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Myceliated Grain TEK Options
 
Bancopuma
#21 Posted : 11/19/2019 5:33:15 PM

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Given the very positive attention that lion's mane has been receiving lately, it's worth mentioning that this TEK is equally effective for cultivating lion's mane mycelium on rice. It seems that the mycelium produces various substances that are not present in the fruitbody (and vice versa). According to Paul Stamets and a commercial lion's mane producer I saw give a talk and spoke to recently, consuming the mycelium on grain is definitely a valid way of ingesting lion's mane and obtaining the various benefits it offers. One could easily dehydrate inoculated rice and grind it up to add to smoothies etc. One could also inoculate jars of rice, break up the spawn and cook the fresh rice spawn up with eggs and vegetables for breakfast, or add to soups, smoothies etc. It's easy to make large quantities, it tastes great and it costs only a fraction of the price of mass-produced product. I've just acquired some lion's mane liquid culture and am looking forward to pursuing this. Thumbs up
 

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Tony6Strings
#22 Posted : 11/19/2019 10:44:04 PM

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Bancopuma, this is very cool. Has my attention for sure. We are small apartment dwellers with children, we have very limited space for, say, fruiting chambers and the like. This is part of the reason why, although I love mushrooms and She is interested in taking them, I've yet to undertake my first cubensis grow. I'm going to download the TEK and study up. Thank you for sharing.
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antares
#23 Posted : 11/21/2019 2:34:40 PM

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This might be a good way of using the left over grain after growing a sclerotia producing species.
 
Bancopuma
#24 Posted : 11/21/2019 3:54:12 PM

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antares wrote:
This might be a good way of using the left over grain after growing a sclerotia producing species.


I think that's a good shout yeah. I have some P. mexicana 'Chicon Nindo' LC almost ready to go, like all Mexicana it is sclerotia forming, but I plan on bioassaying the mycelium grain for activity too. P. mexicana is the only consistent sclerotia forming species I'm aware of...P. galindoi, P. tampenensis and other 'species'...according to genetic analyses conducted a few years back...are all sub-strain variants of P. mexicana. I visited a commercial legal sclerotia grower here in the Netherlands yesterday and was intrigued to learn that some of the truffle strains have simply been incubated for longer (they tend to get larger and be more potent).
 
DeDao
#25 Posted : 11/21/2019 10:59:00 PM

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Awesome -
Thanks for the reply Puma.

I'm going to keep an eye on this and see what people say!

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Spaced Out 2
#26 Posted : 12/4/2019 1:11:42 AM

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This brown rice has incubated for 2 months and 1 week. During drying it turns dark blue. Dried for 10hrs at 122°F.

Monday evening I had the opportunity to test it out. I decided to start with 6 tablespoons simmered in 2.5 cups of water for 20 minutes, and ended up with roughly 1 3/4c of liquid. I then added some raw cacoa powder and a touch of honey to knock the bitterness down. It was a cool night so a cup of hot chocolate was appropriate. As soon as it was cool enough to gulp I drank it within 5 minutes and then went and laid down on my bed in darkness so that there wasn't any outside influences for the testing.

It started to come on within 15min, zero body load and for the duration it was as clean as it comes. In total, from come up and back baseline was just under 3hrs. Peak was about 1hr 15min in at a solid "Level 3" trip and slowly tapered off from there. All in all it was a very good experience.

I will definitely continue working with this method, not only on different grains but to also to try other species. I also have more that's incubating that I will let go for the full 3 months to possibly increase potency some. It doesn't get any easier than this for those who are still wondering. I will continue uping the dosage as well to see how it affects the duration of the trip.

Thanks Banco for posting the tek on the Nexus!

Oh, almost forgot, this is Ps. Hoogshagenii (Semperviva) for any who are wondering.
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20191127_111727.jpg (3,138kb) downloaded 328 time(s).
20191127_111822.jpg (2,739kb) downloaded 328 time(s).
 
Bancopuma
#27 Posted : 12/7/2019 2:07:25 PM

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So glad to hear you had a positive experience dude! Consuming the mycelium grain in tea form is definitely a very easy way of ingesting psilocybin, while being super smooth and clean on the body. Might be worthy of experimentation people whose systems don't react well to ingesting fungal matter. I'm also looking forward to experimenting with different species on different grains. Thumbs up

Just sharing my friend's experience (who wrote this tek which I helped edit) in case it's of interest to anyone, of replicating Paul Stamet's nootropic stack using this tek (likely a much cheaper and perhaps superior way of doing it).

Using this tek he has been growing a few Psilocybe species, as well as lion's mane which it is well suited for. He has been blending a daily fruit and vegetable smoothie, adding 1 teaspoon (3g) of ground P. hoogshagenii/semperviva rice and 1 tablespoon (10g) ground Lion’s Mane rice, which he consumes in three separate servings (so 1g of the Psilocybe rice and 3g lion's mane rice per serving), along with a little niacin (vitamin B3).

It's early days but he is reporting quite a pronounced effect of enhanced clarity, focus and attention, with more motivation and less desire to procrastinate. It’s worth noting that Paul Stamets’ Host Defense lion’s mane products are also 100% mycelium on brown rice.

From left to right: ground lion’s mane rice, ground P. hoogshagenii/semperviva rice and niacin. The mycelium rice flour is stored in the fridge with desiccant packs.
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mycelium rice.jpg (253kb) downloaded 314 time(s).
 
Bancopuma
#28 Posted : 12/9/2019 6:39:06 PM

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A friend and I sampled some Caerulescens mycelium (on rice)...it was only 6 weeks old following inoculation. We started off with 4 tablespoons of the grain gently simmered, and ingested in the form of cocoa...this first dose produced subtle effects so two hours in we had a top up, of another 3 tablespoons...so 7 tablespoons in total, but staggered. In my case, it boosted the experience a little, but it was still quite subtle...but my friend had a relatively short lasting, but immersive and powerful experience that she described as feeling highly reminiscent to her of ayahuasca, based on her prior experiences with that. Clearly our sensitivities vary! I appreciate incubation time wasn't long so this may well have impacted potency, but it seems that the Hoogshagenii/Semperviva is a great deal more potent by weight in mycelium-grain form. My friend who wrote this tek sampled 8 tablespoons of Caerulescens mycelium on rice and equated it to around 1.5-2g of dried Cubensis mushrooms...so in other words, unlike the former, perhaps not worth the effort using this approach (although strangely it was another grower who set this all in motion by reporting impressive effects ingesting 4 tablespoons of Caerulescens mycelium on rice incubated for 2 months).

I'm in the process of inoculating grain jars (rice, oats and rye grain to compare) with Azurescens, Caerulescens, Mexicana, Hoogshagenii/Semperviva and Zapotecorum, it will be interesting to compare these different species side by side on different grain types and different incubation times. I'm also making up a load of lion's mane LC, keen to experiment with the previously mentioned nootropic Stamets stack. Thumbs up
 
endlessness
#29 Posted : 2/17/2020 12:29:33 AM

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Thanks for sharing the tek and general infoSmile

Maybe I missed the explanation somewhere but, why not doing this with cubensis too, is it simply because fruiting is so easy?

Regarding alkaloid content of fruit vs mycelium, here's a few publications I've found:

Psilocybe cubensis: 0.22-0.54% psilocybin in agar-grown mycelium (Catalfolmo & Tyler 1964) (not too different than average values for fruiting body content as referenced in Trout's SST)

Psilocybe bohemica: 0.15-0.21% psilocybin, no other alks detected in mycelium grown on agar, compared to 0.54% avg psilocybin + 0.01% psilocin + 0.01 baeocystin in fruiting bodies (gartz & muller 1989)

Psilocybe samuiensis: 0.24-0.32% psilocybin in agar-grown mycelium with no other detected alkaloids vs 0.36-0.73% psilocybin + 0.21-0.52% psilocin + 0.02-0.05% baeocystin in fruiting bodies (Gartz et al 1994)

Panaeolus subbalteatus: 0.07% psilocybin in mycelium vs 0.08-0.70% psilocybin + 0.05-0.46% baeocystin in fruiting bodies (Gartz 1992)


Seems that it varies by species, but that in mycelium it generally only has psilocybin, and usually less than in fruiting bodies but still significant.
 
Bancopuma
#30 Posted : 2/21/2020 2:24:09 PM

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Hey endlessness Very happy

Thanks a lot for sharing this excellent information! This is all new to me. P. cubensis has more potent mycelium than I was expecting which is interesting to know...I will explore this further. But yeah I think given how easy it is to fruit this species in great abundance, I don't see much of an advantage to this tek...it is better suited for more exotic species that take much longer to fruit and produce lower yields. It's still early days with bioassaying species but P. hoogshagenii/semperviva seems like a particularly promising and dependable species with this tek in mind.
 
Bancopuma
#31 Posted : 2/23/2020 1:50:18 AM

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Yesterday I finally got round to sampling my own homegrown Stamet's neurotrophic stack, using P. hoogshagenii/Semperviva and lion's mane mycelium both grown on rice using this tek. Two of us sampled 100mg of dried, powdered Semperviva, a teaspoon of lion's mane and 100mg of niacin mixed into a fruit smoothie, to surprisingly potent effect (definitely exceeding microdosing territory!). Will lower my dose next time, as nice as it was, but intrigued to explore this more. I suspect the lion’s mane was adding something to the party, but the 10 week old Semperviva rice was markedly more potent than my previous batch that was 6 weeks old. I'm impressed, this species is definitely a dependably potent species in mycelium form, and definitely a goer as far as this tek is concerned. I definitely advocate a slightly longer incubation time going on this experience, I'll incubate future jars for 3 months.
 
Bancopuma
#32 Posted : 2/24/2020 3:14:26 PM

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This is some lion's mane growing using this tek...it can be seen fruiting at the top of the jar. This is cool as apparently the mycelium and fruiting bodies of this fungus contain varying types of active compounds (the mycelium containing erinacines, the fruiting body containing hericenones), so when one dries and powders the contents, you get the best of both on consumption (leaving for 2 months post-inoculation prior to harvest, and will use some jars to colonise larger growbags). I've just started incorporating this into my diet, early days but am impressed so far, I've noticed a welcome mental clarity since I've started using it. An increasing body of research to show a range of health benefits associated with this fungus, and it is one very well suited indeed to this tek.
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SynKyd
#33 Posted : 3/16/2020 1:58:37 AM

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Bancopuma wrote:
Hey endlessness Very happy

Thanks a lot for sharing this excellent information! This is all new to me. P. cubensis has more potent mycelium than I was expecting which is interesting to know...I will explore this further. But yeah I think given how easy it is to fruit this species in great abundance, I don't see much of an advantage to this tek...it is better suited for more exotic species that take much longer to fruit and produce lower yields. It's still early days with bioassaying species but P. hoogshagenii/semperviva seems like a particularly promising and dependable species with this tek in mind.



The stealth factor of this with cubensis should not be overlooked, if the mycelium yields are comparable you can expand very quickly to maximize your yield and reduce your time investment.
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Jagube
#34 Posted : 8/25/2020 11:36:44 AM

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SynKyd wrote:
The stealth factor of this with cubensis should not be overlooked, if the mycelium yields are comparable you can expand very quickly to maximize your yield and reduce your time investment.

But expanding to grain is prone to contamination.

Bancopuma wrote:
I'm in the process of inoculating grain jars (rice, oats and rye grain to compare) with Azurescens, Caerulescens, Mexicana, Hoogshagenii/Semperviva and Zapotecorum, it will be interesting to compare these different species side by side on different grain types and different incubation times.

Any updates here, especially on the azurescens? I find it particularly fast-colonizing (faster than caerulescens in particular).

endlessness wrote:

Psilocybe bohemica: 0.15-0.21% psilocybin, no other alks detected in mycelium grown on agar, compared to 0.54% avg psilocybin + 0.01% psilocin + 0.01 baeocystin in fruiting bodies (gartz & muller 1989)

I've heard P. bohemica fruits have caused WLP. If mycelium grown on non-wood substrates doesn't contain other alks than psilocybin, it might suggest woodlover mycelia grown on grain are a way of avoiding WLP. So it would be interesting to see how potent the mycelium of the more potent mushrooms (like P. azurescens) is.
 
Bancopuma
#35 Posted : 8/25/2020 11:44:49 AM

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I've still yet to test the other species...will definitely chime in when I do. I don't have high hopes for the Azurescens grain, or the other species though from what I've heard from others...P. hoogshagenii/semperviva is definitely a very special species with regard the potency of its mycelium, no other species come close...the species P. pseudoaztecorum also posesses active mycelium, but is not as potent.

This is pretty cool peeps...my homegrown lion's mane experiments have exceeded my wildest expectations! A 5 week old jar (on easy cook wholegrain rice)...a screwed down, taped up jar lid was not sufficient to keep the tenacious tendrils of this fungal mycelium down...not perhaps that surprising as it can force its way through wood, but still! Love the tenacity of this species, was nice to sample the fruit body too...I'm not even much of a fan of mushrooms in a culinary sense, but this is one I would be interested in exploring further...I'm growing this for both the mycelium and the fruit bodies, but in the future it might be fun to scale up to mycobags and woodchips specifically for the fruit bodies. A great species!
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Jagube
#36 Posted : 8/30/2020 11:59:21 AM

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Thanks.

Another idea: could the grain be skipped and the myc be grown as liquid culture?

Apparently that's how Cordyceps is grown commercially: https://blog.freshcapmus...dyceps-mushroom-health/

Quote:
Cs-4 Grown as Liquid Culture
The best way to produce Cs-4 (really the only way to do it right) is to grow the mycelium in a nutrient rich liquid culture. Picture large fermentation tanks, with the strands of mycelium suspended in a liquid, rapidly growing and expanding. Once the mycelium has expanded as much as it can, it is pulled out of the liquid, dried, and pulverized into a powder that is 100% pure mycelium.

Producing Cs-4 in this manner will ensure that the end product has a compound profile that is similar to that of wild harvested fruiting bodies.

One could grow P. semperviva/hoogshagenii the same way and achieve a greater concentration of the actives and greater purity, or am I missing something?
Liquid cultures are also easier to grow if steps are taken to avoid contamination; for one, they colonize faster than grains.
 
Bancopuma
#37 Posted : 9/17/2020 4:09:33 PM

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I'm not sure how well this LC approach would work for production alone. I don't think one would get good bang for your buck doing it this way. Psilocybin isn't biosynthesised in isolation by the fungus, but by using the precursory amino acid tryptophan and phosphorus, which are both found in abundance in grain substrates such as rice and oats, but not in agar or LC. So I think one is liable to get better results growing the mycelium out on grain, although exploring nutrient-enriched LC's could be something to explore potentially.
 
Jagube
#38 Posted : 12/27/2020 6:09:04 PM

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A small and vague-ish data point:

I had a small jar of what was labeled as P. galindoi, but apparently the correct naming is P. tampanensis var. galindoi.
It was on WBS and part of it was colonized with mycelium, part uncolonized due to bacterial contamination. I opened it and scooped out the good parts. The grain was maybe 300 ml.

I made the myceliated grain into a tea and drank it. It was active; mild but nice.

But I've also read somewhere that someone ate 2 tbsp of galindoi myceliated grain (not sure what type) and had a good experience.
 
coAsTal
#39 Posted : 12/27/2020 7:03:52 PM

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Interesting... I wonder if it could be better explained by the nature of the Tamp range to produce sclerotia (stones).

Could there have been some small stones hidden in the mix? I've had ones in my grain jars and subs that were the size of the grains themselves-- actually many of them... and I had to look hard to separate them from the grain because they looked so similar...
 
Jagube
#40 Posted : 12/27/2020 9:06:06 PM

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coAsTal wrote:
Could there have been some small stones hidden in the mix?

In my case there were no stones.

The activity didn't come as a surprise to me. I mean, it's known that the mycelium of psilocybin-producing species does contain psilocybin, it's just a matter of how much.
 
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