Hi everyone.

SWIM really really needs some opinions, well he hopes for as many as possible, hopefully from people with some great experience or even better some chemist. SWIM has been researching for months to make a safe extraction and I will describe what he tried, results and so on.

So, before he even started to get everything needed, the first and biggest problem he stumbled across was getting a VM&P naphtha, which is supposed to be most preffered.

Considering it is impossible to get it in EU, he was researching for alternatives online for weeks, if not even months. He couldn't even get a "petroleum ether 40/60" which is supposed to be a good alternative.

He then remembered a guy he went to a psy festival together, who had some experience with DMT and extracting his own, he also went to several ayahuasca seasons and knows some "Shamans" so he figured it would be his best and only choice to ask him.

The guy said he should get a "Medicinal benzine" at pharmacy. So he went for it. But that stuff was very expensive (6,5€/100ml). He went for it, made few extractions and yielded very little(Less then 0,5% from inner MHRB) before he gained some experience and was able to get better at it.. He wasted over a litre which costed a lot, do the math yourself. And he didn't even get half a gram out of it.

He then also went to buy some coleman's fuel, transparent liquid, on bottle it says: Naphta(Petroleum), hydrotreated, light; n-Pentane, Heptane. The product was much cheaper. But the smell was way worse then with medicinal benzine, and it evaporated very poorly, he had to make a heat bath and let the water boiling for quite a long time for it to evaporate. It left a residue and smelt bad. When he touched it, there was an oily residue on his fingers. So he decided that is a NO GO.

He then tryed a cleaning benzine avaliable in paint stores, which is stated to leave no residue after evaporation. This one smelled similar to medicinal benzine, with a hint of some other smell. It is cheaper because it is ment for cleaning and not to use at hospitals so it is not as pure. It evaporated much better then colemans, but also left a residue, not much but there was, and was also a bit oily to the touch. So he decided he wouldn't use that.

Searching for other options, he wasn't able to get anything more pure then medicinal benzine from pharmacy, which is basically petroleum ether, also called WUNDBENZIN in germany, and it's used to clean around wounds, removing adhesive of patches from skin..

He then found 2 sellers online with wundbenzin from germany, where anyone could order it, other offers didn't allow normal people to order it. Most common is wundbenzin 40/60, but he decided for wundbenzine 40/65. It has a lower boiling point then the one from local pharmacy, but by smell it was almost identical, maybe even a bit softer smell. Here is the link to the product:
https://www.medicalcorne...c24-surgical-spirit.html

It is not actually a spirit, it's just the translation, on german website its wundbenzine. It's been made by DIN and DAB ( Deutsches Arzneibuch ) standards. It is supposed to be used for medical ablutions, pharmacy, medicine, industry, cleaning sector, detergent industry, hospitals and to remove adhesives. It's stated it is a pure product. It has an UN3295.

After researching, SWIM figured many people in EU use wundbenzine, and some say its way superior then VM&P naptha.

The result of evaporation test from both local pharmacy product "Medicinal benzine" and "Wundbenzine 40/65" was the same. There is a bit of transparent residue left after evaporation, but there is no smell left after it evaporates and when he cleaned the residue with a finger, there was no oily feel or anything on finger and also no smell. If needed, i can post a few pictures he took of a residue. It is similar as if you left water to evaporate, but transparent, no white stuff like limescale in tap water. It could easly be removed with a finger with few scratches.

So what do you guys think, is he good to go? It is his only option and he always does freeze precipitate, so i guess even if there is a trace of residue, it shouldn't be precipitated out with crystals or in really really small quantites?

When it comes to extraction, same results were with medical benzine from local pharmacy as with wundbenzin 40/65 from online pharmacy from Germany where he ordered it, only the second one evapored at lower temps(Boiling at around 60°-70C).
In both cases when doing cold extractions, yields were low, but crystals were almost totally white. With adding some heat to solution, he got way better pulls, but a bit more yellow tint to it.. Still way more white then pictures online from people using VM&P naphtha. He only used A/B first time, took a lot of time for cooking and yielded very little, and most was yellow spice, similar to those photos of people using Naphtha, and 1/4 of yield was snowy white. He then used STB for further extractions and results seemed way better and it took very little time compared to A/B tek for extraction.

Another thing is that solvent never came clear out of freezer, even after precipitation and putting yellow solvent back to refreeze, almost no crystals came out anymore but solvent stayed pretty yellow. He is pretty sure most of plant oils and fats stays in solvent. Very little yellow/orange goo was extracted, just on a small spot, and everywhere else around there were white or slightly yellow crystals. Mostly crystals very really pretty and fluffy. He rather throws away the remaining yellow solvent after few uses just to be sure.

SWIM thinks that most products stated as "wundbenzin" would be much the same, as mostly all are made by DAB german pharmacopoeia standards.

Unfortunately he could not get his hands on data sheet, as there was problem with communication with both sellers with wundbenzine online, where anyone can order it. He did send them another email just today, used google translate and is hoping to get the document.

SWIM really wants to be safe, it is about 2 month ago first extractions were made, and he didn't bother to test it yet, he doesn't want to rush into it until he feels safe and the "call" to do it.

He didn't even bother to re-x, because it looks so clean, at least by colour, and most of crystals seem to dry up after freeze precipitation very quickly with the fan blowing over them. Of course he left them to dry for a day or so, to let any remaining solvent to evaporate. And after packing the extract, when he checked it after few days, if there was still some slight smell of solvent, he left the pack open for some more possible evaporation of solvent.

So what are your opinions?

I hope this post isn't way too long. SWIM has read all he could find online, but he needs a more direct answers to his specific situation and worries.

Hoping to get some good experienced answers. Please help him be safe

Wundbenzin (also Waschbenzin) 60-80 °C (C6-C7, < 5 % Hexane) is the best spice extractor in Germany. Just buy 1 L for ~ 6 € in any hardware store.

Wundbenzin 40-60 °C has a much lower solubility regarding DMT, so the 60-80 should be favorized.

Hardware stores in Austria should have it, too, I think.

Waschbenzine SWIM believes is the same as washing benzine i mentioned SWIM got from paint store which is ment for cleaning and is not as pure as wundbenzine, which is medicinal grade. It is like 4,5€ per liter and it is indeed c6-c7, it is stated on label, but it does not evaporate as clean as wundbenzine. It is stated there is no residue after evaporation, yet there was some when he tested it. Therefore SWIM decided to use Wundbenzine.

He gained some experience how to extract and how much heating is needed using 40/65 even though it has low boiling point and in last extraction with 20g MHRB he got 0,268g of spice which is pretty decent amount. He also likes low boiling point because it is so quick to reduce with heat bath before freeze precipitation if needed and it also evaps very fast on room temperature. He figured reducing at least 50% of solvent before freezing, it precipitates much better.

Besides different boiling point, considering by smell he believes it is very similar product, just that waschbenzine is not as pure, that is probably why it is 50% cheaper then wundbenzine. He got wundbenzine 40/65 online for around 8€ per liter, althought the shipping was almost 20€, so he ordered 3 liters. Still way better then the one from local pharmacy for 100ml 6,5€ and it seems much like the same product, it will also last quite some time.

The only concern he has is that slight transparent residue which is left after evaporation even with wundbenzine, still less then with waschbenzine, that is why i am asking here for him. The residue is seen under the right angle, it is not as obvious if light doesnt reflect the right way.

When he put only 2-3 drops on mirror, there was not really any residue seen, but when he poured half the cap of solvent over the mirror or so, there was some slight residue.

SWIM also asked the guy he ordered MHRB from online store about it, and the guy said to use colemans fuel, the same product which he tryed and left nasty OILY residue and smelled so bad, and hardly evaporated. The guy also recommended Wasbenzine (He is from Netherlands) and he believes it is probably the same as waschbenzine. But SWIM didn't like what was left after evaporation.

edit: Oh, and that expensive medicinal (wund)benzine from local pharmacy did have higher boiling point, it did start to boil before water started to boil in heat bath, so it was probably around 60-80°C, but it did not pull any better then 40/65. He got better results with 40/65 when he gained some experience and figured how much the solution should be heated, he never got such yield mentioned above from last extraction, when using the one with higher boiling point. Or maybe he just needed more experience and practice.

So it is really just the residue that bothers him and he really hopes someone can confirm whether or not it is ok..

What does the solvent aisle look like in a European paint store? Why no naphtha in Europe? Are there aromatics there, xylene and toluene? What do professional painters use in these countries?

Imo any residue after evaporation is always an issue if you want to fully evaporate the solvent in your extraction.
For Freeze precip or salting with acidic water it is not that crucial as you separate the product differently.

I am not sure, but think that naphtha and benzine are just different names for same or very similar solvent.

If good benzine is too expensive, it is convenient to extract into xylene or toluene and then do another A/B cycle with using benzine. You can use less amount of benzine that way.

IMO Wasch-benzin yields very good results with white crystals. I believe it might not be the same as Wundbenzin though different brands' waschbenzin can also be different I suppose. The initial tests I've seen showed no stains left though they were in large amounts as you tried.

The expensive "wundbenzine" in local pharmacy is much the same product with same results then the one ordered from Germany for 8€, so it is nonsense to use other solvents and then using that benzine.. Only difference is boiling point.

Here are some photos, the first photo is a jar that was cleaned prior evaporation test, second photo is of jar after evaporation of around 6ml of solvent, there is some dust in it. The jar is scratched a bit, as SWIM used this for first extractions, but was pain in the ass to get xtals out. The residue is so little it is not really well seen on photo actually.

On third and forth photo there is some residue visible on mirror, but only after pouring half a cap of solvent over it. When only 2 drops or so were put on the mirror, there was not really any residue seen after evaporation. After all SWIM won't be evaporating solvent but rather only freeze precipitate. He tryed to evaporate the remaining of pretty yellow solvent and there was no xtals at all, just yellow gooey shit left. So no waste at all..

Hey dyoode

Using Wundbenzin since i first tried it. Product is superclean white fluffy crystals.
Just watch out for the low boiling point. It evaporates pretty quickly.

Hope this helps. Have a gud one

You get blended crap like this:
https://toom.de/p/univer...-verduenner-05-l/8500230
= acetone mixed with hydrocarbons, some brands have butyl acetates as well.

Naphtha is just another name for volatile aliphatic hydrocarbon blends and these will be found under names such as "Wundbenzin", "Waschbenzin", "Terpentinersatz", and "Petroleum, entaromatisiert".

You'd have to look quite hard, and in the right place, to find toluene or xylene.

That's crazy. Painters use different solvent depending on application and type of paint. There are even two different types of VM&P naphtha: slow drying and fast drying. I don't understand why these things are not available in such an old established part of the world.

I wish one of our German brethren would send me an Ehle bong.

In my country (also Europe), situation is very similar. Lot of strange mixed solvents, and clean acetone, toluene or benzine (even ethanol) are not easily available.

But profesional painters have access to different solvents than common public.

You can find anything, but you need to know where. Definitely not in typical hardware store.

SWIM tryed to find xylene and toulene prior discovering wundbenzin and he couln't find any.

Regarding question what professional painters use as diluents, thinners and so on, he does not have an experience with that to answer this question, but looking online what is sold as thinners and diluents and cleaners there are mostly: Acetone, Nitro (He used that at work to clean metallic parts, it is very powerful cleaning agent, but leaves some white residue and it cannot be used to clean plastic as it melts it. It is also used to diluate nitro colors, then there are synthetic diluents, terpentine, petroleum, cleaning benzine(waschbenzine) and few others.

He did another evap test in the morning with wundbenzin in same jar as on photos, with around 3ml of benzin and has put a tea filter over the jar to avoid dust and after 2 hours when he checked it evaporated and there was no residue visible at all, only some dust in it. He is confused. Could it be some kind of oxidation from air/oxygen that caused that halo seen on photos from mirror??? Also there was no smell from solvent present in the jar.. He poured in another almost 10ml of solvent and is now waiting for results..

So after evaporation of another test as mentioned above, there was no visible residue at all. He did yet another test and same results. But when sliding finger across the bottom of jar or with a paper towel, there was some very little traces of oily residue seen. But not without touching it, none at all.

So what are your opinions? Is he good with that product and considering he won't be evaporating, only reducing before freeze precipitation.

P.S. Requesting the msds, they want SWIM's order number now, he doesn't feel too safe with that, as he also used different email so it wouldn't be suspicous for some reason.

And one more thing, the expensive benzine from local pharmacy, which gave same evaporation results with little residue and seems like the same product except for BP, on a label there is no data of containments but it says: Contains benzine, without additional substances.

SWIM is loosing his mind. Please help with your opinions, you guys here are his only hope.

By way of reassurance, benzine is not the same as benzene. A pharmacy would not sell anything containing the known carcinogen benzene, at least not above a very low limit of concentration.

The evaporation 'residue' can result from redistribution of a very thin film of tenacious grease that was already sticking to the evaporation test surface. This would give rise to the rainbow effect in the same way as soap bubbles do - wave interference from two phase boundary reflections at close proximity.

No, it is benzine not benzene, that is for sure.

There is no rainbow effect, and in last test SWIM tryed to slide the paper towel over the jar prior to test, to see if there was already something there although he did clean the jars prior to testing, and there was none. SWIM used vinegar to clean the jar first, and then distilled water after that and wiped dry with paper towel(Fresh towel from roll everytime).
However SWIM noticed that touching glass with fingers it leaves finger prints and when sliding finger on the bottom of the jar there is much more "oily residue" to be seen, so some of it is from fingers for sure.
Using only paper towel after evap. test there was way less of this "residue" to be seen, but still a little bit. However there has to be a light source behind when looking through jar and the right angle to see it, its so little residue.
But as mentioned before, no residue was seen without touching or wiping with paper towel after evaporation.

After 3 tests from wundbenzin 40/65, SWIM tryed another evap. test with benzin from local pharmacy(The one mentioned it costs 6,5€ per 100ml, and says it contains benzine without additional substances), as he had one bottle left and after evaporation it left more residue, then wundbenzin 40/65.

Is he safe? Would you guys use it if there was no other option for a solvent? Is he just too paranoid? He would like to test the product in the coming or next weekend.

Look, if you're that worried, just learn how to distill your solvents [SAFELY! - This, of course, raises its own set of issues.]

And build yourself a microgram scale to test your evaporation residues objectively.

Otherwise, just use the Waschbenzin for the pulls, freeze precipitate, then recrystallize using the Wundbenzin.

I'm starting to think so.


This could be interpreted as implying that the residue came from your finger and/or the paper towel. Have a nice, long think about that.

What do you mean by microgram scale to test residue? SWIM has a scale that is 0,001g accurate. Do you have any source of information how to distill it? He was looking around, but yet couldn't find anything for benzine. Would a destillator for ethanol be effective? He was looking into that. But those are not cheap and he wasted sooo much money already trying different solvents he could get his hands on.

Also why would using waschbenzine be any better to pull with? With waschbenzine he could get in his country there seemed to be a bit more of residue then with wundbenzin, although it says it leaves no residue after evaporation for the product. The waschbenzine contains on label are: hydrocarbons, c6-c7, n-alkans, isoalkans, cyclic, <5% n-hexan, hydrocarbons, c6, isoalkans, <5% n-hexan. No idea why some things are written twice on label. By the smell it is pretty much identical to wundbenzin he is using. Unfortunately nothing about containments on wundbenzin label or on website from shop either.

He wouldn't be so paranoid if all sources online weren't saying there should absolutely be no residue left after test, but everywhere people say don't use it if there is any.

Thanks for helping!

I mean, if you really wanted to know how much residue each solvent left, you'd weigh a piece of alu foil, place a measured quantity of solvent on it to evaporate, then weigh it again afterwards. Your scale would need a resolution of micrograms, which is 0.000001g.

Waschbenzin would be better to pull with because it is cheaper. Because it leaves more residue, I advise recrystallizing with the cleaner, more expensive Wundbenzin. Wundbenzin will conform to a specific standard because it is a pharmaceutical product. You can find out what that standard is by looking in the appropriate regulatory documentation.

Distillation operates according to a general set of principles. You need to research this for yourself, ideally within an educational setting. In this instance it presents a serious flammability hazard so you'd really need to know what you're doing. And really, it's neither necessary nor desirable for you to distill your solvents if you have no practical experience of doing so.

I stand by my previous solvent recommendation. If you are freeze precipitating, you really have nothing to worry about.

Thank you so much, SWIM really wanted to hear that

Waschbenzin really is cheaper, but paying 4,5€ for liter or 8-9€ for liter of wundbenzin online really makes no point to re-x and complicate about the price difference. Considering the information about how much the spice costs around here per gram and you don't know what you get and how it's made, it makes no point bothering about this price difference.
Shipping from other country for benzine really costs as much as 2 liters or even a little bit more, but when ordering, SWIM prefer to order, lets say 3 liters and the postage is the same for 1 liter or more and that will last a loong long time..
And for self consumption of spice and how much can be extracted with that amount he really wouldn't bother about that price difference. It will last really long time. Its just safety and harm reduction that matters the most to SWIM.

I think SWIM won't be bothering so much anymore about that little "residue", and will do freeze precipitation anyways so probably only trace amount if anything would get to end product.

If anyone disagrees, please give your opinion, he will check on the post here and there.

Thank you again for confirming this! SWIM really appreciates it, can't tell you how much this confirmation matters!

Have a great time.

One more thing, it may be useful to someone. Last evap. test SWIM did, he washed the jar with soap and then rinsed with distilled water and after evaporation this time he didn't use finger nor paper towel to slide on the bottom, but rather used a washed piece of clothes. He didn't see any residue this time. Also nearly 10ml evaporated.