Wouldnt it be nice to have a modest piece of dessert in the room? with some cacti and some other pretty dessert plants... Too bad where I live there is no dessert, so it is not possible to effectively grow San Pedro without use of an extra source of light. Whether it be simple fluorescent or more advanced LED systems (there is some neat stuff out there in lampland), I would need some extra light. So I got interested in the subject. Maybe some of you know more about growing SP indoors? I would like to know in particular about the sort of minimum artificial lighting that could be used to provide pretty cacti. That grow fast and fat enough to provide an occasional mescalinetrip eventualy yes.

Dont worry about respect for the plant (spirits). I like plants, and plants like me. They always show me so.

Why do people always say this?

Trichocereus cacti can be grown in Canada if you want!

Grow them outside in the spring and summer and move them indoors for dormancy in the winter!

NO LIGHTS!!!!

Hello `Coatl
Thank you for having a look at this.
Growing them like you suggest is an option. But dont you think that way they will grow less in a year?

They are pretty, and this is certainly one reason for keeping them. But my guess is they will be prettier and present more when I offer them optimized light, which comes down to putting artifical light on those sexy ribs. Also, when I cut some that are not meant to be pretty, I would like them to become big again soon. Pups would make me happy. My guess there are some special fluorescents that provide just the right spectrum in the right ammount of light (im going for 'daylight at noon'.

Short on cash at the moment but I am really looking forward to starting my own little peace of dessert one day. Perhaps also put in a littl cricket, and some rocks in there too. Could be nice I think.

What you need is super intense light or they will get VERY skinny and look like shit.

Try it both ways and see which you like best.

Guess they are not many people here growing cacti indoors.
Anyay, was thinking it should be best to keep them in wide not too deep keramic pots. So they can be moved outdoors during nice summerdays.
They can sit by me in the garden so we can enjoy the sun.

For as ar as winter time I was thinking they still want at least normal full daylight. On the net there are some reports of people having succes using fluorescents tubes, when placed about 15cm from the tops of the cacti. This would provide the strength of full daylight. So they place the cacti on shelves which are as long as the tubes. But that way there is not a 'pretty little dessert' that I had in mind for me and the cacti.

That is why I am considering alternative light sources, like spots with special LED developed for growing green plants. I was thinking about using nice looking spots (the casing around the spot LEDs I will design and make myself) that hang on a string above the cacti. When done in an artistic, minimalistic, surealistic way (maybe later I will make drawing of my idea), then the whole picture can be nice I think. And the cacti would play the title role of course, literaly in the spotlight : )

Having a ,say, 200watt fluorescent light on for 12-16 hours for a year or so is really a lot of electricity (and a lot of money) spent. Is all the electricity wasted worth the growing cacti for say 3-4 trips a ? year?

I think not and I also thing that it is downright immoral and selfish. You may think that you make yourself sufficient if you grow the cacti yourself but at the same time you become totally dependent on high inputs of electricity.

If you really want to do things right, grow a few cacti at home as specimens for you to love and feel happy and at the same time on vacation at your favourite hot place and plant 20-30 cacti at different locations somewhere in the wild. Then come once a year and harvest.

Or order some cactus online (fresh/powder/chips/whatever).

High inputs of energy? Hey im not planning on growing MJ lol.
No actualy Im thinking about 50W will do the trick, when fluorescents tubes are used. And the special LEDs that can be bought take less power and produce more light then the tubes. Really Im not interested in wasting electricity. Btw using regular lighting (common lightbulbs) just to make a cozy livingroom will also take energy... I live in the Netherlands. We need some light dude.

Perhaps ordering dried chips is more costefficient. But they are illegal for me to purchase. You see?
I could buy fresh. And I have done so already. But they are pricy. It will work for 3-4 trips a year yes, which is enough indeed.
But I would prefer home-grown for all the obvious reasons.

Really like your idea about planting them in the wild and visiting them sometimes. That would ne nice. I do visit Spain regulary.
Maybe if I grow some pups in the little dessert in my livingroom... then I can used those for guerilla farming : ) Great!

Any1 of you experienced in the art of artifical lighting?

Btw im not immoral or selfish. Not any more then you human.
Dont need to explain that one right?

This is what I do with my cacti in the Winter, I life in NL.

Set them as close to the windows as possible for the following reasons:
* As much light as possible
* As cold as possible

I also don't water them in winter.

This means that in winter the cactus won't grow but it also means that no thin parts will appear on top of the cactus that will never go away again. What infundibulum says makes sense: it's better to have more cacti that you grow in summer as opposed to using less cacti with an energy wasting lamp (buying the lamp and energy costs). Really, just buy twice the amount of cacti and only grow them in summer, it's the best option.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Thx for the tips.
But is it clear I would like a 'mini dessert' in my livingroom? (cacti, sand, rocks, perhap also some succulents)
Like other people have aquaria. And Im not talking about energy slurping HPS bulbs or so.
The whole installation should not take more energy then I am already using for, well... light!

: )

It's not worth it..you will end up with long skiiny cactus tops..trust me. The lights you need to grow them properly all winter are powerful grow lights..I tried it with a normal low energy spiral bulb and it was not strong enough..

I ended up taking cuttings and planting them and putting them in my in my window sill to stay dormant now until summer..you will mess up your cactus otherwie.

I think that you misread my post and also misunderstood me; so I'll try to make things more clear.

I did not call you neither immoral nor selfish. My post reads like this: if you plan to spend huge amounts of human resources (i.e. electricity to grow cactuses indoors) in a manner similar to driving a hummer jeep 100metres down the road to buy cigarettes instead of just walking, then this action is an immoral, selfish action.

But as you explained in your second post, if you are planning not to overuse electricity, then it is totally fine. I really doubt however if you will be able to do this with simple LED or fluorescent lights but please feel free to prove me wrong on this comment. As far I as know the best LED and fluorescent bulbs for growing plants consume just half of the electricity compared to the ~same intensity~ HPS, which is still considerably high consumption.

So, if you plan to make a desert using your current light setup (10-60W bulb turned on few hours a day when you're in your room) then get ready to have a very miserable-looking garden. Most plants love nothing more than nice, bright, intense light.

I see now. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
Guess you are also very curious about discussion going on in Copenhagen.
Lets hope the desperate voice of earth is heard loud and clear there.

Im still playing with the thought of setting up this little dessert. No more, no less. Think it is too easy (and less fun : ) to abandon the whole idea without doing some research about the possibilities (inculding new light technology). So thats why Im poking around here and there. In the end I will at least know more about cacti and about artifical lights lol.

Btw did you see about the new LED technology?
From the wiki:

'Recent advancements in LEDs have allowed for the production of relatively cheap, bright, and long lasting grow lights that emit only the wavelengths of light corresponding to chlorophyll's absorption peaks. These lights are attractive to indoor growers since they do not consume as much power, do not require ballasts, and produce a fraction of the heat of HID lamps. There are four chlorophyll absorption peaks and LED grow lights use four different types of LEDs to hit all four peaks (two red and two blue). It should be pointed out that there is no peer reviewed scientific evidence supporting the claims of higher growth rate using LED grow lights versus HID lighting; however a number of non-scientific grow tests can be found online.'

Artificial Lighting is very good for huge numbers of seedlings during the winter periods .
It really speeds up the whole process greatly .

Cool!

I agree that LED technology is very promising. Especially with those that emit wavelengths corresponding to the absorption maxima of chlorophylls. It makes sense that there will consume much less electricity but much less? It would be nice to plug in some numbers and make accurate comparisons.

And Virola78, I gotta say SWIM totally sees your point; he lives in a blazing hot country yet a mini-indoor garden sounds like a great idea if it can done cheaply end efficiently.

I dont really deal too much with numbers , so i dont have any handy , currently i have my plants under 2x 36w fluorescent lights (daywhite or coolwhite) and they are doing well so far Be sure to check this :

http://trichocereusforestryservice.blogspot.com/ Thats a very nice blog -it deals also with led lighting . Its a very good read with lots of pictures .
I think that is really the fastest way of growing san pedro .

I am not interested in keeping my bigger cacti under artificial light during winter (they get the normal winter break for the obvious reasons),
its just the seedlings - which will ideally get to be fast growing mini mother plants someday, some of them grafted on pereskiopsis

unless one has a 1000 watt HPS they are not using much more energy than an extra mini fridge if that. Many people have indoor gardens. There is nothing wrong or immoral about this. If one gets pleasure out of carrying for plants than they should. I am not sure what is meant by over using electricity it should be the total you use not one thing. I agree we all need to be more mindful of this but unless you live in a solar powered house or a hut, I think you likely have a few pleasures you could give up to SAVE electricity. your refrigerator? You could just walk to the store everyday and buy fresh food? Not trying to be a jerk but I wouldn't want to see indoor legal cacti growing discouraged for no reason.

Cacti respond beautifully to HPS lights. Some people can not grow them outdoors. I agree if you live in the desert and full sun all year around, it is unnecessary and they would do better outside anyway but a small HPS system does not use much energy.
Many of my friends have used them for a variety of reasons, people always think they use so much electricity for some reason, your bill is only $5 more if that with 400 watts.

I would love to see such an Indoor Cactus Garden .
Whether on soil or Aero-/Hydroponic.

Can the plants develop nicely if they never get outside ?

Yea if under HPS and good care. They do as very well as do most plants. Outdoors would be optimal as it is the natural source of energy but if you can't then an in-door set up works.