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Max Ion Tek Details Options
 
A Single Step
#1 Posted : 4/17/2021 7:34:43 PM
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Opps, sorry, I realize I placed this post in the wrong location (introductions). I put another copy of it here, but I don't know how to delete the miss-posted copy.

I've been reading and learning on the Nexus for some time. This week I placed orders for the all the materials and equipment to execute the Max Ion Tek. Powdered MHRB, Heptane, glassware, etc. I have questions about a number of details that I feel are kinda vaguely specified in the Tek:

Temperature of acid soak?
Temperature of NPS for defat?
Temperature of NPS for pull?
Volume of NPS used for each pull?
Recommended dimensions of freeze precip pyrex dish?
Freeze precip temp specified as -6deg... That's Celcius?
More detailed instructions for Re-x?

Anybody measure the marginal benefit of the freeze thaw procedure, given the time it takes? I'd think 8 hours soaking at pH 2 would break down the cell walls of powered MHRB pretty well.

Does defat give a better product using MHRB, even though it may not be as beneficial as compared to when used for ACRB?

I read about cleaning the NPS/DMT freebase solution with distilled water/baking soda solution. Does this work?
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Voidmatrix
#2 Posted : 4/17/2021 7:50:57 PM

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Greetings and welcomeSmile

Max Ion is my favorite tek, so let's see if I can help a bit.

Since we're kitchen chemists, we really don't need that much specificity (I had some of these exact same questions when I started out).

1. The heat shouldn't be so hot that you can't handle the vessel. Low to mid on your stove.

2. HOT. Allow the water to reach a near full boil before placing your COVERED NPS vessel in the hot water. Please be sure to have your solvent covered and away from your heat source while prepping your water and be sure the heat source is off before adding the vessel in. Let it stay in the water for 45sec to 1min.

3. Same as 2. Transfer quickly, as temperature equilibrium is rather fast.

4. I believe the tek specifies 50ml per pull, and a total of 6 pulls. Once you get better at it, you'll be able to use less solvent. I use about 35ml now for each pull.

5. A standard pyrex dish will be good. Ime, dimensions don't matter too much. The more surface area there is, the faster it will evaporate.

6. I'm not entirely sure specific temp on this on. Reccomend setting your freezer to the coldest temperature.

7. Dissolve your spice in about 25ml of solvent (you may need to heat the solvent and stir the solution to get all of the spice to dissolve). Siphon off the solvent away from any impurities (what did not dissolve in the solvent). Place vessel in freezer for freeze precipitation.

8. I have not, but I still do the step. First it makes sense. Second. I'm never in a hurry.

9. Defeating MHRB has been stated to be generally unnecessary. However, for a more pure product it can be helpful. Some plant fats come with the Spice if you don't (not as much as acacia). I like having a little plant fat with my spice, keeps the plant energy and character in my mind.

Hope this helps. Feel free to respond if I didn't answer all of your questions.

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A Single Step
#3 Posted : 4/18/2021 2:13:48 AM
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Thanks for the warm welcome and thoughtful reply -- this is very helpful.

I guess being particular is part of the fun for me. After all, I use a scale to measure my coffee beans before grinding them because a scoop just isn't precise enough.

Does the NPS vessel stay covered while it warms in the hot water? If so, is pressure buildup not a concern?

What's the key to using NPS per pull?
 
Voidmatrix
#4 Posted : 4/18/2021 2:38:18 AM

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2wheelinfool wrote:
Thanks for the warm welcome and thoughtful reply -- this is very helpful.

I guess being particular is part of the fun for me. After all, I use a scale to measure my coffee beans before grinding them because a scoop just isn't precise enough.

Does the NPS vessel stay covered while it warms in the hot water? If so, is pressure buildup not a concern?

What's the key to using NPS per pull?


My pleasure. Smile

I feel you, I'm pretty specific in most things myself.

Yes, it stays covered, but not sealed. I use smaller canning jars that come with those lids that come in two parts; the lid and the screwtop. When heating NPS I only apply the lid, not the screw top. If your vessel has an all-in-one screw on lid, just screw it on very very loosely.

As for your last question, can you elaborate?
If you mean just generally how to go about using in an extraction: after heating, quickly poor it into your extraction vessel and screw the top on. Next, mix the jar in an over under motion, flippin the jar to mix the solvent through the basified bark solution. I do about 20 flips, which is probably unnecessary since temperature equilibrium occurs relatively quickly. Allow the solution to settle and NPS to separate. Use a pipette to siphon off as much as possible of the solvent layer ontop of the mixture (you won't get it all). When pipetting, squirt into one jar, and when all pulls are done for the first amount of NPS, pour into another jar (this allows any visible impurities to remain in the first jar you squirted into). Repeat until you've completed all pulls. Evap (until cloudy which means it's saturated with spice), then plop in the freezer overnight.

Smile

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Question everything... including questioning everything...
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A Single Step
#5 Posted : 4/18/2021 1:36:04 PM
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Voidmatrix wrote:

As for your last question, can you elaborate?


Opps, I meant what's the key to using *less* NPS per pull (ie 35 ml instead of 50 ml)? Still, your response was helpful.

I have been meaning to ask, how smelly is the NPS? I am thinking about trying xylene now... My apartment is on the third floor and the rooms in my apartment are not well compartmentalized. I plan to make a plywood mount to install one of these 10" exhaust fans in the window above my kitchen sink to run while I am working:

https://www.amazon.com/I...138&sr=8-1&th=1

I hope that the fan will suck the vapors outside before they can diffuse within my apartment or into common spaces. I also hope the vapor will be sufficiently diluted outside that it won't attract the notice of passers by.

How do you ventilate? Do you use a respirator when working with NPS?
 
๖ۣۜƤˢychᵒ0Rⱥttler
#6 Posted : 4/18/2021 3:08:32 PM
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I've used a few Teks and found this to give me the best results. I believe your questions have been answered above but through trial and error I found the following to be very effective for myself. The rest of the tekl I followed

- After heating up the naphtha until it is HOT, I added it to the mix. Whilst not shaking, I tipped the jar upside down several times to ensure the solvent touches all parts of the solution and then allowed it to settle for half-hour. I repeated this process 3 more times.

- Before freezing, I allowed some of the pulled naphtha to evaporate with a fan for a short while. Then the glass tray went in the freezer for 48 hours. I found this length of time substantially increaded the yield in the pull.
 
Voidmatrix
#7 Posted : 4/18/2021 5:08:05 PM

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Ah! Gotcha! So, using less NPS you will need to get your pipetting technique solidified. Having the extra NPS (50ml instead of 35ml) allows an ease of siphoning since the NPS layer is thicker. It's all about practice.

You should be okay. The solvent is rather smelly, but it will be covered most of the time. Work near that fan in your kitchen so more fumes can be blown outside, reducing the chance of someone smelling. Also open any other windows in the house (maybe put fans blowing out of those too) for good ventilation.

My home has an exhaust fan in the kitchen. I also open all the windows and the front door.

I've been doing this for a little over a year and do not wear a respirator for the solvent. For the lye mixture maybe. Use small amounts of NPS at a time to avoid substantial buildup of fumes.

๖ۣۜƤˢychᵒ0Rⱥttler wrote:
Before freezing, I allowed some of the pulled naphtha to evaporate with a fan for a short while. Then the glass tray went in the freezer for 48 hours. I found this length of time substantially increaded the yield in the pull.


Good call. I always have a little spice in my saved solvent probably because I only leave it in for 12-24 hours.

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Question everything... including questioning everything...
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vixintrex
#8 Posted : 4/18/2021 8:50:48 PM

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hey voidmatrix,

would you mind laying me the skinny on ronsonol vs naphtha vs hexane? am I expected to distill hexane?

thanks.
 
Voidmatrix
#9 Posted : 4/18/2021 9:38:08 PM

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vixintrex wrote:
hey voidmatrix,

would you mind laying me the skinny on ronsonol vs naphtha vs hexane? am I expected to distill hexane?

thanks.


Well simply, lighter fluid (ronsonol) is pretty volatile so I'd advise against using it. I haven't read of many having much success with it.
Naphtha is a great solvent for extracting alkaloids, as is hexane. Hexane is known for being better for recrystalization because it's more selective. Heptane is said to be even better in recrystalizing. I doubt there's a need to distill since we're laypeople doing this, and there's a hazard concern distilling volatile chemicals.
Just make sure it evaporates clean.

Hope this helps Smile

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Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
The only safe place is the choice you make
All posts, responses, ideas and supposed experiences are that of an imaginary interdimensional being . This being comes to you with the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. That being said, everything posted must, perhaps, be taken lightly and with a grain of salt. 👽
 
A Single Step
#10 Posted : 4/25/2021 8:19:10 PM
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Voidmatrix wrote:


My home has an exhaust fan in the kitchen. I also open all the windows and the front door.



Do you think there is much risk of an exhaust fan causing an explosion if pulling with xylene in the kitchen? Or would the concentrations be low enough that this isn't a concern? Assume all due care is taken with regard to keeping containers closed as much as practicable. It's notable that xylene has a higher boiling point than heptane even though its more stinky.
 
Voidmatrix
#11 Posted : 4/26/2021 4:01:02 AM

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A Single Step wrote:
Voidmatrix wrote:


My home has an exhaust fan in the kitchen. I also open all the windows and the front door.



Do you think there is much risk of an exhaust fan causing an explosion if pulling with xylene in the kitchen? Or would the concentrations be low enough that this isn't a concern? Assume all due care is taken with regard to keeping containers closed as much as practicable. It's notable that xylene has a higher boiling point than heptane even though its more stinky.


If I may, how/why would an exhaust fan cause an explosion in this context? Is the concern out of potential build up of fumes in the system?

I don't think you'd have anything to worry about Smile. Just always use best practices.

One love
Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
The only safe place is the choice you make
All posts, responses, ideas and supposed experiences are that of an imaginary interdimensional being . This being comes to you with the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. That being said, everything posted must, perhaps, be taken lightly and with a grain of salt. 👽
 
A Single Step
#12 Posted : 4/26/2021 5:30:17 PM
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Voidmatrix wrote:


If I may, how/why would an exhaust fan cause an explosion in this context? Is the concern out of potential build up of fumes in the system?



Most motors transmit current to the rotor via brushes that contact the comutator. This generates arcing that could be an ignition source. That's why "explosion proof" motors are "brushless". Usually AC induction motors.

I'd be concerned about vapor concentrations reaching a level in the kitchen that could be ignited by the internal arcing in the exhaust fan. That may be far fetched, I'm guessing that would take a lot of exposed surface area of solvent or maybe operating a paint gun to achieve an explosive mixture.
 
A Single Step
#13 Posted : 4/26/2021 5:35:28 PM
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Voidmatrix, would you please lend your insight to my solvent testing thread? I have earnest concern that I'm hoping can be addressed.
 
Voidmatrix
#14 Posted : 4/26/2021 5:35:48 PM

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Alright just making sure I'm understanding the position your concern is originating from.

I have though about this myself relative to mine. I don't think there's a great enough evaporative buildup, not enough heat from the motor to cause concern.

It seems that a lot of NPS would have to evaporate in a small enough span of time to have enough buildup to cause an explosion. Hopefully someone with a little more background will chime in. DF0?

I'll do some research and see what can be discovered.

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There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
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A Single Step
#15 Posted : 4/27/2021 7:14:56 PM
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Worse case is probably 100 mL NPS spills out over the counter and floor if the extraction vessel breaks. Would that generate an explosive mixture in a small kitchen? I'm guessing not, but I don't know.
 
A Single Step
#16 Posted : 4/27/2021 7:16:00 PM
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Worse case is probably 100 mL NPS spills out over the counter and floor if the extraction vessel breaks. Would that generate an explosive mixture in a small kitchen? I'm guessing not, but I don't know.
 
Voidmatrix
#17 Posted : 4/27/2021 8:08:17 PM

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A Single Step wrote:
Worse case is probably 100 mL NPS spills out over the counter and floor if the extraction vessel breaks. Would that generate an explosive mixture in a small kitchen? I'm guessing not, but I don't know.


Here is the SDS (safety data sheet) for xylene. I haven't been able to read it yet, but see if it states anything about volatility and combustion.

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Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
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A Single Step
#18 Posted : 4/28/2021 2:31:39 AM
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Voidmatrix wrote:


Here is the SDS (safety data sheet) for xylene. I haven't been able to read it yet, but see if it states anything about volatility and combustion.


Indeed it does --

Use explosion-proof electrical, ventilating, lighting and all material handling equipment. Use only non- sparking tools. Take precautionary measures against static discharge

On the other hand, the SDS for Heptane specifies the exact same precautions. I guess I am just hoping you'll tell me hundreds of kitchen chemists have been doing small scale DMT extractions, ventilating using there range hood and there have been no known explosions as a result.
 
Voidmatrix
#19 Posted : 4/28/2021 3:29:28 AM

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Given that, presumably, most of the people on this forum extract DMT in their kitchens, you're right in my potential replyBig grin

I'm sure the SDS for naphtha has similar, if not the same, precautions.

So my subjective (and anecdotal) knowledge, there haven't been many (I assume a few individuals at least have not been as attentive as they should).

Keep the amounts of solvent prepped low, area ventilated and you should be good. Be extra safe and keep as many appliances out of the vicinity of anywhere in your work area the solvent may be present (examples include: near the stove (nothing you can do about that appliance, just make sure it's OFF when you bring the solvent vessel near it (can't be stressed enough)), where you'll add the solvent to your extraction vessel, and wherever you prep your solvent in it's own jar (pouring it)). Or at least unplug them.

Love

One love
Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
The only safe place is the choice you make
All posts, responses, ideas and supposed experiences are that of an imaginary interdimensional being . This being comes to you with the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. That being said, everything posted must, perhaps, be taken lightly and with a grain of salt. 👽
 
A Single Step
#20 Posted : 4/29/2021 11:29:22 AM
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Voidmatrix wrote:
Given that, presumably, most of the people on this forum extract DMT in their kitchens, you're right in my potential replyBig grin

I'm sure the SDS for naphtha has similar, if not the same, precautions.

So my subjective (and anecdotal) knowledge, there haven't been many (I assume a few individuals at least have not been as attentive as they should).

Keep the amounts of solvent prepped low, area ventilated and you should be good. Be extra safe and keep as many appliances out of the vicinity of anywhere in your work area the solvent may be present (examples include: near the stove (nothing you can do about that appliance, just make sure it's OFF when you bring the solvent vessel near it (can't be stressed enough)), where you'll add the solvent to your extraction vessel, and wherever you prep your solvent in it's own jar (pouring it)). Or at least unplug them.

Love

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Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna take all due care, and go for it.
 
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