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Ethyl acetate approach Options
 
merkin
#1241 Posted : 6/25/2022 4:56:25 AM

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starbob wrote:

You weren't kidding, that stuff is really brown! What do you think caused that? I've baked many batches of skins at ~140-150F a whole day and gotten browning a bit. The powder itself was never very brown, but the EA extracts did turn out very yellow instead of green and also do not have that red color after salting.


lol, yes - age and oxidisation I'm sure. Inspired by a youtube extraction video I bought a kilo around 2009-ish from Peru via Internet (and my first two cuttings of Pedro and one of Bridgesii to kick-off my cactus garden). Did 2 of the usual Xylene A/B's and decided that process was not for me despite a love for the 'sanchez' it produced. So I left the bag in my garage uncared for and forgotten until I read about Loveall's experiments with CIELO and I got inspired and hauled it out to try his tek. Despite all it delivered around 1.2-1.9% Citrate! All gone now Smile

Now I do all my new powder (my own plants) from pieces dried in a dehydrator at around 30-40°C max so the powder is nice and green (and a rich dark deep green in EA - and that rich red-purple colour if you shine a torch on it from the front).
 

Live plants. Sustainable, ethically sourced, native American owned.
 
Loveall
#1242 Posted : 6/29/2022 2:18:54 PM

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Merkin, I have also gotten a tan product with the older brown powders. Effects are identical to the white xtals from fresher green cacti powder as far as I can tell.

Cheers and thanks for sharing your results 🙂
 
merkin
#1243 Posted : 7/3/2022 1:16:54 PM

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Finally got some crystals from Fumaric Acid version of CIELO Thumbs up
No stirring at all, room temp EA liquid. Mostly fine crystals/powder started precipitating around 1hr but some longer shards grew in the centre of beaker base. ~30hr to clear cloudiness.

Any idea what HCl equivalent this is regarding dosage? There are 2 options for M Fumarate in Orchidist's calculator - not sure which one this would be.

Bridgesii - Yield 2.320g from 100g powder [full plant including core]
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Loveall
#1244 Posted : 7/3/2022 1:29:02 PM

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merkin wrote:
Finally got some crystals from Fumaric Acid version of CIELO Thumbs up
No stirring at all, room temp EA liquid. Mostly fine crystals/powder started precipitating around 1hr but some longer shards grew in the centre of beaker base. ~30hr to clear cloudiness.

Any idea what HCl equivalent this is regarding dosage? There are 2 options for M Fumarate in Orchidist's calculator - not sure which one this would be.

Bridgesii - Yield 2.320g from 100g powder [full plant including core]


Wow that's an amazing result with high yields. The wiki has the equivalent salt info and also a link to a calculator.

Do you know which bridgessi clone you used? I assume you kept it in the dark (how long?). Wes it the top part of the plant?
 
merkin
#1245 Posted : 7/4/2022 8:37:15 AM

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Hey Loveall - I got this Bridgesii in 2007, no idea about any specifics. It looks pretty much like all others I see pics of and very much same as one I got a few years back called "Ben" but haven't harvested him yet. Thanks to my gardner's "initiative" I have about 4 clusters of it growing around my garden, all replanted ~ Nov 2016. They were trimmed off the top of the plant at the time. The mother plant is quite huge and ~3-3.5m high. The 'cuttings' are approaching ~2m+.

Current powder was from two stalks that broke off due to pressure from another plant in May 2021 and have been in dark since then (still pupping).

Since all the Bridgesii I have harvested all originate from 1 plant it makes sense that the yield is consistent. For the Citrate its around 2.8-3.1%.

Thus far I always have replanted the tips from all cuttings (didn't know that might vary from the rest) as it makes nicer looking plants. Since they were originally cut from the top of the columns I guess that would qualify them as tops.

My Pedros are 3 original plants so I need to figure out which is which in terms of yield or not as I cannot remember which is from which original. Didn't pay attention to details like that when I started planting. So far only one cutting has given a decent yield, 4 others all less than 200mg Citrate.

These pics show the mother plant itself - and some details (and you can where it was 'topped'Pleased, and one of the replanted pieces that broke (pink arrow) and is now part of the powder. It has blossomed only twice since planting, one flower each time. As you can see I planted the mother in a stupid position (under trees, too close to wall etc) as I had no real expectation for it based on reading 'alkaloid content' figures on Internet. The last pic was cut off the mother plant (August last year), and it has been dried and powdered but not extracted yet.

Hope I'm not spamming off topic here. I will compile a report from all the pieces I harvest and extract for that other thread.

Its nice to have a powder with known yield to experiment with other acids like the fumarate - just one less variable and a reason not to doubt myself when yield is dismal Smile

Only noticed the fumarate crystals in the last batch when I decanted - I couldn't see them in the green/red murk so it was a nice surprise.

The calculator had two options for the Fumarate (1:1 and 2:1) - I am not sure which this one is. But I will assume the 75% you gave on the Wiki for now.



merkin attached the following image(s):
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Loveall
#1246 Posted : 7/4/2022 9:17:06 AM

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Not spaming at all 🙂

That whole plant 3% yield is amazing. Could be double for only the outer skin, that approaches ~4% HCl equivalent which is legendary status I think, only heard of Ogun yielding more.

What beautiful plants, thank you for the pictures!
 
merkin
#1247 Posted : 7/4/2022 4:01:39 PM

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Some more pics: the 'family' - all the tops of the harvested pieces that were replanted. Some of the Pedros broke and fell, hence the damage. They all have rooted and grown for a year or so but I am running out of good planting space! The yellow guys all grew their way out of the wrapping in the garage darkness and some of them I planted. They are slowly going green. On the right of all the tops you can see some little Pedro pups that have recovered their color completely.

The Bridgesii are very hard to 'de-core' without feeling like you're wasting potential material - you can see how large the core is compared to the surrounds on the slices about to dehydrate. With Pedros its easier because they have a large diameter, but once Bridgesii have dried a bit there's not much 'flesh' to work with so easier to just grind. I separate most of the little sticks from the core out with a kitchen sieve. Definitely without that the yield % would be higher, but ultimately it the yield weight that's important Pleased

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