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Diatomascus earth solvent filter? Options
 
rewindtothestart
#1 Posted : 1/12/2019 3:31:27 AM

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I read a while back that DE can be used to filter solvents with good results. I couldn't find any specific details regarding the amount to use, etc. I gave it a shot on my last pull, and it does seem to lighten the color of the solvent. I'm looking for feedback from anyone who has experience with this stuff. How much did you use? Any tricks, or suggestions on usage?
 

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Johnsonptd
#2 Posted : 1/12/2019 5:14:54 AM

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Interesting. I have 50 lbs of the stuff I used to end both a bed bug and flea infestation. What some sites say is that diatomaceous earth is very polar and that’s why it’s useful for detoxing the body? It seems to work for parasites but other than that I’m not sure, didn’t feel good taking it for more than a couple weeks.

The limonene is quite yellow, and an overnight freeze does well to clear it up. I would be worried that the DE may absorb any trace amounts of dmt in the solvent, as well as eating a bit of the solvent itself. I’m only familiar with limonene, which, after a pull, takes me a few hot water shots to clear it up to the naked eye. What solvent do you use and where did you read that from?
 
KloudQ7
#3 Posted : 1/12/2019 6:30:25 AM

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I know some people like to use it in vacuum filters by sandwiching it between some filter discs. I definitely plan on trying it at some point.
 
rewindtothestart
#4 Posted : 1/12/2019 7:16:47 AM

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Johnsonptd - I'm going to have to try limonene one day. It sounds like a great solvent, and I bet the smell is much more pleasant to work with! I've always worked with xylene, naphtha, and and heptane. I think I first read about it on the thread regarding the reuse of solvents. I've seen it pop up periodically on here, but not too often. Honestly, I don't know if filtering actually helps the end result with my methods, but I thought I'd give it a try.

I didn't know DE can work on bed bugs. Did you combine DE with other methods to kill them?

Kloudq7 - thanks for the tip on sandwiching between two filter disks! I didn't read that. Seems like a good way to make the job a bit less messy.

I just mixed xylene with copious amounts of DE in a jar (400ml xylene, about 300ml finely powdered DE). I added some water hoping that the DE would settle into it, but it does seem to evenly dispersed in the xylene, and the water. It clumps good enough that it doesn't clog too bad with vacuum filtration. In retrospect, I think this was way too much DE, and I'm sure less than 100ml would do.

When I was reading about DE, I read that calcined DE is preferred for filtration. This is heat treated DE, but too hot to DIY. I'm curious if the calcined DE is much better than regular run of the mill DE. I'm also curious if it would settle out over time into the water. If it had, I was going to freeze the solution and try to pour off the xylene.
 
rewindtothestart
#5 Posted : 1/12/2019 7:17:28 AM

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Johnsonptd - I'm going to have to try limonene one day. It sounds like a great solvent, and I bet the smell is much more pleasant to work with! I've always worked with xylene, naphtha, and and heptane. I think I first read about it on the thread regarding the reuse of solvents. I've seen it pop up periodically on here, but not too often. Honestly, I don't know if filtering actually helps the end result with my methods, but I thought I'd give it a try.

I didn't know DE can work on bed bugs. Did you combine DE with other methods to kill them?

Kloudq7 - thanks for the tip on sandwiching between two filter disks! I didn't read that. Seems like a good way to make the job a bit less messy.

I just mixed xylene with copious amounts of DE in a jar (400ml xylene, about 300ml finely powdered DE). I added some water hoping that the DE would settle into it, but it does seem to evenly dispersed in the xylene, and the water. It clumps good enough that it doesn't clog too bad with vacuum filtration. In retrospect, I think this was way too much DE, and I'm sure less than 100ml would do.

When I was reading about DE, I read that calcined DE is preferred for filtration. This is heat treated DE, but too hot to DIY. I'm curious if the calcined DE is much better than regular run of the mill DE. I'm also curious if it would settle out over time into the water. If it had, I was going to freeze the solution and try to pour off the xylene.
 
leratiomyces
#6 Posted : 1/12/2019 7:38:45 AM
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rewindtothestart wrote:
I read a while back that DE can be used to filter solvents with good results. I couldn't find any specific details regarding the amount to use, etc. I gave it a shot on my last pull, and it does seem to lighten the color of the solvent. I'm looking for feedback from anyone who has experience with this stuff. How much did you use? Any tricks, or suggestions on usage?


I used to regularly use Celite (de) to fix an emulsion.
Place filter paper in Buchner. Form a 3-4 cm pad of celite on top of the paper. Apply vacuum and slowly pour emulsion on the celite. Usually worked well. Can't say I've used de for any other purpose.
 
Mockingbird
#7 Posted : 1/12/2019 10:25:22 AM
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Pool DE works a treat even without a vacuum source. A 3-4 cm layer of DE on top of a #4 melitta cone style coffee filter works very well for filtering toluene. The top of the DE can be scraped if things start to slow down. Ceramic filter holders are cheap enough that several can be run in parallel.

I find this step essential before doing a dilute sulfuric acid titrated precipitation in a sep funnel. The fine filtration removes a lot of particles that otherwise contribute to an emulsion that complicates things greatly.

To prepare the filter beds I mix a few spoonfuls of DE in a mason jar with fresh toluene, sti, and pour into the filter paper. The toluene can be recovered and used to prepare the next filter bed easily.
 
Ulim
#8 Posted : 1/12/2019 2:13:39 PM

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DE is used commonly as a filter aid. Its mostly silic acids and works well to filter because of the form of the crystals. (its literally hollow algae shells)

They work well for solvents and acids but do beware that any DE will dissolve if you treat it with strong base (NaOH/LYE or KOH)

Calcined DE is more resitant to base (since the silic acid gets decomposed to SiO2 by the heat)

Usually DE is sold as Celite when used for filtering and in a chemistry setting. Its mostly used to help with filtration that would end up clogging the filter or passing through.

But do beware that DE is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE to breathe in. The dust is sharp and light and will easily travel into your lungs so you need a high grade dust mask or work outside with it. Else you are at risk for silicosis (the same reason why you need to wear masks when you grind or cut or sandblast)
This is also the main reason not to use it for inside plants. Since most plants are near windows and the air movement will literally blow the DE all around the room.
 
Johnsonptd
#9 Posted : 1/12/2019 6:11:44 PM

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Roommate and another guy came in last night and said, “whatever you’re making smells wonderful” (Lol) I said I’m sorry to say the soap I’m making can’t be eaten. Cats aren’t bothered by it either so plusplus.

I just sprinkle straight food grade DE on the floor, in the rug, around the bed, wherever I think they pass to get to a sleeping body. Breathing it in isn’t that great but unless you’re working in mines harvesting it for years you don’t have much to worry about as long as you are using food grade DE.

You can use it for plants if you bury it, and animals are safe from breathing it in if it’s placed in less traveled areas. There’s so much conflicting information out there about it so I may be wrong about the actual safety of DE, in my experience I didn’t have any trouble using and being around it, and even taking internally for a while.
 
Ulim
#10 Posted : 1/12/2019 8:19:44 PM

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Johnsonptd wrote:

I just sprinkle straight food grade DE on the floor, in the rug, around the bed, wherever I think they pass to get to a sleeping body. Breathing it in isn’t that great but unless you’re working in mines harvesting it for years you don’t have much to worry about as long as you are using food grade DE.

You can use it for plants if you bury it, and animals are safe from breathing it in if it’s placed in less traveled areas. There’s so much conflicting information out there about it so I may be wrong about the actual safety of DE, in my experience I didn’t have any trouble using and being around it, and even taking internally for a while.

It doesnt matter if its food grade or not. It will still damage your lungs.
The main problem is with dust like this is because its inert your lungs can never clear it so it just acumulates more and more clogging more and more aveolae. Means any exposure no matter how small will damage your lungs permanently
Also the silicosis takes years to develop so you might be doing more damage than you notice.

I definetly do not recommend spreading heaps of DE around your home. Thats worse than working in a mine.
There is no conficting information about silicosis.
Read up here for more info https://www.who.int/occu...newsletter/gohnet12e.pdf
 
Johnsonptd
#11 Posted : 1/12/2019 11:40:33 PM

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Thank you for sharing that. I wasn’t aware that it’s still a widespread problem, and I wonder what kind of dusts and particles I’ve accumulated over the years. Totally agree it’s unsafe to breathe it in. Stubborn me not believing in incurable conditions did some digging and came across this article

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih...c/articles/PMC3760100/#!po=0.735294

“Our experiments using silica-exposed rats demonstrated that spraying with Chinese herbal kombucha preparations has no toxic side effects and effectively promotes the discharge of silica dust from the lungs.”

Used to make kombucha. Gonna get back into it and see if I can copy their recipe to produce some results. Maybe breathe a little cleaner. Treatment takes a while but who knows how much more satisfying a breath can be, especially since I’ve worked in stuffy conditions much of my life.

“The Chinese herbal extract was prepared by mixing tea (0.2% w/w), licorice (0.5% w/w), dried Siratia grosvenori fruit (0.5% w/w), and wild chrysanthemum (0.2% w/w) in water and boiling the resulting mixtures for 20 min. The boiled solution was then filtered, cooled to below 30°C, and mixed with a 20% dilution of the kombucha stock solution. After fermenting at 30°C for 2 weeks, the Chinese herbal kombucha solution was considered ready for use in experiments.”

Edit: maybe I can put it in a diffuserWut?
 
Ulim
#12 Posted : 1/13/2019 12:43:46 PM

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I still think the best bet is to simply not be exposed to lots of silica dust.
 
Loveall
#13 Posted : 1/13/2019 2:02:55 PM

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Attaching a review with pictures for non treated and heat treated DE.
“... (a) psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it.”
Excerpt from a McKenna talk transcript / audio.
 
leratiomyces
#14 Posted : 1/13/2019 8:34:30 PM
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Johnsonptd wrote:
Thank you for sharing that. I wasn’t aware that it’s still a widespread problem, and I wonder what kind of dusts and particles I’ve accumulated over the years. Totally agree it’s unsafe to breathe it in. Stubborn me not believing in incurable conditions did some digging and came across this article

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih...c/articles/PMC3760100/#!po=0.735294

“Our experiments using silica-exposed rats demonstrated that spraying with Chinese herbal kombucha preparations has no toxic side effects and effectively promotes the discharge of silica dust from the lungs.”

Used to make kombucha. Gonna get back into it and see if I can copy their recipe to produce some results. Maybe breathe a little cleaner. Treatment takes a while but who knows how much more satisfying a breath can be, especially since I’ve worked in stuffy conditions much of my life.

“The Chinese herbal extract was prepared by mixing tea (0.2% w/w), licorice (0.5% w/w), dried Siratia grosvenori fruit (0.5% w/w), and wild chrysanthemum (0.2% w/w) in water and boiling the resulting mixtures for 20 min. The boiled solution was then filtered, cooled to below 30°C, and mixed with a 20% dilution of the kombucha stock solution. After fermenting at 30°C for 2 weeks, the Chinese herbal kombucha solution was considered ready for use in experiments.”

Edit: maybe I can put it in a diffuserWut?



You're a brave person for considering inhaling a solution of Kombucha.
You got more guts than me.

As ulim said, best to avoid inhaling this stuff. Silicosis takes many years to develop.
Use a face mask that filters the particle size in question.
Take care.

 
Johnsonptd
#15 Posted : 1/13/2019 11:48:03 PM

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leratiomyces wrote:
Johnsonptd wrote:
Thank you for sharing that. I wasn’t aware that it’s still a widespread problem, and I wonder what kind of dusts and particles I’ve accumulated over the years. Totally agree it’s unsafe to breathe it in. Stubborn me not believing in incurable conditions did some digging and came across this article

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih...c/articles/PMC3760100/#!po=0.735294

“Our experiments using silica-exposed rats demonstrated that spraying with Chinese herbal kombucha preparations has no toxic side effects and effectively promotes the discharge of silica dust from the lungs.”

Used to make kombucha. Gonna get back into it and see if I can copy their recipe to produce some results. Maybe breathe a little cleaner. Treatment takes a while but who knows how much more satisfying a breath can be, especially since I’ve worked in stuffy conditions much of my life.

“The Chinese herbal extract was prepared by mixing tea (0.2% w/w), licorice (0.5% w/w), dried Siratia grosvenori fruit (0.5% w/w), and wild chrysanthemum (0.2% w/w) in water and boiling the resulting mixtures for 20 min. The boiled solution was then filtered, cooled to below 30°C, and mixed with a 20% dilution of the kombucha stock solution. After fermenting at 30°C for 2 weeks, the Chinese herbal kombucha solution was considered ready for use in experiments.”

Edit: maybe I can put it in a diffuserWut?



You're a brave person for considering inhaling a solution of Kombucha.
You got more guts than me.

As ulim said, best to avoid inhaling this stuff. Silicosis takes many years to develop.
Use a face mask that filters the particle size in question.
Take care.



If you can clean a toilet without wincing or walk barefoot in a shower you got more guts than me. I will be sure to wear a good mask if I do anything more with it and encourage others to do the same. I won’t be pouring kombucha into my lungs, hopefully just breathing in vapors from a diffuser will be enough
 
Loveall
#16 Posted : 1/13/2019 11:55:31 PM

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Which kind did of DE you inhale? The one treated with heat used for pools/filtering is more dangerous for the lungs vs non heat treated (food grade) as I understand it.

http://www.absorbentproductsltd.com/phone/food-grade-diatomaceous-earth-vs-pool-grade.html wrote:
What is the difference between food chemical codex grade (food grade) and pool grade DE?



The difference here lies in the way that each type of DE is treated. Pool Grade DE is calcined, meaning that is treated with very high heat. This turns the silicon dioxide that is present in the DE into crystalline silica. Pool Grade diatomaceous earth, and most other calcined DE products, contain high concentrations of crystalline silica. In fact, some can range from 60 - 70% crystalline silica.



Crystalline silica is very dangerous and can be harmful to the health of humans and animals. For this reason, Pool Grade diatomaceous earth should NOT be used for any purpose other than filtration.



Most Food Chemical Codex Grade (Food Grade) diatomaceous earth products, on the other hand, are not calcined and are composed largely of amorphous silica. Food Chemical Codex Grade (Food Grade) DE products contain less than 1% crystalline silica and can be used in animal feed and for insect control. Food Grade diatomaceous earth, such as Red Lake Earth, unlike pool grade DE, is safe to be used around humans and animals.
“... (a) psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it.”
Excerpt from a McKenna talk transcript / audio.
 
Johnsonptd
#17 Posted : 1/14/2019 4:18:19 AM

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Loveall wrote:
Which kind did of DE you inhale? The one treated with heat used for pools/filtering is more dangerous for the lungs vs non heat treated (food grade) as I understand it.

http://www.absorbentproductsltd.com/phone/food-grade-diatomaceous-earth-vs-pool-grade.html wrote:
What is the difference between food chemical codex grade (food grade) and pool grade DE?



The difference here lies in the way that each type of DE is treated. Pool Grade DE is calcined, meaning that is treated with very high heat. This turns the silicon dioxide that is present in the DE into crystalline silica. Pool Grade diatomaceous earth, and most other calcined DE products, contain high concentrations of crystalline silica. In fact, some can range from 60 - 70% crystalline silica.



Crystalline silica is very dangerous and can be harmful to the health of humans and animals. For this reason, Pool Grade diatomaceous earth should NOT be used for any purpose other than filtration.



Most Food Chemical Codex Grade (Food Grade) diatomaceous earth products, on the other hand, are not calcined and are composed largely of amorphous silica. Food Chemical Codex Grade (Food Grade) DE products contain less than 1% crystalline silica and can be used in animal feed and for insect control. Food Grade diatomaceous earth, such as Red Lake Earth, unlike pool grade DE, is safe to be used around humans and animals.


There it is again, that conflicting information. I use food grade DE and after reading about silicosis I’m still weary of accumulating even small amounts of silica that sticks in the lungs. I literally bombarded the entire room with the stuff and cleaning it out of the hardwood floor and furniture took a solid few days at least.

^This is reassuring. I’m probably not at risk of a serious development, but still the thought of something slowly suffocating my soul sacks has me on guard. Thanks Loveall
 
benzyme
#18 Posted : 1/14/2019 5:03:47 AM

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I use DE everyday, as I have 5 cats. Not too worried about inhaling the stuff.
You'd be better off using molecular sieves. It's designed to dry/purify solvents.
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