oral phalaris ingestion in combination with MAOI Options
#1 Posted : 4/23/2018 6:28:50 PM

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since I will be a newbee in this forum forever, I will never be able to send personal messages or post in the right forums so I try it here.


I read somewhere in a thread that there was a time where you wanted to concentrate on oral ingestion of phalaris in combination of mao inhibiting plants like peganum harmala.

do you like to tell about your experiences regarding your exoperiences? I only found one post about low phalaris dosage in a brew with other dmt containg plants from you which not really said so much!

I know about gramine, the wild alkaloid mix in phalaris and the dangers of combining 5-Meo-DMT with MAOIs.

I just thought there might be some experience worth to share which wasnt told yet, good or bad doesnt matter.

maybe others have experience too?

would be awesome!

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
#2 Posted : 4/23/2018 6:42:21 PM


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There was a good bit of this experimentation back in the Entheogen Review daze. Johnny Appleseed swore by taking the Turkey Red variety orally with syrian rue.

I'll attach some articles for you when I get home this evening. Thumbs up
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
#3 Posted : 4/23/2018 6:46:46 PM

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Those pioneers of the good old times!

That would be awesome! Thank you! Thumbs up

dreamer042 wrote:
There was a good bit of this experimentation back in the Entheogen Review daze. Johnny Appleseed swore by taking the Turkey Red variety orally with syrian rue.

I'll attach some articles for you when I get home this evening. Thumbs up

#4 Posted : 4/23/2018 8:51:19 PM

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by Johnny Appleseed
Two strains of Phalaris
arundinacea, "Yugoslavian
fresh- cut" and "Turkey Red,"
were bio-assayed as ayahuasca
analogs. Each variety was
harvested in late September,
1992, after being cultivated
as described in the Vernal
Equinox, 1993 issue of The
Entheogen Review. Foliage was
clipped three inches above
ground level in the early
morning (about 8:00 AM), and
alkaloids extracted by the hot
water method. The
Beta-carbolines used as MAOis
were extracted from Peganum
harmala seeds. One trial
(November 28, 1992), was made
with Desmanthus leptolobus in
place of the Phalaris extract.
All dosages were 50 mg
total Phalaris alkaloids, and
125 mg of harmala alkaloids,
except where noted. Harmala
extracts were ingested first,
with capsules pulled apart
before swallowing. Phalaris
alkaloids were taken fifteen
minutes later, with the gummy
extraction redissolved in just
enough ethyl alcohol to put it
into solution. This was then
added to enough honey, hot
water and vitamin C to make a
tea solution to maximize
absorbtion in the gut.

Effects -~ Single Trials:

October 15, 1992 -- Turkey Red
(30 mg) plus P. harmala. Very
subtle and spacy, feeling of
leaving the body. Some nausea
after about two hours. Down
in three and a half hours. I
feel very healed. Not quite a
full dose.

November 1, 1992 -- Turkey Red
(40 mg) plus P. harmala. More
nausea, but spitting and lying
down helped. Informationabout
the plants comes, and the
name: "Turkey Red. " Down in
about four hours, awake for
six hours, want to talk.

November 28, 1992

Desmanthus leptolobus (45 mg)
plus P. harmala. Bad
heartburn at first, then very
visionary: the images of bulls
breaking their way into my
skull and trying to
communicate with me.
Afterwards walking around and
praying for the native people
of Australia. Very cold,
wanted cuddling. Lasted about
four hours.

December 9, 1992
Yugoslavian fresh cut (50 mg)
plus P. harmala. Took it when
tired and distracted. Not
visionary; went to sleep after
an hour. Next day felt highly
aware and strong in my body.
This continued for several

Group Sessions

November 14, 1992 Turkey
Red, plus P. harmala. Six
people. Within twenty minutes
T began very violent purging,
which continued for two and a
half hours. He was in a
highly visionary state, but
seemed agitated and fearful.
I sat very strongly and after
thirty minutes began to sing
and chant. This continued on
and off throughout the
session. I did healing work
with the rattle as needed. L
kept to herself at first, but
then began to interact with T
and do healing work with him.
At one point she was
extracting from him and
purging. She said later that
after this she had a complex
visionary sequence of
exploring an otherworldly
landscape. A was very active,
singing with me part of the
time and other times alone
outside. We spent some time
communing together with heads
touching. At one point A, L
and I generated a tone-song
that could have built into a
very dynamic group visionary
experience if T's distress had
not been so distracting. We
three stayed strongly
connected through visual
contact. J stayed quiet and
withdrawn, stating later that
he did have some visionary
states, but only when he could
be alone and quiet. About six

November 16, 1992 -- Turkey
Red plus P. harmala. A and
myself. Took a normal dose,
and then another full dose at
about the second hour when it
started to peak. Began at
9:00 AM and lasted until
Midnight. Many experiences,
both connected to A and by
myself. Did a lot of praying
and asking for help from the
Grandfathers. Took a booster
of harmala extract in the
afternoon, which seemed

December 15, 1992 -- Turkey
Red, plus P. harmala. Six
people. · Began by sitting in
the configuration shown in L,.( s
dream. I sat back to back
with her, with A, N, M, and s
sitting in the four
directions. After about
thirty minutes L started to
rock, chant and then repeat:
"I remember, I remember. " She
went into a healing crisis and
began purging a lot. Later
she said she journeyed back
through her DNA and remembered
encoded memories all the way
back to the primal ocean. She
was very sick the whole night -- it reminded me of my first
jungle ayahuasca. She was in
a healing crisis for almost a
whole week afterwards. A and
I began shamanizing. A sang
and chanted to project sounds
into L' s body. I remained
seated and chanted support to
A's work. At one point I did
some sucking, extraction and
purging for L, and at times
would try to challenge and
connect with her, but she
wanted no one to touch her.
The grass rattle worked well.
M, s and N stayed to
themselves and rather quiet.
About six hours.

Summary: The experience seems
to have an inner visionary and
informational focus when taken
quietly alone in the dark. On
the other hand, taking it in a
group setting with people one
knows and trusts facilitates a
shamanic, healing experience
while enhancing interpersonal
bonds and connections. One
individual often goes into a
healing crisis, and many of
the rest of the group then
begin shamanic work. At some
point this is resolved, and
then everyone tends to enter
deeper physical and mental
space with each other. The
resulting energetic
connections seem to be a part
of the healing process. The
fine light vibrations of the
experience often last almost a
week. I feel better physically
than after mushrooms - strengthened
rather than wiped-out.
#5 Posted : 4/23/2018 9:13:59 PM

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some more from ER:


I swallowed approx. 1
gram of Peganum
harmala extract in three
capsules. One hour later
I took 1 teaspoonful of
fresh-squeezed juice
from Phalaris
arundinacea (var.
Turkey Red). Three
hours later the strong
effects began (until then
only mild plus-1 and
plus-2 symptoms were
noted). The experience
rapidly grew to plus-3, lasted about two hours, then
subsided. The trip was extremely uncomfortable, with
constant diarrhea, weakness, dizziness, and mild
nausea. The "psychedelic" effects were without
colors, insights or euphoria, but with a characteristic
"tryptamine buzz" and overtones of nameless anxiety.
Very weak, I lay on the bathroom floor, not wanting to
be far from the toilet, since the recurrent diarrhea was
intense. The word intoxication kept running through
my mind -- I was experiencing something "toxic" for
sure! Others have taken this combination without
such negative symptoms, so I suspect that everyone
may respond to it in their own way. I was amazed
how only one teaspoonful of juice could be so potent
and was glad that I hadn't ingested more: the trip took
so long to come on, I thought perhaps I hadn't taken
enough. Don't be fooled by that! - JG, CA

A P. harmala extract quantity corresponding to 4.5 g
of seeds was first ingested on an empty stomach; the
(Phalaris) extract supposed to correspond to 40 mg of
indole alkaloids, but probably greater for at least a
factor 5, and equivalent to about 400 g of.fresh
Phalaris aquatica was ingested 20 minutes later. A
first peak, clearly entheogenic but fully controllable,
became evident about 30 minutes later, followed by an
apparent sensation of diminishing effects. In this first
phase neither nausea nor any other physical symptoms
or feeling to be intoxicated appeared. One hour and a
half after the ingestion of P. aquatica the effects
quickly became acute again leading, for one of us, to
a complete loss of consciousness 40 minutes later ...
"Ayahuasca-like" effects obtained with Italian plants--
by Francesco Festi and Giorgio Samorini -- Communiction
presented at the II International Congress for
the Study of the modified States of Consciousness, 3-7
Oct. 1994, Lleida (Espana)

I tried the combination of Peganum harmala (Syrian
rue) and Phalaris aquatica (Harding grass, a "special
strain" from Of the Jungle) recently on an excursion to
the Nevada desert. 300 gm dried Phalaris material
(stem leaves and inflorescence) was ground in a coffee
grinder and placed in a plastic bottle. I did the same
with 100 gm harmala seeds. To extract the alkaloids I
made a tea of the combination of both ground
materials and added the juice of 4 limes and water to
make 500 ml. This was simmered for about an hour,
then filtered through a coffee filter. I poured 250 m1 of
vodka over this with the intention of improving the
extraction, since my last try was fruitless. I drank half
of the resulting tea.
Perception of the world began to change in about 20
minutes. My vision seemed not to catch up with my
eye movements. This resulted in a blurring and
impressionist-like view of reality. I also became
apprehensive about losing control of my body. I
became more and more sedated, but this was not
sleepiness. Eventually I lost much physical control and
speech was impossible. I lay in a tent for the next six
hours. I was able to get up to drink water and urinate,
but it was very difficult. I felt like a zombie -- my body
was numb, but my mind wouldn't slow down. My
thoughts obsessed on the loss of my autonomic
functions, such as breathing and heartbeat and how it
would be for my friends to find me dead there in the
desert. I had the life-before-my-eyes feeling and was
able to see myself from other people's perspectives.
This was somewhat like what is described as an out of
body or near death experience, but I was quite aware
that I was experiencing this in my head while my body
lay in a lump on the floor of the tent. There was none
of the peace that is described with these experiences.
Thoughts went through my head with abandon: I had
lost the filtering and organizing ability of ordinary
consciousness. It was as if the dream state was
functioning while the critical mind watched.
Occasionally, these thoughts led to sexual desire
without physical arousal. I fell asleep after about six
hours. When I awoke the effects had worn off
completely. This feeling of regaining my body and
consciousness was better than nearly any feeling I've
ever had! I wonder if others have had this experience.
Was it the result of set and setting or the inappropriate
dosage of materials? I'm especially curious if P.
harmala was the main culprit here, since the dosage
as a MAO! was probably 20 times more than
necessary. I'm also curious about the alkaloids present
in Harding grass. I'm very apprehensive to try this
again, even with careful measurement. Any thoughts
about this? - SR, UT

An experiment with a Phalaris brachystachys variety
from Greece was a success. This was my first fi.dl-on
Phalaris ayahuasca experience, and one I will
certainly not forget. In fact, it was a solid two hours of
meltdown intensity similar to smoking 5-MeO. I
estimated my dosage based upon a TLC test that
showed a large alkaloid spot with the same position
and color reaction as Psychotria viridis. I later
learned from my experience that TLC testing can be
inaccurate when dealing with closely related
compounds such as 5-MeO and DMT. After a 24 hour
fast I took 150 mg of Peganum harmala extract in a
concentrate of fresh ginger root tea (ginger root is one
of the best herbs for nausea and stomach distress.)
After waiting 25 minutes I took 150 mg of Phalaris
extract with some vitamin C and washed it down with
more ginger tea. About an hour later I found myself
riding a tidal wave toward infinity. The first stages of
this wave were absolutely invigorating, but it soon
transformed into a more serious endeavor as I found
myself suspended at ground zero. The only thing I
could do was breathe ... It seemed like a definite blend
of the tryptamines, with the power of the 5-MeO being
the dominant force. The familiar 5-MeO blast was
splashed with the brilliant colors ofDMT. Finally as
the 5-MeO tapered down (a welcome relief) colorful
visual trails remained for another half hour or so. It
was amazingly clear and I did not experience any
nausea, stomach distress or other somatic symptoms. It
was quite the opposite: I felt physically healed during
and especially after the experience. The term
"energetic medicine" carne to mind. The vibrational
effects are quite amazing and I liked the afterglow
much better than the trip itself, at least at this high
dosage level. I would say that this particular strain of
Phalaris is probably best appreciated in smaller doses.

I have just had the most peaceful experience with ayahuasca
made from Phalaris aquatica. Coming on it
felt like mushrooms, but to the end there was no overwhelming
power, no big experience, only a pure healing
medicine. Perfect control, no fear, pleasurably
heightened senses. I thought: "tl1is is the real ecstasy."
There was continuous contact with reality: outdoor
noises seemed normal. What a tragedy for the world
that such a drug is not legal.
Directions: Phalaris aquatica Italian strain AQ-1
from Of The Jungle, dried blades shredded in coffee
grinder, three and one half level tablespoons in milk
shake, half an hour after one level teaspoon of processed
Peganum harmala seeds. The fresh blades
leave a tart reddish resin on the scissors. They do not
dry crisp, but a coffee grinder/blender with sharp
blades will sufficiently powder them. After half an
hour I could feel it corning on. It peaked at one hour,
with time slowing. By one hour and forty-five minutes
it was over. I could use a whole lawn of this. Here in
Miami it does not grow outdoors, but it is doing very
good indoors in a sunny window. - The Gnostic, FL

EH, of MA made an ayahuasca brew using 30 gm
of fresh P. brachystachys (grown from JLF seeds) and
5 gm Peganum harmala seeds. It came on within two
hours and was pleasant for about an hour, but soon became
extremely intense, with continuous diarrhea and
vomiting, left side ofbody numb, racing thoughts,
anxiety, etc. This went on for 36 hours! After coming
down, some pleasant visuals returned to cycle in and
out over a period of two days: "It even woke me out of
sound sleep with strong sounds of weird things. I've
never experienced this before, never wish to again.
Either I'm very sensitive or this strain was kick ass."
#6 Posted : 4/23/2018 10:35:50 PM


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Oh nice, I didn't know the entire collection was on archive, though in retrospect I probably should have. Looks like you beat me to it. Thumbs up
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
#7 Posted : 4/23/2018 11:27:53 PM

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I once discovered the collection but forgot about it. So much information in it.
I thought I could have a look by myself. Thanks for reminding me!

I am not sure if i got all reports but should be the most.
Some frightening experience are there too.
#8 Posted : 5/16/2020 11:25:39 PM

"Only when you are nothing can you be everything" Matus

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I often see warnings about taking phalaris with syfian rue, and that is likely a good rule but I had the most useful entheogenic experience of my life combining turkey red and rue. Using around an ounce of dried leaves collected over a few months maybe, always cutting regrowth that was stressed by lack of water till it wilted and leaf tips dried, then putting in dark space for several days followed by fertilizer and love,affection and telling the plant what my intention was with it.

Took a self made extract of rue we harvested in the wild and communicated our intent to this plant out loud as well. The rue was taken half an hour before a tea of the phalaris leaves with lemon juice. Using the amount I did I figured I was in for a mild experience. This was anything but mild! It felt at first like how mushrooms come on but very quickly became the most intense experience I have EVER had by a very large margin.( I've had experience of many psychedelics many times) BLINDED by White raging fractal distortion, eyes open or closed, I was not aware of my body at all during a lot of this but when I was I 'woke up' in the fetal position on the floor. I was blasted by views of my actions that hurt others from their perspective, blasted by all the lies I ever believed and was shown the truth behind those and the intentions of what feeds humanity those lies. A lot of these realizations were coupled with physical pain from showing the length of time I'd believed them and the effect they had on my life in infinitely minute details. This pain was quickly changed to orgasmic ecstasy on seeing the truth of each instance. Many times felt a extremely intense physical sensation like one feels sticking a finger in the electric socket, the body sensations were in my mind what one must feel on actually dying and several times I was convinced I had seriously poisoned myself and was dying. There was absolutely no way for me to intervene in the process if I wanted to, nothing was recognizable with eyes open and no control over body movement so there was a kind of forced surrender to the intensity and that surrender changed the experience markedly.
What was extremely ecstatic coming out of this was the fact a completely overwhelmingly intense experience could be had from !!!G R A S S!!!
The grass on God's lawn, power beyond imagining hidden in plain sight! The irony of this!!
I just ordered turkey red seeds and plan on slowly and carefully testing this again. I will post more on this as I go
#9 Posted : 5/23/2020 8:32:58 PM

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Hi OmniSlug. Thanks for sharing your experience!

For healing purposes, as seems to be yours, I believe the oral route to be the best way. The practice of drinking rue with admixture plants is central to my life and I am exploring the grass now listening to a strong call. I log my experiences and discoveries here:

I was blown away with a certain strain of wild aquatica recently, though it was mostly cosmic bliss/ecstasy as opposed to diving into the darkness like your experience.

Oral Phalaris with rue is quite a virgin territory with very little knowledge we have at hand. Some strains of Phalaris give dangerous physical reactions of increased blood pressure and heart rate, and hordenine, n-methyl-tyramine, and 5-MeO-DMT all are said to have these risks with maoi, however in which dosage range, it is not clear. With my latest aquatica experience, I saw that 5-MeO-DMT was clearly there but I experienced no side effects. The Turkey Red arundinacea strain is said to be mainly 5-MeO-DMT and you did not mention any dangerous feeling physical reactions at that high dose. There is one death report of someone ingesting 200mg of 5-MeO-DMT with ayahuasca. I am guessing even 10mg (perhaps even lower) would be uncomfortable or dangerous. I am guessing that I had ingested at most 5mg, perhaps much less in my last experience, and it was (positively) powerful already.

Let's be careful, show these powerful medicines the respect they deserve, and bring them to their rightful place in the sacred pharmacopoeia of humanity.

Thank you so much for your calling and your work, dear Phalaris brother.

Great that you harvest your rue from the wild. Where do you live?

P.S. It really is magical that humble grass carries this power...

P.S. 2: I actually live in Turkey - the country where Turkey Red originated from - but have not started exploring arundinacea yet.
#10 Posted : 5/24/2020 8:53:18 AM

"Only when you are nothing can you be everything" Matus

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I live at the northwest most point of Oregon now but I lived in New Mexico for several years where I collected the rue. I didn't find this experience like diving into thedarkness at all, it was by far the most therapeutic experience of my entire life by far! There were moments of extreme ecstasy for sure, definitely some real terror as well. I didn't have any purging or awful physical symptoms other than my body feeling like I was being electrocuted, I was going off the entheogen review/Johnny Appleseed info and hadn't heard of anyone having really bad physical distress from the combination.

I'm trying to find this same strain now,I'd have to agree with Johnny Appleseed, this combination is the best entheogen! I ordered some seeds from Australia, they say it's the same one mentioned by trout etc. What I had back then was most definitely that strain, crossing my fingers and praying it's the sameRolling eyes

I'd really love to go back there, ive even flirted with the idea of getting a toad.... But I'd much rather just have the real Turkey Red or other phalaris that produces as much 5MEO.
#11 Posted : 5/24/2020 9:37:12 PM

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Facing your own shortcomings was what I meant by diving into the darkness.

Don't overlook the rue, it has a central part in the experience and healing. Even if you find the same grass, with a different rue it might be a different experience. Especially that you collected it from new Mexico brings a possibility that it is unique or special.

Also, your experience might have been amazing, but I doubt Appleseed tried all phalaris, let alone all entheogens.

Do you know the actual percentages of alkaloids in Turkey Red? I could not come by this information.

Good luck with your healing journey and keep us updated 💚
#12 Posted : 5/26/2020 1:17:39 AM

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Just the posted percentages which I believe were around 0.43 but I might be wrong. I have experimenting with the rue many times, by itself it's never been even remotely that intense. New Mexico is definitely a magic place, we lived in the mountains in tents for a year and a half and took mhrb with rue at least a dozen times up there, none of those were remotely as intense. I truly pray the grass i get is the same I grew. Feeling it's time to have a go with it again , had a kind of flashback last night from my last experience and it actually scared me a little how strong the feelings were. Spent the day petting and examining my grass is a remarkable being
#13 Posted : 5/26/2020 9:04:52 AM

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Sure, the grass may get the crown for intensity. what I meant was about the quality of the experience of th grass in synergy with the specific rue. I assume it is not sheer intensity that you are seeking, that you actually appreciate meaningful healing experiences.
#14 Posted : 5/31/2020 8:21:06 PM

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Yes very much agree. I've found that 5MEO is by far the most therapeutic and my most recent efforts have been in finding and growing varieties of known phalaris producers of it. I am also interested in hearing about anyone's experience with the grass without rue. Since5meo is orally active I'd love to hear about it. I plan on trying it the next time I juice the grass I just divided into four new pottings. It's apparently turkey red but I'm not sure about this yet. Will post how this goes.

On another topic I'd really like to get promoted. This is a new profile only because my last one I couldn't get into no matter what I tried, that one I had for like10 years in the past. There are MANY topics I really want to be a part of but can't yet. Can anyone help with this?
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