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Best MAOI/RIMA to consume prior to DMT? Options
 
Rock.0
#1 Posted : 12/15/2020 11:47:05 PM

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Hi Team,
I'm wondering what is the most accessible, value for money, smokable MAOI/RIMA?

I can easily and cheaply get my hands on Peganum Black Harmala on eBay, but is there something better to use or will that do a fine enough job?

I'm also open to other ingestion methods as long as they are safe (My understanding is that P.Harmala is suitable for oral ingestion without the worry of substance interraction as it is a RIMA as opposed to MAOI but happy for someone to correct me on this.

Thanks,

Rock. Smile
 

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bismillah
#2 Posted : 12/16/2020 12:31:19 AM

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Syrian rue. 3.5 - 4 grams of the seeds, not shredded or crushed, brought to a simmer in a pot for 30 minutes. Filter, reduce, voila! It's perfect. There's also the option of extracting the harmalas and smoking them, which I wouldn't bother with personally.
No need to worry about interactions, you're right, but it's still not a good idea to eat a heavy meal or drink caffeinated drinks before you take any sort of MAOI.

People say caapi is superior and more similar to trad. ayahuasca, which I'm sure it is, but dang, the stuff is hard to find. Up here in Kanuckistan anyway.
That said, rue does a very good job, and has its own character. Just don't be tempted to drink more than 4.5 grams' or so worth of rue tea---you'll have a bad time!
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Rock.0
#3 Posted : 12/16/2020 1:07:17 AM

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Thanks mate, I guess I'm more partial to smoking as it's easier to have unplanned/spontaneous sessions and not have to worry about what I've eaten throughout the day. But it's good to have confirmation that Rue is a RIMA rather than MAOI.

Yeh I'm in Australia, and it is possible to get Caapi, but MUCH more expensive. Rue goes for <$10AU for a 250g bag.

Thank you for the dose warning, I'm very sensitive to psychoactives generally, so no desire to go too heavy a dose on anything.

Thoughts on Passionflower or Mullein? That stuff is pretty accessible.
 
der-seemann
#4 Posted : 12/16/2020 10:43:53 PM

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Rue is probably the best way to go, but:

Rue (and caapi too) contain harmine and harmaline, both reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase A (RIMAs), a subclass of MAOIs that selectively and reversibly inhibit the MAO-A enzyme.
So the MAO-B enzyme strays intact and after a while some hours) the MAO-A gets active again.

But still, harmine and harmaline mess with the MAO system and can generate severe complications with some food and especially with some medicine / drugs.

Whether you smoke or eat them doesn't make a big difference, is still the same substances inhibiting the MAO in your system.

Take care!
 
Rock.0
#5 Posted : 12/17/2020 1:25:29 AM

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Thanks der-seemann, I'm learning Smile
So to clarify, even with RIMAs it is wise to take care with foods (Tyramines)?

I've been smoking changa and taking no care whatsoever with foods, as I was advised not to bother; it only causes complications when orally ingested.

I've had no undesirable side effects from this.

My assumption was that when orally ingested the MAO inhibition occurred more directly in the gut tissue, where tyramines may also be present.

I'd love it if someone could unpack this a bit more.

P.S. I'm happy to be pointed towards some reading, but what are the functional differences between harmine and harmaline?
 
ShamensStamen
#6 Posted : 12/17/2020 1:30:28 AM
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Tyramine is not an issue even with oral ingestion.

I personally never diet, fast or avoid any kinds of food, i've taken Rue/Harmalas daily for months on end, and daily/near daily for 4 years straight, never had any issue.
 
Rock.0
#7 Posted : 12/17/2020 4:21:05 AM

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Interesting. I hear cases and personal stories where people have had horrendous nausea after drinking Rue tea, but even still, drinking seems to be the most common method of ingestion.

I guess logistics quite often dictate when I can smoke DMT, so it is usually unplanned and spontaneous, and therefore I am put off the idea of orally ingesting Rue tea due to the fact that I've likely consumed all sorts of foods that day. But if you're saying don't worry about it, maybe I'll give it a try.

What sort of effect duration is the Rue?
 
ShamensStamen
#8 Posted : 12/17/2020 8:00:41 AM
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Well Harmalas are purgatives in general, even purified Harmala extracts can make you vomit, particularly Harmaline since it's stronger but Harmine can too if the dosage is high enough. Your body will get used to it though if regularly consumed and it'll no longer cause nausea/vomiting and it'll feel cleaner, even if you're taking the actual powdered seed in a capsule.

Rue usually starts to hit me about 20 minutes into it with a little something, the first wave, then 45 minutes into it is when things really start, and in the second hour is when things kick into gear and i'm coming up, after 2 full hours it stabilizes, usually vomiting would happen within the second hour, if it happens. After about 4 full hours things usually tend to lessen/lighten up, and by hour 6 i'm pretty much back down. If taking a higher dosage though i can still be feeling the tail end effects around hour 8, or if i go heavy, hour 10, but usually no matter the dosage i'm back to being functional and soberish/clear around hour 6.
 
 
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