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My personal experiences trying to germinate and grow Salvia Recognita/Glutinosa Options
 
fathomlessness
#1 Posted : 5/21/2019 8:22:52 AM

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After many unsuccessful attempts at germinating Salvia Recognita seeds I experimented a little and found a few things that worked for me finally. I might mention I have a background in plant science, not that is that relevant here because there could be plenty of things i am falsely attributing to be causes! Hoping this helps some of you or is a topic for discussion Smile

First of all, using GA3 was a waste... GA3 has to be diluted in alcohol and dispersed in water as it wont dissolve in water. The alcohol killed my seeds every time and using too little IPA alcohol never dissolved enough GA3. However another user reported success. dissolved only in water had no more success than diluted in alcohol.

Second, I read on the packet that these seeds like sunlight on them for sprouting so i just placed them on the surface of the soil and kept the soil moist. Within 2 weeks there was some sprouting. I covered some seeds after the first week and that also seemed to help.

Third, I found scarifying only the black layer of these seeds helped germinating a lot.

Fourth, I found they didn't germinate in higher temperatures above 25c (thats just my findings, doesnt mean they wont). I assume it might be to the lower humidity in higher temperature days that allows for less water in germination?

Fifth, I decided to put them under lights 24hours to speed up germinated and shelter from cold. This proved the bulk of my success.

Sixth, They are VERY fragile, seedlings didn't like to be transplanted once they were beyond a cm or two height. Even the more well grown plants snap so incredibly easily, like most other sage species (very bushy).

Seventh, Whenever i tried germinating in paper towels they would always rot and the towel would go mouldy. I tried incubating them to increase germination time but it actually did the opposite. I had the highest success germinating them in 10-25c with 80-90% humidity under cfl lights inside.

Eighth, Growth rate is quite slow. Slower than most marijuana plants i have grown. This is obviously not good news for us because we require BULK leaves to do an extraction. However i could be wrong as they their growth rate may take off in the full light of summer.

Nineth, if you decide to grow inside, get a small fan. This is because o2 needs to be moved from the boundary layer in order for photosynthesis to take place. The more these chemical reactions can take place from input of co2 the faster growth will be.

Tenth, Glutinosas seeds were too small to be scarified but had a similar success rate to recognita without scarification. A lot of them seemed to produce leaves but hardly any roots at all in the beginning. Also very fragile.

Elleventh, All seedlings seem to like lots of water in beginning. Seedlings that didn't get watered were prone to shrivelling in the first stage of cotyledon production.
 

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downwardsfromzero
#2 Posted : 5/21/2019 3:10:27 PM

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Thanks for this, I have some glutinosa seeds that could do with germinating so with any luck your tips will help to maximise their germination rate.

Do you think adding a proprietary 'root enhancer' - composed mostly of sodium silicate and sodium phosphate - to the seed compost might help with the seedlings' root development?
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality."
― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
 
RoundAbout
#3 Posted : 5/22/2019 9:50:17 PM

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Thanks for your knowledge. Approximate germination rates might be helpful to mention... I'm generally around 1/4. I'll try scarification next time.

 
fathomlessness
#4 Posted : 5/29/2019 2:37:01 AM

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RoundAbout wrote:
Thanks for your knowledge. Approximate germination rates might be helpful to mention... I'm generally around 1/4. I'll try scarification next time.


I'd say about 1/3 to 1/2, although I am still getting a few popping up weeks later so it may be closer to 3/4.
 
fathomlessness
#5 Posted : 5/29/2019 2:58:35 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
Thanks for this, I have some glutinosa seeds that could do with germinating so with any luck your tips will help to maximise their germination rate.

Do you think adding a proprietary 'root enhancer' - composed mostly of sodium silicate and sodium phosphate - to the seed compost might help with the seedlings' root development?


That is a superb idea to try as it is known to improve stem strength and root mass. I know in thc horticulture it is very popular mainly because plants grown hydroponically have no direct source of silica unless it is added as a supplement to the nutrient regimen. Plants grown in soil are more likely to uptake trace amounts of silica that may be present in the soil. With Recognita coming from the middle eastern regions, I'm assuming it would have an affinity for sandy soils. For this reason i really should have had a control with purely sand soil.

Its habitat is in turkey usually in light shade at the base of cliffs



I was also thinking about dissolving some clay in water and watering with that just to aid surface area of nutrient adsorption. A loamy soil is ideally what i want, which is halfway between clay and sand. A loamy soil with some additional silica perhaps, although ill keep a check on the ph because Silica is alkaline in nature. Smile
 
Ulim
#6 Posted : 5/29/2019 9:58:02 PM

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I have had 0 trouble growing both. They are absoltely going ham for me. I just soak the seeds and put em straight into the soil under humdity dome.

Big plant in raised bed = glutinosa (split into 2 big plants on its own)
Pot plant = recognita
Hydroponics seedling = the same recognita as in the pot 3 months earlier

I also have succesfully grown both in hydroponics (both plants were hydroponic before transplant to soil)

The glutinosa already survived a winter here (usda zone 7a)


Your seeds are duds man. I get germination rates of 90%. Just like that. Pushed into the soil (just the tippy top of the seed exposed)

Glutinosa grows like a bad herb. I cant keep up with it. I had 3 small potted plants and now i have 4 bushes of them.

For soil i germinated them in jiffy coco coir pellets. And for hydro i just planted them into rockwool directly. I soaked the seeds water and then let them sit in very dilute h2o2 for just a few mins (less than 1%!!!). Dont let the seeds sit in the h2o2 or they will get killed.

I did have seedlings die on me but that was mostly because i dropped the humidity to fast. Its best to just slowly drop the humidity in the dome until they are hardened off to be planted into pots.


I got the seeds here https://www.jelitto.com/ they have worldwide shipping.

Im well on my way to a giant bush of glutinosa. And the recognita i got is going strong. I had some seedlings die on me sadly (they got destroyed by rain) but the big plant i got is enough since it seems like its gonna split much like the other salvias do.

The main thing i found is you need to give them MASSIVE amounts of space to really thrive. The recognita is going into the ground outside once the weather is less rainy.
Ulim attached the following image(s):
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iozhbuggzuoizguoiuhbiuh.jpg (3,160kb) downloaded 68 time(s).
salviarecccog.jpg (794kb) downloaded 68 time(s).
 
Ulim
#7 Posted : 5/29/2019 10:22:10 PM

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And here are two pics of the same plant in spring and some weeks later.
Glutinosa.
You can already see the buds in the first pic. Winter was cold as always. (-15c was the lowest iirc)
Ulim attached the following image(s):
glutinosa (2).jpg (2,002kb) downloaded 55 time(s).
effefefefe.jpg (2,080kb) downloaded 55 time(s).
 
RoundAbout
#8 Posted : 5/30/2019 4:15:42 AM

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Ulim wrote:
I got the seeds here https://www.jelitto.com/ they have worldwide shipping.


For the record: I did not get my seeds from Jelitto. I used Special Plants. YMMV
 
downwardsfromzero
#9 Posted : 5/31/2019 10:02:01 PM

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Relevant post here: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...amp;m=987763#post987763

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Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality."
― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
 
fathomlessness
#10 Posted : 6/1/2019 2:36:40 AM

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Ulim wrote:

Your seeds are duds man. I get germination rates of 90%. Just like that. Pushed into the soil (just the tippy top of the seed exposed)


When you get enough leaf please be sure to write an experience report as we are definitely in need.

I also bought from jellito so i think habitat may play a large factor in this. How long did your seeds take to sprout?

I bought some clay and some IBA (Indole-3-butyric acid) rooting hormone, im going to play around with these a post the effects (vs a control) within a few months.
 
Ulim
#11 Posted : 6/7/2019 1:56:22 PM

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I feel like you are simply toying around to much and arent patient enough. The seeds did take some time but i never fully kept track. Im thinking multiple weeks probably.

I just threw them into the soil in a closed plastic box and put them under my terrarium lights (G23 11W warmwhite). Or in case of the hydro plant just pushed the seed into a rockwool cube and put into a jar with some water. Then under the same lights.

The seeds that never germinated are usually the ones that go moldy. I never did much to treat the seeds but give em a soak till they swell up. And a wash with H2O2.

Im thinking all the hormones do more damage than good. I dont see no reason to use them in the first place. Seeds are fragile and just thumping them with hormones is sure to bring them out of whack.

Nearly all salvia species i grew from seeds dont need nothing but soil and water to grow.
And thats a long list already because i expanded from those two to other salvia species of ethnobotanical interest.

Im curently still habituating the recognita to soil and it will go in the garden and give me fat yields im sure.
 
 
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