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What is the purpose in Psilocybin? Options
 
Xwolfgangx97
#1 Posted : 12/7/2018 8:21:10 AM
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Hey everyone, I was looking at the chem. Structure of Psilocin (the metabolite) and serotonin and was thinking "what is the purpose in this chemical in the mushroom." Is it just a means of defense from less evolved animals, as they would trip out and likely be eaten, or does the mushroom use the psilocybin as a means of cellular communication, similar to Serotonin in our neurons? Not much on google about this... sorry just got some dab today and im high as hell lmao
 

Ever have a personal encounter with an entity after taking DMT?
 
0_o
#2 Posted : 12/7/2018 10:17:27 AM

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In some animals like mice psychedelics cause them to stop hiding and being cautious.
Possibly by affecting the sense of self... and altering perception.
This vastly decreases survivability, mice that do not hide become food.

However humans have no major predators and as long as they stay safe they can enjoy states that other species are negatively affected by.
 
Xwolfgangx97
#3 Posted : 12/7/2018 11:49:43 AM
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Thats a good point, but then what purpose does DMT serve the tree I wonder, maybe dmt kills insects similar to the chemical in mothballs and weve just been smoking natures pesticide 😂😂
 
DreadedShaman
#4 Posted : 12/7/2018 12:06:20 PM

Oh! I just thought of how to change all the hate Into love with the old switcheroo Dancing in my déjà vu You'll be dancing too

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I have a post in Welcome Discussion that fits into this, though (although realizing the science behind it too) I more into the idea that t
The chemicals are the plants/fungi trying to communicate with with us
 
Loveall
#5 Posted : 12/7/2018 1:03:40 PM

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One possibility is that the mushroom figured out how to make us cultivate it. It may also be upgrading our neurological network with good old psychedlic neurogenesis so we don't stupedly destroy the planet we both inhabit.

This may sound far-fetched (and well, it is). However, keep im mind that mushrooms figured out how to make ants climb to high ground before fruiting out of their head, and how to turn cicadas into sex crazed bisexual half body sporulating zombies.

When I'm growimg mushrooms sometimes I ask myself, am I really growing the mushroom or is the mushroom making me grow it? Does it matter? I dont really know, but I end up just enjoying the beauty of the grow.
“... (a) psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it.”
Excerpt from a McKenna talk transcript / audio.
 
0_o
#6 Posted : 12/7/2018 1:47:31 PM

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I admit I am not specist nor into teleology.
I don't support the idea that existence revolves around our species and what we use things for.

I don't believe rocks evolved to be used as arrowheads, to give an example.

Edited to add:
The idea that organisms have goals in evolution is a form of magical thinking.
Like the concept that an organism chooses to evolve a trait for a specific purpose is like saying that plastic chose to exist so that it could kill sea turtles. Or like saying that trees choose to evolve to have bark so they could be places for moss to grow.

 
pete666
#7 Posted : 12/7/2018 1:54:35 PM

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Another "possibility" is that (not only) mushrooms are just some kind of factories. Designed by some higher intelligence and offering us a key to another dimensions. I can't imagine the intelligence I saw and experienced there is just coincidence of interaction between some random chemical and our brain. This could hardly evolve without intent within some reasonable time.

But yes, if I forget what I saw there, other theories might be likely too Smile
Acceptance of the fact that our reality is not real doesn't in fact mean it is not real. It just leads to better understanding what real means.
 
0_o
#8 Posted : 12/7/2018 2:02:30 PM

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If mushrooms existed before people then wouldn't we claim that people evolved to that mushrooms chemicals could have an effect?

 
pete666
#9 Posted : 12/7/2018 2:29:19 PM

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If (theoretically Smile) this world exists only when someone is observing, can we say anything within it existed before the observer?
Acceptance of the fact that our reality is not real doesn't in fact mean it is not real. It just leads to better understanding what real means.
 
Loveall
#10 Posted : 12/7/2018 3:24:18 PM

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pete666 wrote:
Another "possibility" is that (not only) mushrooms are just some kind of factories. Designed by some higher intelligence and offering us a key to another dimensions. I can't imagine the intelligence I saw and experienced there is just coincidence of interaction between some random chemical and our brain. This could hardly evolve without intent within some reasonable time.

But yes, if I forget what I saw there, other theories might be likely too Smile


I've heard (but don't have the reference now, so It may not be true) that mushroom spores can survive in space. Also, serotonin is pervasive on earth.

So it does make sense that if you setup or understand the rules in our universe (physics/chemistry/etc) you would expect for serotonin based conciousnes to show up from time to time among the trillions of star systems. By adding in space capable spores that are regularly ejected into the interstellar medium by meteor strikes or Brownian motion, you have a means of sending a message through the universe without having to check in with individual civilizations (which may be very hard due to the constraints of the speed of light and large cosmic distances). You may be just trying to help serotonin intelligence get to the next level before it kills itself in wars or other missuse of new technology.

There may be billions of different species tripping together with us, marveling at the beauty of our universe and wondering what this is all about.

There are some McKenna talks touching on some of these points and others (here is one). Who knows if there is any truth to this, but it sure is fun to entertainment the idea.
“... (a) psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it.”
Excerpt from a McKenna talk transcript / audio.
 
RoundAbout
#11 Posted : 12/7/2018 3:46:30 PM
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If you throw enough shit at a wall some will stick. If the air contains Psilocybe spores, some of that shit may grow magic mushrooms.

My question?

Did I really throw that shit at the wall, or was I being controlled by hyper-dimensional aliens who required a status update from this sector of this universe?

Please listen to me I will type anything you will read.
 
0_o
#12 Posted : 12/7/2018 6:37:08 PM

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pete666 wrote:
If (theoretically Smile) this world exists only when someone is observing, can we say anything within it existed before the observer?

Yet if the world exists now, and someone if born and it still exists, then it existed before that person and it stands to reason it existed before I was born, and it existed before the first person existed.

Observation doesn't create reality.
Schrodinger was mocking bad science with his cat, it was a joke.
The cat is dead or alive, the observation doesn't change that.
The point is that not knowing if the cat is alive doesn't mean it is or isn't.

If I observe a cloud that looks like a fish I can say that the cloud is designed to look like a fish, yet this design is in my intention for the cloud has no intention.

If things are designed then there is a plan to them and if there is a plan then there is a goal. What then is the end goal implied in this?
 
pete666
#13 Posted : 12/7/2018 8:07:02 PM

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0_o wrote:
Yet if the world exists now, and someone if born and it still exists, then it existed before that person and it stands to reason it existed before I was born, and it existed before the first person existed.


What if this world is just a movie we have borrowed yesterday for 10 bucks, came home after work today and we are seeing/experiencing? What if it is just a projection to our senses pretending it is "real" and endless? What if we can't do any free movement or free thought, because everything is given, including our conviction we are free in our decisions? What if it suddenly switches off, we realize what we really are - an observer - and start thinking what was first, the mushroom we have experienced few minutes ago, the first ancient mushroom millions years ago or we as an observer? What if we realize that there is not such concept like a time in our current "reality" and we are unable to realize what "the first" means? What was first? The mushroom within the movie or the observer?

Yes, we can stay in our box of logic thinking, but every theory, even properly scientifically proven can turn into dust once we peek out of the box.

0_o wrote:
Observation doesn't create reality.
Schrodinger was mocking bad science with his cat, it was a joke.
The cat is dead or alive, the observation doesn't change that.
The point is that not knowing if the cat is alive doesn't mean it is or isn't.


I suppose we were talking about different observation. Sorry of my english, it is limited

However, in the light of above words, I think it is at least imaginable that it is possible that without observer there might be no reality. Of course, nobody knows how it is in fact. And who is declaring he knows, lives in a box.

0_o wrote:
If things are designed then there is a plan to them and if there is a plan then there is a goal. What then is the end goal implied in this?


Good question. The best answer I have been given is : to be

ps: I love mushrooms, there so much of a wisdom. I wish all people were blessed to touch it. Whatever reason they include psilocybine for and whatever reason they are here for, I am thankful for them in my deepest humbleness
Acceptance of the fact that our reality is not real doesn't in fact mean it is not real. It just leads to better understanding what real means.
 
Jambra
#14 Posted : 12/7/2018 8:10:16 PM

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Loveall wrote:

When I'm growimg mushrooms sometimes I ask myself, am I really growing the mushroom or is the mushroom making me grow it? Does it matter? I dont really know, but I end up just enjoying the beauty of the grow.


I think neither is in control, but instead that it is a symbiosis where we are both growing each other. Given this, I guess I find it easy to believe that the Psilocybin developed for the purpose of being eaten by other forms of life in order to accelerate the development of both species, ensuring a greater chance of survival.

I like the stoned ape theory, if that turns out to be the case, then we can kind of view our merging with mushrooms as being turned on, or at least completing the boot sequence, as when we got language that is when things really got real for us as a species. We won't see another boom like that until a general artificial intelligence is created, some people think we're not too far off.
 
Felnik
#15 Posted : 12/8/2018 5:07:43 AM

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There is a very weird thing that happens with mushrooms.
They seem to recruit certain people to grow them and you become literally friend of the mushroom.
This happened to me many years ago. After an early mushroom experience They hooked me in.
I became obsessed with learning how to grow them. I was driven by a strong desire to master the art of growing them. The funny thing is that a friend had the same thing happen to him recently.
We tripped together and he connected with the mushroom on such a deep level that he too became obsessed with learning to grow them. Like myself he did not stop until he succeeded in growing them.
Its a mysterious phenomenon that I would guess has been experienced by many other people.
Needless to say when this happens you become very good at growing them on an almost instinctive level.
Sometimes it can feel like they give you guidance and almost tell you what to do next in a grow.
Its a wild thing that has to be experienced to be believed.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Arthur C. Clarke


http://vimeo.com/32001208
 
Quetzal7
#16 Posted : 12/8/2018 9:39:35 AM

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Felnik wrote:
There is a very weird thing that happens with mushrooms.
They seem to recruit certain people to grow them and you become literally friend of the mushroom.
This happened to me many years ago. After an early mushroom experience They hooked me in.
I became obsessed with learning how to grow them. I was driven by a strong desire to master the art of growing them. The funny thing is that a friend had the same thing happen to him recently.
We tripped together and he connected with the mushroom on such a deep level that he too became obsessed with learning to grow them. Like myself he did not stop until he succeeded in growing them.
Its a mysterious phenomenon that I would guess has been experienced by many other people.
Needless to say when this happens you become very good at growing them on an almost instinctive level.
Sometimes it can feel like they give you guidance and almost tell you what to do next in a grow.
Its a wild thing that has to be experienced to be believed.


Same here. They took full control of my life. They used 90% of my cognitive activity to optimize their environment, to make sure they had all that they needed. My life, for 4 months, looked totally different. I would wake up at 6am every morning, like a dedicated servant. I was close to complete obsession. They were colonizing my consciousness better than any lover i ever had.
Then they came to my dream (as if waking life was not enough). I became mycelium. I was the network, the extanding being, integrating nutrients and transmutating them into a comunication system. I got weird dream, but never a dream when i became another life form before.
The reason they do all of this ? The best answer is : I don't know. They are the Mystery !

 
pete666
#17 Posted : 12/8/2018 1:03:42 PM

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Same here. And it is not just mushrooms...
Acceptance of the fact that our reality is not real doesn't in fact mean it is not real. It just leads to better understanding what real means.
 
0_o
#18 Posted : 12/8/2018 4:33:01 PM

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From all I have seen logic is the only thing that frees one from the box of magical thinking.
Otherwise people believe anything and yet understand nothing.
 
antares
#19 Posted : 12/8/2018 11:06:45 PM

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Xwolfgangx97 wrote:
Hey everyone, I was looking at the chem. Structure of Psilocin (the metabolite) and serotonin and was thinking "what is the purpose in this chemical in the mushroom." Is it just a means of defense from less evolved animals, as they would trip out and likely be eaten, or does the mushroom use the psilocybin as a means of cellular communication, similar to Serotonin in our neurons? Not much on google about this... sorry just got some dab today and im high as hell lmao



My speculation is that it has a signalling/ communication role in a similar manner to serotonin in animals. Given the similarity in structure and the well recognised role of serotonin and similar molecules in other organisms, in my reasoning, it is likely to have a broadly similar role rather than something radically different. Perhaps fungi haven't evolved re-uptake / recycling mechanisms like higher animals and after use, it is stashed away as a waste product in the fruiting body to decay and be removed from the mycelial network.

The entire mycelium is one organism that is growing, reproducing and dying in different areas at the same time there must be a lot of chemical communication going on between groups of cells to keep these processes going. Internal signalling and communication within plants and fungi is a very poorly studied and even less understood area.

Pretty straight thinking there even if you are highThumbs up.
 
Beatriz
#20 Posted : 12/9/2018 7:06:22 AM

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Permit me to be blunt. This is a lot simpler than you are making it.

Generally speaking, there are two reasons for something without a brain to secrete a chemical that acts as a neurotransmitter. It can be an attractant or a repellant. You can usually tell which is which by seeing where the chemical is expressed and what it causes the local animals to do.

Two examples: (1) nicotine is considered an anti-herbivory chemical in the tobacco plant. The whole plant produces it, and the bugs stay away. Humans enjoy its effects, but if we swallow our chewing tobacco, it can kill us too. (2) THC is produced exclusively in the flowers of the cannabis plant, and bees and other insects are shown to be attracted to it. Like nectar, the THC acts as payment for pollinators, and we love it too.

Which of these two cases does the mushroom resemble? The cannabis flower, of course! Mushrooms are fruiting bodies, serving the same function for the mycelial organism as a fruit serves for a plant. Their goal in life is to produce spores and encourage those spores to find their way to somewhere they can germinate effectively.

Where do P. cubensis mushrooms germinate best in the wild? In the dung of grazing animals like cows, who eat the mushrooms and give the spores a free ride to a perfect little environment. Fungi are metabolic cheapskates, and don't have many calories, so the best way to encourage cows to eat them is to provide a chemical incentive.

Almost all animals have similar neurotransmitters, especially our close mammalian relatives. The cows have clearly been getting high as balls for millions of years. The most successful mushrooms were the ones who gave Bessie the best elf-visions so she came back for a second helping.

Next time you enjoy mushrooms, thank aeons of evolution and the good taste of our ruminant friends for gardening up such a delicacy for us.

If you insist on adding a spacey or mystical overlay to this story, just imagine that these evolutionary hijinks are bound to be universal. Alien cows and alien bugs will almost certainly cook up some nice drugs for our sentient friends on other worlds.
 
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