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MAOI with flavonoids Options
 
pastanostra
#1 Posted : 12/8/2018 10:18:51 AM

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Just fallen on this article : http://www.dragibusmag.c...-overlooked-ingredients/

It says :

Quote:
Several flavonoids have been identified as inhibitors of MAO-A and MAO-B. The flavonols kaempferol and quercetin and the flavones apigenin and chrysin were isolated from a standardized Gingko biloba extract. All four flavonoids were identified as MAO-A inhibitors with IC50 values of: kaempferol (0.7 μM), apigenin (1 μM), chrysin (2μM) and Quercetin (5 μM). Phenelzine, a non-selective and irreversible inhibitor of MAO was used as a reference compound (IC50 value 0.04 μM).

Quote:

Fruits and vegetables particularly citrus fruits, apples, onions, parsley, tea, red wine, etc. are the primary dietary sources of Quercetin. Olive oil, grapes, dark cherries, and dark berries such as blueberries and bilberries are also high in flavonoids including Quercetin. Studies were conducted on the flavonoids (Myricetin, Quercetin, Kaempferol, Luteolin and Apegenin) contents of 62 edible tropical plants. The highest total flavonoids contents were found in onion leaves (1497 mg/Kg Quercetin, 391 mg/kg Luteolin and 832 mg/kg Kaempferol) followed by semambu leaves, bird chillies, black tea, papaya shoots and guava. Major flavonoids content in these plant extract is Quercetin, followed by Myricetin, and Kaempferol. In vegetables, Quercetin glycosides predominate but glycosides of Kaempferol, Luteolin and Apegenin are also present. Fruits contain almost exclusively Quercetin glycosides, whereas Kaempferol and Myricetin glycosides are found only in trace quantities.


Quote:

‘Dieta’ undertaken, sometimes for a week or more before psychoactive brews are taken ceremonially in traditional cultures. It stands to reason that loading the body beforehand with high amounts of flavonoid containing plants would only help the MAOI process, effectively boosting the potency of the psychoactive brew once it was administered.


Do some of you tried flavonoid as / before MAOI ?
Does procedure for alkaloids could be used for flavonoids ?

Wikipedia syas for Quercetin it's praticaly insoluble in water but soluble in basic aqueous env.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin

 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
0_o
#2 Posted : 12/8/2018 2:54:07 PM

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In what sense?
Like MAO inhibitors to try to activate or potentiate tryptamines?
My understanding is that it does not work.
I've tried unsuccessfully to use flavonoid rich foods to increase subjective effects of mescaline and mushrooms.
 
kerelsk
#3 Posted : 12/8/2018 3:27:25 PM

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nen888 has reportedly activated acacia extract with Passiflora incarnata, which has high levels of MAOI flavonoids and relatively little harmala alks.
 
grollum
#4 Posted : 12/8/2018 5:30:15 PM

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kerelsk wrote:
nen888 has reportedly activated acacia extract with Passiflora incarnata, which has high levels of MAOI flavonoids and relatively little harmala alks.


Do you remember where he writes about it, and what dose of passion flower he used?
 
kerelsk
#5 Posted : 12/8/2018 7:05:09 PM

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The Passifloras of interest & MAOI plant flavonoids thread is great if you haven't looked through it.

Specific quote by nen
nen888 wrote:
this is the first time the details of a 1996 p. inacarnata + acacia extract huasca experiment have been released outside of the ethnobotanic research community: (an incarnata vaporized extract experiment is referred to in Voogelbreinder 2009)

"...approx. 1kg of purchased dry passiflora incarnata stem & leaf was boiled X3 in rain water...the large amount of liquid was combined and reduced over several hours, turning increasingly dark purple/brown and thick..,while still possible it was filtered several times through fine cheesecloth...a point of viscosity was reached at which 1 hypothesized dose (333grams of herb) equalled a large glass or coffee mug of thick liquid (the aromas during the process were noted to be somewhat mildly psychoactive)
...A dosage of estimated at = 400 grams herb was consumed by two subjects...5 minutes afterwards approx. 50-70mg of a. obtusifolia extract as the freebase was rapidly swallowed and chased with water/lemon juice (to remove the awful freebase aftertaste)
...Within 10 minutes strong sedative and 'anti-depressant' effects from the passiflora were felt...as these grew (without yet tryptamine effects) it was commented that this plant alone was a satisfying experience...A shiny and pleasant 'haze' surrounded lights...At around 90 minutes, after it was pondered that maybe MAO inhibition was not sufficient, tryptamine-like effects (geometries, '4D-ness', auditory) rapidly grew over 10 minutes accompanied by sudden purging...
...Both subjects found the intensity of colors beyond their previous experiments with a. extract and p. harmala or b. caapi...'fantastic bright blues, reds, purples and golden hues.'...It was subjectively judged as more sedative or narcotic than rue or caapi with a strong 'dreaminess'...rue was judged the 'clearest', caapi unique in other ways...
'It made the tryptamines very dreamy, colorful, and beautiful...very feminine.'
...After a linear 'plateau' of 30 minutes, effects gradually subsided over 2-4 hours, with a sense of sedation up to 5hrs afterwards. Overall, it was very positive...'It lacked the punch of rue, but had such a lovely dreamy quality...very sensual...'..."

it is possible some of the MAOI activity was due to the flavonoids Apigenin and Kaempferol, as well as the ß-carbolines harmine, harmaline, harman, norharman and harmol (present at 0.1-0.2% [Hultin]; Gracie & Zarkov claim up to 0.5%)
Flavinoids are present at around 1.5%,or more, in stems and leaves..regarding Kaempferol, also found in Ginkgo biloba, from:
B. D. Sloley et al.
["Identification of Kaempferol as a Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor and Potential Neuroprotectant in Extracts of Ginkgo Biloba Leaves" Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmacology Volume 52, Issue 4, pages 451–459, April 2000]
Quote:
Ginkgo biloba leaf extract was shown to produce in-vitro inhibition of rat brain MAO-A and -B. The Ginkgo biloba extract was chromatographed on a reverse-phase HPLC system and two of the components isolated were shown to be MAO inhibitors (MAOIs). These MAOIs were identified by high-resolution mass spectrometry as kaempferol and isorhamnetin. Pure kaempferol and a number of related flavonoids were examined as MAOIs in-vitro. Kaempferol, apigenin and chrysin proved to be potent MAOIs, but produced more pronounced inhibition of MAO-A than MAO-B. IC50 (50% inhibition concentration) values for the ability of these three flavones to inhibit MAO-A were 7 times 10−7, 1 times 10−6 and 2 times 10−6m, respectively.



some potent MAOI flavonoids include quercitrin, isoquercitrin, rutin, and quercetin, which were isolated from the leaves of Melastoma candidum. They exhibited an inhibitory effect on MAO-B. The IC50 values 19.06, 11.64, 3.89, and 10.89 μM respectively/
["Monoamine Oxidase B and Free Radical Scavenging Activities of Natural Flavonoids in Melastoma candidum "
Mei-Hsien Lee et al. J. Agric. Food Chem., 2001, 49 (11), pp 5551–5555]

..many more plants than previously thought could be effective MAO inhibitors..

i have attached a cool paper on flavonoids and their bio-activity
"Flavonoids and the CNS" Anna K. Jäger and Lasse Saaby Molecules 2011, 16, 1471-1485


By the way, nobody else to my knowledge has reported back confirming P. incarnata as a functional ayahuasca analog yet. I'm receiving some fresh P. incarnata to grow this spring, they have been hit or miss germinating in past years but I'm hoping to try this sooner or later.
 
grollum
#6 Posted : 12/8/2018 7:39:39 PM

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Thanks kerelsk,

I read about the possible MAOI features of P. incarnata but the consent always seemed to be that it might not worth it because you need to much material. But this report sounds like 200g of herb are enough to get things colorful. Will work through that thread!
 
grollum
#7 Posted : 12/9/2018 1:25:32 PM

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@pastanostra

Regadring Quercetin raw capers seem to have a quite high content of it.
It seems to be an easy and safe experiment to extract or even eat many capers and combine with dmt. I am not sure how the ic50 brings me to the potentially needed amount.

And i just discovered Quercetin is also available in health shops as antioxidant.
 
pastanostra
#8 Posted : 12/9/2018 7:07:18 PM

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Thank you guys for your answers.
It seems i don't undersrtand the pka :

pKa (Strongest Acidic) 6.44 ChemAxon
pKa (Strongest Basic) -4 ChemAxon

https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB04216

What is -4 in basic ?
 
downwardsfromzero
#9 Posted : 12/9/2018 11:16:40 PM

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If apigenin has a worthwhile MAOI activity, it would mean that celery seeds might be worth adding to the mix.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
pastanostra
#10 Posted : 12/17/2018 7:39:50 PM

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grollum
#11 Posted : 12/17/2018 9:11:31 PM

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That looks promising. Which plants are meant in the 2. link?
Are H. afrum and C. villosus Hypericum afrum and Calothamnus villosus?

Is Hypericum afrum similar to Hypericum perforatum (Saint John's wort)?

In the 3rd link the title "Crystal engineering of flavonoids" sounds amazing Pleased
 
pastanostra
#12 Posted : 12/18/2018 7:27:29 AM

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It seems they are Hypericum afrum and Calothamnus villosus but can't say at 100%
Hypericum is a very large, i think in phytochem it can be the same ?


https://innovareacademic...icle/viewFile/10943/4982



 
Jagube
#13 Posted : 12/18/2018 10:35:32 AM

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pastanostra wrote:
It seems they are Hypericum afrum and Calothamnus villosus but can't say at 100%

A text search within the page for "hypericum" answers your question:

Quote:
The objective was to evaluate the inhibitory effect of Hypericum afrum and Cytisus villosus against MAO-A and B and to isolate the compounds responsible for the MAO-inhibitory activity.


grollum wrote:
Is Hypericum afrum similar to Hypericum perforatum (Saint John's wort)?

They both share some compounds found in the H. afrum paper to be the principal MAOI constituents (quercetin and myricetin), but please note St. John's Wort's SSRI compound hyperforin is dangerous in combination with MAOIs (in fact, the Ayahuasca Safety Council recommends leaving two weeks after St. John's Wort before drinking the brew).

So if P. perforatum is safe, it must be because it doesn't contain quercetin and myricetin in high enough amounts.

I see quercetin supplements are available on ebay and in health stores where I am. Looks like it could be an interesting experiment.
 
grollum
#14 Posted : 12/20/2018 11:13:03 PM

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Thanks Jagube for clearing things up.

Quercetin seems like a simple easy to do experiment. But which dose would be enough?
 
 
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