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5-MeO-DMT+Harmala Options
 
OneIsEros
#1 Posted : 8/9/2020 2:11:05 AM
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Preface: I would say to any who are interested:

I was tempted to try this by the mystique of ultimacy. Based on what I found, as cool as this compound may be, the considerably safer standard oral DMT preparations were in my own evaluation, greatly preferable entheogens.

Meditation practice is far better with oral DMT than oral 5-MeO-DMT.

Original post:

I insufflated 5 mg of 5-MeO-DMT tonight. I at the most experienced sub-perceptual effects. But as a person with basically no experience snorting things, I can say I do not plan on doing that again. Meditating would be very difficult with that sort of sensation going on the whole time.

I am aware that harmalas+5-MeO-DMT=danger. But, I have a great scale I can tare to high accuracy, and from what I’ve read on erowid, it seems folk have pulled through, though there are reports of emergency room trips, and people have died. I’d be doing 10 mg 5-MeO-DMT and maybe 200 mg harmine orally.hMy question is; has anyone done this? If you’d be kind enough to share your experience, I would be grateful.

I’m not a fan of vaping myself into breakthroughs, I prefer doing sitting meditation for the duration of my psychedelic trips instead.

—First update—

5 mg 5-MeO-DMT with 200 mg harmine eaten at the same wrapped up in a piece of toiletpaper, is a strong dose for me personally - my original plan of 10 mg would have been a bad idea - and I have never met anyone who takes larger doses of psychedelics than myself in 13 years of tripping (internet lore suggests there are others out there). Eat a croissant after eating pharmahuasca of any kind, it in my experience guarantees it will kick in. Do not start out with larger doses of this substance. It could kill you or permanently harm you psychologically.

—Second update —

I did this again, and just like the first time it took a full two hours to really start kicking in. I don’t know if this is a pharmahuasca thing or a 5-MeO-DMT thing yet, but beware of the potential time delay!!!! Also I did 10 mg this time. Intense! Also felt a bit of chest/breathing issues, nothing threatening; BUT for the love of God; be careful with this substance. Just a few milligrams off... could be physically dangerous. Plus.... it is very psychologically intense. The duration is six hours. You’ll still be pretty high by hour six, but not as heavy in the grip of it. Maybe 8 or 9 hours to be basically baseline.

---Third update ---

again, took 200 mg harmine + 10 mg 5-MeO-DMT in a piece of toilet paper followed by a croissant. This time it took an hour and 40 minutes. Pharmahuasca for me taken in this manner usually hits in 20-30 minutes. I am coming to conclude that this is one of several psychedelics that takes longer than usual to hit.

Also - IF you are feeling threatened by chest/breathing issues. Call an ambulance. There are reports of people dying or blacking out and waking up in hospitals. You don't want to black out and die and have the last thing you remember being: "Ugh, this feels really bad...". It is recommended you have a sober sitter with you not for the psychological but for the real physical danger that you could die. That being said: IF it is only uncomfortable and not feeling threatening... masturbate. This drug is an incredible sex drug, and I cannot wait to try it with a partner. I saw lots of colors on orgasm, and it helped a lot with the chest/breathing discomfort I was experiencing. It's not an entactogen, but the sense of touch... wow. I love sex on psychedelics generally, but this is something special. Washing my hands felt great.

---Fourth update---

Tried 10 mg 5-MeO-DMT with a few drops of vinegar and 5 ml water taken rectally. An hour and 20 minutes in, it works, but definitely not as well as the same dose taken orally with 200 mg harmine.

From research I did on ayahuasca taken rectally it appeared like people were reporting that harmalas absorb very well rectally, but the DMT not so much.

There may be variation in different people or I might be doing something wrong, but I’m back to oral ingestion for both 5-MeO-DMT combined with harmalas and DMT combined with harmalas.

---Fifth update---

Before I begin, a little note for the community: all this stuff y'all say about grinding syrian rue seeds, and adding lemon juice, all that jazz - no guys. Just dump the rue seeds, whole, into a pot of water, and boil it on high for 10 minutes. Presto, fully active liquid. All that extra stuff (grinding the seeds, lemon juice, etc.) just makes it more gross. Yuck. A ten minute boil is sufficient.

Okay, so, I did a three gram shot of rue liquid, followed by a parachute in a rolling paper (I cut the paper down so there was as little of the paper there as possible) of 10 mg 5-MeO-DMT.

It kicked in at the normal time psychedelics normally kick in, about a half hour in. So I suppose the delay before had something to do with the pure harmine and 5-MeO-DMT being in a piece of toilet paper... not the 5-MeO-DMT itself.

There is no pharmacological aspect of oral 5-MeO-DMT that would make it kick in late (as psychedelics like ibogaine or mescaline or DOx compounds, which take 2 hours to hit, do). The delay in my previous experiments was evidently due to ingestion method, not inherent pharmacology.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
ShamensStamen
#2 Posted : 8/9/2020 3:58:47 AM
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I'm curious/interested in this too. I'm sure people here are well aware of the risks/possible dangers of such combination. But, with that said, if someone was going to go about doing this, what would people's advice be for proper harm/risk reduction and what would be some possible signs/symptoms to look out for when asking oneself if they need physical help? I know quite a few people are probably like "don't do it", but imo it would be useful/helpful if instead of dismissing this potential combination we shed some light onto it and make sure it can be done as safely as possible.

I myself, i'm an oral DMT+Harmala kinda guy, i feel i get more out of it that way, although Changa is nice too. When it comes to 5-MEO, the two main areas of concern imo are that 5-MEO is reported to increase monoamine concentration which combined with MAO-A inhibition could be a bit too much, though i think it should be able to be safely done with the right dosage of 5-MEO, which brings me to the second area of concern, 5-MEO's metabolization by CYP2D6, which Harmalas inhibit, so in terms of dosage, i would think primarily one should get the 5-MEO dosage right and start kinda low, not only due to the MAO-A inhibition itself but also and most importantly the CYP2D6 inhibition, both of which could very well potentiate 5-MEO to the extreme, so i would think it'd be safe practice to start out very low to begin with, with a proper dosage of Harmalas (and accurate timing between the Harmalas and 5-MEO unless you're one to combine both ingredients at the same time). 5-MEO Changa on the other hand, could be more than doable, but would still need to be done cautiously.

I've only had 5-MEO twice, the first time a friend let me try some and while he was definitely in it, i felt pretty functional and he even asked me how i was so functional because it was hitting him pretty strongly, i chalked it up to me not getting the full dose but also because i was so used to the Aya because i had been taking it very regularly. The second time i had 5-MEO, another friend gifted me some and one night i wanted to go for a test dose, so i loaded up about 5mgs and took a few puffs, definitely different from the first time i tried it and not having had any Aya for a good long while, my motor function was impaired, could barely move my hands, this weird acceleration in my chest followed by a more pronounced heart beat/rate, decided i'd sit the pipe down and ride it all out, so i played a good long song and relaxed, and things were fine a few minutes or so later. So i thought to myself after that, i'd need to prepare myself a bit more before trying the 5-MEO again, and so i listened to some more music and felt like smoking on some Rue seed after i was back down from the 5-MEO, i smoked a good bit of the Rue seed, then like an hour or so later i had the thought of "let me hit the 5-MEO pipe and see if there's still anymore in there or if i got the whole 5mgs), i definitely didn't get the full dose because when i smoked it again there was still some left in there and i thought "holy shit, i shouldn't have done that" lol, considering i smoked some Rue beforehand. To make a long story short, the remaining 5-MEO was probably potentiated by the smoked Rue, and the effects felt a good bit different that time around, felt more Changa-like, 5-MEO-ish but definitely had the Harmala vibe/flavor to things, so it made me curious about 5-MEO Changa, if done safely.

So i think it should be discussed, and we should talk about safe and effective ways to try 5-MEO and Harmala combinations, especially so that we can reduce potential risks and avoid unnecessary ills. So hopefully some folks more knowledgeable on the subject will chime in.
 
rOm
#3 Posted : 8/9/2020 8:31:29 AM

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I did Harmalas plus 5 MeO DMT orally. But initiallyit was a mistake from unlabelled jars.
I did way much 5 meo and it went uncomfortable on coming up,and I went to throw up. Prolly threw up coz the trip wasn't too strong giventhe dosage. I thought maybe for me 5 to 10 mg max5 meo DMT orally would be good.
I never repeated orally 5 however I did do rectally 5 Meo dmt.

Yeh careful as some do andlike it andsome other for obscure reasons react badly and we know the risks.
Thsi can only be done with synthetic 5 meoDMt,if some readers here have the oprganic toad base one,you know we only vape it to get rid ofthebufotoxins which are cardiotoxic. Which I do and I never mix that and harmalas cause also its a coktail ofmolecules but I feel great afterit too.

SO to come back onthe oral 5 Meo DMT it has the wicked aftermath, tyou feel so happy and relaxed after 5 MeO-DMT;I remember I dosed more harmalas later and even some Piri piri ( cyperus articulatus tincturer I made) and entered into a dissociation.
Also my GF decided to check on me and even started to make us have sexual intercourse andwe had and this too felt incredible once the endorphins kicked into this already rich mix of neurotransmittors.

I was having pharmahuasca every weeek at the time, and n,n DMT we never started bedroom activity.But 5MEO is also more sensual ( butless visual ).
I remember havingseagull wall paper and seeing their heads moving like a hieroglyphs dance though.That was theonly visuals I remeber but I didn't close my eyes either.


Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
rOm
#4 Posted : 8/9/2020 8:39:52 AM

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About the 5 mMeO changa question, I only made eLeaf with n,n DMT and 5 MeO with like 1:4 to 1:5 parts, so 5 Mg 5 MeO to 20 to 25 mg n,n DMT fb per dose of eLeaf. THis mix was nice too, different from n,n DMT? more abstract visual, more between heavy kambo trance and salvia divinorum lol.
I think you can also add Salvia divinorum extract to this mix if you're into weirdness and strange combos.
But again, given the apparent unsafety of mixing harmalas or any RIMAs and even moremixing MAOI pharmaceuticals or SSRI with 5 MeO DMT ( poeple with those antidepressant shouldn't do 5 MeO DMT or Aya or pharma / changa as the issue could be a serotonin syndrome which would be at best horrible, at worst deadly ), I never dared repeated 5 MeO DMT and harmalas. Even if I had the feeling if I keep 5 at 10mg max orally and liek 150 to 200 mg harmalas, I should be fine ( I as I respond well and feel quite safe on 5 MeO,uinlike some poeple, well I puked only when dosing 200 mg harmalas and more than 50 mg 5 meo which was way too much and I likely puked some, my body had a life saving instinct cause at first I thought I was maybe gonna die here, with my mistake ( my 5 meo dmt HCL was a bit orangey tinted and my n,n DMT fumarate too had alike orange tint due to me pulling with limonene ) But n,n DMT is white ( with orange tint maybe if limonene residual ) while 5 meo DMT is more transparent crystal with maybe a tint.

Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
dithyramb
#5 Posted : 8/9/2020 10:53:56 AM

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I only have experience with oral phalaris and rue in which 5 MeO DMT was present a few times in aquatica. There seems to be a safe range but I am not sure if the whole plant extract is comparable to pure 5 MeO DMT. The whole body orgasm like feeling that I experienced apparently was shared by Gracie and zarkov's rue and aquatica inhalation experiences. İnhaling would probably be safer than drinking. And 10mg seems really high to me, 1mg would be a better starting dose İMO.
 
rOm
#6 Posted : 8/9/2020 4:48:22 PM

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10mg vaped isn't same as 10 mg oral.With DMT you may vape 20 ro 30 mg andbreakthrough with a GVG while doing 100 mg with 250mg harmalas and not breakthrough ( for poeple like me ).
10mg pure 5 is a serious vaped dose but in my experience it isn't a particularly high dose for oral. and even vaped I did more.
you may take 1mg but to me it is submicrodose if oral. this would belike starting n,n DMT pharmahuasca at 5 mg.
Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
OneIsEros
#7 Posted : 8/9/2020 5:46:08 PM
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I looked at your trip report rOm, and I must say, based on all the research I have done, yours seems like a very unique experience. One guy on erowid ended up blacking out and waking up in the hospital on a dose as low as 20 mg 5-MeO-DMT + harmalas orally (although that one was with what sounded like a High School kid, who sounded pretty unexperienced and far from ready for such an adventure).

There was another guy on erowid who was in a group down in Mexico (he and the crew he was with sounded a lot more experienced than the previously mentioned report) who all did 40 mg 5-MeO-DMT + harmalas orally, and both he and some others in the group who did that dose lost their minds.

I'm pretty experienced with overwhelmingly intense trips.
I've done ten strips of acid,
I have double-dosed ayahuasca,
I have done 4 G syrian rue + 15 G acacia raw where I just swallowed the plants whole after grinding them up...

I think I can handle overwhelmingly intense and long-lasting experiences. And it seems like people get away with doses like the erowid doses without dying..... But I'm not trying to go "intense" like that. I can ride trips like that out, but I'm hoping to meditate productively and not just "hold onto my hat" the whole while.

Thank-you for sharing your experience, but the very few other reports out there would suggest 10 mg 5-MeO-DMT + harmalas orally would be more than a microdose, given how overbearingly intense 40 mg and 20 mg have both been reported to be. It's good to know though, and I thank you for sharing, because the possibility of a uniquely resistant reaction is good information to have.

I may start at either 5 or 10 mg 5-MeO-DMT + harmalas orally and increase the dose by 5 mg with each new experience if I feel like I want more. I'll happily report back over time.
 
dithyramb
#8 Posted : 8/9/2020 7:44:58 PM

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I am not experienced with vaping, but considering of 5 MeO with harmalas the blackout reports at 20mg, the death report at 200mg, 10mg might not be a good choice for recommendation. Perhaps the best way to enjoy this combination would be with whole plant extracts of appropriate phalaris strains, the DMT potentiating the 5 MeO, adding color and allowing lower doses to penetrate deeper, and thus being safer.
 
OneIsEros
#9 Posted : 8/9/2020 10:27:49 PM
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rOm wrote:
I did do rectally 5 Meo dmt.


Tell me more... Dose? Experience? Any pain?
 
ShamensStamen
#10 Posted : 8/9/2020 11:20:55 PM
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Please keep in mind the 5-MEO dosage potentiation by MAO-A inhibition and CYP2D6 inhibition. That is very important when taking oral 5-MEO into consideration when it comes to Harmalas. For example, Harmalas also have CYP1A2 inhibition, i take a blood pressure medication called Tizanidine for sleep, when i don't consume Harmalas and i take Tizanidine i normally take 8mgs which is 2 tablets to knock me out, when i do consume Harmalas and i take Tizanidine i use a half a tablet, 2mgs then equals the same potency as 8mgs. With the CYP2D6 inhibition, i've also noticed potentiation of Clonidine when i've taken that at times after taking the Harmalas and it definitely got waaaaay potentiated too. So the CYP2D6 inhibition by the Harmalas is no joke, add on to that the MAO-A inhibition, and 5mgs of 5-MEO may be too much, especially if you're one who is lower in CYP2D6 and/or MAO-A to begin with.

So with the CYP2D6 inhibition + the MAO-A inhibition, i would say the safe bet is to start in the few hundred microgram range with 5-MEO, or 5mgs at most until you can estimate/approximate what is what dosage-wise. 5-MEO is a little different than DMT in terms of oral activation which is why you need to reduce the dosage of 5-MEO quite a bit. It also makes me curious if CYP2D6 inhibition alone would be enough to notice 5-MEO orally without MAO-A inhibition since the dosage would be drastically decreased by the CYP2D6 inhibition, or if MAO-A absolutely needs to be inhibited for 5-MEO to be orally active. Either way, best to be careful and start out low on the 5-MEO when in combination with Harmalas and work your way up.
 
OneIsEros
#11 Posted : 8/9/2020 11:32:45 PM
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Noted, I’ll start with 200 mg harmine and 5 mg 5-MeO-DMT orally and feel my way out from there (tentatively guessing I’ll add around 5 mg more 5-MeO-DMT with each successive experience until I find my “sweet spot”.)

I’ll report back with what I experience and be sure to note the drastic variance among individuals with this particular chemical when I do. I’ll probably copy/paste what you just wrote to go along with that cautionary note when I write it to emphasize that the “Your Mileage May Vary” thing is more than just a psychological thing with this particular substance, that there really are biological metabolic differences that will lead to different experiences with this one.
 
rOm
#12 Posted : 8/10/2020 8:01:01 AM

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OneIsEros, no pain, better than getting the drip from n,n DMT or 5 MeO DMT nasally or sublingually. Thats one of the resason I like this ROA. If you have FB n,n DMT or 5 for intrarectal you may simply add few drops of lemon juice or vinegar to your mesured dose and add a lil of distilled water ( well any sort of water, if you got tap water only it will work out of course ). Suckwith oral syringeorneedless syringe and enter and press. Of course keep it up,but ml amount of such liquid is very easy to keep and it will be absorbed too, than ifyou do plants enema, and have to get like a glass worth of liquid, oits very hard to keep it in, you have like a reflex to get it out. Thats why also this is easy with strong per weight substance I feel. if you want to try that for like mimosa tea, keep it inmind and reduce your liquid, as you do'nt taste anything, you do'nt have to worry about it being too bitter and such. Might be good do a to do an egg white to remove tanins as tannins will make your tissues constricted and might slow absobbtion.
5 mg rectally is a good starting dose. It works even without harmalas of course. its prolly the safest way to do 5 meO synthetic ad comes up more genlty and last longer than vaped.
Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
OneIsEros
#13 Posted : 8/11/2020 12:42:41 AM
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Weighed out around 5 mg 5-MeO-DMT along with 200 mg harmine and ate them both at the same time an hour and a half ago. So far nothing, or so little it could be placebo. I’ll update if that changes, but if it doesn’t the next time I experiment I will go up to 10 mg 5-MeO-DMT.

Update: there is definite activity, but it is very, very mild. This is for my personal biochemistry equal to a microdose, or perhaps very, very slightly beyond one (because apparently you’re not supposed to notice a microdose at all but I can indeed detect activity).
 
ShamensStamen
#14 Posted : 8/11/2020 1:30:03 AM
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Next time wait 30 minutes to an hour after the Harmalas to take the 5-MEO. Taking them both at the same time, like Harmalas and DMT, doesn't work as well because you want MAO-A to already be inhibited by the time the DMT (or 5-MEO) is consumed, imo/ime.
 
OneIsEros
#15 Posted : 8/11/2020 1:44:02 AM
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Update: it got stronger. I take pretty hardcore doses, in mushroom terms 5 grams is a bare minimum and I would usually opt for much more. But while I might consider increasing the dose, this dose (5 mg 5-MeO-DMT and 200 mg harmine orally at the same time) is basically satisfactory.

As has been noted in this thread, the variance in experience with this compound appears to be more than just psychological variance; there are actual physical differences between people which result in different metabolic processes with this particular compound which may not be present with other psychedelics. Do not fuck around. This is by all reports the most intense psychedelic that exists. It can be very psychologically dangerous, not to mention physically lethal. I personally know someone who developed PTSD from ayahuasca. This compound is heavier than that.

To ShamenStamen: In my personal experience with pharmahuasca generally, the issue is actually never “MAOI first, DMT next”. It’s just what’s in the stomach. For me a 100% reliable way of making pharmahuasca kick in properly is to eat a croissant immediately after consuming the pharmahuasca. Other bread works too, but I believe the butter in a croissant helps as well. I had eaten some bread prior to this trip, but next time I will resume my typical croissant ritual. I discovered this after having 50-50 success/fail experience with pharmahuasca... and then one night... on a large dose which never manifested, I ate a sandwich. Almost immediately after that, I spent the night on the floor. The trick has always worked ever since Smile
 
OneIsEros
#16 Posted : 8/15/2020 8:11:12 PM
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I did this again, and just like the first time it took a full two hours to really start kicking in. I don’t know if this is a pharmahuasca thing or a 5-MeO-DMT thing yet, but beware of the potential time delay!!!! Also I did 10 mg this time. Intense! Also felt a bit of chest/breathing issues, nothing threatening; BUT for the love of God; be careful with this substance. Just a few milligrams off... could be physically dangerous. Plus.... it is very psychologically intense.
 
OneIsEros
#17 Posted : 8/16/2020 9:36:19 PM
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---Third update --- again, took 200 mg harmine + 10 mg 5-MeO-DMT in a piece of toilet paper followed by a croissant. This time it took an hour and 40 minutes. Pharmahuasca for me taken in this manner usually hits in 20-30 minutes. I am coming to conclude that this is one of several psychedelics that takes longer than usual to hit.

Also - IF you are feeling threatened by chest/breathing issues. Call an ambulance. There are reports of people dying or blacking out and waking up in hospitals. You don't want to black out and die and have the last thing you remember being: "Ugh, this feels really bad...". It is recommended you have a sober sitter with you not for the psychological but for the real physical danger that you could die. That being said: IF it is only uncomfortable and not feeling threatening... masturbate. This drug is an incredible sex drug, and I cannot wait to try it with a partner. I saw lots of colors on orgasm, and it helped a lot with the chest/breathing discomfort I was experiencing. It's not an entactogen, but the sense of touch... wow. I love sex on psychedelics generally, but this is something special. Washing my hands felt great. ---end third update---
 
rOm
#18 Posted : 8/26/2020 10:45:23 AM

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yes OneIsEros, I was lucky on my 5 meo pharma experience to have my GF engaging in sex with me. It helped and pushed the tryp in a very nice direction, it was good alreayd and it was getting great after our cuddles. so yes I think it has aphrodisiac likeproperties in that, if you have a partner or a potential one, I think it may turn them up and you may enjoy alot like with MDMA or mescaline, or amanita muscimol mushrooms or iboga ( for me those are great also if you don't mind having sexual intercourse with someone you trust while on psychedelic ).
For safety might just boof or also mix as I did for eLeaf 4:1 DMT to 5 MeO DMT,you get different effect than with DMT without vaping lot of 5 MeO. Should try this combo again like 25 mg n,n DMT and 5 mg 5 meo plugged with maybe a little harmalas..
But yeh all those risks people been to is a bit scary and it is not recommended to try that, or even IMO start 5meo alone. For some reason, after I vaped a strong release dose of 100mg ofsecretions ( which is 15% 5 MeO DMT maybe in incilius ( bufo ) alvarius ), I had like the call of doing it again, but alone ( I was with three people, so this feel comforting ofr release dose but also I wanted to get closer to it but using half that max if alone with no sitter to help if needed ( for brath or cardiac risks ).
Keep in mind Iboga and 5 MeO DMT are both amongst the most dangerous psychedelics ( if we don't put deliriants like brugmansias and datura in this category ) so always be careful and thoughtful and do some research fi you feel the call.
Ithink for this reason, DMT and psiocybin mushrooms will always stay a more viable option for most travelers.
Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
OneIsEros
#19 Posted : 8/26/2020 11:42:58 AM
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Okay.... I am sure you know this, but just for anyone who does not..... for the love of GOD, do not mix harmalas with MDMA unless you want to die a painful death from serotonin syndrome.
 
dithyramb
#20 Posted : 8/26/2020 10:58:12 PM

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There are plants in the poaceae family which contain certain blends of DMT, 5 MeO DMT and other alkaloids. Some of them appear to be palatable and wholesome for the body and spirit. I love to experience 5 MeO DMT with harmalas through whole extracts of these plants...

The bodily dimension is very pleasurable, and whole body orgasms become natural in the afterglows...
 
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