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Difference between vaping toad venom and pure 5-MeO-DMT Options
 
VibeSurfer
#1 Posted : 4/13/2019 3:56:38 AM

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Hi all,

I've had 5-MeO-DMT on my experimentation radar for quite some time now. I believe I will end up trying it sometime in the near or distant future. What I'm wondering is if there is a difference in experience between vaping pure 5-MeO-DMT and vaping toad venom that contains 5-MeO-DMT? I have access to the venom, and I am reasonably sure that I can extract the 5-MeO just fine, but I'm wondering if I should even bother doing that or just vape it as is? Please let me know your thoughts.

Thank you
“A game for those who seek to find a way to leave their world behind. You roll the dice to move your token, doubles gets another turn. The first player to reach the end wins. Adventurers beware: Do not begin unless you intend to finish. The exciting consequences of the game will vanish only when a player has reached Jumanji and called out its name.”
 

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AcaciaConfusedYah
#2 Posted : 4/13/2019 12:15:04 PM

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That's between you and tha toad. Ask them what they think.

I have some friends that are toads. I said that they could come chill here as long as they do me one favor - when it's time, offer voluntarily. I'm in no rush. They will offer voluntarily, i've seen it happen. I was going to collect it, but that particular toad was very fixated on me. I was going to just let it continue to secrete and then collect it once it had finished. I decided to give them some food (they were waiting for dinner) and let things happen as they do. While eating, the secretion continued. So, I decided to change their water bowl while they were distracted. That toad... that one is particularly aware of me. So, when i reached in to change the water dish, it thought that I had more food in my hand. It followed my hand towards the water dish and then jumped in! Doh!

The secretion was washed away. Lol. Oh well.

For what it's worth - venom must be injected into the bloodstream to be harmful. Venom can be eaten and no ill result - it can even aid in digestion. Poison, on the other hand, can be toxic even when eaten. Not important, in the grand scheme - but might be useful to know the difference. There's no such thing as a poisonous snake or a venomous toad. Wink

Take care!
ACY
Have a great day!
 
tatt
#3 Posted : 4/13/2019 2:02:57 PM
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VibeSurfer wrote:

What I'm wondering is if there is a difference in experience between vaping pure 5-MeO-DMT and vaping toad venom that contains 5-MeO-DMT? I have access to the venom


I'm pretty sure a few years back when endlessness and some others had met Octavio Retig at one of the conferences they were able to grab a sample of his toad venom and have it analyzed and found it to be primarily 5-MeO.

Also remember this post from 2018 with Banco mentioning this:

Bancopuma wrote:
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Having experienced both Bufo extract and synthetic pure 5-MeO, I can say with firm conviction that they both get you to the same place...a few samples of Bufo extract have been analysed by Nexus peeps and I recall only 5-MeO as the sole tryptamine detected.

 
Tony6Strings
#4 Posted : 4/13/2019 4:15:15 PM

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Another toad/5meo question. Regarding roa, in every video I've seen, practitioners are using a glass lollipop style pipe with a torch lighter, otherwise known as an oilburner or a meth pipe. Does toad smoke differently than regular dmt? What about using a machine or a vapor genie? Why does the meth pipe still seem to be the roa of choice for toad medicine?
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
VibeSurfer
#5 Posted : 4/15/2019 5:04:31 AM

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Thank you everyone for your input. I might separate it out just for fun.

Tony6Strings wrote:
Another toad/5meo question. Regarding roa, in every video I've seen, practitioners are using a glass lollipop style pipe with a torch lighter, otherwise known as an oilburner or a meth pipe. Does toad smoke differently than regular dmt? What about using a machine or a vapor genie? Why does the meth pipe still seem to be the roa of choice for toad medicine?


So the machine and vapor genie became popular ROAs for NN-DMT because using the oil burner is a bit trickier to get just right and it is way easier to accidentally burn it. For example, if you want to vape 30-40 mg of NN-DMT in an oil burner you're gonna have to melt it slowly, roll it back and forth, inhale slowly, make sure to hold hits for a long time, not burn it, etc. With 5-MeO-DMT, you only have a small amount to vaporize - let's say, 2-5mg. Also, it is absorbed into your bloodstream through your lungs waaaaay faster (so I have heard.) What I'm saying is, it seems way easier to not mess up vaping 5-MeO-DMT in an oil burner than NN-DMT.
“A game for those who seek to find a way to leave their world behind. You roll the dice to move your token, doubles gets another turn. The first player to reach the end wins. Adventurers beware: Do not begin unless you intend to finish. The exciting consequences of the game will vanish only when a player has reached Jumanji and called out its name.”
 
rOm
#6 Posted : 4/15/2019 9:30:13 AM

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If you have access to the toad secretion 5 MeO DMT, you don't need to bother extracting and isolting 5 MeO DMT if you plan to vaporize it. I do it in an oil burner with a torch lighter. And I believe the other substance ( aside from the 5 meo dmt ) may evenbe beneficial to spome extent, or prolong a nice afterglow that can last couple of weeks. I haven't felt this way with 5 meo dmt synthetic but I did have good results with combo.
I use both and I like the 5 meo dmt synthetic cause you can also mesure the dose more accurately which can be more confortable to start with.

The 5 meo dmt syntehtic can used rectally, sublingually, nasally, beside form being vaped which can be a plus. The onset is slower and more confortable using the permeable mucous membrane of your mouth or your rectum.

I did vape 5 meo and n,n DMT together in GVG too, as I also mange to vape Salvia divinorum extract in this pipe. But I always use an oil burner for toad secretion.

Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
physics envy
#7 Posted : 4/15/2019 7:34:52 PM

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I like the synthetic better because I only have to smoke 15mg instead of 100mg of toad. But without a jewelers scale, I find measuring the synthetic a PITA.

The toad burns very nicely in a basic oil burner pipe...it's not too harsh and isn't too difficult to burn at least most of it rather easily.

For the synthetic, I found the sandwich method in a bong with just a tiny bit of leafy substrate to work very well - no harshness and still much less to inhale than 100mg of toad.

Some say they do 2-3 hits from an oil burner with the toad...a small inhale initially (and blow out the smoke quickly), followed by a second similar one, then a third big hit that they hold. I haven't tried this myself, however.

I hadn't heard of anyone extracting the 5meo from the venom. I'd be interested in a tek for that if it works.
Salvia quid enthusiast
 
Ferrum
#8 Posted : 9/17/2019 8:39:49 PM

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Ii was curious too if bufotenine could be extracted from the poison . There are cardio toxins present but I cannot find a article for what they are so its hard to check solubility . I'll keep looking , old post I know but it's on topic and might as well expand on it some .

I like the reports of oral bufotenine but I can't remember if 5-meO is degraded during enzymatic processes . I believe it is .

I've tried the poison before . It's powerful . So i feel they are both good , I think the difference is subjective .
 
downwardsfromzero
#9 Posted : 9/17/2019 9:29:42 PM

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Ferrum wrote:
There are cardio toxins present but I cannot find a article for what they are

Toad cardiotoxins are steroidal substances akin to the cardiac glycosides found in a wide variety of plants such as foxglove and lily of the valley. Their relatively high molecular weight makes them of little concern when vaporised, but they are definitely toxic via the oral route and by injection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bufotoxin
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― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
endlessness
#10 Posted : 9/17/2019 9:31:13 PM

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There was another related thread recently:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...mp;m=1009513#post1009513
 
Ferrum
#11 Posted : 9/17/2019 10:14:30 PM

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Thank you both for the relative information . Seems bufotenine will be better realized somewhere else . I will keep searching for the other compounds however , it would be useful if the poison could be still cleaned up if not for just the fun challenge alone . I'm thinking some chromatography maybe but I need to find some better documentation first . Endless when you did your analysis did you get any other information other than the 5-meo ?
 
Eaglepath
#12 Posted : 5/21/2020 8:53:41 AM

I rather root my values in my own hallucinations than in society´s neurotic illusions..


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Hello hello.. I would appreciate if more people with experience of both synthetic and and the Toad's medicine could share their insights of difference.. if any..

Personally I have worked a lot with Bufo but never tried the synthetic.. As I understand the Toad medicine contains adrenaline and that shold influence some difference compared to the synthetic for example..
"Too cute to live, too cozy to die" - Eaglepath
 
VibeSurfer
#13 Posted : 5/25/2020 4:37:55 AM

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Can adrenaline be smoked? Is it really in the venom? I've smoked the venom about 7 times now and it's been amazing each time. Maybe I'll have to give the synthetic a go to see if it hits different.
“A game for those who seek to find a way to leave their world behind. You roll the dice to move your token, doubles gets another turn. The first player to reach the end wins. Adventurers beware: Do not begin unless you intend to finish. The exciting consequences of the game will vanish only when a player has reached Jumanji and called out its name.”
 
Eaglepath
#14 Posted : 5/25/2020 8:29:02 AM

I rather root my values in my own hallucinations than in society´s neurotic illusions..


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Quote:
Moreover, the toad secretion also contains several cardioactive agents like bufagins, various catecholamines such as epinephrine and norepinephrine


https://link.springer.co...1007/s00213-019-05236-w

I guess it will effect the body when inhaled yes..
"Too cute to live, too cozy to die" - Eaglepath
 
abrelosojos
#15 Posted : 5/25/2020 6:23:52 PM
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There is a really good video from Hamilton Morris at the World Bufo Alvarius congress in México City.

Where he makes clear his stance on this topic, With strong arguments to explain how the low % of other psychoactive substances present in the toad secretion, makes all the argument of entourage effects null.

Set & Setting is what really makes it different. And with bufo we always have that dosage issues. Concentrations of 5-Meo-DMT vary a lot per sample, So when aiming for threesholds in dosage it is almost impossible.

Miss the smell of burnt flowers from Bufo, maybe it is calling again.


 
 
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