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My exp was a bust, please help pick a new path Options
 
GLTASN
#1 Posted : 6/24/2019 5:55:36 PM

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after a week of planning,

7 am, slammed a cup of coffee or I would have a headache by 11am, drove 45 miles south of town to a cabin with my tripsitter.

930 am, drink my harmalas(100mg harmine and 10mg harmaline freebase)mixed with cokacola for my acid.

945 am, drink 40mgs of spice mixed with cokacola, ate 3 saltine crackers.

tripsitter does he trip with the GVG and has a wonderful break though exp on 30mgs.

1030 not feeling it yet we went for a walk, got a little sweaty from the heat more than the exercise.

1115 back from walk, not feeling a thing, smoked some weed, decide to drive and get some pizza a mile away. drove with no issues.

1215 was very confused as I couldn't muster a single spark or image when I closed my eyes so I us drove home.

I never even felt warm or fuzzy, never got sick, no hint of anything, never saw any cev's(tried to lol) and was driving home after 2.5hours after taking pharmahuasca.

where I may have derailed the exp. 1 right after drinking my spice I remembered I also drank a protein shake right before I left to pick up my friend about 730am, creature of habit and didn't realize my mistake till later. could this have ruined it? or.. 2 did I sweat it out on the walk? or.. 3 was letting the spice sit in coke for 10 minutes before drinking bad for it?

I really want to try again and wonder wich would be the best plan and would love to hear when fellow nexus friends think would help.

should I repeat with all the same amounts but with longer fasting?(I had no food but drank the shake 2 hours before, coffee 4 hours before)

should I increase the amounts by 1/2(150%)165mg harmalas 60mg spice?

should I try to double the amounts(200%)220mg harmalas 80mg spice?

Thanks for reading/posting!

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Metta-Morpheus
#2 Posted : 6/24/2019 7:26:09 PM

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I’ve tried pharma twice now, with my Third planned for this weekend. I don’t thinks it’s the fasting. I went 16 and 20 hours without food first times. First time I did 30 and second I did 40 msg of spice. 30 was on 3.6 g rue tea all at once with spice 15 minutes after, and the 40 was with about 1.5 g rue tea, then 1 1/2 hours later 3g rue tea. Spice again 15 minutes after second rue dose. Both times I felt the Harmala buzz pretty strongly, with a faint hint of trytamine feelings. Also no visuals without without music and focus, and was still very faint. This weekend I’m gonna role with the split rue dose, but I’m gonna shoot for 80-90 mg spice. I have it all set up for a nice safe space just in case that grabs me by the gonads to hard. So this is my insight with very little experience, I don’t think 30-40 range is high enough.
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Jagube
#3 Posted : 6/24/2019 8:20:51 PM

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You didn't take enough harmalas. Take twice that and it will make all the difference.
 
GLTASN
#4 Posted : 6/24/2019 9:03:57 PM

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I found a chart that showed how much harmals and how much DMT was in at the average dose of Ayahuasca and it determined that it was 107 mg of harmals and about 40 mg of DMT on average that's why I chose the 110 mg. The chart I saw was on the Gordo Tek pharmahuasca YouTube video it listed thh also but I didn't have any. It should arrive in the mail today, would 100mg of thh added to my original formula be considered more harmalas?
"It may be that my role in the universe is, to question my role in the universe."
 
Jagube
#5 Posted : 6/24/2019 9:35:08 PM

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GLTASN wrote:
I found a chart that showed how much harmals and how much DMT was in at the average dose of Ayahuasca and it determined that it was 107 mg of harmals and about 40 mg of DMT on average that's why I chose the 110 mg. The chart I saw was on the Gordo Tek pharmahuasca YouTube video it listed thh also but I didn't have any. It should arrive in the mail today, would 100mg of thh added to my original formula be considered more harmalas?

THH is a great addition, but it doesn't have a strong MAOI action, so I wouldn't really count it towards MAOI. If you take enough harmine and harmaline to activate the DMT though, the addition of THH will make your experience longer, stronger, clearer, more beautiful, love-filled and amazing and give you a long afterglow.

I don't know the MAOI potency of harmaline (it's supposed to be stronger than that of harmine), but since it's only a small fraction of your harmala mix, you can count it as harmine for the purpose of determining your dose. For me, 150 mg harmine doesn't activate oral DMT, the breaking point is somewhere around 180 mg, and 200 mg is a surefire way to activate it without worrying about purity; that assuming 10 - 15 minute spacing. When I drink harmalas and DMT (in tea form) together, I go for harmalas in the area of 250 mg to be sure.

If you didn't extract your harmalas yourself, you can't be sure what they really are though. The same goes for THH; it may well be harmine or harmaline.
 
GLTASN
#6 Posted : 6/25/2019 12:29:32 AM

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Ive have full spectrum(45/55) harmalas hcl, full spectrum(45/55) freebase, pure harmine freebase and thh sold as 95% pure. Ive been gathering stuff for a while trying to make it as close to real auhuyasca according to this chart of ingredients found in a sampling of jungle made brew. pic from the gordotek vid

I chose to use 110mg as it was the total was the averages of harmalas found per serving. I had to go with all harmine because my thh wasn't here yet. I have test run 200mg harmine alone before and barely felt anything so not afraid to try more.

so does 200harmine 100thh and 10harmaline with 40mg pure white fb seem good?
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VibeSurfer
#7 Posted : 6/25/2019 3:47:56 AM

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I've heard a lot from people in the experimentation community that when doing pharmahuasca you are going to need higher doses than what is estimated to be in ayahuasca.

The DMT dosage wasn't a relevant factor since you didn't have enough harmalas. I think 40mg is a fine place to start. If you have a trip sitter present it wouldn't be a bad idea to weigh out additional 20mg doses to set aside in case you decide you are comfortable with upping the DMT after you have let it hit. I would recommend waiting until 1-2 hours after you start to feel the DMT effects before doing more.

I would recommend having a higher dose of both harmine and harmaline. Maybe try 120mg of Harmine with 40-50 mg of harmaline, or just do the 200 and the 10 like you mentioned. THH is nice to have in the mix no matter what, so definitely use it if you have it.


Also I really wouldn't recommend drinking caffeine same day.
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Achilles
#8 Posted : 6/25/2019 10:12:25 AM

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Just simmer 3-4 grams of rue seeds 3 boils 30 mins each. Combine liquid and simmer down to like a shot. Worked to good for me tbh.
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Jagube
#9 Posted : 6/25/2019 10:41:01 AM

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GLTASN wrote:
so does 200harmine 100thh and 10harmaline with 40mg pure white fb seem good?

Yes, and I also second VibeSurfer.

As for the doses analyzed by Callaway, I think those are for Santo Daime. In Santo Daime they typically drink 3 servings, spaced by 2 hours, so that's one factor to take into account. Another is that the extraction for the analysis may not have been that efficient, so the numbers shown may be smaller than they were in reality.

I reckon his analysis of indigenous brews showed much more harmalas (and a higher harmala-to-DMT ratio). Also the analysis is per specific volume of brew, which may or may not have been the exact single dose.
 
GLTASN
#10 Posted : 6/28/2019 1:20:42 AM

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Well I another failed attempt at pharmahuasca today. best to keep a record for others that follow and myself.

took 10mg harmaline hcl, 90mg tetrahydroharmine-THH hcl, 125mg harmine freebase, 40mg pure white spice fb. mixed the hamalas together, made 2 equal piles, mixed with juice in shot glasses, spice in 2nd glass. drank one, waited 15 mins downed the second shot glass with the dmt. had a few burps, heard thats a good sign. made ginger root tea, didn't need any

I know I know I should have used more harmine but ive been reading so many threads/posts from others that used much less and have wonderful experiences.

I used fresh grpaefriut juice and the fb dissolved so much better than fizzing cocacola, the fb actually dissolved instead of clumping into tiny white balls floating in fizz.

this time I felt something in my body(barely) but once again, absolutely ZERO cev's, I tried so hard and even bought an eyemask. I sat and put the mask on after 20 mins from taking the second shot glass with the dmt in it. I tried listening to the gordo-tek soundtrack and after an hour, I just gave up.

Im pretty sure the harmalas are good even though I did not extract them. I deff felt a slightly queasiness for a few hours after drinking them on this attempt. Im not afraid to purge I just don't want to die choking on it as Im by myself.

might try again this sunday but it really bums me out spending days prepping, building up the nerve to drink the potion, only to have nothing happen.

Thanks for reading, feel free to post any thoughts. Im here to learn!

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Metta-Morpheus
#11 Posted : 6/28/2019 3:05:27 PM

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I am trying a run tonight. My Harmala extraction failed, so I’m going with rue tea. I’m gonna take 4g rue tea and 10-15 minutes later take 80mg spice. My wife and friend are partaking as well, but they are going for 60mg spice. As I said above my first 2 times were with 30 and 40 msg, with similar experience to what you’ve posted. I also noticed the difference in using oj to dissolve compared to cola making it clumpy. Interesting. I feel confident my rue dose is high enough, but I’ve been falling short with spice level. I will post back tomorrow with tale of the 80 mg.
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Magic is here for us all to feel. Naming it isn’t what makes it real.
Running around for us all to know, noticing isn’t what makes so...
 
GLTASN
#12 Posted : 6/28/2019 8:15:40 PM

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Best of luck! I have Syrian rue seeds but want to try and nail this down eventually with just extracted harmalas.

wondering wich would be the next way to try? should I try to ramp it up another step or shoot past the next step to the one after?:

1, 140mg thh, 160mg harmine, 40mg spice or...

2, 100mg thh, 200mg harmine, 40mg spice


skipping the harmaline for now as its found in such low concentrations. I can worry/add it later.
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chocobeastie
#13 Posted : 7/11/2019 9:41:11 PM

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I'm probably going to stop posting this advice, as all my posts on this subject seem to go unoticed by people locked in theory land who somehow think they know better.

I've given DMT orally to many thousands of people, and can tell you that only pure as the driven snow Yogi's, small asian chicks and some kind of ultra sensitive geeks will get something out of 40mg.

80mg is where things start to get interesting for most, i.e. visuals. 150mg I would consider a standard strong dose. 200mg is very strong and 300mg is too much for some, but perfect for others. Some other people need 500mg.

Work your way up, but don't even expect 60mg to do that much. You don't need to layon the harmalas, that will just increase bodyload, and once the MAOI's are inhibited, they are inhibited, the DMT dosage works about the same no matter how much harmalas you have taken.
 
chocobeastie
#14 Posted : 7/11/2019 9:43:27 PM

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These charts that you are basing your data on, are likely for amounts of DMT taken in Brazilian churches where they don't even have visuals during their experiences or ayahuasca as it was drunk back in the old days, where you would rarely have a brew that would give you visuals anyway.
 
Tony6Strings
#15 Posted : 7/12/2019 12:47:17 PM

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You could eat the amounts of harmalas talked about in post #12, wait half an hour and then vaporize your 40 mg spice for a strong experience.
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GLTASN
#16 Posted : 7/12/2019 5:04:16 PM

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Thanks for the posts guys but for right now I am sticking to the original plan of slowly ramping up my harmalas until I feel something. so my next dose will be 170 harmine 140 thh and 40 mg DMT.

I am really looking forward to spending a few hours in a DMT induced state.
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chocobeastie
#17 Posted : 7/29/2019 7:19:47 PM

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>I am really looking forward to spending a few hours in a DMT induced state.

Looking forward to reading your report where you say "nothing happened", and threatening to throw in the towel because, "godamnit, the science doesn't lie!" Which is of course not the point, the point is ayahuasca brews in these churches and brews from indigenous people do not typically give people any visions.

40mg is a good place to start if you are an extremely conservative person and have no expectation of any noticeable effect at all. Honestly, 60mg is where I would recommend ultra conservative people to start if they have no expectation of anything happening at all. Most hard headed westerners will need 100mg to give them what they are looking for, many will need 150, only very few will be happy with 75mg.

I recently spoke to an "ultra sensitive geek" who started at 75mg, which was far too strong for him and "he no longer knew who he was". Now he takes 50mg.
 
dreamer042
#18 Posted : 7/30/2019 1:58:44 AM

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chocobeastie wrote:
I'm probably going to stop posting this advice, as all my posts on this subject seem to go unoticed by people locked in theory land who somehow think they know better.

I've given DMT orally to many thousands of people, and can tell you that only pure as the driven snow Yogi's, small asian chicks and some kind of ultra sensitive geeks will get something out of 40mg.

80mg is where things start to get interesting for most, i.e. visuals. 150mg I would consider a standard strong dose. 200mg is very strong and 300mg is too much for some, but perfect for others. Some other people need 500mg.

Work your way up, but don't even expect 60mg to do that much. You don't need to layon the harmalas, that will just increase bodyload, and once the MAOI's are inhibited, they are inhibited, the DMT dosage works about the same no matter how much harmalas you have taken.

My experience is quite the opposite of this. When I hit a sufficient dose of harmalas to cause to nausea, dizziness, ataxia, and possibly even vertigo, the "I have to lay down" dose, then even the tiniest taste of a tryptamine will rocket me deep into the hyperrealms, 20-40 mg should be plenty sufficient when full pancaked on harmalas.

Certainly metabolisms differ, and I am notoriously a softhead for both harmalas and tryptamines, but I generally think when people claim they need 100+ mg of DMT to get there it's because they severely undershot the harmalas. With full bioavailability, the oral dose should par the smoked or injected dose, the dose shouldn't change, only the speed of the delivery into the bloodstream.

I always always always advise increasing harmala dose before increasing tryptamine dose.
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FranLover
#19 Posted : 7/30/2019 7:34:18 AM

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Hi! I also think you need more harmalas. I used to take 300mg of hcl hamarlas in a shot of juice to go into harmala mode. But as you mentioned, sometimes 200mg didnt work for you, sometimes, 200mg didnt for me either, but 300mg most of the times did. Also I drink it in hcl because I read that thats the healthier way to consume because it absorbs faster, rather than freebase.

That was for psilohuasca. In the one and only aya trip Ive had I drank 4 cups of Caapi (total of around 70g caapi). I knew I was going further than necessary because I was high on harmalas by the second cup and unable to keep my eyes open (they droop like the eyes of the buddah, so that one sees from under the eyelids.) I then drank a cup of 4g of mimosa. I drank a quarter of it and could not continue because I was gonna vomit if I did. So the dose was anywhere from 0 to 1.5g mimosa hostilis, maybe an underdose. But it totally worked, was beautiful, and it was sort of like a smoked dmt breakthrough but much nicer on the body and more body high (out of body experience even.)

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Jees
#20 Posted : 7/30/2019 11:54:59 AM

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Personally I consider 200mg harmalas (HCl) fair enough to activate and usually I go for 150.
I try to limit harmaline to 100mg max, so the 200 unseparated rue extract fits this.

Oral sessions, I find them unpredictable in the outcome. The assimilation speed of the spice is so important in the depth outcome. If it's smeared out over time because your digestion track says so, then even 100mg spice is cool as a walk in the park. But oh my god when that same amount get assimilated faster, then it's no joke any more, at certain moments there comes a bit of regret LOL Big grin

I've had both soft and surprisingly deep sessions on a variety of doses with oral ROA, this holds me back on pinning down any recommendation further than 'start low and rise', and yes maybe first rise harmalas to 200 before upping spice.

The other day I found myself in the situation of a heavily thc contaminated body and found it interesting to try on top of that 150mg FB unseparated rue harmalas + 90 mg FB spice. I nearly felt nothing more than a nice glow. It was cute. So I believe some stuff already present in your body can seriously affect outcome. Now I call thc 'the spice killer' Laughing bc had this confirmed several times, YMMV. Maybe its better to change sequence and start with the spice.
 
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