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DMT - low sensitivity, only above threshold effects case Options
 
Exitwound
#1 Posted : 7/28/2020 12:16:38 PM

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Hello!

I have a friend (for real, asking for a friend) who is unusually non-sensitive to DMT.
I have tried different ways of blasting him off, different techniques and in the end I can only conclude that he's the first human that I know personally who is extremely tolerant to DMT.

Friend reports, that he only ever gets to somewhat visual stage, which is nothing of interest to him, with breakthrough "portal" or possibility hanging somethere there close, which he always tries to reach but never quite does. Aftereffect are also the same for him every time: after approximately 6-7 minutes mild nausea and yawning. We have tried doses as high as 50mg and he is able to coherently form thoughts and speak at doses as high as 50mg. Yes it was fully vaped, nothing remained.

Now I can't blame the spice, since it has been bioassayed by a multiple different persons and is extremely psychoactive for everybody. I personally only tried 9mg, but that was enough to get threshold visuals (both mild OEV and CEV) and tone in the ears and the whole "prepare for the launch" vibe.

Now this particular friend had a history of different drug heavy usage and still heavily uses cannabis on a daily basis.

My current theory is that at some point, he has fried something in his brain, which is preventing him from experiencing full effects. In earlier life he had a period of daily use of Aprophene (which is known to Russian-speaking public as "taren" ) which was a part of soviet military first-aid kit as a broad anti-venom. Apparently this is a lesser known halucinogenic substance which causes delirium states and lasts for quite a while (can last days) and known for causing psychosis.

I was wondering if anybody had or knows/heard about similar story and what's the cure, besides the obvious "don't take drugs for X amount of time (years maybe) to let your brain chemicals go back to normal".
Friend in question thinks that Aya/Pharma can be the solution, but I am not 100% sure it will also work, maybe his brain chemical factory just processes things differently.

 

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tatt
#2 Posted : 7/28/2020 6:50:21 PM

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Exitwound wrote:
maybe his brain chemical factory just processes things differently.


Yeah, that's very possible, enough so to where little much is gotten from it.

Have you tried changa with him, and if so how was the blend made and what were the ratios used?

Reason I say this is because maybe it's possible that the level of the MAO-A enzyme within his brain is somewhat more elevated than most folks. I remember reading several studies years back, one in particular talking about how from birth MAO-B is basically negligible, with MAO-A levels being relatively high at birth, with MAO-A increasing up until adulthood then leveling itselfout. MAO-B seems to have a linear ascent til the later/older years of a persons life, while MAO-A stays essentially where it's at. Obviously we're primarily focused on MAO-A here.

Not that the above study/info is all that useful, though it shown to me that the brain is going through changes constantly, even in the realm of this.

Though some of the other studies I'd read highlighted enzyme differences between people in terms of the levels of each, which isn't too surprising really.

I wonder if these differences in enzyme levels are enough to cause this experience [in some people] to be dampened, enough so to only reach sub-threshold/threshold effects? I don't think it's out've the realm of possibility.

That's why I'm asking about changa, and the ratios of dmt:harmala used if changa indeed was used.

Something to think about. Through smoking harmalas you're inhibiting these enzymes within the brain, allowing DMT to saturate itself moreso than if it were you just vaporizing DMT by itself, allowing it to stick around longer in order to give it's effect/s, without being broken down nearly as readily.

You don't even have to make a changa blend of any sort. Harmalas could just be smoked on some smokeable form of leaf, allowing a minute or two afterwards, then vaporizing DMT. Harmalas also could be used sublingually, allowing the 5-10 minutes for them to absorb, then shortly after vaporiazing DMT. I'm almost certain that doing one of these methods would result in a much stronger experience versus just having vaped DMT alone.

If he's on any contraindicated meds in relation to this, then this route might not be ideal depending.


 
downwardsfromzero
#3 Posted : 7/28/2020 7:32:26 PM

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Quote:
In earlier life he had a period of daily use of Aprophene


https://ru.wikipedia.org...D0%BE%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%BD
It seems to be an anticholinergic nerve gas antidote. Substances of this type can cause permanent brain changes. It's similar to atropine. While this doesn't seem likely to be a direct cause of DMT insensitivity, on the other hand one might consider the way Datura can be used to enhance tryptamine visions and draw some kind of a connection there.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Exitwound
#4 Posted : 7/31/2020 7:48:56 AM

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Thanks for good advice guys.

I will definitely make my friend try the harmala way.

I have boiled syrian rue seeds to make a crude extract, but foolishly added food soda (bicarbonate) instead of sodium carbonate into the syrian rue soup - can it still be salvaged?
 
tatt
#5 Posted : 8/1/2020 1:04:30 AM

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Exitwound wrote:
Thanks for good advice guys.

I will definitely make my friend try the harmala way.

I have boiled syrian rue seeds to make a crude extract, but foolishly added food soda (bicarbonate) instead of sodium carbonate into the syrian rue soup - can it still be salvaged?


Yeah definitely let us know what happens. Smile

Definitely curious to know if that works. Maybe try 40-50mg harmala on some smokeable form of leaf prior to vaping the DMT. I've even done 20-30mg harmala freebase smoked prior to vaporizing DMT with a fairly strong potentiating effect.

The harmalas when smoked hit pretty immediate, you feel it pretty quickly within the head, so vaping DMT right after can be done with zero to no waiting time.

Or you could do the same milligram amount of harmalas as above but do the sublingual route prior to vaporizing DMT instead. The onset take a couple minutes longer for them to set into effect [ime], a tad bit less of a immediate effect from the harmalas versus smoking them.

** Harmalas do need smoked though versus vaporizing, harmalas typically don't vaporize too well, they require a higher temperature for the full effect of them to be gotten.



Sorry, never have went the sodium carbonate route, so I don't know if I can help there. I know sodium bicarbonate can be somewhat troublesome to dissolve fully into solution [and is a fairly weak base].

Only ever done harmala extraction with a sodium hydroxide tek [Gibrans Easy Caapi Freebase Tek] for syrian rue, since it takes very little and dissolves very easily, though using sodium hydroxide a few polar washes were needed to bring the ph of the freebase extract down a bit, remove excess sodium hydroxide, etc.

I'm guessing the rue tea could still be easily salvaged, I think you should just be able to run the rue tea through a fine filter to catch any potential solids of the bicarbonate [if there is any], then add/dissolve the required sodium carbonate to the tea afterwards til the correct ph is gotten, clean up afterwards as necessary, etc. [Anyone correct me if I'm wrong on this].
 
downwardsfromzero
#6 Posted : 8/1/2020 11:19:49 PM

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Boiling will cause caustic baking soda to decompose into sodium carbonate so that might be a simple first step to try out before adding anything else to the mix.

[EDIT]: proof-read, dammit!!
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
fathomlessness
#7 Posted : 8/3/2020 2:11:20 AM

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tatt wrote:
[quote=Exitwound]
Have you tried changa with him?

Reason I say this is because maybe it's possible that the level of the MAO-A enzyme within his brain is somewhat more elevated than most folks.


This was exactly my thoughts with a friend who was a non-responder to both mushrooms and dmt... even at doses pushing toward 100mg! Shocked No, I didn't dose them with nearly 100mg to start with. A gradual increase from 10mg consistently saw no effect but only irritated lungs.

On another day some time later I gave them shroomahuasca. About 300-400mg of harmala-hcl as well as 2.5g cubensis. It was a hell of a ride for them, lets just say that. After this event they seemed to respond relatively normally to DMT and mushrooms again without the use of harmala. Although I suspect they do seem to be on the low sensitivity side of dosage and even at high doses still hang about in the waiting room more often than not.

Does this mean my friend fit in to the so called "2% of the population" that are "non-responders" to DMT? I'm not sure. Nor am I sure whether MAO enzymes are the cause of this. Correlation is not causation remember.
 
 
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