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Separating DMT And Harmalas From Goo Mix Options
 
melotikaci
#1 Posted : 3/16/2018 12:01:13 PM

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I have ~400mg dmt-harmalas mix goo.

Can I separate them without using naphtha?
Will warm water work?
Priority is to save dmt.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
melotikaci
#2 Posted : 3/17/2018 11:43:26 AM

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null24
#3 Posted : 3/17/2018 3:42:09 PM

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Question for you- why do you think warm water would work and how?

Not trying to offend, but one of the primary goals of this place is education. However the culture of this site is to get folks to do their own work, spoon feeding information ensures that one remains ignorant.

Asking questions like that makes it appear as if you've done no reading whatsoever, and personally I wonder how you came across this "mixture" you sure didn't make it yourself.

On the other hand, I see you're a full member,I'm just not familiar with your posts of the top of my head. Maybe you just want to be a little clearer. Do you think the water will work because your harmalas are salts and the spice is FB?

If this cranky response doesn't apply, then forgive me and let it stand as general advice.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
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melotikaci
#4 Posted : 3/17/2018 4:50:06 PM

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null24 wrote:
Question for you- why do you think warm water would work and how?

Not trying to offend, but one of the primary goals of this place is education. However the culture of this site is to get folks to do their own work, spoon feeding information ensures that one remains ignorant.

Asking questions like that makes it appear as if you've done no reading whatsoever, and personally I wonder how you came across this "mixture" you sure didn't make it yourself.

On the other hand, I see you're a full member,I'm just not familiar with your posts of the top of my head. Maybe you just want to be a little clearer. Do you think the water will work because your harmalas are salts and the spice is FB?

If this cranky response doesn't apply, then forgive me and let it stand as general advice.

Sorry I should have provided more details, it does look like a stupid question.

I was planning to make changa, dissolved harmalas and dmt in ethanol but later for some reason changed my mind. Evaporated ethanol and got harmala-dmt goo.

They are both freebase and I was thinking if freebase harmalas are water soluble like salts, I didn't remember that part correctly.

 
blue.magic
#5 Posted : 3/17/2018 10:09:57 PM

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There are plenty of chemical separation methods you can use in low tech settings. You can try them as a science project and report your results. This may be helpful for the community.

Manske

Dissolve the goo in HOT vinegar, add 10% salt (say 10 grams per 100 ml solution), mix well and leave to harmalas to crystallize by the process of dialisis.

Hopefully you may be left with precipitated harmala hydrochloride while DMT acetate will stay dissolved. You can get DMT freebase out using lye and naphtha as in typical A/B tek.


washing

Use a solvent in which one type of alkaloid is soluble while the other is not. Then simply do few pulls and evaporate. Repeat for purity.


pH separation

Uses different pKa of the respective alkaloids.

Convert everything to salt form, then add base slowly (preferrably drop-wise while lots of mixing and measuring pH continually with a pH pen). At certain pH levels the DMT, harmine and harmaline will precipitate. You will should end up with three precipitates each containing mostly one alkaloid. This works for harmalas alone, not sure about DMT.


dual solvent recrystallization

Uses different solubility of the respective alkaloids.

Dissolve everything in a mix of high BP and low BP solvent. One alkaloid should be less soluble in the low BP solvent. Leave the mix to slowly evaporate. You will get precipitate containing mostly one alkaloid while the rest will stay in solution.


paper chromatography

Use non-polar solvent for freebase alkaloids and maybe water or other polar solvent will work for salts. Since you have relatively small amount of alkaloids, haeavy paper should be able to hold them (watercolor paper maybe?). You can easily spot harmalas using UV light, then cut the harmala spot, place the paper in clean solvent. Do the same with rest of the paper in different cotainer with pure solvent. Evaporate.

Never tried that and not sure if it will work.


column of flash chromatography

Based on different polarity of the respective alkaloids.

If you are familiar with this, you already know how to do it Smile


sublimation

Based on different melting points of the respective alkaloids.

Not sure how this will work and you will probably need already pure enough mix of alkaloids.

By slowly heating the mix, the lowest MP alkaloid should vaporize first, then desublimate at the cool top of container (Petri dish or Erlenmeyer with cotton on top). Controlling the heat might be extremely tricky though and not sure if even possible.
 
null24
#6 Posted : 3/17/2018 10:42:18 PM

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What he said.

Could sound daunting, but that's why this place is here in part, to figure these things out.

Assuming that one has the basic level of knowledge required to extract the two things, and no further, and only has access to kitchen chemistry level supplies, at least some of these methods could/should work.

The manske sounds promising, and if it works maybe the easiest.
As far as pH separation, from my limited knowledge, DMT freebases at a very high pH, while all harmalas do much lower, so...?

The others are probably more involved than I'd get involved with with my limited resources of equipment, time, money, space, etc...

It's worth experimenting on, doubtful you'll lose anything if careful.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
 
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