This is my first trip report with smoking Salvia Divinorum, dry leaf, maybe about less than a gram. Not much I know but I wanted to approach it this way.

What happened during this trip?

I ensured the set and setting was good: mellow red light lamp on, ceiling light off, OM chanting music in the background (actually I was listening through the headphones), Dragon's blood burning in the long jostick box, tv off, chamomile tea brewed, room cleaned and hoovered. I was set and ready to take the leap into the unknown.

As the OM music chanted through my headphones, the first thing I felt after the second try at the bong, was a strange, but subtle churning feeling as though everything around me, including my torso and face, especially my lips, was slowly being pulled into a warping reality effect.

It was subtle and not strong, it was slow and deliberate, and not fast or overwhelming, but I felt something was going to happen like I had a sense that I am about to experience something that I may not like, and that was because I felt like I was becoming part of this weird churning reality. It felt a bit foreboding, as though whatever was happening to me I would inevitably "lose my sense of self" and blend-in with this churning feeling that also seems to be making everything smaller as though everything was being pulled into a single point. That frightened me a bit, but I didn't panic.

I looked to the left of me and noticed a shadow closing in, and it reminded me of an overhead roofing closing. This was very brief. My stomach tightened and my breathe shortened and I began to shiver and shake, but not uncontrollably. I could no longer hear the OM chanting from my headphones as my focus seemed to be on the experience. I told myself that whatever happens I am in control and that nothing can harm me.

The experience continued. The warping of reality continued, and at one point I thought "Okay, it wants to take me into the cream-coloured wardrobe on the right hand side of my room, but my wardrobe was a thin slither of itself as if it was being pulled in and round in a whirl. And it felt like my lip was joining it. My face also felt like it was being pulled and bended towards the wardrobe. This was a bit unpleasant. I felt like my face was being stretched and bended very slowly towards this center. But I couldn't see a center, I just felt like there was a central point where this goes, and the whole room and my face was being pulled-in in that direction. As the experience continued, it looked or felt like it wasn't going to get any stronger but would just continue to swirl me into the bendy beige wardrobe.

I picked up an object from the table as a way of taking focus off of this bendy wardrobe, as if to prove to myself that I can move and can will myself i.e., I am in control. The object was a speckled stone I used in my old fishtank. I notice that this is a self-coping mechanism when a person is under some stress they grab something and caress it, so I started to caress the stone and noticed its beauty, and the stone seemed to form three large speckles in the center in the form of a triangle of sorts. I though nothing of it. That was a relief because at that point things went back to normal. My stomach felt a bit tight. The wardrobe was back to normal. I felt disoriented. I grabbed a piece of chocolate and eat it.

Some people might think that what I experienced here was just a trifling thing, like nothing to write home about. But wasn't the experience that made this a bit frightening, but the anticipation of what could happen. I thought that I was going to lose myself and become one with this swirling reality that is slowly pulling me in.

I actually thought I was going to die but in the sense that I could at any point lose consciousness and never come round or wake up. I thought that with this little amount of Salvia that I smoked actually contained a big dose and there is no going back. There's no antedote. My mum isn't here to comfort me. It's just me being pulled into this whirly warping reality and there is nothing else that can take me away from this pulling. It felt like time had stood still during the experience, but after the experience had worn off it felt like I had undergone this experience for hours.

The pulling feeling was difficult because it was pulling and a strange curving movement. I thought it was also pulling my chest but that could have been a tightening feeling because the last inhale from the bong was more intense than the first. I noticed the first inhale was a bit weak, so the second (or it might have been the third) attempt I ensured I got a lung full. I held the smoke in for about 20 seconds and let it out very slowly through the mouth. And then it started.

Overall the experience was slightly unpleasant and a bit frightening but no mad panic. I reckon on a higher dose I may have panicked. I don't know. The thought of blending into everything like that whilst thinking you are going to "lose" yourself forever is very frightening.

So what's next? I'm tempted not to try again, but on the other hand I am tempted to try the same dose again and see what happens. One part of me says don't try this again and another says stick with it. The nature of Salvia has shown me how it effected me this time. I know that if I have a big dose I am going to experience some kind of death.

That frightens me.

Now you're gettin' somewhere! You seem sooo ready for a full immersion SD trip. I only advocate this bizarre mind state as a catalyst for experiencing the gentler, yet profound, planes of Salvia space available through smoked or quidded plain leaf. You can surely get there smoking plain leaf a bit aggressively. A minority of psychonauts "enjoy" the Salvia Droid circus(hat tip). While generally not pleasant, it(deep salvia space) can be rather informative re the fungible nature of reality and consciousness.

If you're so inclined, mix some SD plain leaf with MJ @50/50. Indica strains seem suited. Bonged gently, 2-4 decent hits can be interesting. For me at least, the SD somaticizes, engendering the deep realization that our, body-mind complex is an awesome GIFT, mystically granted from the Source as our tool for EXPERIENCING. The meaning of life? To EXPERIENCE, of course! After the first 5min or so, the MJ lends its meditative, quasi-psychedelic effect as the SD body-mind warp dissipates. Worth considering.

Peace

I want the gentler experience but last night was a bit worrying. After the trip ended I spent an hour on the computer and then got myself to be bed. But when I closed my eyes, I was seeing murky shapes like peacock feathers or palm branches but without any colours to them. I was also feeling reverberations in my body; at least it was sutble and not upsetting.

Then this morning, a headache, a really stiff neck, and a feeling of grogyness, as though I had a 'hangover'. I drank some water, got dressed, and walked outside into the sun for an hour. After a lite/light meal, I wrote this post still feeling a bit weird, a slight headache, and a bit slow.

Never thought of trying SD with MJ. I don't smoke MJ because of the paranoia thing and I'm worried it might impair my sports performance (I am a martial artist).

Does Salivia have a residual effect after it has worn off? I'm starting to see a subtle 'smoke' effect coming off objects around me, and when I look at a black background such as a tv screen I am seeing a wavy pattern with a cicular upward movement. That could just be purely a visual thing, but I don't know.

Any potent psychotropic can give a "hangover". Persistent issues, physical or psychic, seem rare with SD or classic hallucinogens.

Peace

Even now as I write this post, I'm feeling tired, my face feels 'aged', my nervous system seems rattled, there's a strange feeling in the upper chest, a slight headache that comes and goes. There is also no feeling in my groin or genitals. I cannot feel any sexual desire. I am hoping that is not long term. Thanks for replying btw. Your posts are re-assuring.

ps, you seem a bit, hyper-somatic. Not a criticism, just an observation from fellow a Nexian and clinician of 30y. While encouraging anyone to "consume" intoxicants of any sort is not my intention, please be apprised, that in all likelihood, your HEALTHY(presumed) body/mind complex are well equipped to handle modest use of psychedelics. It seems particularly improbable that the constellation of rather "vague" symptoms you describe are wholly "organic", will persist indefinitely or will, result in/progress to, chronic ailments.

That said, one must "pick ones poison", in a PERSONALLY judicious fashion!

Peace

Today I feel really good; clear minded almost. My body doesn't feel whacked out as it did yesterday and my libido is back to normal. My next meeting with Salvia will likely be in a month's time, but I'm going to see if I can take less, like just one bowl, and get the same response from Salvia, maybe something a bit more mellow. I read that Salvia works in sleep as well, so the effect of Salvia is still on-going. I know that Salvia is toxic or is classed by some as a 'toxin', but I am resisting the urge to see it as a 'poison', but more as a tool to unlock something. I guess that's why I am also very cautious with this plant; the potency of it.

I'm a little puzzled to see this statement. What led you to say that Salvia is toxic?

'Toxic' and 'poison' are semantically equivalent (for example, when placarding a toxic substance for bulk transport the skull-and-crossbones danger label may be supplemented with either word.)

'Toxin' is subtly different in meaning although nowadays this nuance has been lost somewhat due to incorrect usage:


But as Paracelsus said, "the difference between poison and medicine lies merely in the dose."

Furthermore Salvia officinalis, the common, culinary sage can be view as being more toxic than Salvia divinorum on account of its thujone content. That doesn't mean it's not a very useful culinary and medicinal herb.

The active ingredient of salvia is not toxic as far as I know. One gram of dry leaf is 2mg of salvinorin, that is a large dose if you smoked it all. It will also make quite a bit of smoke, and the burnt plant material (not the active salvinorin) may give you a headache. Also, the imagined anxiety and stress you felt can trigger some of the issues you had (as Legarto Rey suggested).

Consider that salvinorin has been patented to help repair brain damage. It is not considered toxic as far as I know, do you have on that info somewhere?

I would recommend you don't take salvia again until you do further research. You have doubts about its toxicity? STOP and figure that out. This is a great place to do so and ask questions. Doubts can turn into paranoia. A paranoid mind can cause all kinds of issues despite you being 100% physically functionally safe. Also, make sure you measure the dose you have decided on based on the research you did (don't wing it).

Once on a mushroom trip I convinced myself that the mushrooms I grew had poisoned me. It was not true, but I FELT like I was truly poisoned, despite having multiple mushroom trip experiences in the past and knowing that paranoia can be amplified by mushrooms. The mind is a powerful thing, you want to make sure you enter the situation with full understanding to minimize the chances of your mind throwing you into a paranoia divergent loop where the mind causes you to "feel" something and that "feeling" is used to reinforce the paranoia which is followed by stronger feelings, and so on. If you are in such a loop, learn to accept it as fighting it makes it stronger in my opinion.

Also, if MJ gives you anxiety you may be more prone to paranoia with other substances. Mindfulness meditation can be helpful. It can make you realize how powerful your mind is in shifting what you feel and the reality you perceive, this in turn can make a natural psychedelic experience not seem so alien and make the seeds of paranoia less likely to sprout into a massive mental feedback loop.

In short, I would recommend to not take salvia again until you do you research to settle the toxicity question internally (just because you hear here that it is not toxic you may not truly internalize it yourself), and if not doing so already, practice some meditation and alter your frame of mind while sober so you can convince yourself that such shifts in perception are part of being human.

Good luck and I wish you safe and happy and enlightening travels.

No I don't have doubts about it being a toxic or its toxicity, I am just parroting what a pharmacologist said. Presumably, the word "toxin" is used in the investigation of SD:

https://books.google.co....ivinorum%20A&f=false

So presumably the substance can be tested for toxicity. I am not suggesting that it is toxic, I am just saying that I refuse to think it is. The reason I thought I was being poisoend is because I didn't expect I would feel it in my body. I thought I would just get a visual trip from such a small dose. I actually felt the whole thing through my body and that's what caused me to think that I had poisoned myself.

I went into the experience with Salvia under the understanding that I am in control and that nothing can harm me. I didn't even think about how I would react or how my mind would react. I was just confidently expecting something to happen and would cross bridges when I get there.

The paranoia thing with MJ I have never personally experienced, but almost everyone I know has this paranoia from smoking it. I have tried a cannabis strain that was smoked in a joint, and I spent the whole time laughing with no headaches. No paranoia. I have also tried the resin stuff, which physically relaxed me but made me a bit moody and afterwards gave me a banging headache.

As for the headaches and stuff with Salvia I don't know what did it and you are right it could have been the burnt grass of Salvia.

You are right about the meditation. I should start doing it like in the early hours of the morning. I wish I could set myself to do that like I used to do when I was younger.

Yes that is right. It's all about the dose.

Well said Loveall! That negative feedback loop you mentioned is a very real possibility even without the amplification from psychedelics. Kinda like the exact opposite of the placebo effect.

I have not personally tried SD, but with my experiences(mainly Shrooms and DMT), like Loveall also mentioned, you have to learn to let go of the anticipation of what 'might' happen. That is a lot easier when you are 100% sure you know what you're taking and have done your research before Tripping.

You're never going to be 100% comfortable when trying something new. Now that you've experienced it, know it's effects, and hopefully are more informed about it you can make an informed personal decision on whether or not to continue.

Interesting discourse!
Just to clarify, my reference to use of "intoxicants" was in the historic and colloquial parlance of any substance that intoxicates, presumably temporarily. Not to suggest a poison that induces illness or death. Additionally, my turn of phrase, "pick ones poison", was again parlance of, choosing between. Not to suggest actual, poison!

OP, no diss, you're a bit literal. Not a bad thing, just refreshing.

Peace

Palosanto, sorry, I misread the MJ paranoia part. Thanks for clarifying.

I can't read that book you linked discussing toxicity (google won't let me). There is a study where rats where given 1.6mg per kg of body weight of salvinorin A (over 100x higher than a human dose) daily for two weeks with no observed issues.

So it seems that at the effective high dose for humans (~0.01mg/kg) salvinorin A is not toxic at all. Based on traditional use and recent research (see patent in previous post) it could be beneficial. If anyone has other info please correct me.

I am not good at detecting or expressing the nuances of language and expressions. I am actually autistic and have difficulty with informal (non-strict) abstractions, and find language and expression facinating and difficult. I can be articulate, very articulate, but I am not a natural wordsmith and sometimes I lack the context for loose abstractions. Rules are difficult, some rules and the meaning of words are 'rules' that I have great diffculty with sometimes.

The book in the link I gave noted that Salvinorin A has a "low toxicity", and last night just after I had the trip experience I watched a documentary where a pharmachologist referred (I believe) to SD or Salvinorum A as a "toxin" or that it was "toxic" - I cannot remember which word it was. So that's the reason or reasons that I mentioned "poison" in relation to my experience, because toxin and poison are co-related, though they are not the same. When I was experiencing Salvia I thought I had poisoned myself, like I had taken a dose of rattlesnake venom or I had eaten Deadly Nightshade, and I am feeling the "venom" or "poison" in the form of pins and needles all over my body, which I did feel in this trip just before I noticed the vortex thing coming into view and my face being pulled into a direction right. Now I did my research. I knew beforehand the pins and needles experience reported by other users of SD. It's just that in the experience of using SD, I had lost my memory, and the only context I had for these pins and needles was that I had poisoned myself somehow.

ps, you've done a masterful job of describing the SD, body/mind "smear"! Linguistic deficits...NOT.
I do appreciate your reportage of "objective" effects COMBINED with "subjective" sensibility about possible consequence or meaning of those effects. Rather artistic v autistic! If you've not, must study the master work of Salvia Droid! http://www.zensages.com/

Having dabbled modestly with psychedelics in my younger decades. Nothing close to the vast and varied experience of many, @decade ago I smoked, solo, quality SD enhanced leaf("extract". Once the initial, transpersonal aspects of the trip waned a bit and I began to reintegrate, I was existentially FEARFUL of having potentially destroyed who I was, never to regain my former...self, space, time, humanoid, earthly reference frame! Such is the disintegrative capacity of deeper SD mind states. Pleasant it wasn't. Deep dread of having ruined EVERYTHING I knew. Mercifully, with SD, this "annihilation" aspect is brief. Smoked DMT, similarly, can bring the different yet complete self annihilation, also fairly briefly. Higher dose, ingested tryptaminics(LSD, ayahuasca, shrooms), may also induce the annihilation state, that if overdone can be longer lasting, seemingly infinite. The ultimate "hyperslap", as the duration can be unmercifully protracted.

Delved into with abandon, such mind states, including the bizarre salvia space, can be FAR from trivial and ANYTHING but fun and games. They can, however, be rather transformative, if a bit stern.

Although available, annihilation, is typically not the repetitive goal of many entheogen enthusiasts. Some "DMT heads" do seem enamored, but many persons who seek long term relationships with the plant medicines do so through the more manageable, shallower planes of encounter.

Peace

I hope that by smoking SD, instead of chewing it as they do among the Mazatecs, that the experience is not too harsh. I don't think it was too harsh. It just gave me a taste of what to expect, and now that the days have gone by I am no longer fearful (of course that can change in the moment of entering SD space). I just didn't realise how physical the effects were, how it was a little bit visual at first and then suddenly almost all physical, and then the abscence of almost any feeling of sense of self, as if myself was anaesthetised and numb. There was also a strange feeling just before this loss of sense of self, at the point at which I started to stretch and bend towards the wardrobe, that I had been here before or that I was about to go return to something. Very odd.

Salvinorin A is a kappa opioid agonist. This action leads to the dissociative effects.

The effects as experienced are indeed uncanny.