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Acacia + Mimosa Heart Chakra discovery of the century! Loveliest psychedelic Evurrrrrrrrr Options
 
GordoTEK
#21 Posted : 8/10/2019 6:07:54 PM

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I'm interested in where this goes. Can you post a pic of the thin-layer chromatography?
Can you describe in more detail what you experience and the exact protocol that gives you the best results (you are taking harmalas first (sublingual? oral?) then vaping NMT by itself but probably not pure, then vaping this other unknown substance separately? What is the timing between each of these actions? How long does the overall experience last? You mentioned pulling it from acacia, then later pulling it from mimosa, are you saying it's in both? And all you did was base to a higher pH (to what pH exactly?) and pull with naphtha after you had already done pulls to remove the DMT?

People have been pulling "red junk" from bark for a long time (see all the references to "jungle spice"Pleased. What makes you so sure this is something different?
 

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moyshekapoyre
#22 Posted : 8/10/2019 6:59:35 PM
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GordoTEK wrote:
I'm interested in where this goes. Can you post a pic of the thin-layer chromatography?


I will post it once I extract the metta molecule in a more pure form as I did before. Doing another A/B now on ACRB. I gave away all the good stuff and left myself with some crude extracts which "almost" work. They get me close but no cigar. But even that "pure" stuff is still full of things probably. It looks like a red/pink liquid. I'm not sure TLC is going to tell me much. I may end up just sending some off to Endlessness to do some GC/MS.

GordoTEK wrote:
Can you describe in more detail what you experience and the exact protocol that gives you the best results (you are taking harmalas first (sublingual? oral?) then vaping NMT by itself but probably not pure, then vaping this other unknown substance separately? What is the timing between each of these actions? How long does the overall experience last?


I dose harmalas orally (it would work by vaping but you'd need to vape a really good dose of them which I don't yet have the best paraphernalia for). Once I feel strong harmala effects like time slowing down etc, I vape the NMT (which like you said is not pure at all but it's pure enough that I don't feel any DMT effects at all--I guess NMT has a higher receptor binding affinity) and the metta molecule. Vaping them together works fine. Separately seems to work also as long as they are vaped close together timewise.

The experience lasts about as long as changa I guess, which is to say, it is dose dependent and you can make it last longer by vaping more. I'm pretty sure this can also be all done orally but I haven't yet taken all 3 things orally yet, tho I have taken the metta molecule orally which did work sort of (weird side effect of brain zaps tho but not exactly painful), and I took the NMT orally another time, which was quite nice.

Ok to describe the experience is a bit difficult (I already did describe it so now I'm trying to think how else to describe it without repeating myself). So, with changa/ayahuasca I feel a transcendent push which goes directly to my crown & third eye chakras. If I offer no resistance it can be quite beautiful, but it's a challenge to the ego to let go, and it is generally sort of "beyond emotions" if that makes any sense. Like, emotions are seen as not-mine and I become detached fast. Changa/ayahuasca can be blissful for sure, in some cases, but it's a transcendent bliss that has nothing to do with this conventional reality.

With the metta molecule (red/pink from Acacia, remember, not jungle spice) + NMT, the perfection of what is here right now seems to open up without any ego battle or mindfuck. It is totally heart-centered. Everything is love. It can become an ego-challenge at higher doses but still it's love-centered so it's less of a "threat." They say MDMA is this amazing thing for therapy. Well, this is all of the best of what I've heard of MDMA without any of the side effects. Once the peak experience (I refer to it as "magic love rainbows"Pleased winds down, I feel extremely "in command" of my subconscious, like I got life all figured out. Exercise feels awesome (I usually avoid the pull-up bar I have) and my posture self-corrects. It feels almost like how perfect I feel after fully letting go into "ego death" on ayahuasca, except there was no ego death required. I put ego death in quotes btw because I know it refers to different things for different people. Thusness has a sort of ego death map which he calls stages of awakening.

With a low dose of magic love rainbows (metta+NMT), I'm still able to talk and function normally so that nobody would really know I'm high except if they see my smile. I might be typing this now while high on it and you wouldn't know. I am not the type anymore to get hooked on drug experiences, so I have no desire to use this stuff except to try to perfect the extraction for others to try it, but I can see how this could be psychologically addictive, but I'd rather be someone addicted to this than other things. Again I think it would be best used in a therapy setting or maybe a meditation class for people that "can't meditate."


GordoTEK wrote:
You mentioned pulling it from acacia, then later pulling it from mimosa, are you saying it's in both? And all you did was base to a higher pH (to what pH exactly?) and pull with naphtha after you had already done pulls to remove the DMT?

People have been pulling "red junk" from bark for a long time (see all the references to "jungle spice"Pleased. What makes you so sure this is something different?


Jungle spice is from Mimosa hostilis. I have jungle spice here as well and I'm not personally a fan of it tho I know some like it. (EDIT: On Dec. 30, 2019, I just discovered something in my Mimosa hostilis which has extraordinarily similar heart chakra effects to Metta + NMT but does not require the harmala dose that Metta + NMT does. Even tho I have had very little sensitivity lately to Metta + NMT, this new molecule from mimosa blew me away like the first time I ever did Metta + NMT. The visuals were not as apparent, but the magic love bliss effect was pretty much identical. This comes out in an acetone extraction with bark that is high in NMT, BEFORE the jungle spice comes out. If I let the acetone sit in the bark overnight, that's when the jungle comes out. I am absolutely astounded that there are multiple things that can produce this effect and that I've randomly found 2 of them.)

The metta & NMT both come from Acacia confusa. It just so happens right now I have some mimosa which contains a good amount of NMT (confirmed with TLC), but that's not worth mentioning here.

I think that many people have seen this red goo in their Acacia confusa extracts and just didn't know what it was. A few people mentioned they tried it and it was nice. So that's the stuff I'm calling metta. It's peaceful and brings out this beauty in things.... but only when it is combined with harmalas & NMT is the true awesome perfect magic unlocked.

From what I can tell it does require a fairly high pH to pull the metta goo out, tho I have not measured the pH, but I generally just basify the bark until it turns black and I believe that is around pH 14 from tests that I've done before. Perhaps at pH 13 you would still get the stuff--I'm not really sure. But anyway, if you don't get the red/pink liquid/goo, just basify some more. It's in there. I believe that an A/B yields a more pure form of the metta molecule than an STB. For some reason it seems that if the metta extract is a bit too crude, it will "almost" get you to the magic perfection and you can literally feel like you are an inch away, but you won't make it there.

The more DMT you remove, the purer the NMT will be of course, and the more likely this is to work. If I have too much DMT in my NMT, it throws it off and feels like half-way between DMT & NMT effects. From what I can tell, DMT is what comes out first, at lower pH, with less solvent, and then the NMT tends to come out (along with some more DMT).
 
Jagube
#23 Posted : 8/10/2019 11:11:48 PM

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I get brain zaps with MHRB tea and I wonder if it could be that it's the same metta molecule in MHRB, only with DMT and no NMT present it doesn't feel the same?

Thanks for sharing your discovery. I'm not a fan of ACRB tea, so if I can extract DMT and separately NMT*metta, it would be a way of turning one 'unnice' thing into two nice ones.
 
moyshekapoyre
#24 Posted : 8/10/2019 11:41:47 PM
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I have not found the metta molecule in MHRB, but I have found NMT in some batches of MHRB. Different people get different side effects from things. I don't think just because you got some brain zaps means you got the metta molecule, but if you notice the walls turning pink and a sense of peace and beauty as well, then maybe, but again, I really don't think this can be found in mimosa hostilis.

(EDIT: On Dec. 30, 2019, I just discovered something in my Mimosa hostilis which has extraordinarily similar heart chakra effects to Metta + NMT but does not require the harmala dose that Metta + NMT does. Even tho I have had very little sensitivity lately to Metta + NMT, this new molecule from mimosa blew me away like the first time I ever did Metta + NMT. The visuals were not as apparent, but the magic love bliss effect was pretty much identical. This comes out in an acetone extraction with bark that is high in NMT, BEFORE the jungle spice comes out. If I let the acetone sit in the bark overnight, that's when the jungle comes out. I am absolutely astounded that there are multiple things that can produce this effect and that I've randomly found 2 of them.)
 
moyshekapoyre
#25 Posted : 8/11/2019 10:31:34 AM
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Minor update. Wish I had Shulgin here to help with all this.

Anyway, still trying to get the good stuff I got before.

One thing I thought might have been "metta" (tho it looked different) turns out to be probably metta plus some other thing. It felt kind of like metta by itself, but then when I vaped NMT to "unlock the magic love rainbows" it turned dysphoric! Yuck. Luckily I had watched a bunch of videos about Shaolin superhumans which convinced me that I could feel however I wished. That kinda worked. I'm not really a Shaolin superhuman yet... but when I do the Metta-NMT (the real stuff or even the stuff that's close to real) I do start feeling the Chi flow in my body and such.

Man Acacia confusa has a bunch of psychoactives in it, from what I can tell!
 
OneIsEros
#26 Posted : 8/12/2019 3:38:47 AM
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moyshekapoyre wrote:
I have tried taking the metta molecule itself orally with harmalas, just one drop of it, and it was lovely except that it produced fairly frequent brain zaps which I don't generally get with psychedelics. The zaps were not exactly painful but just ... jolting. I was afraid to go higher on the dose after that.


Your fear is well founded. Brain zaps are an indicator a seizure might be coming on. Seizures are possibly the only real physical danger the (generally) non-toxic psychedelics (DMT/psilocybin/mescaline/LSD) actually pose.

If you are experiencing brain zaps, do not take any additional drugs, find a safe place, and lay down with your eyes closed and relax as best you can - preferably with a friend who knows how to take care of someone having a seizure hanging out with you. Seizures can occasionally cause brain damage and death. They are rare but not to be fucked with. I say this as someone who has suffered from epilepsy and grand-mal seizures. Never caused by hallucinogens, but I did feel the signs coming on in an ayahuasca trip I had once. Lucky nothing happened.
 
moyshekapoyre
#27 Posted : 8/12/2019 5:47:32 AM
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OneIsEros wrote:
moyshekapoyre wrote:
I have tried taking the metta molecule itself orally with harmalas, just one drop of it, and it was lovely except that it produced fairly frequent brain zaps which I don't generally get with psychedelics. The zaps were not exactly painful but just ... jolting. I was afraid to go higher on the dose after that.


Your fear is well founded. Brain zaps are an indicator a seizure might be coming on. Seizures are possibly the only real physical danger the (generally) non-toxic psychedelics (DMT/psilocybin/mescaline/LSD) actually pose.

If you are experiencing brain zaps, do not take any additional drugs, find a safe place, and lay down with your eyes closed and relax as best you can - preferably with a friend who knows how to take care of someone having a seizure hanging out with you. Seizures can occasionally cause brain damage and death. They are rare but not to be fucked with. I say this as someone who has suffered from epilepsy and grand-mal seizures. Never caused by hallucinogens, but I did feel the signs coming on in an ayahuasca trip I had once. Lucky nothing happened.


Ugh, thanks so much for your post, OneIsEros. You basically confirmed my suspicion that it was a warning sign of a seizure. I would at this point not recommend using the metta molecule orally with harmalas based on my own limited experience. If you do, please use the lowest possible dose, and first vape the stuff with NMT so you know that this is indeed Metta, because apparently Acacia must have a bunch of sort of fake Metta stuff in it that sort of feels a little bit like it until NMT shows you what it really is. I actually do believe that I have had a seizure before from using too much DMT in my ayahuasca (I think it was like 5g mimosa which was about 100mg DMT). Reason I think I had a seizure is because after the trip, my lip was busted like I bit it or something, and my face was scratched up also, like I got in a sort of mild MMA fight or something. I was in bed btw. This was years ago. I pretty much never do high doses anymore (no need, I'm just testing stuff out to what's what & how potent).

Anyways, I'm sorry to report more confusing stuff here. I just did an A/B on 1kg Acacia confusa (same vendor in Hawai'i) to try to get the metta molecule out. It did not work. I started with 250g lye in the acidified (dilute HCl) Acacia liquid (and the Acacia liquid tasted a bit sour and looked pink, so pH was about right I think, but not sure where my pH meter went lol). The lye turned it black & hot. I don't think more lye could help at this point. Added about 500mL heptane to this 1.5L liquid and shook vigorously for a few mins in a sep funnel. Separation was very fast. The heptane really did not seem to pull much out tho (no precip in freezer). So, I based the bark that I thought was sufficiently extracted (I had cooked it in this dilute HCl for an hour and left overnight, then strained thru nut milk bag). Turns out the bark was definitely not extracted well (why?) because heptane turned reddish and the precip was plentiful, with I guess DMT/NMT and a little bit of reddish stuff bottom but hardly any.

Ok, now, going back in my memory banks to what I actually originally got which kind of shocked me when I saw it in the freezer: the solvent was one layer, then at the bottom of the solvent was a *RED LIQUID*. I think this may be a bit rare to be getting a red liquid at the bottom of the solvent layer in the freezer, no? Anyway I syringed off that red liquid and threw it in the dehydrator on max overnight. It did not turn into anything else, just stayed as a red liquid (I suppose some sort of lipid...). Anyway, that's the stuff that when I vape it, even if I add DMSO (yuck aroma by itself), the aroma of this when I exhale from my nose, is absolutely, EXQUISITE. Reminds me of like... kissing my wife... smelling beautiful roses or something. It is a powerful, intoxicating aroma. I am beginning to think that maybe not all Acacia confusa bark contains this stuff. Perhaps growing conditions determine whether it is produced? Ugh.

Ok, so anyway. I DID find some mullein leaf that I had put some metta DMSO onto a while back! So I re-dissolved it in some DMSO and vaped it. Definitely, definitely this is the good stuff, because it has that intoxicating floral aroma which is absolutely unmistakable. If you vape the metta goo, it may have a sort of nice mild smell, but this stuff has a POWERFUL floral scent. And, the feeling was, lovely Smile A nice peaceful enhancement of beauty perception.

Then, I vaped some NMT. As expected... there was definite synergy... walls turning pink, rainbows ... BUT, no cigar! The Magic LOVE was almost like right there outside the window. I could FEEL it beckoning to me from a few inches away if that makes any sense. I tried vaping more metta & more NMT, but, again, all it did was kind of increase the rainbows and sense of intoxication, with a little sense of bliss, but it's not "IT!!!!" it's not "EUREKA!!!"

My wife's theory is that since I've been testing random crap that I thought was metta for days now (usually it did seem to contain some metta or something similar, but last night it was dysphoric crap), my brain is a bit fried and who knows what the half-life is of any of this junk. So, perhaps I need to take a few days break before I experiment with it again. I'm just impatient as heck to figure this out! And the worst part is I have no freakin' idea how I originally got that liquid in the freezer at the bottom of my solvent.

I was thinking of doing TLC on this metta DMSO that I have now which I'm sure is the good stuff (well 99% sure because of the smell & feeling of it despite my probable cross-tolerance issue), but I don't know if there is any point in doing TLC if DMSO is involved since maybe that could mess it all up... anyone know?
 
endlessness
#28 Posted : 8/12/2019 9:35:55 AM

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OneIsEros wrote:


Your fear is well founded. Brain zaps are an indicator a seizure might be coming on. Seizures are possibly the only real physical danger the (generally) non-toxic psychedelics (DMT/psilocybin/mescaline/LSD) actually pose.


Source?
 
endlessness
#29 Posted : 8/12/2019 9:38:06 AM

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moyshekapoyre wrote:

I was thinking of doing TLC on this metta DMSO that I have now which I'm sure is the good stuff (well 99% sure because of the smell & feeling of it despite my probable cross-tolerance issue), but I don't know if there is any point in doing TLC if DMSO is involved since maybe that could mess it all up... anyone know?


Do it, I never used DMSO nor tested a product with DMSO on TLC but its worth a try, worst that happens is it doesnt work and we all learn from it. Also keep a sample for LC-MS for the future.


Btw, before you have some external objective confirmation about your extract and whether it contains other molecules, even if it seems like you really understand what is happening, I'd suggest using expressions like "the suspected metta " instead of making absolute claims about it.

Thanks for sharing what you test and learn ! Smile

Be well!
 
moyshekapoyre
#30 Posted : 8/12/2019 10:46:28 AM
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endlessness wrote:
moyshekapoyre wrote:

I was thinking of doing TLC on this metta DMSO that I have now which I'm sure is the good stuff (well 99% sure because of the smell & feeling of it despite my probable cross-tolerance issue), but I don't know if there is any point in doing TLC if DMSO is involved since maybe that could mess it all up... anyone know?


Do it, I never used DMSO nor tested a product with DMSO on TLC but its worth a try, worst that happens is it doesnt work and we all learn from it. Also keep a sample for LC-MS for the future.


Ok... not sure how I would know if it doesn't work, since I am not sure how I would know if it does work either. We don't know what this metta really is, and TLC is basically just a tool to compare against known substances right? So if there's no reference for what the metta is on TLC then it will only tell us exactly that, correct? Do I need to read a book on TLC or am I making some sense? Anyway I did the TLC. Maybe you can see something useful here. I took a photo under the UV light. Not sure if you want me to put any type of reagent on.


endlessness wrote:

Btw, before you have some external objective confirmation about your extract and whether it contains other molecules, even if it seems like you really understand what is happening, I'd suggest using expressions like "the suspected metta " instead of making absolute claims about it.


Hehe... ok... I'm trying to understand what you're saying here. "Metta" is not a thing that can be found with LC/MS. It's a name that I'm giving to whatever the substance(s) is/are that are causing the subjective effects that I'm observing--I may as well call it "The good stuff." If we put this under LC/MS, I suspect a number of different things can be identified within it. Perhaps one of those is responsible for the main effect or perhaps it's some entourage effect, but regardless of what the LC/MS shows, the subjective effects are unchanged. I try to be as clear as I can about my degree of certainty that I have "the good stuff" and my basis for it based on the subjective effects, which is ultimately the only thing that really matters to each individual user, regardless of whether leptocladine or some flavonol is in the range of x-y%.

I bow down to your intelligence because I do truly believe you have quite a lot of it, Endlessness, which makes me think that I must be not understanding something correctly in what you are saying.

The reason for me to actually get this analyzed with professional equipment is just in the hope that maybe, per chance, we could figure out what is so special in here, so that perhaps we could even find some other plant (why am I suspecting pink lotus right now?) that might be a cheaper source to extract it from. I suppose there are also some more basic science reasons, like adding another item to the list of chemicals for neuroscientists to study in mice or something. But, the fact that we still don't even know much about what chemicals in cannabis produce what effects, makes me a bit skeptical that we're gonna "figure this all out" with some LC/MS (let alone TLC). But maybe I should be a bit less skeptical. Who knows, it may be something quite simple to figure out.
moyshekapoyre attached the following image(s):
metta dmso tlc.jpg (3,659kb) downloaded 245 time(s).
 
endlessness
#31 Posted : 8/12/2019 3:01:57 PM

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The good thing about TLC is detect a mix of substances, see the main ones, possibly identify them if you have something to compare it to.

So for example, in your case, we could see whether your different type of extracts are indeed having different substances, or if its all the same, or if its the same but in different proportions, etc.

So to get good answers in your case, I'd do a couple of different plants comparing different extracts. For example in one plate you could put in one lane the MHRB extract, in one lane the crude acacia confusa extract, in another your suspected metta. Then yet another plate you could compare your suspected metta, with your suspected separated NMT, with your suspected separated DMT. Maybe in one plate you could also do pure DMSO , your metta, and DMSO + mimosa extract, to see how it appears on the plate, that also helps as a "control".

That way you will able to see whether they are different or not, and with further reagents we can maybe identify something about their nature (for example if there is something else appart from dmt/nmt , if it reacts with ehrlich it is an indole-based substance )

Does that make sense? You are not answering all the questions by doing TLC, but you are giving a preliminary idea which can help us understand or come up with further plan on how to explore this thing.

As for the TLC plate you showed, def can see what I'd say is NMT and DMT there. There might be more but it's hard to see because the sample is too concentrated so its forming too large blurry spot. Dilute the sample to a third or a fourth of concentration and run again. And also run the examples I mentioned above. I think that'd help understanding a bit more about what is going on.

Regarding my suggestion for saying "supposed", it's just because before something is confirmed with at least some kind of independent information, we may be mistaken. Let me give you a silly example, but... I think I have plenty of experience with psychedelics and can differentiate them well and describe how I feel in each but... Once I had a mushroom experience that was so similar to a dmt experience, with very similar visuals, that I thought to myself at the time: "if it wasnt for the duration and for my clear memory that I took mushroom today, i could even believe I had smoked dmt now" .

If I can't even differentiate between two different psychedelics, could I really make absolute affirmations about what some plant extract contains based on how it subjectively felt at the time, and even talk about mixtures and ratios? Now, you may be way more accurate in your subjective perceptions than me, but all Im saying is that us, as humans, are pretty flawed in our perceptions in general. We are known to make mistaken judgements, there is a lot of social psychology research, studies on perception, etc that show how we can have our perceptions fool us even when we are totally convinced of the contrary (just look at optical illusions as a small example).

So keeping that in mind, to say our subjective perception is as accurate (or more) than analytical instruments to tell what is the chemistry of a plant extract, is a potentially problematic idea.

I just want to reaffirm the idea that you are not necessarily wrong, you might be 100% right in all your suppositions (or partially right, or not at all) all Im saying is to reserve judgement for when there is more external confirming, specially when wording things.

For example:

"NMT is also yellowish or at least off-white, whereas DMT is white "

Instead, I'd think its more fair to say: "my suspected NMT is also yellowish.... "

Or I'd preface the whole post with "when I write NMT, I mean the extract from acacia confusa as separated in this or that way"

Because that way it's more accurate, and whether in the end we do confirm your suspicions or we partly falsify it or completely contradict it with new findings, then your words will still be true. But if we show it to be partially or totally wrong with the way you had worded before, then you will be saying something false and can misinform readers. In that case, for example maybe in the future someone reads that post with that mistaken conclusion but without disclaimers or careful wording, and maybe that person doesnt read the expeirments that show it to be wrong, and the info can be spread like an unproven rumour.

Am I making sense here? Hope I'm not boring you with this and that it's not a useless nitpicking, I think it would help with the accuracy of information in general here, but I'm open to different views on what I just said.

Be well
 
downwardsfromzero
#32 Posted : 8/12/2019 4:47:11 PM

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Here's an entry with a bit of useful data regarding leptocladine.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

β€œThere is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
moyshekapoyre
#33 Posted : 8/12/2019 9:16:28 PM
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Thanks for the response, Endlessness. I'm definitely going to run those TLC plates you suggested later on today and post them.

I think there probably are more compounds in here than this TLC plate can detect, but that's just a hunch.

As for subjective experience being less useful than analytical data--I do understand where you are coming from there, but, the obverse is also the case at times. For example, I sent 4 tabs of acid to Energy Control in 2015 (and spoke to you about this at that time) and they came back with exactly the same results, zero impurities, tho one tab had less than 30ug of LSD supposedly. Zero impurities seems unbelievable in general, but specifically when most of those tabs had high body load and just felt dirty to everyone that tried them. So, do I trust the subjective experiences of various people bio-assaying, or do I trust Energy Control's equipment? Let's just say that's the last time I ever used Energy Control to try to figure out the purity of LSD.

As for your mushroom example--that is quite subjective because it was just one experience. But let's say you had a bag of those mushrooms and each time you took from that bag (as opposed to a different bag), you had the DMT trip. You offered some to some friends to see what would happen and they had the same strange reaction, not expecting it either. But your TLC plate did not show any DMT. Just regular mushroom alkaloids. What conclusion can be drawn? Also, notice that you did not say you ate what appeared to be mushrooms. You said you ate mushrooms. If the TLC plate showed zero mushroom alkaloids, then maybe they were not mushrooms... just very good approximations of what mushrooms would look and taste like.

I have had people tell me that this metta molecule I gave them has permanently changed their life in a positive way which other drugs have never done for them. There's something here that is special. If TLC or LC/MS can help determine what it is, great. If not, oh well.

You are right that I need to be more careful when I say NMT because when I ran the TLC on my NMT it appears to be mostly DMT. But like I said, with enough NMT in there, the DMT effects are totally gone. I couldn't find any data on NMT binding affinity, but I'd have to guess it's a lot higher than DMT's. Now, there's never any real certainty even with analytical techniques, as the Energy Control experiment showed me. So does that mean that I should never say "This is DMT" or "This is NMT" even if LC/MS or something shows that to be the case? I could certainly prefix everything with my levels of certainty but I think it would just become tedious to read my reports at that point. If I'm convinced I have DMT, as an experienced psychonaut, I'm not going to say "This is probably DMT based on how it felt to me." That I think would be indicating less certainty than I actually have, which would be undermining my communication, I think. I'm guessing that if I go thru your posts I'll find many instances in which you say that you had this or that experience with DMT, not "suspected DMT." Is it possible that maybe one time it was not just DMT that you used? Yes, sure, but again, there is a trade-off between being overly cautious with reporting and being "underly" informative.

And furthermore, molecules have different conformations which can change the effects (THH apparently being one example), but TLC generally would not distinguish them, from what I understand, unless they are specially constructed for the particular molecule in question. So even if TLC seems to indicate I have pure NMT, it may not be the same isomer of NMT that someone else has that was cooked up in a lab. The variables to consider about what exactly a substance is are approaching... "Endlessness"! So, I do the best I can to give some background info, and then I talk naturally.
 
moyshekapoyre
#34 Posted : 8/13/2019 6:17:54 AM
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Okydokie, good news is I managed to pull out maybe a gram of what I "feel" (psychedelic effects-wise) is what I'm calling "metta" from this ACRB, but a gram isn't much. I think I got it out with acetone from the spent bark... but I'm not entirely sure because I didn't label the jars in the dehydrator, but I'm doing another dehydrator run with more red-brownish freezer stuff and more acetone in the spent bark, so we'll see what's pulling the metta liquid. Since it's a liquid, I'm thinking perhaps the solvent has to be really warm to pull it out. Does that make sense? My attic is not nearly as warm as it was when I first pulled the metta a month ago... I should put a heat mat down under the pot...

I can sort of tell now just by looking whether I have the metta or just some NMT goop, because altho the NMT and metta can both look red after coming out of the dehydrator, the metta is much more liquidy even after cooling to room temp, and when I mix it into DMSO, the color stays red or pink even, whereas the NMT goop turns yellow in DMSO. One strange thing is the pungentness has decreased with this new metta, tho it still smells floral on exhale, and the inhale of metta feels smoother than vaping "NMT" (NMT+DMT), and way smoother than vaping DMT (oh darn, I do have some pure DMT here in DMSO I forgot about, oh well).

And, as you can see from the TLC plates, yeah, everything is everything here. Metta is coming up mostly DMT + NMT, just like my "NMT" just like my (new batch of) "DMT" at this point. I should have used my old pure DMT that I forgot I had in DMSO, but I was more interested to see whether the new stuff was pure. One thing I notice about "NMT" is that as it feels less and less like DMT, the color gets closer to yellow, and it also takes longer to dissolve in DMSO. White DMT dissolves instantly in DMSO, whereas yellow "NMT" (which again according to TLC is still mostly DMT, unless I'm reading it wrong) doesn't dissolve in DMSO at all until I heat it up.

It looks like the "metta" stuff does have some extra spot or streak above the DMT spot. Not sure if that is relevant. I have all these plates here so let me know if I should try some reagent or other. I have the six reagents in the BunkPolice basic TLC kit.

Thanks for all your Endless efforts to educate the masses, Endlessness. I think it's so awesome that you made TLC into something fairly easy for everyone to use.

Ok let me describe these plates below.

The first one is comparing the old "metta" in DMSO to the new "metta" in DMSO and then the new "metta" in the testing liquid, no DMSO.

Second plate starts with plain old DMSO (not sure why it produced a UV spot??), some DMT that had a little NMT in it (yes I could tell by vaping it that it had a little but not much NMT), and then the crude acacia extract (done with ethanol) which was too crude for TLC I guess.

Third plate has zero DMSO at all. It starts with the new "metta", then some almost pure white-looking DMT that I got from the bark which also yielded NMT (hence the bit of NMT shown there), then some yellow waxy "NMT"(mostly DMT it seems) that took some seconds of shaking to dissolve in the testing liquid (and also same issue dissolving it in DMSO).

On the fourth plate it's all DMSO dissolved stuff, starting with the old "metta" that I found yesterday, then the "DMT" which is contaminated with NMT, then the "NMT" which is contaminated with DMT. This kind of surprised me because from the TLC I can't really tell the difference between the almost pure white-looking "DMT" and the yellow waxy "NMT". I know both of them are not pure, but I can easily tell them apart by vaping them, or by dissolving them in DMSO and measuring the speed of dissolution.

I don't know why the nexus has duplicated the last image.
Don't look at the splotch in the middle at the top of each card, I think that's just me touching the card with my dirty finger.
moyshekapoyre attached the following image(s):
old metta, new metta, dmso no dmso.jpg (2,579kb) downloaded 196 time(s).
dmso, dmt+n in dmso, crude acrb extract in dmso.jpg (2,472kb) downloaded 197 time(s).
metta, dmt(+n), nmt(+d), do dmso.jpg (2,401kb) downloaded 197 time(s).
TLC of DMT, NMT, metta in DMSO.jpg (2,607kb) downloaded 196 time(s).
TLC of DMT, NMT, metta in DMSO.jpg (2,607kb) downloaded 194 time(s).
 
endlessness
#35 Posted : 8/13/2019 12:24:41 PM

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Thanks for the images!

I suggest you re-run those plates if you want, but dilute the substances a lot more. If you still have the dissolved substances, then for example for every 1ml of your previous concentration add 9ml of pure solvent, so its 10x less concentrated. If you dont have the dissolved samples anymore, then just do something similar as you did last time but then dilute it a lot more. This way it will be way better to visualize. When you have such large spots, one spot may be hiding other spots that have similar polarities.

All substances you posted seem to be mostly DMT with some NMT, which pretty much tells you that your supposed DMT/NMT separation, at least, isn't working like you thought it was. As for the metta, I can potentially see a spot on top of the plate that isn't in the other samples, might indeed indicate another substance there.

I'm a bit thrown off by the pure DMSO spot, because it doesnt seem to appear in all DMSO-dissolved samples. I'd repeat that one again too just to see.

With all of this you are spending many plates, you have to decide if its worth it to explore or if you dont want to waste any more material on this.... If you'd have to do just one more plate I'd do a plate with the new metta, just DMSO and any other DMT sample, all of them much more diluted than last time. That way we could potentially see if indeed there is an extra spot in the new metta, and if that spot is actually DMSO or something else. Also, I'd use ehrlich reagent in the spot that isn't DMT/NMT, just to see if it is a triptamine-type substance.

Lastly, would you be interested in doing a blind test with your substances? For example your NMT vs your DMT, or your new metta vs your old metta? Just ask someone to prepare it for you without telling you and then you try each sample a couple of times and then tell what you think it is..

In any case, thanks again for all the experimenting and sharing!
 
moyshekapoyre
#36 Posted : 8/13/2019 1:57:25 PM
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Ok good idea. I ran the plate (as you predicted, I'm low on plates now)--attached as the first photo. Strangely, on this plate (everything 10x diluted) I didn't get that third spot that I always get on top of the DMT spot for the "metta" stuff, but as you can see, for some reason it's like the entire top third of the plate turned purple under UV, so that could be hiding the spot. But I went back to an older plate from the last post and I put Ehrlich on the third spot on top of DMT spot, and yes it turned purple (see 2nd photo). Oh, and as you can see, there's no spot for just DMSO so that must have been like my finger or something the first time...

As for blind testing the stuff, that's what I've been doing. I had no idea my DMT contained NMT until I vaped it. I was like, "wth? this is not DMT... but it's from mimosa..." and of course TLC confirms that it has NMT in it. I literally thought I was crazy at first because I never heard of mimosa containing noticeable amounts of NMT. I actually think I'm crazy about 10 times per day at least (especially, any time I don't agree with something that Endlessness says). I've probably done about a dozen blind tests between DMT & DMT+NMT (what I tend to call just NMT if it feels nothing like DMT, tho I can imagine that not going over well in court). I'm always astounded at how a tiny bit of NMT can totally squash a DMT trip.

As for the separation of DMT & NMT, I discovered I can further separate them with cold alcohol (Everclear)--see last photo. Actually, even just throwing the stuff into room temperature DMSO separates it as long as you don't shake it up. I can't say it's 100% perfect separation (as you can see from this plate on first photo), but it's enough that what used to feel to me like NMT, feels now like DMT, and instead of being yellow, it's white, and the yellow stuff is now separated and way more yellow.

As for distinguishing the new metta from the old, I don't think I can distinguish those from the psychedelic effects, but the aroma is absolutely distinguishable. The old was way more pungently floral.

moyshekapoyre attached the following image(s):
10x diluted TLC plate.jpg (2,606kb) downloaded 172 time(s).
ehrlich spot on metta above dmt.jpg (954kb) downloaded 170 time(s).
everclear dmt nmt separation.jpg (132kb) downloaded 171 time(s).
 
moyshekapoyre
#37 Posted : 9/6/2019 9:35:11 AM
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So nobody is extracting this and doing this??

...

At this point I've got a pretty large supply of "Metta" and NMT... the combo works perfectly every time. This is insanely beautiful. How can I spread this to the world?
 
Loveall
#38 Posted : 9/6/2019 12:55:43 PM

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Ok, I'm wrapping up an acacia confusa extraction. Interested in the DMT/NMT separation with everclear.

How specifically did you separate DMT/NMT in everclear? What % alcohol? What temp for dissolving/crashing? I assume the DMT FB is at the bottom of the test tube? Are you centrifuging (picture looks like a centrifuge tube).

Thanks.
β€œ... (a) psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it.”
Excerpt from a McKenna talk transcript / audio.
 
Tony6Strings
#39 Posted : 9/6/2019 3:38:28 PM

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I am going to pull some full spectrum acrb extract because I've never tried the plant and would like to see if it differs from spice extracted from mimosa.
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
moyshekapoyre
#40 Posted : 9/6/2019 4:47:37 PM
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Loveall wrote:
Ok, I'm wrapping up an acacia confusa extraction. Interested in the DMT/NMT separation with everclear.

How specidially did you separate DMT/NMT in everclear? What % alcohol? What temp for dissolving/crashing? I assume the DMT FB is at the bottom of the test tube? Are you centrifuging (picture looks like a centrifuge tube).

Thanks.


Everclear is 75% alcohol I think. The more spice you put into the Everclear (less Everclear per g of spice) the more you'll need to warm it up in the microwave to get it to dissolve. Then after that you can put it in the fridge and it will separate. If you add more water sometimes that helps separate the DMT more (or it looks like it does).

I'm not centrifuging. I have a centrifuge and tubes for other reasons. The DMT is the white layer at the bottom yes.
 
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