I've been working with psychedelics as an adjunct to my recovery for several years, with varying degrees of success. Being a self-created path that began entirely as an auto didactic exercise,I have begun to incorporate other people, services and things to it in order to create a more holistic and well rounded space in which to recover. For be this has included taking care of long neglected medical and physical needs, addressing past trauma with individual talk therapy, a multitude of recovery and self help meetings, and being in service .

Recently I started micro dosing psilocybin again after a long period without doing so to great benefit. It has opened me up to a few realizations and questions regarding this practice. I notice a mood lift almost immediately that lasts for days after I take about .25 gram dried cubes. This can be accompanied by a light buzzing of energy that is definitely pleasurable. Now I know that psilocybin does not have addictive potential in the way my drugs of choice- opiates- do, but regardless, I can still feel the trigger switches in my brain being toyed with.

I've never noticed this before,and it's,well, interesting to be cognizant of. I was at a meeting last night where this topic was discussed, and one of the participants talked about how his experience with free based dmt at first freed him, but later he found himself basically addicted to checking out with it and it became an extreme liability.

Another thing that was brought up was a rebound effect from using it like this. I have witnessed in a friend and this person spoke to his depression returning with a vengeance after "abusing" dmt for some time.

Community and accountability were identified as the two biggest ingredients to making psychedelics successful in recovery. Just as I have found my greatest success with it after engaging the outside help of others, I think most would find that to be true.

What id's the experience with this if you are using "drugs to get off drugs"?

I've only ever truly had serious issues with alcohol, I can't speak to most other substances, but my experience using drugs to help has been mixed.

I developed a really unhealthy relationship to alcohol a few years back. Up until that point I had been a heavy cannabis smoker my entire adult life, and only drank alcohol sporadically. A number of circumstances came up and I had to stop smoking for a while. During that time I started drinking more regularly, to fill all the time I had normally spent getting stoned. By the time I was able to go back to smoking, I found I didn't really enjoy the effects of weed as much and it made me significantly more anxious than it ever used to.

So I pretty much just stopped using cannabis for over a year, only partaking every now and then and almost always regretting it. My drinking really escalated a lot at this point, and I got into the habit of taking LSD every few days - which was super stupid and wasteful. It was strange. I had initially started taking LSD more frequently to help cut down my alcohol consumption, but there was something about the synergy between the stimulation of acid with alcohol - it became my favorite thing to do just to pass the time.

Needless to say the LSD didn't help at all and I started going downhill pretty quick. I started using other drugs like cocaine, ketamine, and to a lesser extent MDMA, far more often than is healthy. In retrospect, I'm incredibly grateful I didn't become truly dependent on cocaine or ketamine.

After being mostly abstinent from it, I thought at this point maybe I'd try smoking weed again, just for kicks. It was like rediscovering what it's like to be high for the very first time.

I had a lot of really positive insights into my compulsive behavior. I realized I had been stuck in a sort of a feedback loop for nearly a decade, constantly chasing states of intoxication without recognizing I was even doing it. I thought I was using drugs because they reveal you to yourself and help you connect with other people, but in reality I was getting messed up all of the time because I wanted to escape myself. I needed a mute button for my mind, a filter between me and the world. I just wanted to sleep.

After just a week of irregular cannabis use, I stopped tripping every few days and found that I can easily cut myself off after a few drinks if I have a couple puffs of ganja while I'm drinking. I now remember why I originally loved cannabis so much, but I no longer feel the need to consume as much of it as I possibly can. My tolerance to weed is significantly lower than it used to be, so it actually works and does what it's supposed to do. I had literally forgotten what it's like to be high.

I'm still a daily drinker and working on it, but I cut my alcohol intake by over half of what it used to be. I'm not getting hammered every single night. I actually wake up feeling good, with energy. The transition had been so gradual I hadn't realized how much damage I was doing to my body, but I can already feel the difference.




I've wondered if my experience might have been different if I had used psilocybin instead of LSD.

Thanks for this null, and good luck on your recovery!

I've used drugs to get off addictive drugs in the past also. Much like a "lesser of the two evils" type scenario. It's not ideal, it's just trading demons for devils. It's procrastination, or issue avoidance, or poor coping strategies, or ... you pick.
The core issue is there, that is always underlying drug abuse. It's not that one just likes to get wasted because sobriety can be extremely satisfying if you are doing it right.
Those of us who fear addiction can also fall into poly-drug abuse, flitting from substance to substance. Even psychedelics can take a part in this cycle, they certainly have when I have let them.

The most successful I have been in treating myself with psychedelics was by doubling my LSD dose every weekend for a month. After taking 8 strong tabs and being sucked into the void, after a months preparation, it cured me. It was close to a year before I even drank a coffee after that. The core issue that lead to the crisis still remained though. I have only recently realised what that is. We can be so blind to ourselves. Even knowing what we are, it can be difficult to really see what is going on inside. Even when people tell us we can't see it.

I'm no fool. But I have realised some of the extent of my ignorance when it comes to myself and have been astounded, all the while thinking how so many other people don't know themselves. Such conceit, so ignorant. Psychedelics have made me realise this. They have made me humble and brought new aspects of "reality" to the forefront of my mind. I wonder how many more there are. Though I'm getting older now and hopefully most of the skeletons have been put on display and held proud, or at least cleaned and dusted.

As was identified by the Portuguese government before their mass decriminalization... the opposite to addiction is connection, not sobriety. It's just drawing those connections in a crazy world with de-socialised minds that many of us find so hard.

I did some of that too, or rather it did some of that to me.

The first time I took acid (actually a RC), I smoked a cigarette and it felt horrible, like I had never smoked in my life - the smell and everything was just pure evil. So I dropped the 15 cigs a day on the come down of that trip. One of the first after-effect of psychedelics for me were discovering what it is to be healthy, eating well, breathing and drinking water. Cigs eventually came back around, when I was in depression, but my relationship to addiction has changed drastically. I stopped smoking (again something like 10cigs/day) in one day just by going dancing a sunday night, it didn't even happen so consciously - the next day, smoking was just boring and it was not much of a fight to stop.

Psychedelics have redefined drugs for me - there are sacred plants and drugs, two very different things, drugs being the resultant of the unbalance in capitalist society and a non sacred use of those substance. I most certainly believe the world we live in is pushing us very hard toward addiction as the sensation of missing something important is quite a big thing in today's world.

I met someone who held a (home made if I can say) recovery center for young abuser, a sort of collective thing with working every day, doing stuff together. He told me "an addict is always an addict" and he smiled (a lot) when I said I was smoking again (the depression period), which was really off putting to me. Tobacco is like the lousiest and most capitalist drug. However, there is some truth to what he says. Addiction patterns can be shifted toward something else, they are this: patterns, loops. If you really want to get off addiction, you have to change your pattern a lot - in ways that, imo, don't well fit society. There was a downside to the psychedelics, I was fascinated and a bit obsessive, I used them a bit too much and not always respectfully (neither of myself or them), even with microdosing three years back - but I wouldn't call it addiction, an estranging attraction perhaps ...

Other than that, I never had a problem with alcohol, never liked it (getting drunk I don't really understand). I don't drink coffee either. I have no interest for Ecstasy anymore either and, though I tried, I never was much into the cocaine, speed and bonkers bandwagon. I would say I still have some sort of addiction to computer/technology though, and music sometime. But I guess saying I am addicted to electricity/comfort is a better way to put it. I have not smoked a joint in some years, and if I want to get high, I just breath.



I like this, however human connection can further the addiction, sometimes (for the emotionally sensitive type). Nature on the other hand ...

My work with entheogens has been a big part of my recovery process, and was also part of my addiction process.

Overall, I have found that working with psychedelics in a ritualized setting, whether of my own devising or (especially) within a structured group context such as a Santo Daime meeting, to be really helpful in recovery. Groups such as Daime, or the NAC, have played a huge role in many people getting sober.

I have never managed to get abusive in mt relationship to DMT, and when I go in without intention for healing it does not really work or just feels shitty.

Growing cactus for years and then drinking them in a sacred context has also been really helpful, as has gardening in general. Working with plant spirits has also really helped me, as has working with non-entheogenic herbs to deal with some of my underlying mental health and trauma stuff.

I love this thread, i am working on a piece of writing about this very topic (at least getting ready to write about it...)

While I have not experienced this yet, I have a very similar story.


Just a few days ago I relapsed again, had 1-2 virgin tobacco cigarettes, a hellova lot of alcohol and smoked a bit of weed. Luckily weed gives me a different perspective and i smoke very rarely.

I've realized that I can now not relapse, ever. When I wanted to fix myself up after drug abuse, I've explored every possibility I could find (every day still I am searching for anything new)

I have tapped into that a few times, and know for sure that when I'm baseline healthy, I feel kind of euphoric all day long.

I'm a very positive person, so that's no problem, and as soon as my anhedonia is gone (can take up to 2 weeks to fix itself...) i feel euphoric and happy.

Might be because of the supplements im taking, maybe of the ton of lifestyle changes that are positive, but i realized i dont want to smoke cigarettes, or weed, or alcohol or anything else tbh. I can imagine this being a low dose of opiate tbh just being plane happy and joyful all day.



So my answer to you is, i could pair this with mushrooms and other healthy substances and it would do great, but to be honest just by being plain healthy i have found a way to cope from drugs

Been there mate.

I'd just like to add, although saying "you can not relapse again" can be a good thing if you are using it for motivation to NOT relapse again (example: you just had major night out or fury filled fun doing whatever it is you do and you've come back to some degree of "normalcy" and you think, wow, what a mess, i can't do this again...) but in reality the potential to relapse is there. Obviously you can physically do it...

So it can be good to remember what effects something has had in the past, but denying yourself of how you actually feel can cut you off from who you are and ultimately the problems underlying the addiction will show themselves in some form, possibly in another form of addiction. Having ideals can be useful but following them without reflecting to see how they're effecting things can be detrimental and actually manifest like an addiction itself.

This is a complex subject and i don't have an actual keyboard right now so I'll have to get back to it another time. If you haven't heard of him I suggest looking up gator mate; he works in canada with addicted people and has a very interesting perspective on the subject.

Psychedelics can be beneficial or detrimental depending on context, dosage, chemical, etc. I would not reccommed using them or not using them but rather to have a clear idea of the context in which you are using them if you are thinking about it.

Alright, i have to get back to eating copious amounts of chocolate.

[Edited-spelling]

Interesting replies, these are all over the board.

As for the never relapse thing, I can't honestly say that I completely understand your post,justb. I'll have too re-read it, but I don't know how many times I've said the words ever and never without really meaning it. Now, I do tell myself that I won't do heroin again, but that is the syntax I use with myself.

What I have learned since I started doing this is that I can't do it alone, that I need the help of more learned individuals to help me gather useful tools and to make good decisions.

I would really like to know, if you have an actual practice that helps keep you in check, moving forward with deliberation, maintains your veracity and keeps you accountable, what does it look like.

I'm not sure if all the respondents here are really dealing with addiction and recovery on alife or death basis.

And spractal, yes Mate is wonderful, I wish I had the resources and pull to get him down here for a talk.

Hubris comes before a fall. You can always relapse. Hopefully you won't. I've transcended all and become god. I left opiates so far behind it was almost like they never existed in the first place. Then, I injured myself. I needed to take opiates, and I took them responsibly.... until I didn't.

But, keep on programming the bio-computer to not want drugs of abuse. It has worked better than anything else for me. Methadone worked very well also. Some people bash it, but if you do it right and take it seriously you can use it to get your life together.
There's great danger. No silver bullets.

Watch for signs you are abusing psychedelics and be honest with yourself.

I helped sit, more on 'standby', for a guy who was addicted to meth on an ibogaine purge. He came out the other side a changed man. I never really knew the guy or anything (on account of his affiliation), but those who did know him said he was like a completely different person in the weeks after. He had been in and out of rehab four or five times before. he was a heavy user and went on a methadone treatment program right after the ibogaine and to my knowledge he's stayed clean.


An alcoholic female friend OD'd (took too many) shrooms on accident trying to have a fun time and she hasn't touched alcohol since. She said even when she was in the depths of withdrawal she didn't even crave it or want to have any. That was almost 12 years ago and she says she's got absolutely no urge to have any. She can be around it, and be around people drinking and the thought of drinking.


I also know of someone who tried to treat an alcohol addiction with "psychedelic therapy" (read as: dosing on lots of mushrooms and nbome) and ended up in the loony bin after running down the interstate naked. And another who tried to medicate with mushrooms and instead saw demons he wasn't ready to confront and only spurred him to drink more heavily. So it's not all rainbows and uniforms and gumdrop topped yogurt.

Psychedelics are powerful tools as we're all aware. And like a powersaw, without care and ANSI approved safety squints you can potentially end up maiming your psyche or worse.

It isn't something that should be willy-nilly thrown out as blanket advice like most of the internet is prone to do. "Oh you're depressed? Take mushrooms!" "You're addicted? Do an Ibo purge!" Some people would be fine on their own to self medicate and confront their demons today. Some might do ok with a trusted friend. But I suspect the majority would need some careful therapy work leading up to and following the attempted psychedelic intervention. whether pharmaceutical or psychedelic, intervention therapy like this isn't usually a cure-all and needs serious adjunctive therapy or self work to make it stick.

And I've relapsed hhehhh

The difference between rugs are vast, I've noticed now. Although we do share similarities, my addiction was a bit off:


Firstly it gave no real pleasure - getting drunk with friends and smoking cigarettes/weed doesn't have the short term relief that opiates or amphetamines can offer.

Second, when I do my thing of healthy living I'm pretty much baseline in two weeks, it looks like the lifestyle causes inflammation that interferes with my ability to feel pleasure - so if I do it right for a few weeks I feel very good. Not sure how someone with opiate addiction feels about this part, anyone care to share their experiences?

Basically the big picture is you are unhealthy on a certain level, and want to get healthier. This healthier should mean happier and longer and it should be worth it. Once I have figured out I can be a healthy happy individual, these relapses showed bad decision making I think and self esteem issues. Come to think of it, psychedelics would have probably led me to this realization The difference between abusing drugs and being healthy is like the difference between being sober and being on shrooms, mind blowing

Sorry to hear that brother.

Yeah, I've relapsed over Christmas too justB612. Good ole holidays are the time sober addicts need to be their most vigilant.

I'm back on the wagon now though. I've been hashing it out in my head this morning, and it's the same issue as always. There's no new secrets to be found in my head. I know exactly what has caused the situation, even if I didn't stop and pay attention at the time.


Well said.

Here's where we get to the sticky end of using psychs to help with these issues. The results vary wildly. It's clearly not a cure all that can be applied liberally to everyone suffering from substance addiction. But I do believe it can be tailored and used correctly to help with almost all people, though there are some that have a poor disposition to psychedelics as a whole and the class is basically psychological poison to them.

Knowing myself as I do, and psychedelics as I do, there's no way I'd be prepared to trip at the moment. I feel that adding psychedelics right now would probably cause unnecessary anguish. The issue is already known, there is not going to be a dawning light of realisation. Better to put some distance between myself and the bump in the road before attempting to add psychedelics to the healing process.

I would not even attempt to go anywhere near a strong psychedelic at this stage, my psyche would flat out reject it and probably summon demon like entities. I've been told off in hyperspace before, I would not dare enter again without my heart being pure of intent.