A friend of mine has thought about a very simple extraction that possible could be the easiest and the fastest ever to produce DMT in a solution of vape oil.

Basically just do a standard A/B, use solvent to dissolve DMT in it, then salt the DMT out of the solvent with a vinegar solution, put the vinegar solution with the goodies on heat, let it evaporate to around 20ml, base it with some lye and then add some vape oil. Shake it for a while. The vape oil should theoretically absorb all the freebase DMT and then be usable for vaping. Assuming all went good you'd have instant DMT in vape oil ready to be smoked.

Anyone has ever done anything like this? Why bother freeze-precipitating the DMT first and then putting it into vape oil when you can do it directly?

EDIT: This will not work, PG and VG oils are very miscible with water.

something tells me you may end up vaping lye....
also this sounds like more steps, not less! freeze precipitation is super simple..

People bother because they want to inhale the least toxic vapour possible. That's the purpose of purifying dmt. Just depends on how much you care for your lung tissue. I'm sure you know sodium hydroxide destroys human tissue.

Leave aside the health issues for a moment. The next factor is which vape oil you use. VG and PG are miscible with water, so your extraction will not work well, if at all. Unless you were considering another vape oil??

Sorry to be judgemental, but this is a bad idea.

At least base with sodium carbonate on the penultimate step, if you're really thinking of trying this.

you don't have to worry about vaping lye, because hydroxyanions don't migrate into nonpolar solvents.

In theory yes, but the same should be valid for heptane too, right? How is then possible my heptane used for re-x had traces of lye within the residue after evaporation? The separation was done carefully, of coure. Isn't heptane (non-polar) very little miscible with water? If so, then lye goes throug too, no? Couldn't the same danger be of issue here?

Sorry, I am not a chemist, so maybe my conclusion is wrong

Your conclusion is right Pete.
All solvents are able to dissolve a small amount of water, some more than others. So a small amount of hydroxide would be carried across
This is the reason why the organic phase is always dried with a drying agent and filtered, before evaporation, in standard organic chemistry practice.

Back to the OP. The proposal is to use vape oil, which I can only assume is PG and/or VG, although I'm not an expert on vape oils. If using either of these, they are miscible with water. I'm not even sure if two phases would form. If it did form two phases, there would be a tonne of aqueous solution in the vape oil phase, including base.

This isn't a good idea, please don't do it.

It's okay, the reason I posted this here is safety itself so I'm very welcome to any answers. I was indeed thinking about VG. Is VG really slightly miscible with water? I thought polar and non-polar weren't soluble with each-other?

Would something like table salt force the VG not to mix with some of the water by increasing it's polarity? Do you know of any other vape oils that are more non-polar than VG?

Also what you just said is something that happens with every extraction, no? If I mixed heptane with my water solution of NaOH the haptane would dissolve some of the water with the NaOH and then during the freeze-precipitation it would come out with the crystals on the bottom? So by that logic these two methods would be just as dangerous? Unless VG/PG absorbs way more water than Heptane or Naptha does.




But wouldn't the usual tek do exactly the same, since heptane would also dissolve water with NaOH and at lower temperature in the freezer the water and the NaOH would precipitate with the crystals? I actually did always notice some water after a freeze-precipitation, could we all potentially be smoking lye without even knowing it?

A lot of you seem to be worried about me, don't, I won't do it unless I know for sure it's safe.

Here's some good research on the topic : http://www.nrcresearchpr.../pdfplus/10.1139/v73-599
Water seems to be soluble at 82 p.p.m in n-Heptane at 25C, but only 26 p.p.m in n-Heptane at 0C. And that was pure n-Heptane, they say that aromatics have higher values and I know for sure that the Heptane I used had aromatics in it(It's listed).


Either way it seems that all methods produce lye in DMT.

Also the boiling point of lye is at 1388 Celsius degrees and sodium carbonate at 1600 Celsius degrees, you're not going to be inhaling that at all?

I think what I'll do to avoid lye contamination on a normal A/B tek is to just run the heptane through water a few times, siphoning all of the water and some of the heptane with the goodies out.

The only problem now is that VG/PG is miscible with water, which means the whole vinegar/VG thing won't work at all. So I'll have to use something else or find some kind of a way to get the goodies out without freeze-precip, since that's currently not an option for me.

Interesting. I would really like to know whether and how much of lye goes through



Not really. I always salt - dmt by fumaric acid and mescaline by HCl. I like to stay on the safe side of the edge

Ahh I see, either way I have decided to do Q21Q21's method. It seems really good and it doesn't require freeze-precipitation. Since it also uses acid the lye will be easily neutralized as well.

the traces of lye are due to trace water being present. There are some ways of avoiding this: freeze the solution and pour off the nonpolar, or dry the nonpolar over sulfate salts (like epsom salt). I’d do both.
and Heptane isn’t miscible with water at all, it has no dipole moment.

Because of Van der Waals force water is very slightly miscible with Heptane. Look at the research I posted.

https://www.erowid.org/a.../solvent.miscibility.pdf

I stand corrected...0.0003%. negligible.
water participates primarily in electrostatic and h-bond interactions. use mol. seives or calcium/magnesium sulfate and call it a day.

I've analyzed xtals I recystallized, and saw no water cluster, which show up as a distinct peak @ M +18.

My idea of the fastest tek, uses physical methods (and equipment) to go from raw material to vapeable product, in less than an hour. sonicate, basify, extract, rotavap.

Yes I doubt it's that bad for the lungs either at 0.0003% which is practically nothing.
So your method is basically just evaporation of the solvent, why the sonicate though? Is it to break the DMT from the proteins in plant?

I'd love to have something like that, but currently evaporation of a solvent is an even bigger no-go than freeze-precip for me. I think Q21Q21's method of salting the DMT out of solvent into DMT-acetate and then a heat method to freebase it into jimjam goo would work good for fast extraction. The only thing I don't know is how to make changa out of that directly from DMT-infused vinegar solution.

the sonication is for cell lysis in acidic environment, first step of the process. achieved in 5-10 mins, depending on the power distribution.

As I am thinking about it, let me ask one question - why are you looking for the fastest extraction method? Why for the easiest? I don't get this concept, to be honest. I understand dmt as a tool and extraction as a ritual leading to the point where I will (hopefully) get the right tool for my purposes. Why should I shortcut the ritual?
Always, when I tried to speed up something with those entheogens, something went wrong. Maybe coincidence, but I wouldn't overlook this sign...
But as usual, I may be wrong

You may be wrong as usual, friend.

Not really an answer, but anyway, thanks.

Everyone who has reported on trying out the heat to freebase method has found it to yield poor results, and those who have persisted in vaporizing the results have reported it to be harsh on the lungs.

Not recommended.

I'm also interested in your answer to the question, why the need to speed up the extraction?

Also, VG is completely miscible with water. It is most assuredly a polar substance.


You will if it forms fine particulate matter, which is entirely feasible when applying strong heat or atomising in some carrier fluid.