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Predetermined Universe moves from "heaven" to "hell". Where are we? Options
 
xrrv
#1 Posted : 1/5/2019 12:36:43 PM

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We are actually god without having free will and move around through existences in a predetermined universe.

There is a cosmic law that always governs what comes next. After all, the universe repeats itself.

So we always moves through bliss and suffering. There is that long period of suffering at the bottom of the universe and there
is that long period of bliss at the top of the universe. See attached picture to this post.

The universe rotates. The cosmic law makes sure that nothing is missed.
That long period of suffering will come even if we don't want to.

My question is this:
Where are we located in this self-repeating universe?
Are we really in the bliss period after death and human existence is just a small misery in bliss?
Are we in the middle? Between suffering and bliss?
Or are we close to eternal hell, that long period of suffering coming ever closer, which no one can escape?
Are we moving from bottom/suffering to top/bliss or the other way around?

Where are we? Where am I? Where do you think are we given that picture? What do your experiences with dmt tell you about the position of the universe?

I had an out of body experience and there was only bliss coming closer. I believe that is what happens after death but I could be mistaken.
Could human existence just be a small bad experience in the sequence of everlasting blissful experiences? Or am I mistaken?

Btw. I do not believe in reincarnation. In my opinion it is just a concept. Once dead, a return to the source happens but what determines a next existence is
dependant upon where we are in that cosmic law.

What do you think? What do you believe?

Attached picture:
https://imgur.com/zVdqNMl

(The prior one was removed.)

 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
DmnStr8
#2 Posted : 1/5/2019 1:58:08 PM

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Maybe time doesn't really exist. It is always now. Suffering and bliss occur always in the now. Everything else is an illusion.
“Sensation tell us a thing is.
Thinking tell us what it is this thing is.
Feeling tells us what this thing is to us.”
― C.G. Jung
 
xrrv
#3 Posted : 1/5/2019 2:20:17 PM

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DmnStr8 wrote:
Maybe time doesn't really exist. It is always now. Suffering and bliss occur always in the now. Everything else is an illusion.


In the absolute state, time does not exist because everything IS, but there is movement here, a sequence of events happens. So time also exists and the cosmic law governs what happens next.
 
332211
#4 Posted : 1/5/2019 3:39:19 PM

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hmmm, you might be experiencing impermanence:

nothing in this universe is fixed, or unchanging.

if you go to the molecular level, every atom is in constant swinging motions,
so even if the wall in front of you seems "solid" and you can not walk through it,
it is not as solid as it looks as the atoms are swinging.

the ssame with your mind: there are constantly thoughts and feelings arising,
and they are interdependent, eg. a certain thought might trigger a certain
feeling and vice versa. but also this is ever changing and trying to keep
an emotion from vanishing or rising, causes problems...

the rest of your ideas are just attempts of the mind to make sense of that.
keep thinking, and do not think too much Pleased

 
xrrv
#5 Posted : 1/5/2019 4:17:10 PM

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332211 wrote:
hmmm, you might be experiencing impermanence:

nothing in this universe is fixed, or unchanging.



I believe the content of the universe or the number of ideas of the universe is fixed and unchangeable. However, it "changes" because it repeats itself. This is so because the content is indestructible. Because everything repeats itself suffering and bliss happen interchangeably. Heaven and hell just happen and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

I wonder where we are in the absolute in this "round" of the self-repeating universe. Close to the bliss or close to the suffering?

You are insofar not correct when you say that the universe is unchanging, because heaven and hell happen again and again. In the same fashion. Everything just repeats itself. Do you really believe, that the number of ideas in the universe is unlimited? Think again. I do not think that this is possible. Neither is it logical.

But you are right, everything always "changes". I agree. There is always change.

Time is infinite.
Content is not.
There is a fixed number of worlds in this universe.

If the content of the universe would be infinite you could "will" yourself a never ending paradise or hell into existence. Not possible...

That would have already happened in infinity. Yet it did not.

Neither is free will possible. If the content is limited how can there be anything for "free"?
 
PsyDuckmonkey
#6 Posted : 1/5/2019 5:51:46 PM

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Where does your sense of such certainty come from? Was it something you 'realized' during a trip, or was it 'shown to you'? It's a good idea to always treat such experiences with a level of skepticism. Smile
Do you believe in the THIRD SUMMER OF LOVE?
 
xrrv
#7 Posted : 1/5/2019 6:44:25 PM

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PsyDuckmonkey wrote:
Where does your sense of such certainty come from? Was it something you 'realized' during a trip, or was it 'shown to you'? It's a good idea to always treat such experiences with a level of skepticism. Smile


I had an out of body experience...it was deep...I almost left this world forever. There was only bliss. It was too much for me and it was interrupted. I had the feeling if I go there now, it will be bliss for an unbelievably long time period - eternally. Understanding came later. The sense of "free will" was destroyed. It all happened without drugs.

Despite this positive experience, I still wonder where I am in this universe. Later on, I realized, that this eternal bliss has an ugly counterpart - eternal suffering/hell. It is hard to accept that this is part of myself, part of the universe. Literally half of me is made up of constant painful suffering. There is literally 50 percent bliss and 50 percent suffering in the entire universe. Duality.


 
PsyDuckmonkey
#8 Posted : 1/5/2019 6:50:54 PM

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Well personally I disagree with a lot of the 'axioms' you stated, so I cannot offer insight to fill out the blanks in your theory.

Personally I have had experiences that were in direct contradiction to each other in what they implied as to the nature of reality. So right now my theory is that reality is kinda like the proverbial elephant to a blind man. Sometimes it's long and thin like a snake, sometimes it's flat and floppy like a blanket, sometimes it's round and huge like a barrel, sometimes it's cylindrical and hard like a tree...

You've touched the elephant's tail, and have a really deep realization of what it's like. It's important to keep an open mind. The elephant is not a tail.
Do you believe in the THIRD SUMMER OF LOVE?
 
xrrv
#9 Posted : 1/5/2019 7:34:56 PM

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PsyDuckmonkey wrote:

You've touched the elephant's tail, and have a really deep realization of what it's like. It's important to keep an open mind. The elephant is not a tail.


Is the realization of utter oneness with the universe and the complete conviction of being god touching the elephant's tail???

I don't think so. You don't seem to understand...

There was no mystery left besides myself later on wondering where I am in the universe. Everything else was pretty much clear.

I could deliver real logical arguments from scratch for why this "theory" is true but I am tired to argue what I know is right anyway. I rather want to know WHERE I am and not HOW it all works. I already know how it works. There is no doubt left. Trust me, there is no free will, there is limited content of the universe, there is 50 percent suffering and the universe just repeats itself. God has no free will. Neither is there unconditional love. It all depends. If you want to experience 50 percent of eternal bliss, you have to experience the opposite as well. There is no free lunch.


 
PsyDuckmonkey
#10 Posted : 1/5/2019 7:52:58 PM

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You seem to lack even the most basic respect for other viewpoints. It may come across as a shock, but no, I don’t trust you, and how much or how little doubt is left in you is completely irrelevant. If you want others to accept your words without question, I suggest starting a cult.

Yes, the realization that you are god IS the elephant’s tail in my view.
Do you believe in the THIRD SUMMER OF LOVE?
 
xrrv
#11 Posted : 1/5/2019 8:05:11 PM

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PsyDuckmonkey wrote:
You seem to lack even the most basic respect for other viewpoints. It may come across as a shock, but no, I don’t trust you, and how much or how little doubt is left in you is completely irrelevant. If you want others to accept your words without question, I suggest starting a cult.


I don't want to start a cult.

Do you have any suggestions of WHERE I am?

PsyDuckmonkey wrote:

Yes, the realization that you are god IS the elephant’s tail in my view.


Prove that I am not god. Prove that we are not god. How much or how little doubt is left in you is completely irrelevant.
 
xss27
#12 Posted : 1/5/2019 8:27:38 PM

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xrrv wrote:
The universe rotates.

What do you think? What do you believe?

Attached picture:
https://imgur.com/Ncd5KIk


Whilst I think there's the possibility you may have touched upon something real in your experience/s, I think you're trying too hard to translate it back through a relative human viewpoint. Your concept structure is, well, a bit too human.

If the Universe rotates that immediately implies something external for it to be rotating relative to - all motion is relative to something else. A single particle in the abyss could be moving a million miles an hour but you'd never know because there's nothing relative to it with which to compare. Your diagram shows this misunderstanding (you drew a boundary).

I would guess you entertained the notion of heaven and hell before any of these experiences, yes?
 
DreadedShaman
#13 Posted : 1/5/2019 8:33:44 PM

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Well I kinda wanted to jump in on this, but kinda want to stay out of it after reading some replies haha.

So I'll keep it short.

I can't say the picture you attached speaks to me, it depicts a singular revolutionary cycle and I can't say I think this is how the universe works.

I don't think you're totally wrong.... But a circle doesn't do it justice. An image or a mandelbrot fractal comes to mind when I think of how the universe functions. But I'll leave it at that.

 
xrrv
#14 Posted : 1/5/2019 8:56:04 PM

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xss27 wrote:

If the Universe rotates that immediately implies something external for it to be rotating relative to - all motion is relative to something else. A single particle in the abyss could be moving a million miles an hour but you'd never know because there's nothing relative to it with which to compare. Your diagram shows this misunderstanding (you drew a boundary).


oops. There wasn't meant to be a boundary. I should have made a transition between the abyss and the top more clear. Sorry for that. Actually I tried to make the abyss ever darker. I guess my painting skills kind of suck.

Why something external?
The universe rotates around god by itself. We are god and therefore it rotates around us.

xss27 wrote:

I would guess you entertained the notion of heaven and hell before any of these experiences, yes?


Yes, but I was not aware of the fact that suffering in the universe consists of so much - 50 percent. Of course also with a transition there of suffering becoming ever more intense the deeper it gets into the abyss.

DreadedShaman wrote:

I can't say the picture you attached speaks to me, it depicts a singular revolutionary cycle and I can't say I think this is how the universe works.

I don't think you're totally wrong.... But a circle doesn't do it justice. An image or a mandelbrot fractal comes to mind when I think of how the universe functions. But I'll leave it at that.


You are right but it is a simplification. It all comes down to duality and a circle works when simplified.
 
DreadedShaman
#15 Posted : 1/5/2019 9:09:30 PM

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xrrv wrote:


You are right but it is a simplification. It all comes down to duality and a circle works when simplified.



Too simplified if you ask me... Duality implies a boundary imo, dark and light let's say. But dark and light are only the extremes, there are greys amongst the dark and the light.

I'll just leave this here: https://youtu.be/PD2XgQOyCCk

 
dragonrider
#16 Posted : 1/5/2019 9:10:02 PM

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You say we don't have free will. But what exactly, would free will be, if it would exist?

I personally find this predeterminism vs free will issue, pretty confusing.

Say you wanted to prove that free will exists...what should such a proof look like?
Could on the other hand you disprove the existence of it, without knowing yet, what exactly constitutes the experience of free will?
 
xrrv
#17 Posted : 1/5/2019 9:21:08 PM

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DreadedShaman wrote:

Too simplified if you ask me... Duality implies a boundary imo, dark and light let's say. But dark and light are only the extremes, there are greys amongst the dark and the light.


There is a transition. As I said, my painting skills suck. Otherwise this would have been clearer.
 
xrrv
#18 Posted : 1/5/2019 9:24:03 PM

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dragonrider wrote:
You say we don't have free will. But what exactly, would free will be, if it would exist?

I personally find this predeterminism vs free will issue, pretty confusing.

Say you wanted to prove that free will exists...what should such a proof look like?
Could on the other hand you disprove the existence of it, without knowing yet, what exactly constitutes the experience of free will?


Free will would require the existence of infinite ideas. Such a thing does not exist.

Infinite time plus limited content means no free will. It has never been any different.
 
DreadedShaman
#19 Posted : 1/5/2019 9:27:16 PM

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xrrv wrote:
DreadedShaman wrote:

Too simplified if you ask me... Duality implies a boundary imo, dark and light let's say. But dark and light are only the extremes, there are greys amongst the dark and the light.


There is a transition. As I said, my painting skills suck. Otherwise this would have been clearer.



All I'm saying is to me duality implies a boundary, a gradient doesn't have a boundary. I'm basing this simply off your description, not your skills at shading a circle Razz
 
xss27
#20 Posted : 1/5/2019 9:33:56 PM

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xrrv wrote:
Why something external?
The universe rotates around god by itself. We are god and therefore it rotates around us.


If the Universe rotates around God, then you are implying that God is something objective and relative for it to rotate relative to. This I don't agree with. To my mind God is [the] Absolute and is not objective, there is nothing relative to it yet it contains all the relative.

I think you may be entertaining a solipsistic paradigm in your head and would caution you to be careful with how much you invest yourself in these ideas. Don't lose track of what is in front of you Smile





 
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