Three votes for the China made THH glowing green/yellow (starway, voidmatrix, shroombee).

As I've shared before and according to what I've read elsewhere, a small amount of harmaline will cause harmine to glow green/yellow instead of blue. I assume this is also the case with THH? We're also assuming the China THH is manufactured in such a manner that it is supposed to glow blue when it is 100% pure. This might not be the case. The China THH may naturally glow green/yellow and thus we're getting anxious over nothing because we don't have the proper reference data. I do feel comfortable that my green/yellow glowing THH is mostly THH, as I've taken 200 mg to enhance DMT and mescaline. If my THH had any appreciable amount of harmaline, I believe I would feel pretty nauseous.

To best preserve my THH, I'm storing it in a sealed mason jar in the freezer with a bunch of desiccant packets to absorb moisture (silica gel and activated alumina). I take the jar out of the freezer at least a couple hours before opening the jar to let it warm to room temperature, thus ensuring no condensation from warm room air forms on the interior walls of the jar or on the Liftmode THH glass container.

I fail to see how differences in manufacturing method will change the fluorescence colour of different samples of the same compound other than, in this case, through traces of harmaline or a similar impurity with overwhelmingly powerful yellow-green fluorescence.

Was there a TLC test somewhere back in the thread? Testing all the yellow-green fluorescing samples would be instructive at this point.

It seems fairly safe to say that THH will slowly oxidise to harmaline without some fairly stringent precautions to protect the material, as outlined by shroombee. It's very tempting to link the labile optical inversion of THH with this ease of oxidation. Both processes can occur quite readily courtesy of the tertiary hydrogen atom at position 1 of the betacarboline moiety.

I called ..liftmode.. and they admitted.. impropper storage of THH can cause it to turn back into halmaline...

If it was incorectly stored it was damaged merchandise...as i see it...\\something like sending me a bushel of rotton apples that were stored in the sun...

Plus... just it comming from china...doesnt make me comfortable ...


You may be right asuming it still ok as THH ...but as black light test goes...blue is blue...and yellow is yellow...

the book says it should be ...[ glow blue].. and it doesnt... for what thats worth..

I can extract freebase from cheap rue seeds ...and it will glow very much blue and be all natural and atleast i can be shure of what it is because ... i extracted it...but something comming from china you cant be 100 mpercent shure...

My chemistry knowledge is basically non-existent. Are there different isomers (for example) that would account for the difference in fluorescence color? Or is the common name THH but that actually refers to different compounds? Like we see hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin advertised for sale and it's actually 2-HPBCD. Also, China THH is brown whereas garage lab THH is white. Any ideas why and how it might relate to fluorescence color?

When garage lab white (blue-glow) THH reverts back to harmaline, does the color change to brown?

Moderator edit: Please do not post pictures of pricing of online harmalas

here are some photos of THH and Harmalines....powder colors..

also photos of a whole rue seed extraction using high proof alcohol..next to black light...

It's not unusual for degraded material to take on a brownish coloration, and my experience with harmala extracts is that they tend to be brownish. I would have to prepare some white THH before I could 100% definitively confirm this but I'd say the inference is valid.

Super summary, in conclusion:

1. HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca & oral trip report
2. On the importance of THH (tetrahydroharmine) 2nd highest ingredient in true Caapi-based traditional Ayahuasca.
3. Example of the importance of THH to the journey, brightly colored snake visions.
4. Why DMT freebase and DMT salts used orally never seem to reach beyond a mild +3 while oral HPBCD DMT easily reaches a +5 Shulgin strength.
5. Want to extend the journey?

Page 3 post #53: How HPBCD DMT was discovered with the help of Ayahuasca, encounters with death & depression.

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(1) HPBCD DMT AYAHUASCA:

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My 2 cents is that I have tetrahydroharmine I made myself that is 10 years old, and it still glows blue under blacklight when smeared on a plate using a wet cue tip, never had it degrade back to harmaline. It is very stable in my experience. This THH was stored at room temp in a drawer. It's not hard to make sure all your harmaline converts 100% to THH, just follow instructions on post #12.

I believe many will find the sublingual sting from HPBCD DMT too much to tolerate, therefore I suggest just using the HPBCD DMT orally (it is many factors stronger than dmt freebase and dmt salts used orally in my experience, and I've taken Ayahuasca over 80 times now) by combining it with 200mg harmine and an amount of THH around 150mg to begin in a simple 1oz hot water tea. The 1oz tea goes down in 1 gulp and there is virtually no taste at all, as the HPBCD helps mask the freebase encapsulated DMT quite well. There is also no nausea, it's super-strong and all-encompassing just like the Hawaiian leaf...it's very clean!

When you add your spoon full of HPBCD DMT to the 1oz hot water in the coffee mug, it will turn 100% clear when it hits the hot water.

(1) What I like to do if I am "on the go" and intend to take the Ayahuasca out in nature, is add the spoon full of HPBCD complexed DMT to 1oz of very hot black coffee along with the harmine and THH, mix it all together with added 100mg of crushed vit C to help the harmalas dissolve should they be in freebase form, and store this 1oz "super Ayahuasca coffee" in a "redson mini 7oz stainless steel water bottle" which retails for price of movie ticket, it will stay hot for a long time until ready to drink. There is no nausea and great for outdoors in nature.

You can also get by with less harmine: I would recommend using 2.0mg/kg of your bodyweight in harmine just as Jonathan Ott uses, this means 180mg harmine if you weigh 200 pounds (90 kg), or only 160mg harmine if you weigh 176 pounds.

It may even be possible to get by using only 120mg harmine fb (1.5mg/kg) if you weigh 80kg or 176lbs, see experiment #12 from Jonathan Ott below. He weighs 80kg. I will be looking into this. This would mean only 135mg harmine fb if you weigh 200lbs (90kg).

HPBCD DMT is many factors stronger & all encompassing than normal DMT freebase or DMT salts, less harmine may work to activate it. Experiment starting with 180mg harmine fb if you weigh 200lbs (160mg if you weigh 176lbs), and work your way down if you want to 135mg harmine fb if you weigh 200lbs (120mg if you weigh 176lbs).

Moderate and Strong activating amounts of harmine (pg 250 of 639): "Pharmacotheon: Entheogenic drugs, their plant sources & history" by Jonathan Ott:

If the harmine and THH are in freebase form, then simply just add 100mg or so of crushed vitamin C to help them absorb into the hot water tea, simply consume this 1oz hot tea with mixed 3 ingredients all at the exact same time just as the Shaman's do. I have had extremely powerful experiences with zero nausea this way that are identical to using from 30 to 40g of hawaiian psychotria, which has become extinct over the last 3 years due to diversion to the numerous Ayahuasca centers in South America. I have found this tea to be at zero nausea whereas the psychotria tea can be heavy on the stomach for some time while it absorbs.

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70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD oral Ayahuasca report, +5 Shulgin scale

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The HPBCD complexed DMT experiment was a success...I took the 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg of plain HPBCD all kneaded/scraped/crushed using end of another spoon...and mixed on a spoon for 2 minutes with 0.500 milliliter of VERY HOT near boiling water (around 10 drops of water). What I do is heat up a bit of water in a coffee cup in microwave & draw up drops of it using pipette.

I read using very hot water speeds & aids the mixing of the HPBCD to host drug. Be sure to use your muscles to crush, mash & scrape the HPBCD into the freebase DMT back and forth really hard in the 10 drops near boiling hot water using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, as mixing or stirring alone is not good enough. Kneading is how scientist prepare these complexes, see pic7 Ofloxacin study. You can only use DMT freebase, only the freebase is able to complex or trap itself inside the inner hydrophobic (water-fearing) HPBCD cavity.

Use 1:7 gram ratio DMT to HPBCD or 1:8 gram ratio if using the more common 2-hydroxy PBCD, this keeps the HPBCD to DMT at a 1:1 molar ratio. You can order 1 kilogram of the plain HPBCD from China for price of 4 movie tickets, it will last a lifetime for you and your friends.

I added the 0.5ml spoon full HPBCD DMT solution to 2oz of 120 degree hot water...this then immediately turned into 100% transparent water when it hit the hot liquid in the pyrex cup...This was stored in fridge until use...then when I was ready, the 2oz clear transparent liquid HPBCD DMT water solution, once re-heated up in pyrex pot on stove, to this was then added 200mg harmine + 250mg THH and also 150mg of pure ascorbic acid (vit C) to help dissolve the freebase harmine + thh.

I gulped it down in one shot...there was virtually no taste! I think the HPBCD completely masked the taste of the nasty DMT...I was shocked...took it all together at same time at 3:30, I'm writing this 3 hours later.

It came on exactly like 30 grams of hawaiian psychotria! there was no difference between this and the leaf brew, again I was shocked...it gripped me powerfully, heavy tryptamine buzz and high frequency. The THH already imparts a body frequency buzz + DMT tryptamine buzz = amazing amplified body frequency.

A vibrating neon colored fortress like a magnetic field surrounded me in the room, it shined off of every object similar to a UV blacklight glow...this neon visual vibration appeared all around me, given off by everything around me. The vibrational frequency field reminded me of the tractor beam in Star Trek when they would transport. I've experienced this same phenomena with past journeys involving 30 to 35 grams of potent Hawaiian psychotria...but never with plain freebase DMT or DMT salts before, only again with this HPBCD DMT.

I had to remain in one spot sitting as it was so strong for 1 hour straight, the walls in the room filled with 3-D ish like honeycomb orange & brown geometrics that appeared to bulge slightly off the surface, like the inside of a bee hive, neon colors were abundant, heavy tracers...the beauty all around me was infinite, beautiful CEV's (spinning and dancing or constantly morphing geometrics) and OEV...I was amazed to say the least.

In conclusion, I am impressed with this route of administration via sublingual or oral.

During the oral Ayahuasca journey (200mg harmine + 250mg THH + 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD) for the first hour, all objects glowed or shined as if in caught in a neon colored magnetic transporter beam.

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(2) On the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH):

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1. Part 10 of this paper: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. TIHKAL THH entry also achieved 75% yield. Post also shows how to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca.

2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank by some of the more advanced members for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT.

professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):

At 300mg of THH all by itself, there are heavy open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes, and hours of closed eye visions that start with colored sparkles and fireworks (red, green, yellow, blue) that dart around and progress into full-fledged way-beyond 4k visions with eyes closed that are not only static but often animated like slow and high speed movies, but all one monochrome color like green or blue for me, when you add DMT, the visions then become colored and patterning on animals for example will display their associated colors, DMT also adds on to or builds on top the THH visions, expanding them, but the teachings and insights & visions are credited to the Vine, just as Gayle Highpine writes in linked paper.

300mg Tetrahydroharmine (THH) teaching visions all by itself:

At 9pm on one night, took another 100mg of THH, for a total of 350mg of THH for afternoon & night, before I fell asleep, I watched dream-like monochrome imagery (usually always in green or blue for me) as the THH was still working...for around 45 minutes I viewed mind-blowing vistas--grand architecture and cities, a bookshelf full of ancient books, a view of the gardens in front of what looked like Versailles, France.

I traveled down a street in Midieval period where I saw beautiful women walking along the street, I could make out the houses & markets along the street. Many of these visions are like slow speed movies being played, way beyond 4k, highly detailed...true Ayahuasca visions...this always happens when I take at least 300mg or more of tetrahydroharmine during the late afternoon/early night. This is one of the best parts of the journey imho.

I've taken 300mg of THH on it's own many times and for hours with eyes closed I view endless dream-like visions, like slow and high speed movies being played for 2 hours...totally unlike normal dreams, she seems to tap into the "Akashic record" of the universe, the ether where all events, past, present, and future are stored...she shows you artwork, architecture, nature, culture, fantasy, history, the future, spiritual, supernatural. The visions are also characterized by the extraordinary beauty that they manifest.

Tetrahydroharmine was called by one researcher "the tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" to give an example of her remarkable visionary properties. She is an isomer of a hormonal-like compound found in the brain naturally, she is what gives Ayahuasca her telapathine or telethapy properties and CEV dream-like visionary power.

I agree that 300mg THH in Caapi is just as visual as 100mg harmaline (as reported in TIHKAL), but without the nausea and dizziness, but it's not especially visual until say 250 to 300mg, then it gives one 1.5 to 2 hours of incredible closed eye realistic visions, this places it very high on the "psychedelic periodic table" for visions compared to just about any other entheogen.

It's like entering a university, she teaches you for hours with not only sequential visions one after another, but visions seen in continuous slow and high speed movies. She tells you a story for a long period. There is a theme to it all each time, the beautiful visions never repeat session to session. I only rarely go beyond 300mg THH, as a little dizziness sets in above 300mg for sure. No dizziness at 250mg, only a tiny bit at 300mg.

Several weeks ago, after drinking 300mg tetrahydroharmine, I saw the interior decorations of palaces, the checkered floors, the beautiful windows and furniture, the winding stair cases, I was blown away.

I've seen sacred temples for religious worship, beautiful animals and super fine women, birds of all kinds, even the lost city of Atlantis, I was taken in for a bird's eye view, zooming in from way above to all the way down into the city center.

Caapi tells a story when you drink it with eyes closed, she teaches you things, the most beautiful "realistic visions" that no other entheogen comes close to showing you, these realistic visions go on forever with Caapi, I can recline and watch for 2 hours or more the visions, the visions are quite powerful for the first 45 minutes. You can take additional THH hours later to bring back the visions again for another 45 minutes, the doses are additive.

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(3) Example of the importance of THH to the journey, brightly colored snake visions:

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From 5-19-21: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD sublingual report dosed x 3 times every 1.5 hour

Full Journey trip report:

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work. The HPBCD complexed DMT works extremely well, the outer water soluble sugary like tasting HPBCD keeps the freebase DMT trapped inside it's non-polar cone, so as the complex sits under the tongue for 15 minutes...

...you feel a mild to moderate sting for around 15 minutes as the HPBCD releases the DMT directly into the bloodstream from the mucosa membrane under the tongue (only 100 microns thick) as the freebase, only as the freebase will it reach from the bloodstream to the brain with maximum effects. I don't have all the answers, I only know it works extremely well. The tongue is completely fine after, and it's as if nothing happened the next day, 100% no scarring or burning, totally normal.

Be sure to press down with tongue the whole time to trap the sticky complex in the sublingual mucosa.

Give this a try...follow 2 step instructions, 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD (use 480mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) with 2 minutes stirring, mashing & kneading all of it hard (to force the DMT into the tornado like HPBCD cone) using your muscles on a spoon with 10 drops very hot water, put bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere...and hold for 15 minutes in the sublingual mucosa, begins to work in 22 minutes...at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out any saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing, for me this has been less than 1/4oz or around less than 15ml saliva. As I gently spit out the saliva, I will keep any tiny residual amount still trapped or pressed down under tongue for another 5 minutes usually, but I have noticed most of the time, it all dissolves within 15 minutes.

...and is VERY STRONG...I experienced 90 minutes of very strong effects, pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible...feels identical to if I had taken 60mg DMT complexed to HPBCD orally with 200mg harmine with 300mg THH, of course I always take 300mg THH orally any time I do this using the sublingual DMT.

I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg.

The effects were so INCREDIBLE, I RE-DOSED 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times the same night, every 1.5 hours...it was the bomb...I was in 7th heaven.

...never before have I had such insane visuals all night long...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the DMT and THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw the other night...I was blown away, and will be thinking about this for a very long time...this sublingual DMT along with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before is my absolute favorite...there is no nausea...I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea...out of this world good...I had non-stop closed eye visions all night long, insane visions...totally blown away.

Remember, I took 300mg of THH once early on, then every 1.5 hour I took 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg of HPBCD sticky liquid under my tongue for 15 minutes held...so I took it x 3 times...one of the most visionary entheogenic experiences of my life.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.

They seem to possess divine knowledge that humans were not supposed to have been privileged to, but the serpents gifted this knowledge to humankind.

I recently found a 1.5 hour video on Amazon prime entitled "Ancient Alien Origins" which is all about this ancient alien flying serpent or dragon entity which is found in all religions of the world & "BAM, Builders of the Ancient Mysteries".

Return of the Serpent & of Eden:

https://earthmedicine201...-of-the-serpent-of-eden/
hxxps://earthmedicine2015.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/return-of-the-serpent-of-eden/

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(4) HPBCD DMT outperforms freebase DMT and DMT salts used orally in Ayahuasca tea by many factors

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Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 120mg) with harmine and THH pharmahuasca at least a dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength.

After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! Most of the experiences were +4 to +5, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt.

This agrees with what I read from clearlight:

Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:

Downwardsfromzero in the Ayahuasca thread responded:

The HPBCD complexed freebase DMT used orally in an Ayahuasca tea is VERY STRONG in comparison, it is just like the Hawaiian psychotria, all encompassing & super strong. It is more potent, colorful, and clear, just like the actual leaf. The DMT freebase and DMT salts are inferior in comparison to HPBCD DMT. You can only complex HPBCD to freebase DMT.

See Pic7 below: Example from the scientific literature: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. DMT freebase and DMT salts also have poor body absorption, but when freebase DMT is complexed to HPBCD, the oral absorption strength changes from mild to strong.

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(5) Want to extend the journey?

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After the oral Ayahuasca wears off, and you feel you want to re-visit or extend the journey, then that would be a good time to take some HPBCD DMT sublingually under the tongue for 15 minutes. This way you don't have to take more oral harmine again to re-activate the HPBCD DMT. Additional doses of oral harmine can weigh down the body introducing some nausea and dizziness.

I like to pre-prepare a 90mg DMT dose complexed to 630mg HPBCD (use 720mg is using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) in 10 drops boiling hot water on a spoon and suck up this 0.5ml (10 drop) complexed solution into a 3ml syringe (100 x 3ml pack of syringes dirt cheap on-line) for storage in room or freezer (defrosts quickly at room temp) and squirt this under tongue when ready to re-dose. This gives me +5 Shulgin strength level.

This sublingual HPBCD DMT re-dose will bring back the Ayahuasca for another 1.5 hour, especially since the THH has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours, and the 200mg or so of harmine you took earlier will keep the overall MAO defenses lowered in the body for a good 5 to 6 hours, so feel free to re-dose more sublingual HPBCD DMT at least two more times total for the evening if you feel up to it. It will still work as strong as the original oral HPBCD DMT dose. This way you can get 4.5 hours or more total strong journey trip time. I like to do it this way.

Stay true to yourself. Peace, Love & music.
www.friskyradio.com

Pic 1: my yearly morning glory grow. Yes, I trip hard on fresh from the vine seeds, which I vacuum pack freeze using a foodsaver to keep high potency indefinitely. See post #8, I extract into 2oz just opened cold sherry wine high in acetaldehyde. The Mayans and Aztecs also extracted into alcoholic beverages as they discovered this would extract the 5 different stimulating LSD-like alkaloids, this is covered in post #8 as well.

Pic 2: morning glory easy extraction with materials list, all steps illustrated with pics, covered on post #8. 2 bridgesii cactus seen as well, but I now trip using PC san pedro, as bridgesii has become just too rare, and I've tripped extremely hard on PC san pedro tea (yes, you can trip very hard on PC san pedro so long as you use enough) for over 10 hours!

Pic 3: The late great DM Turner on mescaline, I agree with everything he saids, have taken cactus tea over 200 times over course of many years, and Caapi-based Ayahuasca over 80 times.

Pic 4: 2 step method for making HPBCD complexed DMT, many factors stronger than DMT freebase or DMT salts when used orally in Ayahuasca tea, easy to reach a Shulgin +5 strength, while DMT freebase and salts (70 to 120mg) never seem to reach beyond a mild +3 in over a dozen experiments.

Pic 5: 158mg THH is the average amount found in one cup of Caapi-based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank for evening by some more advanced members, they are consuming 300mg of THH.

Pic 6: Gayle Highpine on becoming a Shaman: http://www.ayahuasca.com...the-origin-of-ayahuasca/

Pic 7: Example from the scientific literature: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. DMT freebase and DMT salts also have poor body absorption, but when freebase DMT is complexed to HPBCD, the oral absorption strength changes from mild to strong.

Pic 8: Priestess of Quetzalcoatl. Gayle Highpine "Snakes, the most common vision on Ayahuasca, are considered the manifest spirit of the vine." I totally agree, see part 2.

pic 9: Aztec & Mayan Quetzalcoatl myth

pic 10: See (1) at top of this post, redson mini 7oz stainless steel water bottle holds my 1 oz Super Ayahuasca coffee, keeps hot for a very long time, for when I want to travel and take her out in nature, zero nausea.

Pics for guests who can't log in: https://drugs-forum.com/...6477/page-3#post-2106944

In what way ?...does the HPBCD improve an oral trip/?

I thought it was supposed to be used sublingually?

Is it safe to take HPBCD orally?

rue and spice alone.. will also make for ...an oral... or smoked aya trip...

.... just curious... what is the benifit of taking HPBCD orally?

Thanks ava69 for all that you've shared.

In your answer for #3, I didn't clearly understand why oral HPBCD DMT would be any stronger than a regular (non-HPBCD) oral dose of DMT.

Have you tried a recent comparison between the two?

I've been practicing with low dose pharmahuasca meditation the last several weeks. I've got a good handle on how 100 mg harmine plus 30 mg oral DMT salt feels for me. I can try the HPBCD option. Can I do HPBCD with DMT acetate, or does it have to be DMT freebase?

Hi Shroombee and starway7, thanks for comments. Shroombee, would recommend raising the 100mg harmine to 200mg harmine for full RIMA inhibition once you get beyond practice stage. Yes Starway7, the HPBCD can be used orally as well as sublingually, completely safe either way.

Yes, HPBCD complexed DMT is many factors stronger orally than DMT freebase or DMT salts used orally in an Ayahuasca tea. See part 3. Yes, I have done recent comparisons, again see part 3. You can only use DMT freebase, only the freebase is able to complex or trap itself inside the inner hydrophobic (water-fearing) HPBCD cavity.

Pic7 above: Example from the scientific literature: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. DMT freebase and DMT salts also have poor body absorption, but when freebase DMT is complexed to HPBCD, the oral absorption strength changes from mild to strong.

Downwardsfromzero responded in The Ayahuasca thread:
ava69 wrote:
"This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here - thanks for posting."

Post #207 is super summary above.

[[ DMT freebase and DMT salts also have poor body absorption, but when freebase DMT is complexed to HPBCD, the oral absorption strength changes from mild to strong.]]


Does this mean freebase dmt will work oraly if complexed to HPBCD? WITHOUT A MAIO??

or is a MAOI still needed??????????????????

And..didnt You try the newer HPBCD that we have now.... [a while back?] and reported it works as well as your older HPBCD?


And you say HPBCD itself is safe to take oraly?

Thanks for questions Starway7.

Starway7 wrote:
"Does this mean freebase dmt will work orally if complexed to HPBCD? WITHOUT A MAIO??"
No, you still need the RIMA (200mg harmine) for it to work. When you complex the DMT to the HPBCD, it just becomes super-powerful when used orally in a tea you make. What I do is heat up 1oz of water, add 200mg of harmine, add 150 to 250mg of THH, add 100mg of crushed vit C to help the harmalas absorb should they be in freebase form, and add the spoon full (0.5 ml) of HPBCD DMT to the water, stir it all up, and drink it all at once just as the Shaman's do for a powerful Ayahuasca experience.

Myself (dozen experiments), a handfull of people from Clearlight, and Julian Palmer (see part 4 of post #207) have all confirmed that the actual "leaf brew" easily achieves a +5 Shulgin strength when used in Ayahuasca (myself x 65 times), but the freebase DMT or DMT salt crystals are mild at best when used in an Ayahuasca brew due to POOR BODY ABSORPTION, typically only achieving a +3 mild experience. However, HPBCD complexed DMT also achieves a +5 Shulgin strength when used in an Ayahuascsa brew, just like the actual leaf, this is revolutionary! And is the whole point of this entire paper. New discovery.

"or is a MAOI still needed??????????????????Wut?"
Yes, you still need the RIMA (200mg harmine) for it to work orally.

"And..didnt You try the newer HPBCD that we have now.... [a while back?] and reported it works as well as your older HPBCD?"
Yes, plain HPBCD (1 kilo is dirt cheap from China) works just as well as the more common 2-hydroxy PBCD, no difference.

"And you say HPBCD itself is safe to take orally? "
Yes. Pharmaceutical scientist have been using HPBCD for a long time now to make many poorly absorbed oral drugs absorb way better.

Example from the scientific literature: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. DMT freebase and DMT salts also have poor body absorption, but when freebase DMT is complexed to HPBCD, the oral absorption strength changes from mild to strong.

There was a time when I extracted the DMT from a kilogram of Hawaiian leaf, and was so very disappointed that I did not leave the leaf the way it was, as when I used the extracted DMT in doses from 70mg to 120mg over a period of many months with the harmine + THH pharmahuasca tea, it was always "just +3 Shulgin level mild" and never was I able to achieve the original bad ass very special super-strong & all-encompassing journeys the original "boiled down leaf" used to give me at 2oz. The HPBCD complexed DMT has brought back the original super-strong & all-encompassing journeys the leaf used to give me, and this is a good thing as Hawaiian psychotria (very strong) has been extinct for many years now. It used to be plentiful until the Ayahuasca centers became very numerous in South America, that's when the diversion of the leaf to the centers instead of for wholesale began to take place, never to be seen again on the normal market. This is all explained on post #53 along with the Climate change issue Ayahuasca is taking very seriously.

Post #207 above is Super Summary. If you need something to print out to follow, these few pages would be it.

Thanks for the suggestion, ava69.

Interesting that I'm doing oral pharmahuasca using only 100 mg harmine freebase and 25-30 mg DMT (freebase or jimjam) to get a Shulgin level 3 trip. After dosing both at the same time, it's 30-40 minutes until CEV starts, then ~40 minutes CEV - sometimes with a lot going on so I might get a little dizzy (but no warping of thoughts or confusion of fantasy versus reality), then about an hour afterglow before I feel like getting up to meditate for an hour.

For me, 100 mg harmine seems to be full RIMA. Although I'll try 200 mg soon to see how that affects things.

The oral HPBCD DMT is intriguing. Specifically, why would it be so much stronger. Perhaps the HPBCD protects the DMT from stray MAO enzymes as well as increasing absorption?

Shroombee said:
Hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin improves DMT's dissolution by imparting an environment of improved hydrophilicity, it's also possible as you mention that not only is it increasing bioavailability, but is also stabilizing the compound to chemical and enzymatic degradation and can affect permeability through biological membranes under certain circumstances, see part 4 of post #207 for more on this, attached paper on this as well. About 40% of currently marketed drugs are poorly soluble, it's a widespread problem.

Shroombee, if you can achieve +3 Shulgin level strength by using only 100mg harmine, then by all means continue to use that amount. That sounds great! Jonathan Ott in his book "Ayahuasca analogues" stated he needed at least 160mg for minimum results, and 180mg for better results....most like myself need at least 200mg.

Post #207 has been revised & includes a 6 page summary of everything I've learned over the past 4 months working with HPBCD DMT.

Thanks for your experiences Shroombee, you gave me an idea to try out, using possible lower doses of harmine freebase.

Page 174 of "Pharmahuasca: Human pharmacology of oral dmt plus harmine": "It was noted that harmine (as HCL? 141mg = 120mg freebase harmine) could activate 35 to 40mg of DMT taken orally, in doses in the 140 to 190mg hcl range; whereas doses of 120 to 140mg freebase harmine were ineffective when taken with 30mg of DMT."

Based on what Jonathan Ott saids above, it's quite possible that 160mg harmine freebase (190mg harmine hcl) could very well activate 90mg of DMT complexed to 630mg of plain HPBCD (use 720mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) very well, I would prefer this over my normal 200mg harmine freebase. I will give this a go and report back. As I normally take around 250 to 300mg of tetrahydroharmine with the harmine (only recommend 150mg THH to beginners, which is average amount found in one Ayahuasca cup), I would love to reduce the harmine amount by any means possible.

Will give this a go soon & report back: 160mg harmine freebase + 250mg THH + 90mg DMT complexed to 630mg plain HPBCD all dissolved into a 1oz hot water tea. I will see how this compares to my many past experiences of using sublingual 90mg DMT complexed to 630mg HPBCD. If this could give me the exact same effect taken orally as what I normally get using it sublingually (+5 Shulgin level strength), but without the sublingual sting, then I would be a happy camper.

Harmine always gives me a weird kind of distant minor queasiness/dizziness feeling at 200mg, it's just not my favorite substance, it always makes me want to sit in one place and not move around much, but it's not really apparent at all around 120-160mg. I hope this works.

I look forward to trying this.

I posted these tips below way back in March of 2018, re-posting to show that 160mg of harmine "should" work just fine in place of using 200mg of harmine, I intend to find out, as I've used 200mg of harmine for ages...anything I can do to lower the dosage of harmine would be invaluable imho, just not a big fan of harmine, so the less I can use the better. But I'm a huge fan of THH, using from 150mg (average amount found in 1 cup of Ayahuasca) to 300mg (amount consumed by some more advanced members when 2 cups are consumed for evening). I'm advanced, my preferred amount is 250 to 300mg pure THH.

Post #207 above is complete 6 page summary of this paper with pics. Part 4 of post #207 explains how HPBCD complexed DMT (2 minute easy process) is many factors stronger & all-encompassing than DMT freebase or DMT salts when used in an Ayahuasca tea, identical imho to using actual strong Hawaiian leaf.

From page 61 of "Ayahuasca Analogues" (1994) by Jonathan Ott:

His book is rare to find and retails for over two hundred dollars from book collectors, but read back when it was in print.

Moderate and Strong activating amounts of harmine (pg 250 of 639): "Pharmacotheon: Entheogenic drugs, their plant sources & history" by Jonathan Ott:

https://ibogaine.mindvox...ahuasca-vinho-da-jurema/
hxxp://ibogaine.mindvox.com/articles/pharmahuasca-anahuasca-vinho-da-jurema/

In 1997 he wrote (from above link):

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:

The only thing I would add is that back in Ott's day very little was know of the importance of thh (tetrahydroharmine) in caapi. What is the difference between caapi and rue? Just as Bancopuma had wrote a long time ago, "the more caapi the better." Caapi contains tetrahydroharmine as it's second largest alkaloid, and contributes greatly to the experience in many postitive ways, besides it's visionary, brightening and coloring abilities, it goes way beyond that....it inactivates barriers or filters in the brain so that "mind at large" as coined by Aldous Huxley can be let loose. Mind at Large: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_at_Large

THH in the caapi seems to strongly activate the right hand hemisphere of the brain-- the side that performs tasks that have to do with creativity and the arts, feelings, visualizations, imagination, holistic thinking & intuition, empathy, spirituality & connectedness. In the book "Return to the Brain of Eden", researchers found that the right side of the brain lit up in brain scans of people who took LSD, mescaline, or mushrooms.

Trips (from here on 12/2/2011):

The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like tetrahydroharmine in Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence. Is this component of caapi a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain? you be the judge.

Jonathan Ott's new 2011 article entitled "Psychonautic uses of 'Ayahuasca' and its Analouges: Panacaea or Outre Entertainment?" (located on pages 104 to 122 of the below linked book) from "The Internationalization of Ayahuasca":
https://books.google.com...%20ayahuasca&f=false
On page 121 Ott writes (2011):

An experienced old poster by the name of Tatt seemed to have summed it up well back in Dec 2015 when he posted:

In many ways, his comments are similar to what Palmer wrote about above.

Pic 1: human pharmacology of Ayahuasca capsules, freebase harmine amount used

Pic 2: human pharmacology of Ayahuasca capsules, dmt amount used

The liftmode THH came with a lab report.



This concerns me
Cadmium <0.010 ppm
Mercury <0.003 ppm
Lead <0.397 ppm
Arsenic <0.077 ppm
Testing date 11/24/2020

What is the concern? Those levels are very low. According to this site which developed a standard for heavy metal contamination, the Liftmode THH would qualify for the following outstanding ratings:

Cadmium A+++
Mercury A+++
Lead B
Arsenic A+++

Only lead is a concern, and it's still pretty good under these strict standards.

Note the guy who runs this site, Mike Adams "The Health Ranger" is (IMO) a total far right conspiracy theorist naturalist nutcase. If Liftmode THH is A+++ on his list for all heavy metals except a "B" for lead, I feel the heavy metals amounts are of no concern.

I'm dead

One love

Im not voteing .. [FOR]..the ..green/ yellow..color of LM THH!

It may be ok...but im the type of person who goes by the book..

If it should glow blue.. and it doesnt...to me thats a bit suspicious...

I dont want to cause others to dis trust the product...it just sits in my closet not being used..

I think i would trust rue tea better..because its natural and does contain some THH!



AVA69...I have a question about the HPBCD...

In a recent post you gave a recepy for just mixing halmallas..THH...HPBCD all together for an oral trip because you said you got tired of the sublingual stinging...

It apears that the HPBCD need not be pressed into a spoon..if your taking it orally?


So can i just mix HPBCD into some rue tea...just mixing is ok?

Im interested in the claim that HPBCD can make other drugs more absorbable?

Is this true?

I wonder if HPBCD mixed with some supliments ..[orally]..can make the supliment more effective?

there are lots of dream supliments on my mind that i ocasionally use...

there is... Galantamine...Huperzene A...[Vinpocetine]. and many other great Nutropics...

Or does this improvement using HPBCD...only happen with certain classes of drugs?