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BE WARNED: It seems for me I became immune to DMT. The Dreaded Lockout has taken me Options
 
coAsTal
#1 Posted : 4/14/2020 6:27:18 PM

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Be warned.
I'm serious-- use this as a cautionary lesson.
I can no longer experience DMT-- I have become completely immune.
It started last month for me--it was sudden.

Following a couple weeks of pretty heavy Rue harmalas and DMT vaping without any incident-- I had some kind of severe interaction with a protein/supplement shake that I stupidly put an unmeasured amount of 5-HTP powder and other supplements into while I was using the rue harmalas at heavy dose.
I then experienced what I am guessing was serotonin syndrome-- extreme panic, dangerous heart palpitations, extreme confusion, auditory hallucinations and other nightmarish symptoms. Nothing I've ever experienced before. I thought I was going to die-- I thought I had done neurological damage. I only avoided 911 because I didn't want to go to jail.

In the following almost 2 months I have not been able to feel anything from either Harmalas or DMT in any amount, aside from the mildest hint of effects. I was able to trip on cactus as usual last week, but towards the end of the experience I felt physically awful.

I know I over-did it. I know it's my fault. I'm devastated. Two weeks ago I tried 50mg in my GVG-- nothing. I waited until yesterday to see if anything changed, and again-- NOTHING but the barest, almost imperceptible effects.

I feel like I've done permanent damage to my brain's wiring--
I am locked out.
Oh, God, what have I done.

 

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Tony6Strings
#2 Posted : 4/14/2020 6:41:58 PM

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I've experienced similar, coastal. I'm sorry buddy. It sucks. A few questions.

Have you tried oral dmt with full (200 mg or more) harmala dose, since you've been shut out?

When I experienced shutout, I took a break for a week or so. When I tried again I used some small harmala doses before smoalking the spice, usually sprinkled a small amount (20 mg or so) on tobacco.

I am grateful my shutout was temporary. I very much am hoping the same for you. Please keep us posted let us know how it goes. Maybe try a pharma next session.
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
coAsTal
#3 Posted : 4/14/2020 6:51:31 PM

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Thanks Tony.

Yes, I brewed 20g of Chaliponga with 80g of Red Caapi about 3 weeks ago-- should have been more than plenty to get me elevated.
Same thing. Only the tiniest, almost sub-perceptible effects.

Heartbroken doesn't begin to describe my feelings of loss. After 15 years, I've gone too far somehow.

Mad
 
Metta-Morpheus
#4 Posted : 4/14/2020 7:46:30 PM

Fly with the sea birds and sh!t

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😢 Man, bummer.
I’ve had something similar lately. My cev’s have gone away, and more often than not, I get nauseous. The best I’ve been able to get to if the nausea stays away long enough for me to get a couple hits, is a warm body buzz and an introspective mindset. Good for thinking or meditating. I even bought a gvg thinking maybe this would help. But still a very sub-bt ride. I even told my buddy the other day I wasn’t gonna bring it up on the forum, as I know what the advice will be. At the least though my friend, youre ok if it was serotonin syndrome.
“You think that’s air you’re breathing?” -Morpheus
“Whoa fellas, I’m feeling kinda bowling ball-ish.” -Leopold Butters Stoch
It’s got what plants crave. -Brawndo

Magic is here for us all to feel. Naming it isn’t what makes it real.
Running around for us all to know, noticing isn’t what makes it so... -Avett Brothers
 
Eaglepath
#5 Posted : 4/14/2020 8:56:16 PM

I rather root my values in my own hallucinations than in society´s neurotic illusions..


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Brother..just take vecation from everything for a while.. live s normal life(whatever that means).. Re-wire your interest for something else and forget about the medicines for a while.. get into meditation and build yourself up again and eventually I'm sure the magic will come back and probably on a new level.. Blessings to you.. and I send some shamanic Viking energy towards you!Smile Love
"Too cute to live, too cozy to die" - Eaglepath
 
dragonrider
#6 Posted : 4/14/2020 9:10:11 PM

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Frequent exposure to high doses of DMT must do something to the brain. Why would the whole process of homeostasis not apply to DMT, like it does to almost any other substance?
 
coAsTal
#7 Posted : 4/14/2020 10:27:20 PM

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Thank you all for the kind words and concern-- it means a lot to me.
I have no choice but to put it down for awhile, as I've already wasted something over 200mg over the past few weeks trying to see if the storm had passed. I can't afford to lose any more, it will probably be a very long time before I can afford to refresh my limited MHRB stock.

dragonrider, I can't explain why this could happen physically-- as it's generally completely removed from the system within an hour after taking it. I don't know how the MAOI could linger in effects either-- all I can guess is that somehow I burned something important out.
The fact that it's lasted this long isn't a great feeling.
Thing is, I feel completely normal otherwise, day-to-day. There are no lingering cognitive aftereffects that I can discern since that bad day-- but something has definitely changed in my brain somehow, and I felt it was time to communicate it to the family here as a caution to all.

It's super weird-- you know how when you've hit spice, and a couple of minutes after the peak you will yawn? At least this usually happens to me, just past the peak. Well, during my recent attempts... I still yawn. At the same time as I would were I tripping. It's like my body still knows DMT is there, but my brain's gates are locked and it can't access my visual centers at all.

Utterly surreal. Crying or very sad
 
OliverJ
#8 Posted : 4/14/2020 10:41:18 PM

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Could this potentially be the result of a severe and perhaps sustained downregulation of the serotonin receptors?
Long term moai inhibition... Prolonged elevation of serotonin, followed by a huge and dangerously high peak when you supplemented the 5htp, causing an acute downregulation response?

Scary stuff. You are lucky worse didn't happen!

Still I feel for you, in your situation I would feel heartbroken.

I would be suprised if this were permanent.
 
Matoskah
#9 Posted : 4/14/2020 11:15:59 PM

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Agreeing with Eaglepath on this one; take a break and nurture that body and mind of yours and in time it might be a path you'll get to revisit again.

I've only experienced such tolerance with psilocybin before, 0 effects at huge dosages. Had to take a break for several weeks.

Regards,
Matoskah
 
bismillah
#10 Posted : 4/15/2020 4:32:29 AM

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Sucks, man, but you overindulged. Psychedelics enhance our life, but they are not the source of it... For the time being, take up woodworking, or drawing, or writing, or whatever catches your fancy.
The human brain is plastic and ever-changing. If you lay low for a while (and it might be a long while—perhaps it might be good to wait as long as a year) I am 100% sure you'll go back to being tripping again. Just gotta give your brain time to find its footing again.
I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want a clever signature.
 
Tony6Strings
#11 Posted : 4/15/2020 7:16:10 AM

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I don't think its any of our place to say if you overindulged or no. I'm not really hearing that. To put your use of spice in perspective, I've smoked most days for the last few months, sometimes several times in a day. 40 mg doses after smoking harmalas. Also a very personal decision to take a break or no. I think a big part of why someone would feel hesitant to share about something like this here at the Nexus is the good possibility that one would find oneself on the receiving end of textbook generic advice like "Hey you overdid it you need a break take up woodwork or basketweaving" from people who don't know you from Adam.

When I had my shutout, it was right after I had just finished an extraction on my first big bag (kilo) of bark. I hadn't been smoking lots of dmt at all, in fact only once that month, earlier that week. I think I was shut out because I leaned on the spice to take me out of this world and away from my pain and problems.
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
Propello
#12 Posted : 4/15/2020 7:38:50 AM

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Sorry to hear about your situation mate. I do agree with most here, hang up the phone for a while. Think of it like you have been very lucky, surviving a severe serotonin syndrome without issues. Now heal and learn the lesson. It will return in time.

Much love.
 
Jees
#13 Posted : 4/15/2020 2:13:31 PM

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coAsTal wrote:
...Following a couple weeks of pretty heavy Rue harmalas and DMT vaping without any incident-- I had some kind of severe interaction with a protein/supplement shake that I stupidly put an unmeasured amount of 5-HTP powder and other supplements into while I was using the rue harmalas at heavy dose.
I then experienced what I am guessing was serotonin syndrome-- extreme panic, dangerous heart palpitations, extreme confusion, auditory hallucinations and other nightmarish symptoms. Nothing I've ever experienced before. I thought I was going to die-- I thought I had done neurological damage. I only avoided 911 because I didn't want to go to jail...
Perhaps it's only fair to take a period off after such a shock/calamity.
 
Tony6Strings
#14 Posted : 4/15/2020 5:41:18 PM

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I'm not saying a break isn't appropriate. I've thought about taking time off from dmt because after months of daily use the trips seem to become less meaningful, also somewhat lackluster in the visuals/geometry. A break can be a good thing for anyone who uses psychedelics.

I just feel that "Take a break, integrate, meditate, etc" is almost a cliche answer, it gets thrown around lots.
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
RoundAbout
#15 Posted : 4/15/2020 7:40:45 PM

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Tony6Strings wrote:
I just feel that "Take a break, integrate, meditate, etc" is almost a cliche answer, it gets thrown around lots.


It is a cliche answer, just like suggestions for recovery after physical injury which are also stated over and over and over again. Otherwise people seem to err on the side of pushing themselves, aggravate the injury, and then worry they'll never be normal again. After a much long time period than necessary (i.e. than if they just waited longer to begin with) many people are perfectly fine. More serious injuries require diagnostics and professional advice... what is someone supposed to suggest in this situation? This topic has been bandied around previously and I can't remember seeing another suggestion that resolved the issue.

Tony6Strings wrote:
I think a big part of why someone would feel hesitant to share about something like this here at the Nexus is the good possibility that one would find oneself on the receiving end of textbook generic advice like "Hey you overdid it you need a break take up woodwork or basketweaving" from people who don't know you from Adam.


When people suggest laying off drugs here, it is often framed with basket-weaving and meditation which is easy to be dismissive about. Direct language would probably be very poorly received and seem aggressive in this community... but less easy to dismiss.

 
bismillah
#16 Posted : 4/15/2020 8:04:57 PM

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Tony6Strings wrote:
I don't think its any of our place to say if you overindulged or no. I'm not really hearing that. To put your use of spice in perspective, I've smoked most days for the last few months, sometimes several times in a day. 40 mg doses after smoking harmalas. Also a very personal decision to take a break or no. I think a big part of why someone would feel hesitant to share about something like this here at the Nexus is the good possibility that one would find oneself on the receiving end of textbook generic advice like "Hey you overdid it you need a break take up woodwork or basketweaving" from people who don't know you from Adam.

When I had my shutout, it was right after I had just finished an extraction on my first big bag (kilo) of bark. I hadn't been smoking lots of dmt at all, in fact only once that month, earlier that week. I think I was shut out because I leaned on the spice to take me out of this world and away from my pain and problems.


I'M not telling him he did—*his body* clearly is. The definition of overindulgence is different for each of us. You might be able to trip every day—on the other hand, I get shut out if I do too much and have to pause for a while.

As a musician, when I get wrist pain, I take a break. I focus on writing or listening or another hobby entirely. I don't keep trying to practise because I know that it's a one-way ticket to tendonitis.
I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want a clever signature.
 
Tony6Strings
#17 Posted : 4/15/2020 9:54:46 PM

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Coastal. How long of a break are you thinking of taking? I will take one with you, so you don't have to go it alone.
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
coAsTal
#18 Posted : 4/16/2020 12:23:25 AM

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Appreciate all the perspectives and advice.
Yes, I did expect a lot of "just listen to the universe, man" type views here when I shared this, despite their not addressing the physical mechanism of whatever has taken place-- I am aware of the community I'm part of. Wink That's OK-- it's all well-meant and received.

I had already decided on holding off using anything more until May. I expect to try a small amount at the beginning of May just to see if anything has changed.
Tony, if you feel like a good clearing of the mind is in order for you too, then join me in solidarity and sobriety for a couple of weeks brother-- I welcome the kindred company.

Really am thankful of the group kindness here-- I've been around here since before the forum reset/server change or whatever, I think '06 or '07, and it's the only place other than the Shroomery that I've carried along in life all these years.

It's because of you, my friends-- old and new.



 
Tony6Strings
#19 Posted : 4/16/2020 9:53:58 AM

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A couple of weeks it is! I'm in! I hope and pray that next month the spice takes you further than ever, in a good way, and me too while I'm wishing. In the mean time life is good and the world is beautiful.
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
jamie
#20 Posted : 4/16/2020 2:53:23 PM

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I would suggest a good few months away from psychedelics if your frequency of use was daily or prolonged weekly use of DMT. It can be hard to gain certain vantage points in life, in my experience, without enough time away from these experiences that we begin to quench that thirst in other ways. This is where one could really put all of what one has learned to test and fine tune ones life.

It is nice to come back to these things with that sort of healthy distance, and new shoes.

Just my 2 cents.

Hope it all works out for ya.
 
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