When i throw up it doesn't stop anything, it just calms things down, relieves the stomach/physical discomfort as well as the psychological discomfort. Plus i'm really experienced with this stuff and after a bit of experience you gain a good bit of control and can handle things a lot better, but the experience is still as full on as ever. Though if you purge too soon/early you can throw back up some of the dose most likely, has happened to me a quite a few times due to the heavy Harmala dosages. Also it's good to keep in mind the more regularly you consume/work with the Harmalas/Rue/Caapi, you can handle heavier dosages a lot more easily and you're no longer pinned to the floor, because as the Harmala reverse tolerance builds up the nausea/vomiting/diarrhea goes away, the body load cleans up and the motor function impairment is reduced. The Harmalas also get stronger with the reverse tolerance building up, so even by taking the same dosage of Rue/Harmalas/Caapi, the Harmala content will get stronger and thus bring out more of the heavy Harmala dosage effects, and it'll keep getting stronger and stronger until you back the Harmala/Rue/Caapi dosage down a bit.

If you're not a regular user/practitioner, 4.5 grams of Rue and good dose of DMT should definitely be pretty strong for you, for me there is no dancing or being active on a good dose of Harmalas unless the Harmala reverse tolerance is built up, it's too relaxing, sedating, dreamy, the body gets heavier, you just wanna lay there, plus the sickness and overall heavy/rough body load, so a good dose of Rue or Harmalas or Caapi with a good dose of DMT/DMT-containing plant is by no means weak or light, you can use more moderate dosages for a lighter experience where you can get up and do things, but regardless of the dosage i'm always laying/sitting down with eyes closed going inwards during the come up, then after the come up stabilizes and things smooth out, i get up and move around.

If you want it to take you and make you it's bitch, you're definitely on the right track lol, take 4.5 grams of Rue seed powder in capsules, 30 minutes to an hour later take your DMT-liquid and hold on to your butt because it's gonna be quite the bumpy ride lol.

I hear you, but I don't want to deal with taking rue seeds. I have FB harmine. I think the consensus so far is 280-320mg harmine dissolved in juice + 100-120mg spirit of Osiris dissolved in juice. That seems sensible to me. Does it not?

Sure thing, Harmine will work fine, but just be aware that using pure or isolated Harmalas will definitely be missing those plant elements. I myself prefer either the plant, or the full spectrum extract, so while i've used Harmine/Harmaline mix, as well as pure Harmine (though the Harmine was only by itself, so far), i think the full spectrum Rue extract is better, but Harmine will do fine. There's many ways you can go about this, so just experiment around and see what works best for you through trial and error.

I'm still learning about this subject. I was under the impression that isolated Harmine or Harmaline was what you wanted. Either way I have access to full spectrum as well.

Yeah, having a cruder, more full-spec extract might be a good option for the pharma as ShamansStamen pointed out, though using harmine freebase isn't necessarily a bad route to go either, ends up falling under the old adage 'different strokes for different folks'.

Maybe phenomenologically speaking it could be a bit different [same goes if you were to use a more full-spec dmt extract, versus say white dmt freebase], though honestly ..even the more 'full spectrum' harmala extracts are still relatively pure in regards to the main constituents [maoi source depending, depends on personal extraction technique also I think],

Sure there'll be other minute quantities of certain things quite possibly, but for those miniscule constituents to have any major bearing .. I'm not entirely sure if they would tbh, especially once certain depths within the experience are hit.

Though ..with that said, I think that a fairly crude brew [vine or rue] when put up to the face of a crude harmala extract - the brew, ime, will more times than not be something fairly different or removed from what the crude harmala extract would do in terms of the overall experience as it sets in [ime] [this seems especially the case with vine brews ime]. I'd like to think that I'm able to differentiate the two, I could be off the mark though.. Wouldn't be the first time hehe

Mostly what I'd used for pharma in the past was freebase extract from the vine, also having used the extract from rue [rue for the most part, usually drank vine more often times than not]. Always had came out a tan/light tan color, this had been without any cleanings, was just left as is, same goes for the rue extract.

I'd be interested to try a cruder method of obtaining extract and then dosing - to see the comparison to drinking a brew or taking the tan freebase.

As ShamansStamen said, there's several ways to go about it, completely agree. At the same time I understand you wanting a ballpark to shoot from, wanting some rough numbers, while those numbers aren't always going to reflect the actuality of what'll happen ..hopefully they will give your friend what they're seeking.

Just some opinions, everyone in this thread has made good points. Good points all around

[Maybe phenomenologically speaking it could be a bit different [same goes if you were to use a more full-spec dmt extract, versus say white dmt freebase]

Do you mean Jim-jam?
I haven't had the luxury yet. If you mean yellow vs white. I can't tell any difference. I thought I could at one point, but I was wrong. I think it's dependent on environmental and psychological factors. You know much more than me though so that just where I'm at now.
maybe it will be the same way with harmine vs full spectrum for me at this point.

Yeah, same for me, yellow or white I don't think there to be much if any difference based on what I've experienced, and yeah I was mainly referring to jimjam [or anything else similar, as far as full spectrum extracts go].

I could be way off though, it's hard to truly judge, just based on the fact alone of how immensely variable the experience/s can be, aside from adding in other factors.

And yeah I agree on the environmental & psychological factors, most definitely. They can be the rudders for that initial launching off ime, only insofar until the experience takes you [if it does] ime.

<3

Thanks for the help tatt. Very much appreciated.

Of course, pure Harmine or Harmaline can definitely be used and is used by people, but there's quite the difference between isolated or combined Harmalas, and a more full spectrum alkaloidal extract, the full spectrum feels closer to but cleaner/lighter than the Rue, whereas the Harmala extract or pure Harmine or pure Harmaline just feel like isolated compounds. There's a lot of flavor that can be added to the mix/experience by additional compounds, which is why plants have their differences, why Cannabis the plant is better than isolated THC or CBD (due to the cannabinoid and terpene content), and is also one reason why people add admixture plants to their Aya or Changa, it's the synergy between the compounds that creates something unique and special (and fuller).

So don't get me wrong, pure Harmalas are fine, for me personally i prefer a more full spectrum kinda thing rather than isolated compounds, so full spectrum Rue extract for me is better than purified Harmala (Harmine/Harmaline) extract, and though i've had pure Harmine a few times, i haven't yet had it with DMT, though i have used some of it to bump up the amount of Harmine in my Rue and Rue extract which seems to balance things out ime.

Both Changa and oral Aya/Ana/Pharma-huasca are similar in that the compounds present contributes to the overall experience/feel of things. So really it's an art, it's something you experiment around with and find all that works for you, there's countless possible variations of this stuff for sure, so there's a lot of room to try different things.

ShamensStamen,

First of all thank you for all your help and sharing your knowledge with me. I truly appreciate it.
I'm going to get off topic a bit at some point. I'm sorry if it gets confusing. I just want to soak up as much of your knowledge as I can.

I understand the concept of what you are saying but don't you think all of this is subjective?
You're saying that Cannabis the plant is better than isolated THC or CBD (due to the cannabinoid and terpene content). Okay but wax and shatter have a higher cannabinoid content, do they not? So shatter and wax gets you much higher than smoking even the very best marijuana plant.
Unless you just enjoy the taste and flavor of the plant itself why wouldn't you want to vape shatter or wax? Is this a correct statement? High is high but higher is better than high considering the point of smoking weed is to get high.

Personally, I don't like marijuana the plant and I have never tried any of the isolated products so I can't comment on any of them. I really don't know shit about them because I don't like weed. I am only going off what I have heard. I once lived in a place where it was legal and it seemed like everyone preferred shatter and wax to the plant because it was so much stronger.

Considering I have no experience with harmine, full spectrum harmalas or isolated THC or CBD, the only thing I have to relate all this to is that I smoked cigarettes for quite sometime. I ended up moving to vaporizing e liquid with a very high nicotine content.

Both tobacco and e liquid have nicotine, but vape liquid has the ability to have a much higher concentration of nicotine without the full spectrum of tobacco and toxins. I found e liquid to be much more desirable than cigarettes.

I don't smoke or vape anymore, but I couldn't ever imagine going back to tobacco. If anything, I would definitely choose e liquid. Not because of the taste, because it just worked better. All i wanted was to satisfy my craving for nicotine.

Considering everything I said, would taking isolated harmine not be the same difference? All i want is to satisfy my craving for a long journey with the spirit of Osiris. The point is to inhibit MAO-A as you said so it will last longer, correct? The problem with vaping is, it works, but it doesn't last long.


If harmine will make it so the god particles don't get destroyed and I can experience a break thru dose for 2-4 hours, i have accomplished my mission. I don't expect to recreate the experiences I had in Peru here. I don't think that's possible.

Anyway...

Going to get off subject for a second so I apologize...Do you know if it is possible to turn FB DMT into a wax that could be vaporized in a pen designed for vaping wax or shatter?
If so do you have any idea how to do that, or is there a tek for it? Seems like there should be!!!



Also,
I have been getting mixed reviews of how long spice lasts if stored properly.
Lets say someone had it in a freezer, in an airtight jar, triple vacuum sealed with color changing desiccant packs and oxygen absorbents and it was kept out of the light. How long would it last?
Some people say many years to decades and some say it looses potency after a year. That's a huge gap. What is the oldest spice you have experienced without any noticeable change in potency?

Thanks again..

It's subjective when it comes to what people prefer, what i'm saying is that while isolated compounds are perfectly fine, there's a lot of different possible flavors of the Harmala and DMT experience and that compounds from the plants or even other plants can synergize with the Harmalas and DMT to give things a certain feel. So if using a full spectrum alkaloidal extract, it'll feel closer to the plant, if using a pure Harmala or pure Harmine extract it's going to feel like an isolated compound, more Pharmahuasca-like than plant-like.

As for the Cannabis, i live in a non-legal state so i haven't had the chance to try anything else than flower and some hash. But it is my opinion, and is true for me personally, that too much THC is not a good thing, and i never understood this getting higher crap, i only need a few puffs from the flower in a pipe and i'm good, if i smoke anymore than that i get very uncomfortably baked/stoned and i've been smoking daily for 9 years lol. People are smoking/vaping/dabbing too much THC imo and it's not a good thing. But it's not about the higher cannabinoid and terpene content, it's not about the potency, it's the synergy between the cannabinoids, terpenes and other compounds within the Cannabis plant which imo is better than isolated compounds, the isolated compounds may be useful in themselves but things work better in synergy and you get more out of it.

Consider how Ayahuasca is a combination of two plants, and there's hundreds of different admixture plants that can be mixed with it for different purposes. Also consider the general idea of Changa herbal mixes, sure you can have the basic DMT on Caapi leaf but there's so many other herbs you can add to the smoking mix (or take them orally) and then vape your Changa smoking mix for a different flavor of the experience. But that's more for i guess advanced practitioners, all you really need to worry about is getting a good dose of Harmine and timing the consumption of the DMT correctly so that it's fully orally active.

I too vape now, gave up Tobacco though rarely have a smoke but it's just not for me anymore, vaping is fine, i vape WTA (Whole Tobacco Alkaloid) e-liquid, which differs from the pure Nicotine because the WTA contains the other alkaloids found in Tobacco which gives a more satisfying vape. I've personally found Nicotine/WTA liquid to be far less addictive compared to Tobacco, much easier to put down. As for vaping DMT in a wax pen or something, there's a few threads on here that talk about that, i think it works but i haven't personally tried.

As for pure DMT shelf-life, i'm not sure, i've never had pure DMT, i mainly take the DMT-containing plants (Mimosa/Acacia) orally, but when i've made Changa i used a full spectrum Mimosa/Acacia extract using washing soda and iso alcohol, seemed to stay good for as long as i had it before i smoked it all and the root powders seem to stay good that i've noticed, but i can't really speak on crystal DMT yet.

----But that's more for i guess advanced practitioners, all you really need to worry about is getting a good dose of Harmine and timing the consumption of the DMT correctly so that it's fully orally active.---

Agreed..

----As for vaping DMT in a wax pen or something, there's a few threads on here that talk about that, i think it works but i haven't personally tried.-----

That's what I use and it works very well. Just wondering if there was something I could mix it with to make it more waxy like. Would probably work better.

---i get very uncomfortably baked/stoned and i've been smoking daily for 9 years lol.---

Last time I smoked in a legal state I got blown away retarded I had to sit in my car in the mountains for a couple hours before I came down enough to feel comfortable enough to drive again. Sad considering I used to drive around tripping balls.
It was really cool being able to walk in and buy whatever you want though. If it was my thing, I would have been in heaven. I still went back the next day and got retarded again, I figured, Fuck it, it's legal. Had some gummy bears as well. Those were more of a body buzz though.

Drug laws are dumb and make no sense.
Schedule 1 (I) drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined by the federal government as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Schedule 1 (I) drugs are the most dangerous drugs of all the drug schedules with potentially severe psychological or physical dependence.---So why is alcohol legal


---As for pure DMT shelf-life, i'm not sure, i've never had pure DMT, i mainly take the DMT-containing plants (Mimosa/Acacia) orally, but when i've made Changa i used a full spectrum Mimosa/Acacia extract using washing soda and iso alcohol, seemed to stay good for as long as i had it before i smoked it all and the root powders seem to stay good that i've noticed, but i can't really speak on crystal DMT yet.--

I haven't had changa, but many people on here seem to dig it. I don't see why FB would go bad honestly if stored properly.

so yeah...I think i'll go with 300 mg harmine and 100mg of you know what. Do you find it necessary to diet a week before like the shamans tell you when doing it this way?

Naw it's not necessary to diet or fast at all. I usually just don't eat anything the day of until after i come back down from my experience, but it can also be good to eat a light and easily digestible meal about 4 to 6 hours or so before taking it.