Basically if someone is severely depressed & suicidal is it okay to take dmt? I took it when I was in such a state before and it helped me. It made me NOT want to kill myself. Is this a fluke or is it known to have this effect? Because I've been reading conflicting things about that. I read about a girl who wanted to commit suicide after her first breakthrough and another person said he wanted to attempt while he was still high. Does this vary depending on who's taking it? How can you ever know if it will increase or decrease your desire to die?

I don't think the body can ever want to die, quite the opposite actually. On the other hand, the mind might.

Mind and body are not seperated but they evolve on different scales. The mind can go extremely fast, change is enhanced, more evidently impermanent, as are the clouds in the sky. The mind can die many more times than the body. I have dealt with suicidal thoughts and I truly think it's "only" the mind seeking regeneration, a "new life". Rebirth.

Psychedelics enhance this impermanence, they enhance this cycle and eventually they rebirth. They kill you and regenerate you, they accentuate the movement even more. So yes, it might have this effect, but there is now way to predict how it will affect you precisly. It could just as well reduce you in ashes. It depends on how you approach the experience before hand, how you are swallowed by it and countless other variables relating to who you are (as well as what dose you take obviously!).

Though for anyone who has had transformative experience with those substance it can get easy to recommend, I wouldn't take any one side of the experience as a basis and definitly not treat suicide with it. Depressed people often are in this winter kinda zone, everything seems pointless, life is gone. Psychedelics can burst the flow of life in all of that, blossom some new spark, it can also make you even more sensitive and fuck you up. It's unpredictable and risky. You can lower the risk and the unpredictability but it will still be anchored into what those substances are.

NEVER ADMINISTER DMT TO ANYONE WHO IS SUICIDAL.

Get them professional psychological help, immediately - please do not trifle with this.


Good luck,

JBArk

I don't think you can say what will happen with any person in particular, but research does suggest that the classic psychedelics decrease suicide risk in general.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih...8497/pdf/nihms784728.pdf

NEVER ADMINISTER DMT TO ANYONE WHO IS SUICIDAL.

Get them professional psychological help, immediately - please do not trifle with this.


Good luck,

JBArk

original post edited to hopefully not sound as if I'm recommending anything to anyone.as per JBs response, do not conflate thispost with a suggestion to simply do psychedelics if you are suicidal. Thisis only my experience
In general, yes. Don't f!!! aroundwith this.

HOWEVER...
Suicidal ideation or general suicidality may be addressed with psychedelics yes. I am working on my own memoir of using powerful transformative psychedelic experience to catalyze recovery from major depression co-occurring with serious addiction. I feel that in my case, an experiential awareness of something greater than myself that at the same time i am an intrinsic part of, a knowledge not a belief, allowed me to gain the "higher power" referred to by Bill W in his creation of the twelve steps. While i passionately disagree with much of that program and the way it is run, this is something that had eluded me and that lack of belonging allowed me to be ultimately self destructive, being without connection in the world.

That said, the integration of that experience was probably the longest and hardest road i ever attempted to travel, with no signs or dividing lines, as the song goes. While the possibility of suicide was definitely diminished from my experimentation with intentional tripping, it was not fully erased.

My pathin the years since has finally led to a place of peace and fulfillment but it took a long time to get here and was fraught with pain, suffering, misguided steps and relapse.

I feel that a lot of the psychedelic movement is concerned with the betterment of wellness rather than actual healing. Although the word healing and medicine is used to refer to ceremony and substances, it is most often a nebulous termthat seems to have more connotations with new-ageism and seeking authority than anything else. It is also elitist, composed primarily of a racially and economically priveleleged group of white AmeroEuropean professionals.

In my state there is a potential bill in the works that sets up a new professional class of therapists licensed as the sole providers of psilocybin. This ensures that they and they alone will claim the ability to give this substance. The general thinking is that if it were generally legal that people would not have the innate ability to handle a psychedelic without intervention and guidance. Tell that to the 15 year old me who couldn't deal with school but could an eigth of shrooms just fine.

Although there are an increasing number of professionals flirting with ethical guidelines and their own licensure to provide so called integration services there are no established protocols and it seems primarily motivated to increases revenue flow for these people through the creation of an entirely new professional class who work in concert with questionable providers.

So where does this leave a person struggling with these deadly feelings who has worked to alleviate them to no avail through conventional methods and wishes to try this modality? Well, unless you're comfortable putting your well being into the hands of one of these practitioners, let's hope that you are a powerfully strong minded, willful, wise and intelligent person. It takes a lot of work to put all those pieces back together when you've blown your self apart. The risk of ending up worse than you started is simply to great. I personally do not feel that anything other than a total dissolution of self within a peak experience would be helpful and that could be simply to much to handle. I'm more lucky than any of those qualities i listed to come out on top. And my integration path from one experience currently sits at six years and counting so it's not a quick easy fix.

At the risk of sounding contradictory, if you are going to attempt this, my advice to you would be to find a therapist or at least someone you deeply trust to discuss your intention and to talk about it afterwards. I just disagree with the setting up of a out of reach process for betterment that can't be accessed by people on the fringes of society or marginalized populations that arguably need the most healing and have the greatest potential forincreased social contribution. I do not disagree with the concept of talk therapy however, it was an integral part of my process that has allowed greater rapidity of gain in it. If you have private or state insurance this could be possible without a out of pocket expense.

If you are suicidal, don't try to go it alone, join a support group perhapsto see that you aren't so alone. Volunteer to help someone with less than you. Get out of you.

If you do take the psychedelic route, continue to research. Personally i do not feel that n,n DMT is a good candidate. It tends to be loud, bright and confounding. You may come out of breakthrough more traumatized and most likely more confused. The substance to catalyze recovery is 5meoDMT because of its ability to replicate an NDE almost perfectly according to literature on that subject. The experience with death allowed and letting go granted me peace and understanding in a way i could never extricate from a DMT trip.

And if you are intent on doing this, be a part of this community, this is where i learned to integrate.

Above all, peace and be good to you. I hate to use such a cliche at the risk of sounding trite, but IT DOES GET BETTER!

If it worked for you, that truly is great. It is a VERY different thing to recommend that route to someone else though. And unless you are a professional and are overseeing the psychedelic therapy in that official capacity, in a proper therapeutic setting and conditions and with follow up and proper supervision, it is downright irresponsible.

There is tremendous potential in all these substances - much of which we have yet to discover, I believe. Including treatment of severe depression and anxiety, but it is the policy of this site (and wise to boot) to strongly discourage "internet" based medical advice, particularly in cases of life or death, and to discourage questions seeking such advice.

OP - please search out trained professional help for your friend.

Respectfully,

JBArk

I did not mean for that to sound like recommendation. No I am in no way a med professional. I am only offering my experience and opinion. I don't see in my post (which was edited with another paragraph in the five seconds you took to respond to it, JB) where i suggest to op to take that route, only offering advice from my personal experience should they do so.

I would argue that withholding such information would be more harmful. I will not delete my post but if you feel otherwise, and that it is truly harmful, be my guest.

null24,

Your post was not recommending it, I know. I was just reiterating the stance of this site, unequivocally.

I meant no offence either - I did read all of your post, and I apologize for making it sound like I was referring to you when I wrote: "And unless you are a professional and are overseeing the psychedelic therapy in that official capacity, in a proper therapeutic setting and conditions and with follow up and proper supervision, it is downright irresponsible."

I meant it in the general sense, but I can see how that may have appeared and how you may have taken offence.

I do feel very strongly about this, and would certainly no longer be a member here if their policy were not what it is.

JBArk

I ise high dosage of vaped dmt when I want to kill my self! Then I die and see if its something for me... ans usually when I come back to life Im so happy to be alive so...

When I was 24 about five years ago when I had my breakthrough. I had been living a bit like I'm living now where I had tapped out of society. This feeling that I can't get far enough away from everyone else. I don't like feeling this way and I don't want to feel this way but I think it's connected to my childhood abuse. When I was abused is when I learned deeply not to trust others, which turned into isolation and snowballed from there into just deeper isolation from all people. When the opportunity had come up to do dmt I really pursued it.

No matter what I had read after I had that break through I truly believed I had died and I was in the afterlife and I was in Hell in particular. I knew you couldn't die from it but it was such a deep break through that all of that understanding that I can't OD went out the window. I was so blown away by the vividness of Hell.

From that point on it was like I was on a epic hero's journey to stay alive in in Hell, and it took the help of many minds to make it to this Library. In the Library was all the knowledge of every human, plant, and animal that had ever lived on earth. As I 'read' each book it was like I was downloading the knowledge of their entire life and living it for myself each time. Each time forgetting I was just reading and thinking I was that person/creature and living their whole life from start to finish, millions and millions of times. When I came back each time I wanted to live another life, be another being, even being everyone I knew... When I was done reading everything I felt so old and incredible like I understood everything. Why there was pain and suffering on earth. Why it was necessary for us. I didn't feel like me but I felt like a combined consciousness of everyone I had been. It seemed like I had been there eons. I could see how everything connected down to even the smallest molecules. Everything.

Jesus and Satan were there in the Library but they weren't at odds with each other they were almost like long lost lovers. I was no longer me I was the combined knowledge of all beings on earth and I (we) started to look at the demons/angels and realize that there is even more outside of these lives on earth. Finally at this point I was sent back to my body, but as I was going back I was pulled from all this understanding and told how important that it is that I'm me now. With all my flaws, everything, how everything is meant to be. It was mindblowing as I 'woke up' from the break through I was crying with this realization. BTW the crying wasn't sad it was beautiful.

Now that it's been so many years since that breakthrough it's like the memory gets stronger and weaker at the same time. On one hand I KNOW what happened to me. I even wrote down everything I remembered while I was still crying. It was a lot at the time and I might post the full version here sometime. It was so real and vivid.

On the other hand it's like there is this other side of myself the depression side telling me there is no truth to what happened in the trip, that my mind only showed me what I wanted to believe deep down; that humans aren't deeply magically connected, that we are actually chaotic terrible creatures that take advantage of each other and that the ones who are taken advantage of are just that weaker and meant to die out. There's more to that voice/side of myself, I could go on but I think anyone reading get's the point.

What the dmt told me right before I was sent back was the opposite though. It told me this life is meant to be, even with the suffering. It also told me when you care for and nurture yourself you are by extension helping everything because of how closely connected everything is.

This is getting hard to type about but basically I want to do it again to confirm what happened but this time I am much more scared of it. The first time because I was suicidal I figured anything could happen and it would be okay with me, I feel like maybe that's why such a deep impactful breakthrough happened...(?) This time around I feel desperate for that bit of truth & connectedness I felt the first time.

Someone who is contemplating suicide is not well (obviously) and could have a thought pattern very far from rationality about life and death, especially their own. Giving them DMT could fuel the negativity even more because of this. But, it could also help them! It has helped me in many ways. But I would say it's a gamble, a very dangerous gamble. What if this person meet some sinister characters on the other side? I have a few times.

No, one should be fairly healthy mentally before trying DMT, or at least try it in a controlled environment with professionals helping out afterwards, don't think that's available yet...

I don't think this is a joke, Eaglepath. Some of us take these issues very seriously and have struggled with similar things throughout life. Even if this happened to be a troll thread, these life and death issues should never be shrugged off, pushed to the side, or treated like they are something insignificant.

Smoking/vaping DMT lasts about ten minutes. True death is permanent. Let's stop pretending like they are the same thing, especially in a thread where someone is, or has been contemplating the utilization of psychedelics to help move past thoughts of suicide. Please have some respect and compassion for people who are struggling just to get through each day.

I've been surrounded by a lot of death in my lifetime, including my cousin's suicide, so these issues hit home especially hard for me. We should be focused on helping these people, not offering up off-handed hippy statements. DMT is not some "cure-all" substance (or even a band-aid) so saying things like "I use high doses of vaped DMT when I want to kill myself...then I die and see if its something for me..." is in extremely poor taste in this situation, imo. Psychedelics are not a quick fix, they are tools that can hurt someone just as much as they could potentially benefit someone else.

Lastly, I would like to echo what AikyO said here:

Were you referring to me? I wasn't offering medical advice either. I think you are assuming the person in question hasn't already seen a professional, or can afford a professional. For the record research is fairly clear that current professional advice and professional medication leaves a lot to be desired, both with respect to effectiveness and side effects.

In the paper I linked it was illicit psychedelic use that led to a >30% reduction in past year suicide attempts. I would agree that set, setting, follow-up etc all make things more ideal, but considering these drugs are illegal, ideal probably isn't going to happen. So should they see a professional, sure. Are the odds of it helping better than the odds of DMT helping? That's a good question.

Man oh man... deep stuff here. It is terrible to even think that DMT will somehow cure depression. So far from the truth. It takes a deep commitment to alleviate the symptoms of depression. Depression can last for years and widely varies in severity and reasons why it occurs in someone's life. There is no cure all! Period. What works for someone, may in fact push someone else over the edge. It is impossible to know how someone will react to many therapies, medications and psychedelics.

Professional help is the first step. Go and seek help if you are feeling suicidal. Call the suicide prevention lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 or visit their website at https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/. Talk to someone. Reach out and ask for help! It is the first step in taking a positive stance towards depression. It is very healthy to ask for help!

Do not take psychedelics if you are feeling depressed. It could make things very much worse than they are. Don't assume that they will help you even if someone else has stated that it has helped them. Go to a doctor, talk to a friend, talk to a family member, read self-help books, go to a shaman or priest or rabbi. Go to anyone that you can reach out to. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. You can heal yourself from depression! It takes time and it is hard! It is within your reach but you have to commit to it. Start telling yourself that you are worth it. Start telling yourself "I love you!, I am worth seeking help! I will not allow myself to be tormented by this any longer.".

Please be gentle with yourself and the rest of the world. My heart goes out to anyone who suffers with depression! The world needs you in it! You are here for a reason and your life is precious!


Take care please!

Im not joking.. I think the way your address what I wrote are extremely disrespectful! you do not know anything about me and You should apologize!
Im talking about and sharing my own experience when I was suicidal.. This is far from a joke! And who are you?!?!?! and what do you know about these substances and my experience with them? The way you are talking about them it seems like you have been missing something.. here you are telling what they are and not what they are.. again.. who are you to determine this?!?!?!

Changa/DMT and Ayahuasca helped me and cured me from my suicidal time! Completly! Enough said!

Dont go and see a proffessional monkey! They cant help other monkeys.. Only proffessional plants can help monkeys..

Well, your first post sounded like a joke to me also. Maybe it wasn’t meant as one. This last post though, is irresponsible advice, and whether or not you agree with me or not is of no consequence - it is not in line with what we believe at the nexus, and actually against forum rules to be giving advice like this.

Please read the forum rules again.

JBArk

This should be a template we use. Well done DMN.