral dmt and it worked fine, so it’s definitely not required. But I thought I would try it to see if it seemed stronger or not. Hard to say really, I would have to try again using no hpbcd. I may give that a try in a month or so to find out.
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igorcarajo
#344 Posted : 1/26/2022 11:30:32 PM
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ava69:

Instead of the harmine sublingual, have you tried orally ingested harmine, maybe at the same time as THH, 45 minutes before the sublingual HPBCD-complexed DMT?
 
ava69
#345 Posted : 1/27/2022 12:51:49 PM

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Igorcarajo said:
Quote:
Instead of the harmine sublingual, have you tried orally ingested harmine, maybe at the same time as THH, 45 minutes before the sublingual HPBCD-complexed DMT?

Thanks for joining in the discussion igorcarajo, seen you reading for some time. Great question igorcarajo, in fact, out of the 44 times I've used the sublingual HPBCD DMT over a year's time, the time I took 300mg pure tetrahydroharmine (THH) + 200mg harmine fb at the same time orally in capsules, then around an hour later took 90mg of sublingual HPBCD DMT (held under tongue for 15 minutes) was the most powerful experience visually with open eyes, and the deepest headspace yet encountered.

For some reason, the sublingual HPBCD DMT was many factors more powerful than any dosage of oral HPBCD DMT. It was many factors stronger, around x5 times. It was so powerful that I saw curtains of neon-colored visuals in the open doorway when I looked to my right. Everything in all directions was surrounded by brilliant neon-colored rainbows, the euphoria and music enhancement was very powerful.

Open-eyed beauty was beyond belief, divine and infinite. The tracers were so powerful, that they went on forever like a hall of mirrors into the distance, and instead of there just being multiples of my hands when I waved them, there were beautiful colored fractals inside the tracer smears. One hour after the sublingual HPBCD DMT started to work, it was still as strong visually & transcendence wise as when it started.

In my trip diary that night, I documented this as the most powerful sublingual experience of my life. There was zero nausea, dizziness or anxiety as well, very impressed. The 200mg of harmine was so powerful, that I continued by taking a 2nd dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT again 2 hour laters after the 1st dose, and it again worked just as strong as the first dose. With closed eyes were seen brightly colored Ayahuasca visions, in my diary I noted that I saw close to a hundred rapidly changing visions from Egpytian scenery to elaborate art carvings in stone, way beyond 4k in detail. This resulted in a +5 strength Shulgin level journey with life changing consequences.

The harmine having a half-life of from 1 to 3 hours, did not die off until around 5 hours later, so each time I took a re-dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT for the evening, it continued to work very strongly. I highly recommend this approach as you brought up in your question, and plan to use the oral harmine again with the oral THH again soon (next week again), but only using the HPBCD DMT sublingually as noted above.

 
igorcarajo
#346 Posted : 1/27/2022 6:53:04 PM
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ava69:

Thank you for the very detailed response. One thing that’s a missing piece for me is: did I really convert harmaline to THH? I think you can shine an ultraviolet light on THH and it should shine in a particular color. I need to read up on that. Also, I have taken freebase harmine/harmaline extracted from syrian rue a few times, and I know the kind of response I have to 200 mg of it (a slight “odd” feeling, visual perception a bit weird with tracers, all of the symptoms are mild, but I can definitely tell that I have ingested the substance). I have not tried my THH, and I haven’t found much information on what it feels like to just take THH by itself. Maybe I’m being overly cautious, but I feel like I want to get a good grasp what each substance does alone before I start combining them.
 
ava69
#347 Posted : 1/27/2022 7:52:12 PM

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Igorcarajo said:
Quote:
Thank you for the very detailed response. One thing that’s a missing piece for me is: did I really convert harmaline to THH? I think you can shine an ultraviolet light on THH and it should shine in a particular color. I need to read up on that. Also, I have taken freebase harmine/harmaline extracted from syrian rue a few times, and I know the kind of response I have to 200 mg of it (a slight “odd” feeling, visual perception a bit weird with tracers, all of the symptoms are mild, but I can definitely tell that I have ingested the substance). I have not tried my THH, and I haven’t found much information on what it feels like to just take THH by itself. Maybe I’m being overly cautious, but I feel like I want to get a good grasp what each substance does alone before I start combining them.

Congrats Igorcarajo on your conversion. Yes, your descriptions of harmine & harmaline are spot on. If you follow directions on post #12, it only takes 1.5 hour for the conversion. Spin for 1.5 hour, then let solution sit for 1 hour without spinning so the zinc dust can settle to the bottom. The solution will have turned from a beginning dark green color to a transparent like color after it sits 1 hour after the 1.5 hour spin. Use the end of a cotton q tip to place in solution and dab on paper plate in front of blacklight, the smear will now glow light blue when transition is done...you can sometimes find harmaline on-line if you don't want to start from scratch.

Dab a wet cue tip into your thh, and smear it on a paperplate under blacklight, if it glows light blue, you have THH. Any green in the glow means un-converted harmaline. Harmaline reduces (reduction is a chemistry term that means hydrogen addition) to THH via addition of a hydrogen atom. Keep in mind harmine also glows blue too. Tetrahydroharmine has a metallic-like lingering taste if you place it on your tongue or lips. Half life of 10.5 hours with peak at 5.25 hours. 12 reasons why she (feminine spirit) is important on post #1. Once harmaline is converted to THH, it never converts back to harmaline even at room temp many years later, it remains stable indefinately. Post #1 contains a table of contents of all the chemistry & trip reports & was updated on 1-1-2022
 
ava69
#348 Posted : 2/5/2022 2:09:32 PM

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https://www.dmt-nexus.me...p;m=1137474#post1137474
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1137474#post1137474
"Sublingual DMT + oral THH - surprising and underrated"

L-dreamer said:
Quote:
Making this thread so that I can post my thoughts on the dosing method described in this thread
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=96861
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
My few experiences have consisted of about 60 mg of freebase DMT dissolved in 500 mg of HPBCD, with 250-300 mg of THH, and about 35 mg of sublingual harmala/harmaline

From the start I want to say that sublingual DMT with oral THH is everything I wanted ayahuasca/pharmahuasca to be. And I think it is also the best way for someone to be introduced to DMT
Where do I start with the pros
- no nausea at all, even if you take sublingual harmine/harmaline with it. It is such an odd and pleasant feeling to not have to fight constant nausea and vomit inducing dizziness. I literally don't have to worry about having a handy throwup bucket like I did with typical oral DMT.
- just the right kind of duration, it never overstays it's welcome, in about an hour you will get whatever you had to receive. No need for a bedridden 2+ h long comedown
- crisp, clear headspace. Previous oral DMT experiences have always given me this pinch of delirium and sleepiness to my mental state. But with this combo and I am fully present in it
- no come-up anxiety, the transition is gradual and smooth
- the DMT visuals are there, and in one experience they seemed even more glowing, or with actual real-life landscapes or persons assembling before my vision instead of the usual DMT geometry
- your body will love to move to the music you are listening
- let's say you accidental swallow the DMT solution or the saliva build-up becomes unbearable - you will still have a pharmahuasca experience with less if not any nausea. And also this form of oral DMT seems to absorb way better than a typical pharmahuasca
- you need less DMT than the typical pharmahuasca
- if you aborted the experience (saliva build-up that you spit out) you will now in about 25-30 minutes for sure, and then you can try again with the same DMT dosage, it won't stack like in pharmahuasca where it can sometimes take even 2 hours to enter fully

Now the cons:
- the saliva build-up can abort your start or break it's knees. Now if you swallow the solution you will still get a top-tier pharmahuasca trip, I repeat again, with barely any nausea. I tried with some cotton rolls in my mouth to stop the saliva pooling around the DMT solution but it was useless. Next thing I want to try are some saliva pads dentists use: either I trap the solution between the pad and the mouth floor, or I infuse the pads with the DMT solution, put the pad to the cheek mucosa or sublingual mucosa, and enjoy the slow release of DMT (even your lips can absorb this stuff pretty well, one of these days I will use the solution as ointment only for the lips to test it)
- and that is pretty much it, I can't think of any other cons of this way of taking DMT

With that in mind here are some questions that could be explored in the future
- how to get consistently the neon-glowing visions, they feel like such an eye-candy that your eyes feel compelled to see in all their beauty; is it a certain THH treshhold? less harmine/harmaline or more sublingual harmine/harmaline?
- do we really need the mouth floor? can I just smear this on my lips, inner cheek, upper gums or mouth top since with these there is not saliva problem?

I still can't believe people aren't all over this method, especially beginners. It is so versatile and maybe even "comfortable". It is worth experimenting only on it for me, goodbye throw bucket and tissues next to my bed, goodbye retching and holding in the taste of earthy vomit, goodbye 5 hour long sedation and diziness that takes up your entire day.
I predict in a short time sublingual DMT will have it's separate section on the Nexus.
Thanks for your experiences and comments L-dreamer. Amazing post.
 
ava69
#349 Posted : 2/6/2022 3:15:49 PM

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L-dreamer said:
Quote:
- how to get consistently the neon-glowing visions, they feel like such an eye-candy that your eyes feel compelled to see in all their beauty; is it a certain THH treshhold? less harmine/harmaline or more sublingual harmine/harmaline?
Once again, thanks for your amazing post L-dreamer, and keep up the great work. In answer to this important question, I always use 300mg of very pure home-made tetrahydroharmine (made easily from harmaline in 1.5 hour). You can sometimes find harmaline on-line if you don't want to start from rue seed scratch. 35mg sublingual harmine has power of around x6 or 210mg oral harmine. 60mg HPBCD dmt = + 3 Shulgin level strength, and 90mg HPBCD dmt = + 5 Shulgin level strength.

The fact that one of your experiences involved seeing actual real-life landscapes and persons assembling before your vision instead of the usual DMT geometry only indicates you are in the realm of actual Ayahuasca visions. You will find that many of the Ayahuasca visions begin with dancing & morphing geometry but these then progress to actual colored beautiful teaching visions, each time you see a new phase of geometrics many times indicates a transition to more phenomenal Ayahuasca visions, just as Benny Shanon remarks in "Antipodes of the Mind". I have found this to be true.

Always test any THH you may acquire elsewhere. For example, there is a THH many are using that is made in China, with several reports of it not glowing blue when a bit is rubbed on a wet q-tip and smeared on a paper palate, and the plate held under blacklight. Pure tetrahydroharmine glows light blue like LSD under UV light, any green in the glow indicates unconverted harmaline. Five reports so far from nexus people saying it glows green instead of blue like pure THH even though the paperwork indicates over 98% pure. THH never converts back to harmaline once made and remains stable indefintely, so this tells me the initial synthesis on those particular batches was incomplete.

As a long time chemist, I take purity seriously, and so should everyone. What would happen if THH with contaminated un-converted harmaline in it was mixed with LSD at same time like I often do for an incredible journey (feels like a combo of LSD + mescaline as THH is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline in many ways). It would not be a fun journey like it normally is when using pure THH. Always be careful. Test your THH, even home-made to make sure it is pure.

Pure THH at 300mg results in neon-glowing visions with open or closed eyes in every one of my 44 total oral 300mg THH + 35mg sublingual harmine + 90mg HPBCD DMT held at exact same time under tongue journeys. These 44 times count the 2 subsequent re-doses every 1.5 hour for a strong 4.5 hour experience with super long afterglow beyond that.

Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the pure THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral pure THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. The combo of THH + DMT is like listening to music on high-dose cactus tea, heavenly.

Again with the sublingual: pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible.

Here is an example of the glowing CEV visions you see when using pure THH:

On my very first 300mg oral THH + sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT combined with 35mg sublingual harmine fb trip with 2 sublingual re-doses at each 1.5 hour mark (had not used DMT in several months)....all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the sublingual DMT/harmine and oral THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw that first night.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.
 
ava69
#350 Posted : 2/7/2022 1:10:18 PM

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ava69 wrote:
Quote:
Always test any THH you may acquire elsewhere. For example, there is a THH many are using that is made in China, with several reports of it not glowing blue when a bit is rubbed on a wet q-tip and smeared on a paper palate, and the plate held under blacklight. Pure tetrahydroharmine glows light blue like LSD under UV light, any green in the glow indicates unconverted harmaline. Five reports so far from nexus people saying it glows green instead of blue like pure THH even though the paperwork indicates over 98% pure. THH never converts back to harmaline once made and remains stable indefintely, so this tells me the initial synthesis on those particular batches was incomplete.

L-dreamer said:
Quote:
The THH I have does not glow blue (it did not come with a purity certificate), but it definitely is not harmine or harmaline since it does not give nausea at all. Taking more than 300 mg of it makes me a bit dizzy and that's it. And post experience I do feel the typical calmness or composure I got from previous aya drinks.

Thanks for the update. In answer to your question, using pure 300mg THH (which glows light blue) will most assuredly give you the glowing Ayahuasca visions consistently. Bottom of post #2 shows THH glow under blacklight. I would recommend making your own, take care, all the best.
 
L-dreamer
#351 Posted : 2/9/2022 3:48:07 PM

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Cotton Candy - the idiot-proof way to do sublingual DMT

So in these last days I have been wondering how I can improve the sublingual administration because I still could not understand how to do it properly for sure lift-off every time. A method is good as long as it is simple and requires less variables to tinker with.
Tried to be more careful when licking from the spoon, it did not work. I tried to use regular dental cotton pads to stop salivation, it did not work. Tried fancier saliva dental pads, they do a great job of absorbing the DMT solution but they trap the liquid inside. Tried to use a needless syringe to smear the solution on the mouth floor in front of a mirror and all I got were two misfires. What would happen most of the time is that much of the liquid would not stick to the mouth floor when the tongue was pressed on it. The tingling sensation the absorbing DMT does stimulates greatly salivation, so most of the goodies were floating in the mouth uselessly. Uselessly since from what I saw, only the mouth floor, tongue and lips can let the DMT pass.

I saw that every time after I lick the spoon, invariably a residue remains. This residue gets solid and sticky really fast. Sometimes it's a sugary dust, sometimes it's a clear transparent casing on the spoon bottom. My desk is littered with these solid bits of sugar DMT that have stuck to it. This solid DMT is not sticky to my skin now, but it is solidly attached to the table. So what if I get this form of the solid sugar under my tongue instead of the liquid? I got the idea to use some regular cotton bits to smear the liquid sugar DMT on it. If you look at the pic I have attached, the left most is the liquid sugar DMT, the center picture is a cotton ball rolled in the liquid, and the most right picture is the cotton ball left to rest and solidify further.

I used the cotton ball with the liquid DMT (similar with the one on the center) with great results yesterday:
- I kept the cotton ball under my tongue for 5 minutes, probably the experience would have been stronger if I kept it longer
- you don't have to stress about not salivating. You will produce saliva, it will buildup like mad but it's ok, it's role is now to facilitate the passage of dmt from the cotton ball to the tongue
- so the only thing you have to care about now is to just not swallow any saliva, just hold the cotton ball down even if it pools a lot, no need to stress about it
- after you spit out the cotton ball and the saliva, be careful since swallowing the next saliva that forms in the next minutes will prolong a bit the comedown
So with the last experience I had the fast comeup of the DMT fireworks, but after an hour I landed in a deep harmala headspace and the visuals subsided mostly. I had the harmala tracers where the vision was wobbly and also the clunky movement, but no nausea at all. Mentally I was fine but everything I listened from recorded voices on the computer or talking with someone IRL, it was as if the 1.25-1.5 speed button on youtube was pushed. One of the most peculiar effects I experienced from harmalas. That too passed, overall I was a bit exhausted after the trip but had no trouble going to sleep.
Now next day I have felt all day a glowing calmness, as if nothing could mentally imbalance me. It wasn't indifference or euphoria, but a clean and grounded tranquility.

So I think I finally nailed the method reliably. I'll take a break for a few days but next week I will try the solid DMT on cotton that is resting now (from the most right picture). I want to see if it absorbs better as a solid instead of the cotton with the sugar DMT still in a liquid form (which in itself is amazing), and if it is a way to preserve the DMT for medium term use.
I can imagine all sorts of things you could do with this sugar form of DMT. You can realistically make lolipops from it, tic tacs. Flakes of this sugar DMT can go in a chocolate for deep pharmahuasca experiences. You could make cotton rolls with carefully calculated dosages and share it with others, for light, medium, or strong experiences.
L-dreamer attached the following image(s):
sdmt.png (996kb) downloaded 159 time(s).
 
starway7
#352 Posted : 2/10/2022 10:54:53 PM

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Hi L-dreamer...

Are you saying that dmt worked sublingually because you put it in a cotton ball?

What kind of liquid was the dmt suspended in? alcohol?...wt vinegar?...

Did you use the HPBCD?


Ive suspended dmt in ear plug foam for sublingual use...didnt have much luck...
 
L-dreamer
#353 Posted : 2/11/2022 12:31:57 AM

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starway7 wrote:
Hi L-dreamer...

Are you saying that dmt worked sublingually because you put it in a cotton ball?

What kind of liquid was the dmt suspended in? alcohol?...wt vinegar?...

Did you use the HPBCD?


Ive suspended dmt in ear plug foam for sublingual use...didnt have much luck...


Yes I used the HPBCD, I am using DMT now in the way ava described it at the start of the thread, with the harmalas and all that. And I will be using any kind of oral or sublingual DMT only complexed to to HPBCD, it does wonders, you don't need anything else.
I am saying it will work surely sublingually if you put it in a small cotton ball .The point is you need something to hold the gooey liquid in place or else you lose it in the saliva and will not absorb in other parts of the mouth. You know it will work when it will start stinging and prickling the mucosa of the mouth floor and the tongue.
 
physics envy
#354 Posted : 2/12/2022 12:00:46 AM

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L-dreamer wrote:
And I will be using any kind of oral or sublingual DMT only complexed to to HPBCD, it does wonders, you don't need anything else.


Hello L-dreamer! Have you found that the complexed DMT is more potent than when non-complexed?

I haven't had a chance to do another oral test with just the harmalas and non-complexed dmt to compare to my last complexed 60mg dmt test yet, but hoping to try again soon.
Salvia quid enthusiast
 
L-dreamer
#355 Posted : 2/12/2022 1:44:53 AM

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physics envy wrote:


Have you found that the complexed DMT is more potent than when non-complexed?


I haven't had any proper tries with a full dose of freebase DMT that reaches my stomach to make a proper comparison. But the few times I swallow a bit of DMT from the sublingual route (which was always 60 mg that is spit out after 5 minutes, I never manage to hold it 15 min like ava does) it seems to absorb very fast (your stomach feels a bit funny, but very subtle) and prolongs the initial sublingual trip (like a comet tail would be a good metaphor). Previous pharmahuasca experiences without HPBCD had the unpredictable onset, unreliable dosage effect, or intense vomiting after the DMT hit the stomach.
I can presume that HPBCD makes oral DMT faster, more potent, and less nauseous, probably ava can report better on this but I will see if I can test this in the next weeks.
 
ava69
#356 Posted : 2/12/2022 9:52:28 AM

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Keep up the great work L-dreamer and physics envy. Love your pics L-dreamer. If cotton enhanced works for you, then by all means continue to use it. My preference is also the sublingual HPBCD dmt, seems to always be some five times stronger than oral, like L-dreamer states: no delirium, very clear and crisp, zero dizziness, zero nausea, when combined with 35mg sublingual harmine and 300mg oral very pure tetrahydroharmine, perfect experience, intensely beautiful and clear just like mescaline. No words to describe. For music lovers like myself, it is a joy to listen to music for hours on end, sounds heavenly just like high dose cactus tea. Profound music enhancement, open eyed beauty infinite, abundant neon colors, the most beautiful teaching Ayahuasca visions, the divine spiritual insights gained are worth the admission alone.

Dirt cheap experience compared to the rare and expensive cactus which I also love dearly. 90mg HPBCD dmt sublingual + 35mg sublingual harmine + 300mg pure THH is like 600mg of mescaline. Intensely beautiful experience.

Taking 200mg of oral harmine + 300mg of oral THH + the sublingual HPBCD DMT taken 1 hour later is an experience so incredible and strong, still no nausea and dizziness for me:

In my trip diary that June night, I documented this oral harmine + oral THH + 90mg sublingual HPBCD dmt around 1 hour later as the most powerful sublingual experience of my life. Not only was there no dizziness or nausea but no anxiety as well, very impressed. For reasons posted by Dr. Narang on post #1, the sublingual HPBCD DMT was many factors more powerful than any dosage of oral HPBCD DMT. It was many factors stronger, around x5 times. It was so powerful that I saw curtains of neon-colored visuals in the open doorway when I looked to my right. Everything in all directions was surrounded by brilliant neon-colored rainbow reflections, the euphoria and music enhancement was very powerful.

Open-eyed beauty was beyond belief, divine and infinite. The tracers were so powerful, that they went on forever like a hall of mirrors into the distance, and instead of there just being multiples of my hands when I waved them, there were beautiful colored fractals inside the tracer smears. One hour after the sublingual HPBCD DMT started to work, it was still as strong visually & transcendence wise as when it started. Only at the 1.5 hour point did the DMT ween down in strength several levels.

The 200mg of harmine was so powerful, that I continued by taking a 2nd dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT again 2 hours later after the 1st dose, and it again worked just as strong as the first dose. With closed eyes were seen brightly colored Ayahuasca visions, in my diary I noted that I saw close to a hundred rapidly changing visions from Egyptian scenery to elaborate art carvings in stone, way beyond 4k in detail. This resulted in a +5 strength Shulgin level journey with life changing consequences.

The harmine having a half-life of from 1 to 3 hours, did not die off until around 5 hours later, so each time I took a re-dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT for the evening, it continued to work very strongly. I highly recommend this approach, and plan to use the oral harmine again with the oral THH many times again in the future, but only using the HPBCD DMT sublingually as noted above. Take care, all the best...peace, love and music.

Pic: 75 grams of pure tetrahydroharmine, will last me a lifetime, more valuable to me than any gold, never depart with. Refer to post #12 on how to make if interested. Pure THH glows blue under blacklight when a bit dabbed onto vinegar soaked cue tip and smeared on plate under blacklight, serpents are the manifest Spirit of Ayahuasca.
ava69 attached the following image(s):
very pure THH.PNG (281kb) downloaded 98 time(s).
THH.PNG (344kb) downloaded 103 time(s).
pic 3.PNG (2,052kb) downloaded 98 time(s).
 
igorcarajo
#357 Posted : 2/13/2022 6:41:41 AM
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On the topic of THH I wonder what happens if instead of separating the harmine from harmaline and then adding zinc to the harmaline to convert it to THH, one would add zinc to the harmine/harmaline mix. Would the harmaline convert to THH and the harmine remain intact?
 
murklan
#358 Posted : 2/13/2022 10:47:10 AM

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igorcarajo wrote:
On the topic of THH I wonder what happens if instead of separating the harmine from harmaline and then adding zinc to the harmaline to convert it to THH, one would add zinc to the harmine/harmaline mix. Would the harmaline convert to THH and the harmine remain intact?


Yes I believe this is true. I've only done a magnesium ribbon reduction of a harmine/harmaline mix I've extracted myself. And the resulting powder still has a bit of bitternes (but a lot less then the un-reduced mix) and it also glows greenish in UV. Indicating that thera are harmine in there. I don't mind that but I'm anyway thinking of ways to separate it afterwards.
 
ava69
#359 Posted : 2/13/2022 3:45:25 PM

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igorcarajo said:
Quote:
On the topic of THH I wonder what happens if instead of separating the harmine from harmaline and then adding zinc to the harmaline to convert it to THH, one would add zinc to the harmine/harmaline mix. Would the harmaline convert to THH and the harmine remain intact?
Great question igorcarajo. I don't recommend doing it that way as when harmine is reacted with teeny tiny hydrogen gas bubbles whether from zinc in vinegar or any other method (I've done this before to see what happens) it does remain as harmine but the harmine will give off a strange smell or odor indefinitely as if the reaction has some minor unknown influence on the alkaloid. Even left out in open air, it will continue to "stink the very faint strange odor". You also will not know how much harmine is mixed in with the THH making it impossible to dose correctly. The harmine when used this way also seems to impart a strange side effect of occasional minor drainage down the throat of flim, don't recommend the resulting "weird harmine". It's best not to have large amounts of harmine mixed in with the harmaline during the conversion to THH. It's not much work to separate the harmine from the harmaline with extreme purity using 10% janitorial ammonium hydroxide found at some hardware stores. Post #12 cover this. The big box stores do not carry the 10% ammonium hydroxide but I am able to find it at an old mom and pop hardware store near the lake where I live, and it can be ordered on line. It comes in 1 gallon containers for a few dollars, pic on post #12. Keep in mind harmine and THH both glow blue when a bit is dabbed onto a cue tip pre-wetted with vinegar and smeared on a paper plate and held under blacklight. Harmaline glows greenish.
 
igorcarajo
#360 Posted : 2/13/2022 4:46:53 PM
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ava69 wrote:
Great question igorcarajo. I don't recommend doing it that way as when harmine is reacted with zinc (I've done this before to see what happens) it does remain as harmine but the harmine will give off a strange smell or odor indefinitely as if the reaction has some minor unknown influence on the alkaloid. Even left out in open air, it will continue to "stink the strange odor". You also will not know how much harmine is mixed in with the THH making it impossible to dose correctly. The harmine when used this way also seems to impart a strange side effect of minor drainage down the throat of flim, don't recommend the resulting "weird harmine". It's best not to have large amounts of harmine mixed in with the harmaline during the conversion to THH. It's not much work to separate the harmine from the harmaline with extreme purity using 10% janitorial ammonium hydroxide found at some hardware stores. Post #12 cover this. The big box stores do not carry the 10% ammonium hydroxide but I am able to find it at an old mom and pop hardware store near the lake where I live, and it can be ordered on line. It comes in 1 gallon containers for a few dollars, pic on post #12. Keep in mind harmine and THH both glow blue when a bit is dabbed onto a cue tip pre-wetted with vinegar and smeared on a paper plate and held under blacklight. Harmaline glows greenish.

Thanks. Why do you prefer to use janitorial ammonium hydroxide as opposed to something like NaOH? Also, what do you think about using sodium bicarbonate to precipitate the harmine, and then use a stronger base to precipitate the harmaline? That way you wouldn’t have to have a pH meter, calibrate it, etc.
 
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