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Phalaris Project Options
 
dithyramb
#1 Posted : 4/20/2020 9:41:50 PM

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Dear Nexians,

I am on to a project to create an efficacious and sustainable Eurasian ayahuasca analogue. I have established a mixture of a certain strain of syrian rue and russian olive as the base.

I have worked with imported plants (all of the popular species) for over ten years (with over a thousand experiences) for the dmt bearing admixture. Recently I had my first experience with wild harvested Phalaris aquatica and it inspired and motivated me further to pursue my calling to the grass to complete this medicine.

I have been reading the research and I am surprised at the amount of data provided and seeming lack of people utilizing these gifts of Nature.

Years ago I had come upon Phalaris brachystachys and was going to try it until people scared me about the potential 5-MeO-DMT content and it's potential lethality when combined with an MAOI. I had collected a lot of seeds and just this year I was able to plant them, but it appears they have lost their viability by now.

I had been called specifically to P. brachystachys for years but now I am researching on Aquatica, which appears to have been the most researched species. I feel attracted to aquatica, but I also want to ally brachystachys to increase my likelihood of reaching an efficacious medicine as soon as I can.

Now I have some unanswered questions which I would like to ask your help to answer...

1) The information on cultivation appears to be mostly about P. aquatica which is a perennial species. Do the principles of cutting for more potent regrowth in the Fall apply to brachystachys (which is an annual species)?

2) In strains which are not purely DMT in their alkaloid content, are there ways to boost the DMT ratio over other alkaloids? Does harvesting at dawn do this? Does harvesting in the Fall do this? Or are all alkaloids non-selectively amplified?

3) In strains which are not purely DMT in their alkaloid content, are there seasonal differences in ratios of dmt vs 5-meo-dmt or hordenine and gramine?

4) Are there any people familiar with the effects of hordenine and/or the effects of gramine? What is your latest view on the purported toxicity of these alkaloids? Many plants or alkaloids that are said to be toxic turn out to be benign in my experience. Either way I would like to know the effects of these alkaloids so I can guess which alkaloids the strains I am working with contain, and I can have a better idea of what is best avoided.

5) Do you know of any crude phalaris extract + maoi experience which resulted in dangerous side effects because of non-dmt alkaloids? I am especially curious about 5-MeO-DMT because there are considerable amount of warnings about mixing it with an maoi, and there is at least one death report. I have yet to encounter a report of an experience giving dangerous side effects from crude phalaris extract + maoi. Why could this be? Are there not enough experiences of crude extract ayahuasca analogues yet to really know the safety profile of the grasses? Could there be a sort of balancing off / buffering effect of the total alkaloid synergy in the plants which render 5-meo-dmt benign with syrian rue?

6) If enzymatic processes destroy much of the dmt in the plant when dried, is there another way for storing plant material for long term usage?

That's it for now. Thank you so much for your help.

 

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jamie
#2 Posted : 4/21/2020 3:33:36 AM

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Hello diethy...

I have taken the australian cultivar from my garden a number of times in a brew with rue and cubensis without any negative effects that I can recall. I moved cities 3 times this year and managed to get all my plants(100 + cacti etc) to where I am now, except for that aquatica. It was a really nice plant to grow with definite tryptamine power. The extract when vaped felt like 5-MeO-DMT was present to some extent in the extract. I felt fine taking it with harmalas...but I dont want to put that out there as a guideline for anyone to follow. I only took the plant maybe 5-6 times total. I have also vapcorized extract from random seed grown aquatica, and while it yielded less than the australian cultivar and perhaps was more shifted towards the 5-MeO, it was still worthwhile and topped my experiences with brachystachys and all but one lone experience with wild arundinacea extract about 15 years ago.

I dunno how or why, but I hit the jackpot once and got an extract from arundinacea harvested from under the snow, that totally blew me away. It must have had a good ammount of 5-MeO-DMT in it. I suspect weather and temperature, seasons etc can greatly effect species like arundinacea. Aquatica I hoped was more stable, and I think that probly is true. It's a good one for people to start planting.

I have high alkaloid arundinacea clones here and have been drinking Russian olive, but I have concerns about combining an MAO-B inhibator with some stimulating compounds like hordenine(even though it itself inhibits the same enzyme)..

 
dithyramb
#3 Posted : 4/21/2020 6:17:23 PM

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Thanks a lot, Jamie. I remember you mentioning that you experienced an uncomfortable stimulating effect from phalaris before. Which species or strains was that with? Was it in combination with an maoi? Are you certain that it was caused by hordenine?

I am becoming aware that my blood pressure has been raised since my experience. The stimulation was in fact a spike in blood pressure. Could that be from hordenine or 5 Meo dmt, or both?

...


Here is another question for the Nexus community: I just discovered that there is a practically unlimited supply of wild Phalaris paradoxa growing in my vicinity. Is there anybody who has considerable experience with this plant? How feasible is it? What is the alkaloid makeup?

And: are there any vendors you would recommend for brachystachys and/or aq1 seeds?
 
Era/is
#4 Posted : 4/21/2020 9:40:53 PM

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dithyramb wrote:


4) Are there any people familiar with the effects of hordenine and/or the effects of gramine? What is your latest view on the purported toxicity of these alkaloids? Many plants or alkaloids that are said to be toxic turn out to be benign in my experience. Either way I would like to know the effects of these alkaloids so I can guess which alkaloids the strains I am working with contain, and I can have a better idea of what is best avoided.



The effects of gramine are: feeling of having the highest body temperature, diarrhea, vomiting and tremors. This is for relatively strong poisonings, which I felt in person. Gramine is dangerous.
This for singular ingestions, for long-term effects after frequent uses I do not know, because I perform processes that leave as far as possible what the post listed before and the side effects of long term use of dmt come before.
Hordenine at food doses is not toxic. Years ago I used for a good period (months, frequent use) infusions of still green ears of hordeum vulgare and I had no negative effects.

In your experience you feel a given happiness, have you also seen the plant in the immaterial?
 
Fran
#5 Posted : 4/22/2020 12:39:53 AM
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dithyramb wrote:

And: are there any vendors you would recommend for brachystachys and/or aq1 seeds?


Hi folks, Hi Dithyramb,

Aq1 is a clone, you can't use plants from seeds because plants from seeds doesn't always have same chemical profile as parents -seeds are the result of a genetic recombination-, it's better to have cuttings to keep exactly same chemical profile than parents..

For P.brachystachys, I've found my strain at : https://www.asklepios-se...rachystachys-samen.html

In my culture, P.brachystachys is very tough grow, and very generous producing seeds ..Plants are not always annual, they can live two years, but I think it's just because of the climat of my area , as this species is indigenous in my country and especially near my area ..
Good luck to you !
 
dithyramb
#6 Posted : 4/22/2020 11:12:34 PM

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How is your experience with Russian olive so far, Jamie? It's one of my main allies now since a few years.

Thanks for the replies, era/is and Fran.

I did not experience those symptoms, era/is. And I felt the plant spirit very much. I can write more about it with more experience.

Right, AQ1 is a clone. So then what is ordered is rhizomes..?


I'm scheduled to bioassay wild harvested aquatica, paradoxa, and what I believe to be brachystachys. I discovered that aquatica and paradoxa are found practically limitlessly in the area that I recently moved to.

The brachystachys seems more mysterious and not found so easily. Some of the clumps are pretty large for what I read the the size of brachy to be, and I know that would normally be a sign that it is canariensis. But the seeds are exactly as how brachystachys seeds are shown here (and not like the canariensis seeds shown there) with the attached pieces on the butts

http://sharetheseeds.me/...hp/seeds/21-sg-phalaris

I collected 20g fresh foliage... I should bioassay it with rue within one week. Photos are of this plant. What's your take on the id?


....

New question: Could it be considered that the proper harvesting time for phalaris is autumn, whether they are clipped in the summer or not? Could it be that the alkaloid profile becomes more tame with the non tryptamines at this time also?

And the alkaloid content progression goes form high when young, lower when mature, and highest when resurrected with autumn rainfall (and even higher yet if clipped before this). Does that sound right?
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Chimp Z
#7 Posted : 4/23/2020 1:29:32 AM

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Hey Phalaris family,
here's some old notes of research and experiences with the grasses.
Hope they serve you well.
(PPPA1.5 is in a weird format because it is designed to be printed
and folded into a booklet/zine)
<3
 
dithyramb
#8 Posted : 4/23/2020 6:35:01 PM

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Thanks a lot, phalaris pioneer.

Here are better photos of the seedheads and some mature seeds from my purported brachystachys. Either this is a huge variety of brach. or it's a variety of canariensis which has seeds like brach. As long as it provides a healthy and strong light to the brew... 🌈
dithyramb attached the following image(s):
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Era/is
#9 Posted : 4/23/2020 8:08:28 PM

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dithyramb wrote:

I did not experience those symptoms, era/is. And I felt the plant spirit very much. I can write more about it with more experience.

I read your experience, I'm glad you appreciate this friend.

From what I understand you used 20g. At such dosages you may just perceive side effects, but it is not said. I tried with 100g.

I would have an anecdote about brachystachys: less than ten years ago at the university of my city they had done studies on this plant as a possible powerful anti-cancer ... I can't find the page anymore, as if it's gone.

Correction:
- you used 100g right?
- you reported 'And it was strongly purgative. I am impressed.'
Vinegar or acid ph are purgative, also gramine is purgative (light intoxication).
- there wasn't any side effect like the described?
- every strain i think has typical alkaloid amount
- have you used maoi's, in which dosage?

I'm using young plants high 15 cm and they have bigger amounts of dmt.

 
dithyramb
#10 Posted : 4/25/2020 2:22:29 AM

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Phalaris family. A huge thanks to Jamie and chimp z for providing the inspiration and pioneering work on these medicines for me. I owe both of you guys ❤️

Today I did my second experiment with rue and aquatica. I did not have the opportunity to go to the area I picked the last aquatica, but I came across a field of it closer by. So they might be different strains. The field was actually a wheat field that has been fertilized with nitrogen. Some of the aquatica I measured to be over 160cm. And I actually harvested at dawn this time. So my expectations were high. However, I got negligible to no recognizable tryptamine effect this time, despite consuming 140g worth of fresh blade tea.

Something is strange, from very powerful Divine opening to no effect at all?

Apart from possible differences based on strain, this time I didn't include the flowerheads, and also I did not use so much vinegar in the preparation.

Does water acidity make such a dramatic difference with phalaris?

And what about the flowerheads? I have not come upon any information regarding their potency.


Era/is, yes, in my first experiment I consumed a tea of 100 blades which also had 50g flowerheads in it. I drank 5g rue first.
The only side effect I felt was strong stimulation.

If every strain has similar alkaloid amount as you say, why do you think it did not work in my second experiment (140g blades, no flowerheads, and 5g rue)?

It is very interesting what you say about very young plants. I would like to have conclusive information on which phase of development is best to harvest. Thank you.
 
dithyramb
#11 Posted : 4/25/2020 10:48:51 AM

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Update: smoking the raw paradoxa leaves gives a clear, pleasant high.
 
Chimp Z
#12 Posted : 4/25/2020 10:31:49 PM

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Great work. Thank you too!
Did you drink the 150g by itself or with MAOI?
Some Aquatica strains can be low alkaloid and if they were tall
I think that’s even more probability they could be older
stands with less tryptamines. That’s not 100% but could be the cause.
Next time search around the field for newer and shorter shoots of grass
but make sure it’s Phalaris and not wheat.
In regards to the photos you recently posted;
If your grass above in the picture is taller like Canariensis but has tiny seeds
it very well could be Phalaris Minor.
They can have medium fat flowers like Canariensis or longer like Aquatica, it varies.
Smaller darker seeds are a good indicator for Minor. Canariensis usually has the largest seeds out of any Phalaris.
The seeds on Minor & Canariensis are edible and people make bread & milk with them.
Check around the patch and compare seed heads.

And for Phalaris flower power, the only Phalaris seedheads ive ever gotten the slightest effects from smoking were
Purple-tinged Phalaris Arundinacea flowers that I smoked in a pipe back in 2014-15.
There were slight visual ripples that I’m sure were not placebo. I haven’t been able to replicate those experiences
with any other Phalaris flower or seed-head. So I’m not saying the flowers are active or inactive but I don’t think that’s where
alkaloids really position themselves in the plant. Maybe the grass wants birds to munch the seedheads eventually and carry their seeds to new locations. Since Phalaris Arundinacea spreads by rhizomes aggressively it doesn’t need to rely on seed-dispersal for survival. That’s my own opinionated speculation on the possibilities of tryptamines in Phalaris flower.
You might have better luck with alkaloid-bearing flowers if you find a monoculture field of Phalaris Arundinacea or Aquatica since they both can spread by rhizomes and don’t completely rely on seed dispersal.
Even then, the flowers may yield disappointing results for medicine.
I find better use in either collecting the seeds to share, plant for research at home, or making decorative floral arrangements because Phalaris flowers are super pretty.
 
Era/is
#13 Posted : 4/26/2020 7:52:14 AM

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dithyramb wrote:

Era/is, yes, in my first experiment I consumed a tea of 100 blades which also had 50g flowerheads in it. I drank 5g rue first.

Thanks, I've seen later the term used for the rue.

As for the effects you've reported, I think Chimp Z already explained a lot.
Ears have a relatively low alkaloid content (i think also gramine). As well as the seeds even less - just think of the milk of seeds of phalaris canariensis that is used to be drunk (https://healthyusa.co/alpiste-seed-milk-review/7384/).

Quote:

It is very interesting what you say about very young plants. I would like to have conclusive information on which phase of development is best to harvest. Thank you.

If I am not mistaken in the document of festi and samorini is reported what I have nevertheless found: that the younger plants have a much higher alkaloid content.
With 20 grams of foils of plants old months (grown in pots) you can obtain dmt crystals with simple acid-base operations (so i think they could have 5:1 amount of alkaloids.
I think plants give us what you want from them, it's a matter of friendshipVery happy

I report a recent topic in which I described one of the many systems for refining liquids obtained from sour-phase phalaris. If there are problems for translating, I am fully available to delucidating what is needed.
It is a purification that aims to stave off what is not necessary and leads to a smoking product (obviously also drinkable, but to get a more fruity flavor I would say that citric acid should be the most suitable) obtained without non-food products:
https://psiconauti.net/f...?f=8&t=37737#p95492



As I said, your experience led me to consider a system that I had eliminated, since I do not use MAO inhibitors.
I recently observed that the oleolite and dyeing of hypericum perforatum, used to massage the legs (so for well-being and nothing else), gives me an extra boost when I use the extracts of holcus and phalaris.
Who knows what is the mechanism of action for inhibitors taken through the skin.
From this I have inferred that massaging the whole body with the juice (water and oil) of olives could bring effects (and anyway health/aesthetic benefits).
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxytyrosol - I repeat, only for external use to do some tests.
 
dithyramb
#14 Posted : 4/26/2020 1:42:46 PM

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Chimp z, I always drink rue in my experiments. My context is to find a workable partner to the rue that I am closely allied with.

I will look for young plants next time, thank you chimp z and era/is.

...

Wow, era/is! The P. canariensis as healthy human food is very interesting!

...

The seeds of the exciting new species are pretty big. To me it seems P. minor is ruled out and I am leaning on brachystachys. It was growing next to an irrigation channel, another possible reason for it's size. Will try it today, tea from 10g fresh blades. If it shows the slightest activity at that dose, it will be great news.

According to literature, the dmt percentage in some plants are (dried weight):

Psychotria viridis 0.3% (DMT containing admixture of ayahuasca)

Diplopterys cabrerana: 0.15 - 1.75% (DMT containing admixture of yage)

Acacia confusa: 1.15% (+1.45% NMT)

Mimosa tenuiflora: 1 - 1.7%

Phalaris aquatica: up to over 1% along with other alkaloids, relatively more consistent than other Phalaris species except brachystachys.

Phalaris brachystachys: up to 3% and the most consistently potent among the Phalaris species.
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dithyramb
#15 Posted : 4/27/2020 8:02:42 PM

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10g fresh with rue gave threshold effects. I completed it with liberty caps at the second hour mark. Hoping to make a bigger harvest in the coming days.
 
dithyramb
#16 Posted : 4/29/2020 8:00:56 PM

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Alright, paradoxa is to be bioassayed soon.

I have been uprooting a lot of phalaris, cutting the tops off and planting the bottoms in my garden. The wild ones are drying fast and in this way I will have more time to test and select certain strains. İt's been one week for some and they appear alive with some side seedheads growing but no new blade development. What is the right way to clip phalaris? I have taken care to leave the bottom blades so they can continue to photosynthesize. I wonder why new blades are not developing... Could it be that they need time to heal the roots from being uplifted before engaging vegetative growth? Needless to say, İ give them ample water.
 
dithyramb
#17 Posted : 4/29/2020 8:02:27 PM

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Here is another ubiquitous and abundant grass which just could be a Phalaris species. Rely minuscule.
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dithyramb
#18 Posted : 5/1/2020 2:09:40 PM

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Thank you chimp z.

I have read that the "young clorophyllaceus tissue" has the highest alkaloid concentrations. I wonder if that that would mean that fresh, soft stems and freshly developing flowerheads should not be discarded. Also, what about the leaf-like casing that the fresh florets are wrapped around?

Also, does anyone have an idea where hordenine is most concentrated? In one study it was shown to be highest in sheaths, in the regrowth. Could i assume that would apply to original growths as well? I have the gut feeling that Hordenine is an alkaloid to be avoided in excessive amounts.
 
dithyramb
#19 Posted : 5/1/2020 9:35:29 PM

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This is either a different strain of aquatica, or a new species which I cannot identify.

My Description:

Height up to 180cm
Panicle 3 - 16cm long, 0.3 - 0.8cm wide
Blades 20 - over 50cm long, usually not exceeding 0.8cm wide
foliage relatively straight and erect

Very robust rhizomatous clumps, up to close to a meter in diameter.

Perennial, last year's dry stalks remain.

Appears to have a relatively slow development, so many seedheads half emerging, and a lot of very fresh foliage in contrast to the regular aquatica which is mostly old and starting to dry out.

I have identified two phenotypes. Most are of the slender phenotype, and I came across two clumps of a thick (over 1cm wide blades and also thicker seedheads) and large bladed phenotype (there was no visible difference in soil/water/habitat/environment
to make up for the difference).

I found it at a higher elevation where paradoxa and regular aquatica are found but in less numbers

I am boiling it now and it smells different from the other aquaticas I cooked.
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dithyramb
#20 Posted : 5/2/2020 10:57:17 AM

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Now I understand why there are not many people on the Phalaris path. The variables of strain and right phase of development (the alkaloid content can show dramatic differences from week to week according to sources), the non possibility of long term storage of material, and all the long term work needed in cultivation would not appear attractive to most people.

I used to take dmt for granted before. Now it is a product of huge effort.

Brachystachys perhaps would be the least work intensive... I don't know yet.

I still have three different grasses to test ahead of me.

The highly dynamic nature of the grasses make them very elusive. The first grass I had tried was Alopecurus arundinaceus and it felt very beautiful with rue. The second year I tried it, I did not notice any effects. I almost wrote that grass off but now I experienced the same with P. aquatica - one extremely powerful experience and another negligible effect, from grass that was two weeks ahead of the first. There can be so many grasses which synthesize tryptamines now and then that we don't know of. Nature's secrets... Will we unlock them, will we tap into the healing powers of our lands...?

Grasses are very prone to cultivation and selective breeding... I can feel the call. Though I think it would be more ideal if the medicine produced and sustained itself in the wild... İs there such a wild grass which provides strong and consistent medicine? I would love to discover one.

Here is a question. I have sown my (what I guess to be) brachystachys seeds close to a week ago. They are seeds fresh from green/greenish seedheads. I chose the brown/hay colored ones over the green ones. They still did not sprout. Water and sunlight is provided daily. Is there something I might be missing?


Another question: About autumn regrowth. I have never observed the life cycle of a Phalaris grass before. İf the grass dries out in the summer, is it new shoots and blades sprouting from the root that develop and are harvested in autumn regrowth (with no new seedheads)?

Hmm one more... İs it true that aquatica seedlings have stronger and cleaner alkaloid profile? Perhaps sowing and harvesting seedlings could be a way to go then.
 
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