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What is your opinion on ketamine? Options
 
dragonrider
#1 Posted : 10/4/2019 10:50:37 PM

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Personally, arylcyclohexylamines frighten me. That has always kept me from exploring them. I have some experience with ketamine, but i never experienced the K-hole. I did have a few very deep experiences with ibogaine though, but ibogaine ofcourse is way more than just an NMDA-antagonist.

Do you think that from a psychedelic point of view, i'm missing out on something by avoiding these substances?
 

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benzyme
#2 Posted : 10/5/2019 1:28:38 AM

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a k-hole is a less frightening prospect than a dmt breakthrough.
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Mindlusion
#3 Posted : 10/5/2019 1:40:40 AM

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benzyme wrote:
a k-hole is a less frightening prospect than a dmt breakthrough.


Exactly. Therein lies it's enticing charm.
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
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FranLover
#4 Posted : 10/5/2019 2:21:50 AM

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Does ketamine have buddah nature?

I'm positive you are not missing out. Ketamine is beautiful to me, but because its beautiful doesnt mean one need indluge in it.
Todo lo que quiero es que me recuerdes siempre así...amándote. Mantay kuna kayadidididi~~Ayahuasca shamudididi. Silence ○ Shiva ◇ eternal Purusha.
What we have done is establish the rule of authority in silence. Silence is the administrator of the universe. In silence is the script of Natural Law, eternally guiding the destiny of everyone. The Joy of Giving See the job. Do the job. Stay out of the misery.
May this world be established with a sense of well-being and happiness. May all beings in all worlds be blessed with peace, contentment, and freedom.
This mass of stress visible in the here & now has sensuality for its reason, sensuality for its source, sensuality for its cause, the reason being simply sensuality.
 
benzyme
#5 Posted : 10/5/2019 3:39:36 AM

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IME, the dissociatives show the void, which can be a comfortable place. numbing.
But it's not exactly enlightening. NMDA-antagonists are inhibitory by nature, they inhibit the excitatory ionotropic neurotransmitter Glutamate.

I have yet to break through on DMT, but studies have recently shown that the human brain can actually discern 11 different dimensions. Idk if it's coincidence, but Michio Kaku elucidated the 11-dimensional model in his groundbreaking work "Hyperspace", published in 1994.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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KuzeMaf
#6 Posted : 10/5/2019 5:38:44 AM

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Ketamine has been most enlightening for me. In its own right. Then again when administered alongside LSD.

I definitely find an inner peace with most of the dissociatives , but ketamine offered me something very beautiful. I've had about 20 experiences with ketamine and can only ever remember about 3 k hole experiences, which I didn't mind at all.

I would like to have more time with Ketamine, but I'm afraid it's cons outweigh the pros for me. Ever since I saw the research with the ketamine addicts in which MRI's showed K induced brain lesions in chronic long term users, I've been uninterested in further exploration.

Love and Light and Travel Well.
 
dragonrider
#7 Posted : 10/5/2019 3:44:20 PM

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Mindlusion wrote:
benzyme wrote:
a k-hole is a less frightening prospect than a dmt breakthrough.


Exactly. Therein lies it's enticing charm.

That is one of the things that frightens me about these substances.

The other thing is how they cloud your judgement. The feeling that you are maybe a bit wobly, but not realy that heavily intoxicated at all. The feeling that it is just a funny drug, completely safe.

A dangerous combination.
 
SpaceGandalf
#8 Posted : 10/5/2019 5:36:31 PM

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First of all I’m not going to encourage Ketamine usage because of known associated risks, however we should get some facts straight:

The risks of causing brain lesions (damage) is not cut and dry. The clear evidence of risk is associated with severe abusive use - we’re talking about people that use it daily. There is some evidence that regular moderate usage (eg a gram twice a week for half a year) may cause a small amount of damage. However it is important to understand that this is not based on isolated modelling, ie, there are potentially other contributing factors. There has been some isolated modelling with rodents and primates that have illustrated damage to the brain, however this was in relation to high frequency usage.

There is a much clearer risk of damage to the lower urinary tract, bladder and kidneys in long term use. There is now a recognised condition called “ketamine bladder syndrome” that is very common amongst ketamine users. This is no small matter as even a mild case of this condition can cause a significant impact on your life.

It’s important to note that these risks are associated with regular usage. Trying it a few times will be unlikely to cause long term damage - HOWEVER; ketamine does not occur naturally and is ridiculously difficult to synthesise, which means that ketamine that is available for recreational use carries significant additional risks.

All this said, as a party drug I still think it is much safer than mdma and amphetamine (coke is just for arseholes)
 
KuzeMaf
#9 Posted : 10/5/2019 5:48:58 PM

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SpaceGandalf wrote:


There is a much clearer risk of damage to the lower urinary tract, bladder and kidneys in long term use. There is now a recognised condition called “ketamine bladder syndrome” that is very common amongst ketamine users. This is no small matter as even a mild case of this condition can cause a significant impact on your life.


All this said, as a party drug I still think it is much safer than mdma and amphetamine (coke is just for arseholes)



Yea, I completely forgot about the horrid effects that chronic long term usage can have on the bladder. Thanks for the reminder.


I personally don't view ketamine to be any safer than either of the other 2 compounds mentioned.

Every molecule has its place.
 
SpaceGandalf
#10 Posted : 10/5/2019 6:04:07 PM

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Ketamine as a psychedelic:

On it’s own - don’t make me fucking laugh, it causes AMNESIA! In high enough doses to have a proper psychedelic experience you are gonna remember fuck all. In small doses it can be fun - distortions in your perception of space and time, along with a mental and body “high” with a sense of feeling relaxed (much like getting drunk - but NEVER take it with alcohol! EVER!). If you were to use it intravenous with a very carefully measured dose you might be able to get a psychedelic experience that you can remember, but snorting it is like riding a bucking bull, blindfolded with your arms tied behind your back.

Combined with other substances is another story, that’s when weird shit starts to happen. Possibly the most interesting aspect is it’s dissociative effect, which can help with trip anxiety. However it won’t save you from a bad trip - trust me on that one!!!

The best uses for ketamine are medical; as a general anaesthetic that doesn’t effect the respiratory system, and as a rapid acting anti-depressant.

Used in small doses you can bounce around a party having fun, but don’t expect to find enlightenment with this substance.
 
FranLover
#11 Posted : 10/5/2019 7:58:46 PM

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Its obvious to me that the right person with the right mind can find enlightment with this molecule. It has that potential.
Todo lo que quiero es que me recuerdes siempre así...amándote. Mantay kuna kayadidididi~~Ayahuasca shamudididi. Silence ○ Shiva ◇ eternal Purusha.
What we have done is establish the rule of authority in silence. Silence is the administrator of the universe. In silence is the script of Natural Law, eternally guiding the destiny of everyone. The Joy of Giving See the job. Do the job. Stay out of the misery.
May this world be established with a sense of well-being and happiness. May all beings in all worlds be blessed with peace, contentment, and freedom.
This mass of stress visible in the here & now has sensuality for its reason, sensuality for its source, sensuality for its cause, the reason being simply sensuality.
 
Nydex
#12 Posted : 10/5/2019 8:57:02 PM

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FranLover wrote:
Its obvious to me that the right person with the right mind can find enlightment with this molecule. It has that potential.

I have to absolutely agree with that, Fran. Under the right conditions (i.e. mindset, physical condition, environment, proper dosage) this molecule has immense potential. I haven't had that many experiences with it (not more than 20, around 5 of which were K-holes), but I've seen both ends of the spectrum. Just to add to the topic contents, here are my two most notable experiences with Ketamine, in both ends of the spectrum:
My most beautiful ketamine experience
I disrespected ketamine and paid for it


Based on this I think it's safe to say that ketamine CAN be enlightening and profound. It can, of course, be terrifying too. But that applies to any psychedelic if you think about it.

I remain humbled in the face of this substance, and if I ever decide to go for a K-hole again, I'll make sure I've done my prior work very, very diligently. I'm not taking any conscious risks with K anymore, ever again.

Be well. Love
Break free from the chains of your beliefs. It is only then that you may find a moment of blissful stillness amidst the raging storm. Stay awhile and listen. The winds of truth shall fill your sails, and the oceans of hidden and long forgotten knowledge, ancient as the cosmos itself, will be yours to explore.
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O, supreme beings of the higher realms, allow me to venture into your dimensions. I come with love and with harmony. I bring no hatred and carry no malevolence in my soul. I come to learn and to grow. Show me your world and gift me some of your knowledge. Ask me, and I shall answer with honesty; hug me, and I shall hug you back; advise me, and I shall follow your wisdom. Heal me from my fear and give me insight. There is little I can offer back but my love and trust. O, supreme beings of the higher realms... I am yours.
 
coAsTal
#13 Posted : 10/5/2019 9:31:52 PM

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I'd try it if I could get it-- I view Ket as one of the worthwhile substances to try.

As well said above-- it would absolutely require saturation of information about dosing and effects to make sure you go in eyes-open.

I'm not a personal fan of those that would forbid/dismiss out-of-hand something because it *can* be dangerous-- that's a little over-reactionary in my view, and it is heavily contradicted with reams of people having life-benefiting positive experiences...

That said, extreme preparation and caution should guide any exploration--same as every other drug out there. No more, no less.
 
SpaceGandalf
#14 Posted : 10/6/2019 11:16:41 AM

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KuzeMaf wrote:
I personally don't view ketamine to be any safer than either of the other 2 compounds mentioned.

Every molecule has its place.


The point I was trying to make is that the purity of mdma and speed is normally much more dodgy than ketamine. Recent testing shows that speed is an average only 5% the desired ingredient! The manufacture of mdma and speed also creates nasty by-products that can be contaminants. Because Ketamine is so difficult to manufacture, the majority (if not all) the recreationally available K comes from industrially synthesised sources (in India) - mdma and speed on the recreational market normally comes from illegal labs.

Add to this the much higher health risks from speed and mdma over ketamine, and I think it’s reasonable to call it safer. In terms of short term use the risks around the former in regards to respiratory and pulmonary systems makes them far more dangerous.

There is an additional layer of benefit to K - NO COMEDOWN! Sure, if you stay up all night partying on K you will feel shitty the next day, but that’s just because you were up all night. Mdma and speed on the other hand have horrible comedowns. Mdma can actually cause really horrible depression and speed withdrawal is fucking horrific - unless of course you like extreme paranoia and feeling like your veins are crawling with insects.

I will however extol the benefits of short term use of mdma - it has been shown to create a long term increase empathy, also I know someone who has been working (legally) with it to treat PTSD.
 
Exitwound
#15 Posted : 10/6/2019 3:10:31 PM

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Never had any bad comedown from molly, always a positive afterglow, but I use only pure m as crystals, always test, never use pills. Also never use m more frequently than 3-4 times per year.

K is great but health risks and addiction risks make it not worthwile for regular use.
 
dragonrider
#16 Posted : 10/6/2019 4:51:36 PM

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SpaceGandalf wrote:
Ketamine as a psychedelic:

On it’s own - don’t make me fucking laugh, it causes AMNESIA! In high enough doses to have a proper psychedelic experience you are gonna remember fuck all. In small doses it can be fun - distortions in your perception of space and time, along with a mental and body “high” with a sense of feeling relaxed (much like getting drunk - but NEVER take it with alcohol! EVER!). If you were to use it intravenous with a very carefully measured dose you might be able to get a psychedelic experience that you can remember, but snorting it is like riding a bucking bull, blindfolded with your arms tied behind your back.

Combined with other substances is another story, that’s when weird shit starts to happen. Possibly the most interesting aspect is it’s dissociative effect, which can help with trip anxiety. However it won’t save you from a bad trip - trust me on that one!!!

The best uses for ketamine are medical; as a general anaesthetic that doesn’t effect the respiratory system, and as a rapid acting anti-depressant.

Used in small doses you can bounce around a party having fun, but don’t expect to find enlightenment with this substance.

What substances does it go well with? And what doses? I can imagine it would go well with LSD. Would it be safe to take it with ayahuasca?
 
pete666
#17 Posted : 10/6/2019 5:01:13 PM

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The best combo I know is molly and once active, applying K. Few K-holes within one session are possible, but it requires molly redosing.
And last but not least - good music. Applied with K.
Acceptance of the fact that our reality is not real doesn't in fact mean it is not real. It just leads to better understanding what real means.
 
Nydex
#18 Posted : 10/6/2019 8:26:14 PM

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pete666 wrote:
And last but not least - good music. Applied with K.

Hmm, interesting. In my experience, ketamine distorts sound terribly. I've tried playing music I love a couple of times while on K but it gets so fragmented and twisted that I don't even recognize it at some point, and it becomes very unpleasant. Kind of like clutter that makes the experience more chaotic and gives it a "contaminated" feel, if you know what I mean.

Maybe that's just me though. Haven't discussed it with other people I think. I seem to be able to extract the most benefit of the experience in complete silence and darkness.
Break free from the chains of your beliefs. It is only then that you may find a moment of blissful stillness amidst the raging storm. Stay awhile and listen. The winds of truth shall fill your sails, and the oceans of hidden and long forgotten knowledge, ancient as the cosmos itself, will be yours to explore.
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O, supreme beings of the higher realms, allow me to venture into your dimensions. I come with love and with harmony. I bring no hatred and carry no malevolence in my soul. I come to learn and to grow. Show me your world and gift me some of your knowledge. Ask me, and I shall answer with honesty; hug me, and I shall hug you back; advise me, and I shall follow your wisdom. Heal me from my fear and give me insight. There is little I can offer back but my love and trust. O, supreme beings of the higher realms... I am yours.
 
pete666
#19 Posted : 10/6/2019 8:46:43 PM

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Nydex wrote:

Hmm, interesting. In my experience, ketamine distorts sound terribly. I've tried playing music I love a couple of times while on K but it gets so fragmented and twisted that I don't even recognize it at some point, and it becomes very unpleasant. Kind of like clutter that makes the experience more chaotic and gives it a "contaminated" feel, if you know what I mean.

Maybe that's just me though. Haven't discussed it with other people I think. I seem to be able to extract the most benefit of the experience in complete silence and darkness.


Yes, exactly this is what I have when only K is in the system. K alone is raw.
With molly this is absolutely differenct story. It is like totally different drug, nothing like molly or K alone. Absolutely smooth experience. If there is any synergy between drugs, it is here imo.
Acceptance of the fact that our reality is not real doesn't in fact mean it is not real. It just leads to better understanding what real means.
 
Nydex
#20 Posted : 10/6/2019 8:59:38 PM

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pete666 wrote:
Nydex wrote:

Hmm, interesting. In my experience, ketamine distorts sound terribly. I've tried playing music I love a couple of times while on K but it gets so fragmented and twisted that I don't even recognize it at some point, and it becomes very unpleasant. Kind of like clutter that makes the experience more chaotic and gives it a "contaminated" feel, if you know what I mean.

Maybe that's just me though. Haven't discussed it with other people I think. I seem to be able to extract the most benefit of the experience in complete silence and darkness.


Yes, exactly this is what I have when only K is in the system. K alone is raw.
With molly this is absolutely differenct story. It is like totally different drug, nothing like molly or K alone. Absolutely smooth experience. If there is any synergy between drugs, it is here imo.

Oh you meant music during that combo...I see. I haven't combined them ever, but it sounds exciting. Might do it soon, depending on how lazy or active the substance fairies are! Big grin
Break free from the chains of your beliefs. It is only then that you may find a moment of blissful stillness amidst the raging storm. Stay awhile and listen. The winds of truth shall fill your sails, and the oceans of hidden and long forgotten knowledge, ancient as the cosmos itself, will be yours to explore.
Quote:
O, supreme beings of the higher realms, allow me to venture into your dimensions. I come with love and with harmony. I bring no hatred and carry no malevolence in my soul. I come to learn and to grow. Show me your world and gift me some of your knowledge. Ask me, and I shall answer with honesty; hug me, and I shall hug you back; advise me, and I shall follow your wisdom. Heal me from my fear and give me insight. There is little I can offer back but my love and trust. O, supreme beings of the higher realms... I am yours.
 
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