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Using spices as alternative medicine, but at what doses? Options
 
AwesomeUsername
#1 Posted : 10/4/2018 8:12:56 PM

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Spices have been praised for their health benefits way before conventional medicine took over. They are quite potent in their effects and little doses have been known to cause side effects among people.

Given that essential oils, herbs, and spices in particular which are the main concern of this topic are not scientifically proven to treat, prevent or manage any diseases and illneses they still rank quite high on the ORAC scale and frankly avoiding them seems like it would cut off the body of some very important antioxidants which may or may not promote longevity and protect from free radicals caused by physical labour and polution which unlike smoking, drinking and doing drugs isn't quite possible to avoid in this day and age.

Not to mention, they do provide a unique flavor and aroma which in the right proportions would make any dish or beveradge stand out. What would be considered tasteless and boring could turn into something new and exciting.

On the web I haven't found a good answer regarding dosage and this is why I turn to the nexus for a possible answer. Amoung all of you psychonauts there has to be one or two health nuts over here.

Spices which I intend to use on a daily basis include:
-anise
-basil
-cinnamon
-chilli peppers
-cumin
-clove
-fenugreek
-pepper
-paprika
-turmeric
-ginger
-garlic
-nutmeg
-mustard seeds
-oregano

And also techincally not a spice but I would still be extra carefull with dosage: poppy seeds

Normally I love them, but having a wide spice collection has made me sometimes go overboard on one and too little with the other, which in turn has ruined some dishes and made me wonder if perhaps I had some adverse effects from them which I attributed to my previous bad habit choices.

I had my blood tested and while nutritionally is everything in tact, cholesterol in check, blood sugar is ok, thyroid is fine, but the doctor said something that confused me a bit and that was that I had a little amount of blood. Considering they take a certian amount of ml, it couldn't have been the quantity. Which made me think that either it meant I'm going overboard with turmeric, ginger or what not that reduces blood clotting or I was simply overhydrated. Worth to note my blood pressure is quite elavated, never getting bellow 120/70 and something and sometimes getting as high as 160/90+ resting. It can't be stimulant use, salt, oil, sugar, or any kind of additives or preservatives since I quit all of that.

Seeing that the diet now gets just better and better, I get plenty of exercise and movement, stress levels are managable, sleep could be better but that's been a life-long strougle dating back since todler years. The only thing left to fix would be the dosages of spices. Since I am not a alternative medicine expert, or an Indian (not to be racist, that's actually a compliment on your guys experience and whisdom) I do need some guidence in helping me achieve optimal health and a faster and more succesfull recovery.

I am open to additions or cut backs to my current regime as long as it stays fairly easily available and within a reasonable price range because at this point in life I can only make the best of what is easily incorporated, because I can't dedicate all my time and energy into this as much as I would like to.
 
 
Raptorrr
#2 Posted : 10/4/2018 9:16:15 PM

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AwesomeUsername wrote:
Spices have been praised for their health benefits way before conventional medicine took over. They are quite potent in their effects and little doses have been known to cause side effects among people.

Given that essential oils, herbs, and spices in particular which are the main concern of this topic are not scientifically proven to treat, prevent or manage any diseases and illneses they still rank quite high on the ORAC scale and frankly avoiding them seems like it would cut off the body of some very important antioxidants which may or may not promote longevity and protect from free radicals caused by physical labour and polution which unlike smoking, drinking and doing drugs isn't quite possible to avoid in this day and age.

Not to mention, they do provide a unique flavor and aroma which in the right proportions would make any dish or beveradge stand out. What would be considered tasteless and boring could turn into something new and exciting.

On the web I haven't found a good answer regarding dosage and this is why I turn to the nexus for a possible answer. Amoung all of you psychonauts there has to be one or two health nuts over here.

Spices which I intend to use on a daily basis include:
-anise
-basil
-cinnamon
-chilli peppers
-cumin
-clove
-fenugreek
-pepper
-paprika
-turmeric
-ginger
-garlic
-nutmeg
-mustard seeds
-oregano

And also techincally not a spice but I would still be extra carefull with dosage: poppy seeds

Normally I love them, but having a wide spice collection has made me sometimes go overboard on one and too little with the other, which in turn has ruined some dishes and made me wonder if perhaps I had some adverse effects from them which I attributed to my previous bad habit choices.

I had my blood tested and while nutritionally is everything in tact, cholesterol in check, blood sugar is ok, thyroid is fine, but the doctor said something that confused me a bit and that was that I had a little amount of blood. Considering they take a certian amount of ml, it couldn't have been the quantity. Which made me think that either it meant I'm going overboard with turmeric, ginger or what not that reduces blood clotting or I was simply overhydrated. Worth to note my blood pressure is quite elavated, never getting bellow 120/70 and something and sometimes getting as high as 160/90+ resting. It can't be stimulant use, salt, oil, sugar, or any kind of additives or preservatives since I quit all of that.

Seeing that the diet now gets just better and better, I get plenty of exercise and movement, stress levels are managable, sleep could be better but that's been a life-long strougle dating back since todler years. The only thing left to fix would be the dosages of spices. Since I am not a alternative medicine expert, or an Indian (not to be racist, that's actually a compliment on your guys experience and whisdom) I do need some guidence in helping me achieve optimal health and a faster and more succesfull recovery.

I am open to additions or cut backs to my current regime as long as it stays fairly easily available and within a reasonable price range because at this point in life I can only make the best of what is easily incorporated, because I can't dedicate all my time and energy into this as much as I would like to.


Did he mean you were low in red blood cells? Iron helps to form haemoglobin, perhaps you are low in iron?

I'm also not familiar with the benefits of every one of those spices however, turmeric taken with black pepper has proven health benefits so make sure to take the two of those together.

Cinnamon also helps regulate blood sugar iirc.
Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses - Plato

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear - George Orwell
 
dreamer042
#3 Posted : 10/4/2018 11:49:24 PM

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My advice would be to not worry too much about dosage as in weighing and dosing them by the gram or whatnot, but instead to learn to use them in recipes. Stick to the recipes the first few times and then experiment letting your taste buds and intuition guide you. Eating a tablespoon each of turmeric and black pepper isn't nearly as enjoyable as eating a nice curry, ya know?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

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downwardsfromzero
#4 Posted : 10/5/2018 9:25:09 PM

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Quote:
learn to use them in recipes

Entirely this. Have a look online or get hold of an Indian cookery book, and try some curry recipes out.
(There are even some nice-sounding curry recipes here, in this section the forum.)

Eventually you'll get a feel for how to use the spices. That's how I learnt, by following recipes - and without the internet.

[With the internet I learnt how to abuse spices which is neither advisable nor something I'd care to point you towards at this time.]
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality."
― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
 
justB612
#5 Posted : 10/8/2018 12:30:48 PM
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Hi mate

I do kinda have concerns, firstly, oils and salt are not unhealthy, oils are fats and they have essential stuff in them that you cut out and will risk long term illnesses and disorders. Fats are essential, carbs you may neglect in certain circumstances.

Same goes for salt, salt deficiency will go as far as cause anhedonia. Thinking that these things are unhealthy, and not regulating, will, in my opinion, cause more harm than good.


As for spices, their benefits are usually anti inflammatory, their strength and dose will vary on the persons medical condition (most serious illnesses like Alz, Diabetes, Autoimmune are linked to high inflammatory markers) and the body's ability to digest them (you need a good gut flora to digest a lot of stuff, new research links gut flora to all kinds of things and conditions)

The doses are tricky if you want to have a clear picture, I would definitely look onto supplementation of extracts for some of them (looking at curcumin especially, this one is notorious for having high levels of lead in them, and also low bioavailability, there are curcumin supplements out there which are purified from heavy metals, and are in a form that bioavailability even without pepper is very high)


As a last note, remember, a lot of immune responses that these substances activate, or that your own body activates, require enzymes, minerals, vitamins, and other essential nutrients. Make sure your diet is healthy in a level headed manner, if you do any extremes (like no salt/no oils) I would assume you put at least months in the research and you are following qualified scientists and researchers that prove those points with legit studies and mechanisms.


Other than these thoughts, I spot on agree with everyone else, learn to use them in recipes and you're golden Smile
empathy might be on the brink of extinction
 
Raptorrr
#6 Posted : 10/13/2018 12:27:50 AM

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justB612 wrote:
Hi mate

I do kinda have concerns, firstly, oils and salt are not unhealthy, oils are fats and they have essential stuff in them that you cut out and will risk long term illnesses and disorders. Fats are essential, carbs you may neglect in certain circumstances.

Same goes for salt, salt deficiency will go as far as cause anhedonia. Thinking that these things are unhealthy, and not regulating, will, in my opinion, cause more harm than good.


As for spices, their benefits are usually anti inflammatory, their strength and dose will vary on the persons medical condition (most serious illnesses like Alz, Diabetes, Autoimmune are linked to high inflammatory markers) and the body's ability to digest them (you need a good gut flora to digest a lot of stuff, new research links gut flora to all kinds of things and conditions)

The doses are tricky if you want to have a clear picture, I would definitely look onto supplementation of extracts for some of them (looking at curcumin especially, this one is notorious for having high levels of lead in them, and also low bioavailability, there are curcumin supplements out there which are purified from heavy metals, and are in a form that bioavailability even without pepper is very high)


As a last note, remember, a lot of immune responses that these substances activate, or that your own body activates, require enzymes, minerals, vitamins, and other essential nutrients. Make sure your diet is healthy in a level headed manner, if you do any extremes (like no salt/no oils) I would assume you put at least months in the research and you are following qualified scientists and researchers that prove those points with legit studies and mechanisms.


Other than these thoughts, I spot on agree with everyone else, learn to use them in recipes and you're golden Smile


It's becoming clearer and clearer that salt consumption is associated with high blood pressure - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6hVgCgRWbM

We do need sodium in out diet but many foods naturally contain sodium, you could use a small amount of salt in your food but in general, the amount of salt people put on their food these days is doing them no good.

In addition, I would argue that oil is not healthy for humans - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbtwwZP4Yfs (sources in the description)

Fats are needed of course, and it is better to get those fats as monounsaturated fats from nuts and the like.

What makes you think carbs may be neglected btw?
Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses - Plato

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear - George Orwell
 
justB612
#7 Posted : 10/14/2018 11:45:56 PM
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Let me be honest here, I feel a bit tired these days so my answers might take a bit more time.


I'm reading comments and conversations about these topics on a daily basis, I do spend 5-10 minutes a day reading and that does add up through the years. I DO still call this extreme, and I do still call these videos and methodologies cherry picking.

So long as there are no two sides of the story, or no underlying mechanisms explained, the study just sounds too fishy to me.


Olive oil, and black seed oil helped me tremendously in the past and are regarded almost as medicine with most of the people I've talked with.


A lot of co-factors play a role on how much salt (and electrolytes) you need. Exercise, water intake, heat stress, carb/fat ratio of calories to name a few.

So when I see people not explaining it in full context, and going out saying "salt raises blood pressure/salt is bad" I feel like they are cherry picking and/or want to prove a point and not provide a full understanding of these matters...


About the carbs, the ketogenic diet is a higly regarded diet when it comes to battling diabetes, alzheimers/epilepsy, autoimmune, and chronic inflammation. This is used by a number of nexians, I was on it for a time, and now (finally!!! in 201Cool we have clear animal studies that show a healthy ketogenic diet increasing lifespan.

It is still not at the point where we understand everything, and it definitely is not a diet for everyone, but I feel like the research is pretty solid and the mechanisms are pretty clear.


Also, the best conversations about diet are level headed and aim for the "you can usually eat everything in moderation" so when I see "oil is bad" I just turn my head to more open minded sources.

Please take no offense, this is just the information and perspective I have gathered throughout the years.

Most of my information you can find if you follow Dr Rhonda Patrick, but I warn you it will take more than 10 minutes. The videos are usually 30-180 minutes long.
empathy might be on the brink of extinction
 
dreamer042
#8 Posted : 10/15/2018 2:58:12 AM

Dreamoar

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+1 for Dr. Rhonda Patrick, one of the few people out there with enough depth of knowledge to address these topics factually and coherently. Thumbs up
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
 
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