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Lagochilus inebrians / Turkistan mint / Inebriating mint / Intoxicating mint Options
 
waitfornever
#1 Posted : 3/28/2020 4:29:04 AM

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My first attempt ever at sharing an experience here. All criticism is encourage. All I found regarding Lagonchilus Inebrians on the nexus was this:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...amp;m=982926#post982926

I'm unsure if I should add to that thread or start new. Not wanting to hijack that thread I'll start a new one and link it to that thread with a few details.

There seems to be so little information and even fewer reports about success with this plant. I hope that by sharing my experience of what worked and what didn't will not only help others but myself as well.

Lagochilus inebrians is commonly known as inebriating mint, intoxicating mint, or Turkistan mint. All the literature I could find about traditional use was to collect flowers, seed pods and stems, dry, then lightly toast dry plant matter and make tea. This is the way it has been traditionally used supposedly.

Knowing nothing I tried the supposed traditional way without toasting the material. I steeped 1oz of plant material in 1qt of hot but not boiling distilled water for 30 mins. Tea was evenly split between me and the wife and drank over 20min period on empty stomachs. Neither of us felt anything. The taste is worse then cactus tea but not as bad as wormwood tea to both of us. Although the taste lingers and the smell stays on ones breath potently.

We then tried many combinations of toasting the plant and making tea with various heat, steeping time and increased plant material. There were no psychoactive effects. However it did seem to have a medicinal effect, I suffer from GERD and it noticeably reduced my symptoms. Some of the literature states it was commonly used in tincture medicinal to treat: "stomach ulcer and duodenal gut problems".

So very unscientifically, 1oz of crushed untoasted plant material was placed in a 1pt jar and topped off with 151 proof grain alcohol. A good shake and time was given, I got busy and left it for about 14 days (probably overkill). I filtered the plant matter and saved for an additional use. (Actually 2 more)

The tincture had a deep beautiful amber-gold-brown color, an odor similar to its taste but mild. Pretty.....

1 tablespoon of tincture added to a cup of coffee produced psychoactive effects (coffee to mask flavor). It felt like a good alcohol buzz but with a weird sense of motion even when stationary. 3 tablespoons of tincture produced one of the most unique non-psychedelic drug induced sensations I've ever experienced. The come up is euphoric, as euphoric as the strongest poppy tea I've ever had. Next comes that strange sense of motion. Anyone who knows opiates will understand the next part but I'll try to elaborate briefly. With opiates I feel like I'm sinking into the world or that the world is moving away from me (glass half full half empty perspective). With Lagonchilus, although euphoric like an opiate, one feels the opposite movement. It's like you are moving forward into the world. It is not smooth, a slightly bumpy ride. Like being in a canoe on a large lake with medium waves. Or like an erowid post about Lagonchilus, the user said it felt like riding on a magic carpet. Forward movement but with ups and downs. Unlike anything I've ever felt. The movement is noticed even when stationary. Motor skills are obviously diminished but walking and talking are still controllable. (To be clear there is nothing else opiate like, it was just they only way to describe it)

Euphoria seems to diminish after 2 or so hours, the body high and sensation of riding a magic carpet last a little longer 4 or 5 hours maybe. I consumed this after work and the next morning feel normal with the exception of improved gastric function and reduced GERD symptoms. Perhaps 24hrs or so the medicinal effects wear off as well. I have no knowledge of tolerance as I've never had enough material to test more that weekly and I wasted so much with that awful tea.

This is a difficult plant to find, many false look alikes. Seeds can be found but hard to grow, live plants rarer. This plant is legal in ALMOST all countries but am unsure of sourcing talk regardless.

Anyone have anything to add? History of use? So little information for something so strong....




Insanity is past, present, and future pain. 
Past pain never dies, otherwise it would not be pain. 
Life is present pain. 
All unknown and feared is future pain. 
Is the absence of pain happiness? 
And if constant pain leads to insanity; Can constant insanity destroy the pain?
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Jin
#2 Posted : 3/28/2020 12:47:54 PM

yes


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Since it's a diterpene

Would'nt it be wise to quid or make an extract

Has anyone tried to make an extract or smoke it?
illusions !, there are no illusions
there is only that which is the truth
 
waitfornever
#3 Posted : 3/28/2020 2:46:09 PM

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I don't know how you would handle the flavor of a quid but it should work.

An extract would be interesting. How high can you go? 3 tablespoons of the tincture was very strong. What would be a recommend way to go about an extract that is more effective/efficient then the tincture?
Insanity is past, present, and future pain. 
Past pain never dies, otherwise it would not be pain. 
Life is present pain. 
All unknown and feared is future pain. 
Is the absence of pain happiness? 
And if constant pain leads to insanity; Can constant insanity destroy the pain?
 
doubledog
#4 Posted : 3/28/2020 7:29:15 PM

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I have tried lagochilus only once, as a tea, without any interesting effects, except some healing to my digestive system.
It seems that alcohol is needed as a solvent for extraction active compounds.

Extract could be possibly made by evaporation of strong ethanolic tincture.
 
downwardsfromzero
#5 Posted : 3/28/2020 10:52:19 PM

No way ticket

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It might be worth putting a 151 proof tincture in the freezer to see if anything precipitates.

While Lagochilin is "thought to be responsible for the sedative, hypotensive and hemostatic effects of the plant", it is definitely deserving of a more thorough investigation. Has anyone knowingly experienced pure lagochilin? It sounds like the claim of psychoactivity for this compound is an assumption - unless there is a scientific paper in Russian, Uzbek or Tadjik, perhaps?

It sets me thinking... the 'magic carpet' sensation combined with a more visionary compound could be... interesting? Entertaining? Confusing? An unknown combination with an uncertain safety profile?
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
waitfornever
#6 Posted : 3/29/2020 5:24:40 AM

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doubledog wrote:
I have tried lagochilus only once, as a tea, without any interesting effects, except some healing to my digestive system.
It seems that alcohol is needed as a solvent for extraction active compounds.

Extract could be possibly made by evaporation of strong ethanolic tincture.


With water, we both had improved/healed digestive function but no psychoactive effects. Could it be they are different things in the plant or water is only extracting small amounts?
Insanity is past, present, and future pain. 
Past pain never dies, otherwise it would not be pain. 
Life is present pain. 
All unknown and feared is future pain. 
Is the absence of pain happiness? 
And if constant pain leads to insanity; Can constant insanity destroy the pain?
 
doubledog
#7 Posted : 3/29/2020 10:56:46 AM

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Lagochiline is diterpene, so most likely it is not very soluble in water.

Maybe extract similar to cannabis oil extract is a way to go.
 
waitfornever
#8 Posted : 3/29/2020 11:52:10 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
It might be worth putting a 151 proof tincture in the freezer to see if anything precipitates.
Could you please elaborate a little on this idea?

downwardsfromzero wrote:
While Lagochilin is "thought to be responsible for the sedative, hypotensive and hemostatic effects..."
That phrase continuously reappears when researching anything related to this plant, haha. There does seem to be scientific papers dating back to the 1940s but all from Russia.


Insanity is past, present, and future pain. 
Past pain never dies, otherwise it would not be pain. 
Life is present pain. 
All unknown and feared is future pain. 
Is the absence of pain happiness? 
And if constant pain leads to insanity; Can constant insanity destroy the pain?
 
downwardsfromzero
#9 Posted : 3/29/2020 11:17:38 PM

No way ticket

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waitfornever wrote:
downwardsfromzero wrote:
It might be worth putting a 151 proof tincture in the freezer to see if anything precipitates.
Could you please elaborate a little on this idea?

Some compounds are less soluble in a given solvent at lower temperature, to the extent that they will precipitate out (sound familiar?) when stuck in the freezer. If some component or other of a sufficiently concentrated L. inebrians tincture displayed this property, you would obtain a precipitate. This would not necessarily be lagochilin, of course - further analysis would be necessary to ascertain on way or the other - but it's worth considering that the tincture appears to be safe for infrequent use. This means that - not forgetting the standard safety precautions regarding dosage - an activity test could be carried out on both the remaining tincture and any material that had precipitated out.

It may turn out to be the case that only half of the active substance would precipitate out, so one would have to be fairly well versed with the effects of the plant and, given the perhaps subtle effects, it would be wise to perform a blind test of the material.


(I'm sure I could express all this a bit more clearly but it's a bit late in the evening right now! Long story short, you'd be trying out a way that could separate the tincture into two fractions which may help tease out exactly where the activity lies.)
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
waitfornever
#10 Posted : 3/31/2020 5:25:47 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
Some compounds are less soluble in a given solvent at lower temperature, to the extent that they will precipitate out (sound familiar?) when stuck in the freezer. If some component or other of a sufficiently concentrated L. inebrians tincture displayed this property, you would obtain a precipitate. This would not necessarily be lagochilin, of course - further analysis would be necessary to ascertain on way or the other - but it's worth considering that the tincture appears to be safe for infrequent use. This means that - not forgetting the standard safety precautions regarding dosage - an activity test could be carried out on both the remaining tincture and any material that had precipitated out.

It may turn out to be the case that only half of the active substance would precipitate out, so one would have to be fairly well versed with the effects of the plant and, given the perhaps subtle effects, it would be wise to perform a blind test of the material.


(I'm sure I could express all this a bit more clearly but it's a bit late in the evening right now! Long story short, you'd be trying out a way that could separate the tincture into two fractions which may help tease out exactly where the activity lies.)


THANK YOU! That was very well explained in fact. I will certainly start playing with temperatures and report back. (If this coronavirus has not interrupted my supplier). This would be viable with all tinctures I am familiar with.....thanks again!
Insanity is past, present, and future pain. 
Past pain never dies, otherwise it would not be pain. 
Life is present pain. 
All unknown and feared is future pain. 
Is the absence of pain happiness? 
And if constant pain leads to insanity; Can constant insanity destroy the pain?
 
downwardsfromzero
#11 Posted : 4/1/2020 12:55:46 AM

No way ticket

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By varying the ratio of water to ethanol in your tincture, it's theoretically possible to tune the temperature/solubility gradient for the compounds dissolved in it. This is a simple lab trick, and it might work for the diterpenoids of interest if you've made a solid extract and cleaned it up a bit.

One other thought is that - given that they're both members of the same plant family - the compound(s) of interest might very well be found on the outside of the leaves in glandular capitate trichomes, as with salvinorins in the case of S. divinorum. This would indicate that a short wash on the leaves with ice cold anhydrous acetone would be likely to allow recovery of a cleaner product on evaporation of the acetone than anything you'd produce with room temperature ethanol. There's a thread about this in the S. divinorum section.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
waitfornever
#12 Posted : 4/2/2020 3:31:02 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
One other thought is that - given that they're both members of the same plant family - the compound(s) of interest might very well be found on the outside of the leaves in glandular capitate trichomes, as with salvinorins in the case of S. divinorum. This would indicate that a short wash on the leaves with ice cold anhydrous acetone would be likely to allow recovery of a cleaner product on evaporation of the acetone than anything you'd produce with room temperature ethanol. There's a thread about this in the S. divinorum section.


I believe this is the link for anyone else interested:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=15587
Insanity is past, present, and future pain. 
Past pain never dies, otherwise it would not be pain. 
Life is present pain. 
All unknown and feared is future pain. 
Is the absence of pain happiness? 
And if constant pain leads to insanity; Can constant insanity destroy the pain?
 
 
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