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Looking for advice - your thoughts on cannabis use and ayahuasca Options
 
smoothmonkey
#1 Posted : 12/6/2019 4:37:21 PM

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Hello fellow seekers,

I am struggling with an internal dilemma - namely, does my cannabis use interfere with my ayahuasca experiences?

Cannabis has been a close and dear friend for at least 12 years, and I've been working with the mother medicine for about 3 years. In that time, my relationship with cannabis has come into question; it has developed and improved - meaning I no longer feel like I need her - though i do still feel a strong attachment to her.

In the group that I sit with, which is of the Shipibo tradition, they recommend abstaining from cannabis for a few days at least before the ceremony in addition to the prescribed pre-diet, the idea being to create as much space as possible for the medicine to work. I agree that creating more space in this way can create a stronger sense of commitment to the work and strengthen my intent for the journey. However, i have a hard time stopping smoking when the time draws near...

I find myself on the fence about when to stop. There have been times where I've taken weeks off before sitting, and other times, including my first time, where I smoked the day before or a few days before and still received deep healing. I have other friends from other traditions who state that cannabis can "cloud" your energetic centers and pathways, and the ayahuasca cleans them so they become crystal clear. I am also under the impression and possibly self-limiting belief that cannabis use can prevent or hinder my ability to have deep visions. I know it's not all about the visions, and I feel mother gives you what you need, when you need it, which I am grateful for; but so far i have only had a few experiences that were truly mind bending visually.

I feel good when I stop using cannabis, and I'm all for taking time off and getting clarity, especially before a deep healing journey. I feel a dichotomy within me though, and I'm curious how other people manage their relationships with these two plants.

How many of you are cannabis users who work with the mother medicine?
Do you feel that your cannabis use hinders your experiences with ayahuasca in any way?
Do you stop using cannabis prior to your journeys, or continue on recieving the medicine cannabis gives in the midst of ayahuasca journey?
If you are a chronic cannabis smoker, do you still have deep, strong visions from the medicine?


Thanks in advance for your responses. I truly appreciate any input Smile

-SM
असतो मा सद्गमय ।
तमसो मा ज्योतिर्गमय ।
मृत्योर्मा अमृतं गमय ।
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Jees
#2 Posted : 12/6/2019 5:06:41 PM

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I've a love/hate relationship with thc.

When I'm pretty thc'ed then an immediate following pharmahuasca is dulled in very severe ways, to me that is illustrating and telling. The thc pain relief properties stand in the way of the deems-sensations ime.

This led me to believe that it is better to give them their own space, especially giving aya a clear path to come forth. Practically this means no thc for say 3 to 4 days in advance, more is even better. It also helps me in laying off the thc magnetic habits Wink . I've not smoked thc on top of a clean started pharma/aya session.


 
coAsTal
#3 Posted : 12/6/2019 6:02:33 PM

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Cannabis is one of the poorest things to combine with anything psychedelic-- as far as muddying the effects.

The only worse thing is alcohol.

Anyone that combines the two can not judge the psychedelic experience of the aya, shrooms, cactus, acid, or whatever, properly, as the experience is so fundamentally perverted that a "clean" experience becomes impossible.

On it's own in moderation it's it's own thing, but with other things, just be aware that you are completely altering the experience.

Try it with and without and you'll see the difference.
 
Yugambeh
#4 Posted : 12/6/2019 6:27:22 PM

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coAsTal wrote:
Cannabis is one of the poorest things to combine with anything psychedelic-- as far as muddying the effects.

The only worse thing is alcohol.

Anyone that combines the two can not judge the psychedelic experience of the aya, shrooms, cactus, acid, or whatever, properly, as the experience is so fundamentally perverted that a "clean" experience becomes impossible.

On it's own in moderation it's it's own thing, but with other things, just be aware that you are completely altering the experience.

Try it with and without and you'll see the difference.


I have to disagree with you, but it’s my experience with cannabis in combination with other psychedelic substances, it might differ for others.

I can go deeper into the experience when I add cannabis, it becomes clearer and easier
to understand, it might depend on what strain of cannabis you use?🤔

/Y
I am like a white cloud with no destination, I place goals to trick myself in believing I have somewhere to arrive, everything is a successful goal when I realise I have already arrived.
 
coAsTal
#5 Posted : 12/6/2019 7:12:11 PM

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I agree with you that different people are different-- but having been involved myself for 15 years, and reading so many accounts of other people's bad or unsatisfactory trips to corroborate, I stand by the caution I gave.

So many bad trip reports contain someone hammering a bong alongside their psychedelic and having an awful time-- yet they never seem to connect that it is a strong cause of paranoia and disorientation in many people--

Again-- it's great that it works for you-- but for many people including myself, it's an awful additive that muddies the experience, and twists it into uncomfortable mental spaces.
 
coAsTal
#6 Posted : 12/6/2019 7:22:41 PM

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Let me amend the above to make clear it's anybody's choice to smoke weed with whatever they want-- to each their own. I don't mean to criticize-- just caution.

If somebody is a habitual pothead, I would tell them that they will not know what a true experience is with a psychedelic if they're stoned through the duration-- there are unmistakable changes in the character and tone of a trip if weed is introduced-- it is very much worth going into these teachers with a clear mind, unaltered by other influences--

Of course one can smoke weed successfully and enjoy a trip-- I want to offer the perspective that the +1 of pot changes things-- often for the negative. I point this out so people don't take aya while already high, have a poor experience, and think that aya is a bad experience-- just try it sober and clean-- then make a second judgement-- I hope this all makes sense, and I wish everyone the best!
 
dragonrider
#7 Posted : 12/6/2019 7:45:25 PM

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For me, cannabis works great with almost any psychedelic. It hugely amplifies and slightly alters most of the psychedelic effects. It makes visuals much more vibrant and colourfull, it makes it easier to have OBE's, it makes the whole experience much more immersive, and it can be very euphoric as well.

It is true though, that it can also be very sedating. Therefore it combines much better with psychedelics that have some stimulant properties themselves, like LSD, than with shrooms.

Ayahuasca is different in that harmala's also boost some of the effects of cannabis.

It is inadvisable to use cannabis the days before taking a psychedelic, because it builds a slight tolerance for the effects of classic hallucinogens like DMT or LSD.

I suspect the reason why some people have such negative experiences, is because they underestimated the effects cannabis can have on psychedelics. The experience just became unexpectedly intense for them, much more than they anticipated it would be.

But i definately would call it synergistic. I think cannabis increases the sensitivity of some of the receptors that psychedelics act on.
 
ShamensStamen
#8 Posted : 12/6/2019 7:59:28 PM
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I can only really speak from my own experience with this stuff. But for me, i started smoking Cannabis in 2010, smoked it pretty much all day everyday, in 2012 i found Aya and started working with that, took Aya daily/near daily for 4 years, smoked Cannabis before, during and after, all throughout my Aya experimentation, Cannabis never negatively impacted/affected it or blocked anything out, it actually potentiates the Aya. I got all the benefits from my Aya experimentation, Cannabis never blocked anything out, i don't tend to get closed eyed visuals/visions from oral DMT (i do with Psilohuasca though, even with Cannabis in the mix) but in 2014 i did have a vision on Aya about my dad's death, a precognitive vision, as clear as day, with Cannabis in my system, and it didn't hinder it at all, only real vision i can say i've had and Cannabis had no impact on it.

Now, i will say that Cannabis does have some downsides, but nothing i've ever felt got in the way of Aya doing it's work. After the majority of my Aya experimentation, my relationship with Cannabis changed, like has happened with many others. I still smoke to this day, but i don't smoke nearly as much, i usually wait until night time to relax before bed, i take a few puffs from a pipe rather than smoking a few bowls, and Cannabis has become much more of an Entheogen/Psychedelic since my Aya experimentation, it's almost like a softer kinda different version of Aya now, it tends to reconnect me to the Aya space and to Spirit a lot of the time, therefore it's NOT a social/recreational thing, barely even medicinal anymore, way more Psychedelic, not all the time but most of the time, sometimes i can get away with using it a little more loosely but it's a serious plant these days, and i feel like my time with Cannabis is slowly fizzling out. No doubt i'll always have it around, but i don't feel the need or want to smoke that much these days, i much prefer to be clearheaded and sober-ish these days.

I too have a bit of a love/hate relationship with Cannabis, but it does have it's benefits, as well as downsides. With that said though, i will always include it with my Ayahuasca/Psilohuasca and other Entheogenic journeys. I may not smoke it as much or all throughout the experience, i tend to wait till after the come up to smoke it now, but i just consider it another tool in the toolkit, along with Tobacco which also has benefits when mixed with Aya.

Aya is ALL ABOUT plant combinations and admixture plants, if you seriously look into it, you will find that a lot of shamans mix anywhere from a few to over a hundred or so admixture plants into a single brew, and there's good reason for that, Aya can be whatever you want it to be, it's an art, a craft, a practice, you can either go with the basic 2 plant combo or you can alter/tweak things to your liking or add other elements/aspects to it by using other plants with the main combo, therefore flavoring it in one way or the other and bringing out certain aspects of the Aya that wouldn't otherwise come out without those admixture plants, like Cannabis or Tobacco for example. So i see it as a tool, something i can use during the journey to bring certain aspects out of the medicine, and will probably always include Cannabis with my Aya as i've so far seen no real reason to avoid it, but that's me, others may find it clouds the headspace too much or may dull things down, etc.

Just keep in mind, strain and potency DOES matter, you don't want too much THC, and CBD ain't all it's chalked up to be, there's TONS of different Cannabinoids and terpenes in Cannabis that affects how it is. I don't even smoke high grade stuff, i smoke regular weed lol, because the high grade is just too much THC for me. Just know, that Cannabis will add it's own aspects to the Aya, just like Tobacco does, just like Lemon Balm (another admixture plant i use) does, and just like any other plant would, it just depends on what all you get out of it and which plants you want in the mix.
 
ShamensStamen
#9 Posted : 12/6/2019 8:02:13 PM
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I will add though, Cannabis can increase the anxiety/panic/paranoia, ESPECIALLY during the come up, so if you do smoke Cannabis, best to probably wait till after the come up to smoke it. Tobacco on the other hand, seems to aid in clearing the headspace and helps with grounding. Cannabis takes me deeper and potentiates things and brings out certain aspects of the Aya, Tobacco brings me out of things but also brings out certain aspects of the Aya that i wouldn't get otherwise. So that's cool.
 
ShamensStamen
#10 Posted : 12/6/2019 8:50:02 PM
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Also i wanna add, that while Cannabis can have it's downsides, there's really nothing wrong with using it with Aya. I think the only reason people downplay Cannabis when it comes to Aya, is because of the stigma surrounding it, it being seen as an "illegal recreational drug" and all the baggage that has come with that. If it were not for society's demonization of Cannabis, i'm quite sure the shamans in the jungle would've found Cannabis to be a very useful plant and would've most likely included it in some form or fashion along with the Ayahuasca or plant diets or medicines or whatever. There's nothing wrong with Cannabis, just people's approach towards how they use it.
 
Grey Fox
#11 Posted : 12/6/2019 9:20:27 PM

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I've combined cannabis with mushrooms and with cactus many times. I never tried aya, so I cant speak to how those two combine.

Generally speaking cannabis intensifies a psychedelic. But it can also add an element of haziness and confusion. For me it tends to boost visuals and the overall intensity of the trip.

I enjoy combining cannabis with cactus much more than I enjoyed the combo with mushrooms. With mushrooms the combo just led to too much confusion. I would get caught in thought loops. I would get confused about objects that I was looking at. I once confused some sticks for a pile of bones, etc. The combo was almost stupifying at higher dosess.

But with cactus that confusing/stupifying effect doesnt really happen, at least not for me. There is a mental clarity that is inherent to the cactus, and the cannabis feels too weak to override it.

So I think that the effects of the combo can be different based on the substance and each person's unique makeup. Only you can know if a combo is working for you or if it is time to ease off.
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
FranLover
#12 Posted : 12/7/2019 12:21:15 AM

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All that I am about to say is based on taking the right amount of weed. Daily smokers have a level of buzz and high that they like and want to mantain, while that more infrequent smokers should be more careful, as five or so tokes might be enough to reach a good high. Tolerance makes all the difference, as well as each individual's relationship to cannabis. If not a daily smoker or very sensitive, the reader will not identify with this given that cannabis is a strong psychedelic in its own right, and for some it may even cause paranoia or anxiety.
I find tryptamines and cannabis to be the perfect combo. The same for cannabis and harmalas.

B. Caapi and Cannabis are great for me.

Caapi is the light and weed is the engine; Caapi ligthens up and deepens the cannabis consciousness.

Add Psychotria Viridis into the mix and cannabis will be doing all the good things it should do (relaxation, peace, physical rest and recovery, third eye tingling) but be so muted that it will barley be perceptible. Ayahuasca and cannabis work for me. ESPECIALLY because a small toke here and there while consuming the B. Caapi tea and/or DMT containing plant tea, will reduce nausea significantly.

DMT overpowers cannabis. It has always done this for me. I can smoke a huge joint, smoke DMT, and when I come back 15-30 mins later I will feel sober. My favorite thing, a thing I no longer do but loved, was smoking a joint after a DMT breakthrough.

As Grey Fox pointed out, Mescaline and weed is kind of perfect, a match made in heaven. Just a few tokes deepen the visual and sensory field and disolves the "I" (you will fall in a hole through the universe)...

Weed smooths out shroom anxiety and jaw clenching for me (which ocurrs in 3 out of every 10 trips) and deepens the vision field.

A good experiment would be to try out all of these things but replace THC weed with CBD weed, and see what that offers.
Cura cura cuerpecito/Cura cura almacita/Ayahuasca medicina/eres muy sagrada/ tienes el poder de sanar nuestra gente/Chacrunita medicina...wachumita medicina...Nakaykuna medicina...
When its good as it can be it gets better wait and see
See the job. Do the job. Stay out of the misery.
 
ShamensStamen
#13 Posted : 12/7/2019 12:29:52 AM
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^

Only thing i will add is that for me, Harmalas/Caapi/Rue is the force, DMT is the light, but Cannabis too can act as the light, particularly with the Harmalas. Definitely helps with nausea, doesn't stop the purging/vomiting though (only thing i've found useful for not vomiting so far, is Limonene, but still need to include that more with my Aya to say for sure). But yes, daily smokers of Cannabis will most likely not have as much of an issue when it comes to combining it with Psychedelics, whereas those who don't use Cannabis as much, may get overwhelmed by the addition of it. But yeah, it really just depends on who/how you are as a person and your relationship to Cannabis, as well as how much Cannabis you smoke and the strain/quality of Cannabis (particularly when it comes to THC content and some terpenes and such that can help negate some of the downsides of Cannabis/THC).
 
coAsTal
#14 Posted : 12/7/2019 2:10:43 AM

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Wow, a lot more potheads than I expected to find-- guess I'm in the minority that finds the blending with psychedelics to be overwhelmingly negative.

That's good-- better that you enjoy it than not, I suppose.
 
Grey Fox
#15 Posted : 12/7/2019 4:01:57 AM

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One of the things that I've discovered about using cannabis with psychedelics is that a little bit goes a long way. 1 or 2 puffs from a joint... wait an hour... 1 or 2 puffs... wait an hour... etc. It helps to keep the stomach calm and adds just a little something extra to the trip.

If I'm going to go heavy with cannabis then I will wait until after the psychedelic has already peaked. Its nice to feel the power of the psychedelic without too much distortion before adding a lot of cannabis to the mix.

But these days I usually just see how it goes as I'm tripping. If the trip is really strong then I'll go light with the cannabis or abstain altogether. If the trip is not that strong then I tend to go heavier with cannabis. But really it just depends on how the trip feels. I let the trip dictate how much cannabis I smoke or if I smoke any at all.
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
OneIsEros
#16 Posted : 12/7/2019 4:29:08 AM
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Two factors:

One, everyone is different.
Two, different ayahuasca preparation conditions get different things.

The UDV used to use cannabis in combination with ayahuasca to channel spirits I think. Channeling is spirits is one possible use for ayahuasca, apparently they thought it helped. Maybe some things cannabis would help ayahuasca, other things it would obstruct things you want to do with the brew.

And perhaps the help/hindrance thing would be different for different people.

And then, a third factor, is the different plants themselves - different cannabis strains, different ayahuasca plants....

I'd say respect the Shipibo. They're trying to show you what they do, so, do what they do. If there's a group that does it with cannabis - then do what they do. You're more likely to get to where they try to get when they do it, if you do what they do. Make sense?

In my personal experience, I don't like combining cannabis with any psychedelic that I've tried (DMT/ayahuasca/mushrooms/mescaline/MDMA)... except for LSD. I like cannabis on LSD for some reason. But only if I have a tolerance. And even then... I see benefits to not using cannabis with LSD. It just happens to be the only one where I personally get favorable results, in all my other experiences, cannabis is a detraction.
 
Eaglepath
#17 Posted : 12/8/2019 9:47:39 AM

I rather root my values in my own hallucinations than in society´s neurotic illusions..


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Cannabis - Cloudiness
Ayahuasca - Clarity

Like going to the right and left at the same time..
"Too cute to live, too cozy to die" - Eaglepath
 
Jega
#18 Posted : 12/8/2019 12:38:15 PM

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If any drug becomes 'a close and dear friend' I would consider whether it might be a good idea to cut back generally, regardless of any ceremony. For me personally, I believe in 'going in clean' to the Aya experience. Couldn't agree more with what Eaglepath said.
 
Jagube
#19 Posted : 12/8/2019 12:54:49 PM

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Almost all my friends smoke cannabis around and during ayahuasca ceremonies (during breaks).

Personally I don't use cannabis at all, not even when it's served in ceremony, I just pass the joint on to my neighbor.

I've tried cannabis ceremonially in an ayahuasca (cura) ceremony in the past though. It was maybe 5-6 years ago and I wasn't a cannabis user (have never been), so it was a foreign spirit to me. I didn't like the effect it had on me (in combination with the ayahuasca), it ruined my experience. I started hearing 'punk' voices, swearing etc. and I regretted having smoked it.
 
Jees
#20 Posted : 12/8/2019 1:35:20 PM

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ShamensStamen wrote:
...Just keep in mind, strain and potency DOES matter, you don't want too much THC...
This might be a very important distinction between yey and ney sayers.

For myself I said ney because when I smoke then I smoke way too much to leave room for another plant to shine also. I realize a shallower some-puff is a complete other game of cannabis-usage and it's implications.
 
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