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Has anyone reached a maximum dose? Options
 
GreatArc
#1 Posted : 12/1/2017 9:00:48 PM

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For those of you who have explored very high doses of DMT, have any of you reached a maximum dose?

My sitter and I have been steadily increasing the doses we take to the point that we are in what some would regard as being far too powerful to be comfortable.

Last night, over the course of 8 hours, we each took 3 trips. 120, 125, 130mg respectively.

We started out using very high doses to begin with, as we were both concerned before taking it that it might not ever be something we wanted to take again, so we had might as well fully experience a single powerful trip if we were going to bother exploring it at all. We began at 50mg doses and progressively have pushed each other to go further.

I have very high anxiety and pre-flight jitters, particularly now that we are in a realm where every single experience is straight away a lengthy breakthrough with OEV/hallucinations so vivid that there is no part of the trip where the DMT realm is mapping onto reality, we simply cannot see anything of our environment around us even with open eyes, nor can we distinguish between open or closed eyes.

Ego death and breakthrough happen 9/10 times , there is not even a 'you' there to feel fear or discomfort no matter what happens.

So we have been exploring the drug deeper and deeper together, ( taking 3 or 4 dives each over the course of an evening-- alternating as one another's sitter), and we had become more and more convinced that the only people who can have a "bad" trip are those who find the disorientation or alien experience distressing instead of simply astonishing. Each of us had shed all of our anxiety (I have more than most, and it takes me much more emotional preparation than most to be able to use psychoactive substances like everyone else, but the breakthrough dose/ego death ensures that even the most nightmarish trip is fine since there is not even a definable "me" there to feel fear).

SO, last night, on the last trip of the evening, my friend (whose typical reaction to every experience is hysterical laughter as his mind is being blown as he repeats 'that's impossible!' or 'holy shit!' over and over as he is being hit with 5 epiphanies per second), had the first "bad" trip since the first evening we ever tried DMT. He reported that his lungs were somewhat used up going in, he had to suppress a cough on his first inhalation of 4, and he thinks he carried that discomfort in with him. Added to which he had taken almost all of a 130mg dose. He now has his confidence shaken to go higher, as do I, since we were becoming more and more convinced that we had both the right kinds of minds and do so much work to create the most comfortable and positive Set & Setting we could ever imagine doing psychedelics in. He said: "I can see how it is possible for us to have a distressing trip at these doses. I was getting overwhelmed just by the intensity down there and connecting to my body and concerns I was going to shit my pants and that my body was back there, confessing my deepest, darkest secrets even though I don't really have any, while I am stuck getting overwhelmed down in that place..."

Every effort is made to use DMT in a place of perfect safety and only under the absolute optimal mood. 4/5 times, only one of us will trip in an evening, since the slightest reservation means that's just not that person's night and they will sit only. Everything speaks of safety and security, preparation, physical and emotional well-being, comfort, and a spirit of eagerness.


Have any of you done increasing high doses and if so, have any of you decided that there is a point at which you have reached maximal amounts?

I am finding that there is a tendency to black out much more of the experience than there is on shallower dives, and wonder if I were to just vaporize 500mg or something insane would it just be like passing out or so intense I won't remember a thing?

Anyone have experiences with what happens at high doses, (please indicate whatever dosages, insufflation/inhalation method/device used) and limits you have reached?

Generally speaking; ANY advice or experience with maximal doses or thoughts on extremely high dose exploration would be valuable. I would love to be able to work my way up to a dose as strong as the limits of my body could handle if I can continue to get there without much distress, moving in up small increments at a time. What is DMT like at 200mg? 300? What is the boundary or limitation on this mysterious and astonishing frontier?

Thanks in Advance!
-GA.
 

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concombres
#2 Posted : 12/1/2017 10:27:57 PM

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You can only get so far in before you black out. When it has happened to me i was not able to take anything back from the trip. I just suddenly sat up & had the vague notion that something incredibly intense just happened.
 
Nereus
#3 Posted : 12/2/2017 1:15:05 AM

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In my experience, it is impossible to have an objective opinion regarding high dosage when it comes to smoking/vaping. The way I see it really, is that when one uses this route of administration some precentage of the end product is getting lost i.e burnt or not properly administered. Also duration doesn't stick around that much, things unfold kind of fast, they also dissolve away faster too. Not meaning to say you haven't reach the right conclusion, because you have, in a sense you are completely right and I can relate. But this ROA is less effective (for this kind of test) than others.

Oral ROA, like pharma for example, could def. provide an accurate result. Tth most I ever tried using oral ROA was in the range of 120-150mg taken at full inhibition of mao. I can only say I learned a lot. I disliked it as much as I enjoyed it. The dislike part was like a trap mostly. A type of trap in which the individual could very easily fall if the set is not balanced well enough, if the one's set of beliefs has some glitches and errors encoded. Mine had! And it only takes about 2 seconds of doubt to have, the next thing you know it just magnifies and multiplies by millions, happening so fast, it almost takes an instant to travel from heaven to hell, and then you have to put in real effort to climb back to a more stable ground. Though I felt it was important and was grateful for meeting both sides of the coin aferall. I've had the chance to learn a lot about myself.

I thought about it more while integrating, and although it was so overwhelming, I figured that maybe I might have enjoyed it completely, avoiding the trap too, if I had the patience to become a more experienced traveler in time, and take the plunge after I've trained myself better. Cause now looking back at the heaven part of the experience, I'm still blown away by it's memory. Indescribable beauty!

So atm I can only say that the 150mg ticket is a ride for the seasoned spelunker only... and yeah, I believe that ain't the end.. it goes deeper than that. The question is: are you able to dive deep without harming yourself? Pleased
 
GreatArc
#4 Posted : 12/2/2017 2:15:27 AM

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concombres wrote:
You can only get so far in before you black out. When it has happened to me i was not able to take anything back from the trip. I just suddenly sat up & had the vague notion that something incredibly intense just happened.


May I ask how high a dose you were able to get in before you nothing was able to be brought back or blackouts began to overwhelm the whole experience? Also, your method specifics (e.g: Glass Vapor Genie/100mg/3 inhalations).
 
AwesomeUsername
#5 Posted : 12/2/2017 2:27:21 AM

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concombres wrote:
You can only get so far in before you black out. When it has happened to me i was not able to take anything back from the trip. I just suddenly sat up & had the vague notion that something incredibly intense just happened.


Seconded. There is a point where taking more is just wasting more DMT because you won't remember a thing anyways. Smoking it is self limiting, you are not physically able to take more than what's nessecery to get to that "maximum dose".

If you wanted to go beyond that there's always the option to inject it, but like said... why bother? Sure, banging 500mg of DMT won't kill you, but will you actually experience something you wouldn't if you just smoked 50mg+ properly? I don't think you would.

This is a perfect example of less is more.

Also I'm very familiar with your curiosity in which you constantly ask yourself. "Maybe there's more to it, I should keep pushing doses untill I find something new, something meaningfull.". Newsflash; if this is as far as it gets, by this point you already saw it's full potential and there's nothing more to it.

All you can do now is cherish the experience you have gained untill now, and use it as a jumping board to get the most out of your upcoming travels. Simply pushing doses won't reveal anything new, but as you get older and more experienced there is a high probability that after all these years you're still able to get something out of it.
 
GreatArc
#6 Posted : 12/2/2017 2:55:00 AM

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Nereus wrote:
In my experience, it is impossible to have an objective opinion regarding high dosage when it comes to smoking/vaping. The way I see it really, is that when one uses this route of administration some precentage of the end product is getting lost i.e burnt or not properly administered...


To your first point, we are using a Volcano Vaporizer (which is such an exceedingly superior method than all others for vapour inhalation that I cannot comprehend using anything else), which allows us to much more accurately measure if all the measured dose has been taken, or if there were ever remnants or unvaporized , escaped material. It is an incredible delivery system for full efficiency, speed, control, comfort, etc. I cannot imagine having the coordination to take beyond a second hit with any kid of handheld apparatus, nor deal with the timing or communication if assisted. Lying in a supine position with no physical requirement save inhaling from a check valve is critical to getting in such heavy doses.

We have been managing 3-4 deep, complete held lungfuls over the course of 60 seconds, which exhausts the bag. I appreciate not everyone has access or resources for $700-$1000 inhalation devices, but there is simply no question that some sort of bag/valve device is a complete game changer for exploration at any level.

Nereus wrote:
So atm I can only say that the 150mg ticket is a ride for the seasoned spelunker only... and yeah, I believe that ain't the end.. it goes deeper than that. The question is: are you able to dive deep without harming yourself?


We are doing our best. It might sound off-putting or reckless to some, (for us to be so concerned with increased dosages and more powerful experiences), but understand that this is very much an exploratory experiment, and many people might not have the right set of circumstances, opportunities, conditions, inclination or frankly, endurance to take such deep dives and report back for others to follow. We're really trying to not harm ourselves in the process, and doing our best to balance our safety with an unbridled curiosity to see how far this goes. I am sure that if/when a truly distressing or challenging experience occurs, it will make it much more difficult to summon the security and positive mindset that is critical to such intense exploration.





 
Felnik
#7 Posted : 12/2/2017 7:48:25 PM

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In my experience you have to be in really good physical shape to manage that level of deep diving.
I have had to stop on many occasions because I simply could not physically manage it anymore even though I knew that one more hit would take me right back in.
Being able to handle the full brunt of these trips has actually been a motivator to stay physically fit. Mental fitness is another story all together and also very important. I noticed years back that high doses or DMT without harmalas became difficult to remember and sometimes would put me in a weird state of lost limbo that I would have to work myself out of.
Another time I had a huge unmeasured dose that was way too much. It caused me to have trouble breathing as I went into the trip. I could not get my breath at all. This caused me to instantly panic and go into a fight or flight mode in my body. This triggered one of the most terrifying trips of my life still to this day. Careful measured doses became a top priority after that.
I honestly for myself feel as though I have reached the outer limits of dose on many occasions. My sense is that this is different for everyone depending on many factors. I believe that when you reach a specific state or hyperspacial place and you continue to vaporize and it only intensifies the existing hyperspacial feast, than that has to be an end game of sorts at least for that time and place.
I honestly feel like just plain DMT will only bring you so far. The synergy of Ayahuasca with DMT is where the real magic happens in my opinion. This is not to say that just plain DMT wont blow your socks off by any means I know it can. I just have found that its a clearer, deeper and more meaningful experience in combination.
I say if you can stand it and your not afraid than go for it. The trouble comes not from what you see and feel its more about how you choose to make sense out of what you see and feel.
I'd love to hear more reports of what happens with your experiementation.





The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Arthur C. Clarke


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Jees
#8 Posted : 12/2/2017 8:21:16 PM

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Felnik wrote:
In my experience you have to be in really good physical shape to manage that level of deep diving...
Yes!
Being well rested, had enough of sleep, more sleep, puts you in a comfortable position to take heat. My biggest mistake ever was a bulk of a pharma on a tired state. Just by being tired (accumulated over time as well) puts a hole in your much needed stamina. Sh*t hits the fan hard when your stamina is truly deep broken, from there on you're scarcely surviving and a most pathetic apparition in that world. The thing is, you can't change the conditions as it is a mere 'hardware' incompatibility at that point. Just like trying to drive a car when your head nudges sleepy and you wake up after 2 secs to correct the cars trajectory. At that moment you can't perform what is needed. Yes Felnik, one has to be on par with the demands.
Thumbs up


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GreatArc
#9 Posted : 12/3/2017 6:28:58 AM

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Felnik wrote:
In my experience you have to be in really good physical shape to manage that level of deep diving.
I have had to stop on many occasions because I simply could not physically manage it anymore even though I knew that one more hit would take me right back in.
Being able to handle the full brunt of these trips has actually been a motivator to stay physically fit. ...

...I say if you can stand it and your not afraid than go for it. The trouble comes not from what you see and feel its more about how you choose to make sense out of what you see and feel.
I'd love to hear more reports of what happens with your experiementation.







Some very good advice and insights. Yes, it is incredible how much of a connection I see between scuba diving and really high dose psychedelic trips: interacting with an alien ecosystem and environment in a largely weightless state. I have done quite a bit of intense cavern diving as well where you have to STAY CALM and sometimes problem solve upside down in the dark stuck in a squeeze with water leaking into your nose and eyes. I can think of nothing which could prepare the mind better for the DMT experience than doing advanced level cave and cavern scuba diving (in fact, I basically use the terms 'diving', 'deep', 'shallow', 'down there' in exactly the same sense. Even most reef dives tend to be 2 tank dives with a short break in between to hydrate and refocus up on the dive boat before switching out for a full tank and diving down to see a new section of reef. And you never know, it could be a rare fish or coral, large pelagic sea life like a bull or whale shark, a strange plant or anemone never before seen. It is so similar.

And just like you said, with scuba diving, it becomes the reason to keep oneself physically fit--you start thinking about maximizing 02 or lung capacity, breathing control and mental exercises to maximize bottom time once you start to really push the absolute limits of compression and nitrogen narcosis at depth. You have to respect your limits, stay safe, but the limits ARE there to be pushed and challenged.

Here we have a chance to experience something every bit as astonishing and alien as the most exotic dive could ever be, but even better, we do not pay for mistakes with our lives in this realm. Some emotional harm and psychological difficulty for a while, I could imagine, but the stakes are still relatively low and consequences for taking too much of any psychoactive substance is virtually benign, no matter how it might feel in the moment.

My friend and I have both agreed to actually suspend exploration for a little while, or at least spend a few weeks actually going the other way--experimenting with very low, threshold doses upright and wide awake in an active environment instead of a quiet, and dark room, lying down on a couch. Curious to see what the shallow threshold effects are like at doses low enough to talk or even move if possible.

We are curious about several experiments with tiny amounts of different herbs in the Volcano, having used mojito mint leaves, spearmint leaves, peppermint leaves and combinations of each to see which yield the most enjoyable. I am going to order some raspberry leaves, mullein, scullcap (found scullcap this summer and did not think to forage some), possibly blue lotus and see if we find a good combination to compliment the DMT for a couple of weeks from now when we resume the high dosage stuff.

Will definitely try and keep posted. Might actually begin an ongoing record of our different findings or experiences if others felt that it was worthwhile to read. I certainly would benefit from a record of other people who were specifically interested in exploring the highest doses they could take before blackout. It would give us some idea of where to expect the upper limit will be reached.
 
strtman
#10 Posted : 12/3/2017 5:13:07 PM

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In response to the title of the post, yes I have taken a maximum dose.

Inhaling 30 mg free base DMT in one single hit with my GVG, I am gone. Literally knock out.

Twice I had a baby sitter and once he told me that I was lying on the couch like a corpse. About four minutes later I regained consciousness. I can not remember anything. So taking more is meaningless.

What I do miss about your posts is a description of your trips. What is in essence the differences in your trips bases on, let’s say, 50 mg, 100 mg and your maximum dose?

I would be glad to hear about this in detail.



Light, pull, whoooOOOOMMMM
 
tatt
#11 Posted : 12/3/2017 5:54:40 PM
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strtman wrote:


Inhaling 30 mg free base DMT in one single hit with my GVG, I am gone. Literally knock out.



This. Exactly my experience with freebase and using the gvg, there's no close second method for freebase imo/ime. Clearing the entire dose in one go versus taking several hits over the course of 30sec-60sec - just lends itself to a completely different experience, can't even call it the same experience imo/ime, near instantaneous effect right from the point of getting the last bit of vapor down into your lungs, as you start to go under - rarely having time to think a single thought or any sort of reaction, mental or otherwise. Some very powerful reports on this forum from employing the gvg. Some very powerful reports also from people employing the 'clearing the dosage in one hit' method.

As far as intensity, it comes down to [ime] getting as much as you're comfortable with doing and getting it taken in as fast as possible. That's where the personal limits per the respective dosages start to really shine ime/imo.



For to be idle is to become a stranger unto the seasons, and to step out of lifes procession, that marches in majesty in proud submission towards the infinite. - Khalil Gibran



 
jbark
#12 Posted : 12/3/2017 10:34:31 PM

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tatt wrote:
strtman wrote:


Inhaling 30 mg free base DMT in one single hit with my GVG, I am gone. Literally knock out.



This. Exactly my experience with freebase and using the gvg, there's no close second method for freebase imo/ime. Clearing the entire dose in one go versus taking several hits over the course of 30sec-60sec - just lends itself to a completely different experience, can't even call it the same experience imo/ime, near instantaneous effect right from the point of getting the last bit of vapor down into your lungs, as you start to go under - rarely having time to think a single thought or any sort of reaction, mental or otherwise. Some very powerful reports on this forum from employing the gvg. Some very powerful reports also from people employing the 'clearing the dosage in one hit' method.

As far as intensity, it comes down to [ime] getting as much as you're comfortable with doing and getting it taken in as fast as possible. That's where the personal limits per the respective dosages start to really shine ime/imo.






I would even add that with the GVG, any doses above 30-40mgs are redundant. I get very strong experiences from only 15-20mgs, and rarely go beyond that. After 30mgs with this ROA, I tend to just back out, or the exerience is so fast and incomprehensible that I may as well have blacked out.

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tatt
#13 Posted : 12/3/2017 11:12:13 PM
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jbark wrote:


I would even add that with the GVG, any doses above 30-40mgs are redundant. I get very strong experiences from only 15-20mgs, and rarely go beyond that. After 30mgs with this ROA, I tend to just back out, or the exerience is so fast and incomprehensible that I may as well have blacked out.

JBArk


Totally agree, for me 30mg is incredibly powerful, especially getting the dose in one go, it definitely borders on me not being able to handle anymore, very hard to stay with it and hang on at that dosage for me, too much impossibleness happening to my monkey mind.


For to be idle is to become a stranger unto the seasons, and to step out of lifes procession, that marches in majesty in proud submission towards the infinite. - Khalil Gibran



 
Northerner
#14 Posted : 12/4/2017 2:51:35 AM

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I was thinking about this thread over the weekend. It's given me pause.

I would literally white out on those sort of massive doses GreatArc, I wouldn't even try it as I know I would remember absolutely nothing.

80-100mg of 1:1 changa on the weekend hit me so hard that when I came to I didn't even remember smoking, I had no idea how It came to be that I was tripping at that point in time. I didn't even know what I was on. To double that dose... hmmm, nah.

Maybe your vape isn't actually as effective as you think or you're not holding in your hits for long enough? "As big and held as long as possible" is an appropriate hit in my reckoning, then go back for a 2nd if desired/possible.
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gibran2
#15 Posted : 12/4/2017 3:09:08 AM

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tatt wrote:
jbark wrote:


I would even add that with the GVG, any doses above 30-40mgs are redundant. I get very strong experiences from only 15-20mgs, and rarely go beyond that. After 30mgs with this ROA, I tend to just back out, or the exerience is so fast and incomprehensible that I may as well have blacked out.

JBArk


Totally agree, for me 30mg is incredibly powerful, especially getting the dose in one go, it definitely borders on me not being able to handle anymore, very hard to stay with it and hang on at that dosage for me, too much impossibleness happening to my monkey mind.



I also agree with what is being said here. A dose of 20 – 30mg taken in a single efficient and rapid inhalation can produce unimaginably intense effects. Taking a larger dose, especially in multiple inhalations, is not a very efficient way to use DMT. Take a look at this old thread where this is discussed.
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GreatArc
#16 Posted : 12/4/2017 9:08:20 AM

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Hmmm. A few quick thoughts:

First, I am both surprised and unsurprised by people describing the GVG one-hit method, held as long as possible being the most effective. Unsurprised, since it seems that even amongst more than half of those far more experienced than me, the Glass Vapour Genie is held up as the gold standard for the DMT experience. The one-hit held as long as possible surprises me, though. Has there ever been a hit or dose so powerful that even after holding for 30+ seconds you couldn't summon the co-oridination to take a second hit (either quickly reloaded by a partner or from a second pre-loaded pipe)?

Added to which, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that you will maximize alveolar exchange after several seconds and that 3 cycles of new vapour, resetting your gas exchange cycle a couple of times would saturate in a way a single ventilation could never hope to. I fully yield that the sheer numbers of people using the GVG would indicate it is superior, but I wonder just by the numbers how many either are just so satisfied with the GVG there is no purpose in investing in an expensive machine, have never tried a Volcano, don't use it optimally, or simply had an experience with an inferior vaporizer? It is definitely an art to discovering an optimal temperature, bag volume, timing the vaporization to know when to connect the valve, crystal/herb distribution & quantities, all to culminate in collecting the most saturated and thick smoke that can be achieved, collect all available DMT in the volume you want and will fully inhale.

There is simply no dead space in the cycle and once your variables are in place, you have optimally exhausted the crystal the exact moment your collection bag reaches full volume.

I'm not married to the method, though I cannot imagine having fine motor control for a third hit using a pipe. I will likely return to the GVG as my method once I am comfortable attempting an outdoor experience where an appliance couldn't be used and see if there is a direct 1:1 translation in potency between the two methods.



As far as the specific descriptions go between experiences at lower doses and higher ones, I hope at least you fellow explorers can understand the somewhat futile (and occasionally frustrating) truth that the DMT experience is largely indescribable not far beyond entry level effects.

The best I have to contribute is this:

up to 50mg: The most challenging and difficult experiences so far have been the 'shallowest' dives. This is expressly because there is still the possibility of sub-breakthrough experience or the presence of an ego/consciousness to even perceive fear, distress, anxiety or death. Some trace ability to direct your mind/consciousness or access to your own identity to even process the experience can remain possible at this level.

(Example: "I" am looking at an impossible geometry and have some sense of reality that even allows me to be aware that something is at odds with what the senses normally would regard as possible).

beyond 50mg: Breakthrough is virtually guaranteed. Ego death is overwhelmingly likely, in vanishingly smaller flashes at higher doses. Distress or difficulty seems to be (so far, happily) impossible. Since there is no identity or semblance of a mind, the very concept of feeding an input of any kind is insensible. It would be as silly as a person who died in Paris in 1803 being distressed about a sandstorm on the surface of a planet in another galaxy.

There is also a sliding spectrum from 0-99% (as dosage increases) of either blackout or near complete amnesia. I believe that the higher the dose, at some point, there are diminishing returns of what can be brought back or summoned to your conscious mind upon return. I expect when I reach 100% the amnesia will make these trips indistinguishable from not having gone at all, my curiosity (and point of this thread) is in discovering where this upper threshold is for myself and others. I assume there must be, of course, and expect at some point 200mg would have the same effect as 300, 500, 1g, etc.

I would say that at these high doses, in seconds you feel like you rapidly sink through your body at great speed, pass quickly through the sub-breakthrough DMT realm, get shot through the gate of death and get a quick dying glimpse of the dimension beyond that one (where you can remain and interact at lower doses), and if your velocity is hard/fast enough, your impact shatters that dimension where there is simply a vague process going on. There are no minds or identities possible in there, so it is not possible to observe or record. There is just something that is not nothing.

And it is as insensible to try and draw a boundary around what "you" are in there as it would be to try and picture this:

"You realize you are the sound of some of the missing numbers everything that ISN'T red make when a sleeping year stays jealous of where a one inch long strawberry coloured kilometre used to be..."

or

"You feel how much dead fahrenheit costs when it tastes like blue, invisible wet firelight in a bottle made of fractions."

There is just a bubbling froth of properties which do not correspond, share any point of rational contact, nor map onto each other sensibly because they are too far apart and by the time the shape of the concept comes into view--it has already changed, rendering the previous conceptual part of the property or descriptor insensible and contradictory from the others. Add to this, the fact that there is no 'you' there to process these paradoxical inputs, "you" might as well be one or any or all of the properties the froth is bubbling up.

As you resurface and reacquire trace consciousness or scraps of identity, you might bring back a meagre scrap, but you ascend back up through the depths back out the dimension, through the death gate to assume ego and begin recording and interacting in the semi-conscious DMT realm much the way one would at the end of any other trip as reality is quickly restored and the DMT experience recedes out of description and sensibility.


Hope this provides even some point of contact or satisfies any curiosity in some way. I think that the more we speak about things with one another, though we may not ever be able to effectively communicate such things, there is some comfort in seeing where our experiences trigger even the slightest connection or make the incomprehensible a tiny bit more comprehensible.
 
pitubo
#17 Posted : 12/4/2017 11:31:47 AM

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GreatArc, if you want people to read your writings, I would suggest that you refrain from coloring your text. It makes text unreadable on some displays.

I doubt that holding in dmt vapors for "several seconds" is very effective. For one, it suggests that the vapors would have been breathed in only very superficially and might not have actually reached much of the aleoli effectively.

I have personally seen people unable to breakthrough because they were not inhaling deep enough. When shown how to breathe deeply and to use the technique to inhale vapors deeply, they had no problems breaking through, even using a simple bulb pipe to vape moderate amounts of dmt.

The key is to take a series of slow breathe out fully, breathe in fully cycles, to saturate yourself with oxygen and deplete of CO2. Then breathe out fully once more, light up and sloooowly inhale dmt vapors to the depth of your lungs. When enough dmt has vaporized (this happens quickly) keep breathing in slowly to pull the vapors deeper. Hold 30 seconds (you'll be blasting into hyperspace before the 30 seconds are over) and breathe out fully.

Many people are unaware that they are hyperventilating all the time, always holding on to stale air. Learn to breathe out fully and slowly.

The "third toke" myth is IMHO yet another fine example of unquestioningly deified stale TMK gospel that obstructs people more than it helps. If your basic breathing technique is good, then you do not need more than one toke. In fact taking more successive small tokes encourages hyperventilation and stressed superficial breathing, which in itself may negatively influence the dmt trip.
 
gibran2
#18 Posted : 12/4/2017 1:31:41 PM

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GreatArc wrote:
The one-hit held as long as possible surprises me, though. Has there ever been a hit or dose so powerful that even after holding for 30+ seconds you couldn't summon the co-oridination to take a second hit (either quickly reloaded by a partner or from a second pre-loaded pipe)?

This happens most of the time, and in fact is the point of taking only a single hit. Speaking from personal experience, after a single, rapid and efficient hit, especially at doses of 25 – 30mg, it is likely that one will quickly leave this world behind and often have an out-of-body experience. How do you take a 2nd hit when you are no longer in this world and no longer have a body?

I travel alone, but I’m guessing that to an external observer I would appear quite unresponsive within seconds after exhaling that single hit dose.

gibran2 is a fictional character. Any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely coincidental.
 
GreatArc
#19 Posted : 12/4/2017 1:47:41 PM

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pitubo wrote:

I doubt that holding in dmt vapors for "several seconds" is very effective. For one, it suggests that the vapors would have been breathed in only very superficially and might not have actually reached much of the aleoli effectively.

The key is to take a series of slow breathe out fully, breathe in fully cycles, to saturate yourself with oxygen and deplete of CO2. Then breathe out fully once more, light up and sloooowly inhale dmt vapors to the depth of your lungs. When enough dmt has vaporized (this happens quickly) keep breathing in slowly to pull the vapors deeper. Hold 30 seconds (you'll be blasting into hyperspace before the 30 seconds are over) and breathe out fully.

Many people are unaware that they are hyperventilating all the time, always holding on to stale air. Learn to breathe out fully and slowly.

The "third toke" myth is IMHO yet another fine example of unquestioningly deified stale TMK gospel that obstructs people more than it helps. If your basic breathing technique is good, then you do not need more than one toke. In fact taking more successive small tokes encourages hyperventilation and stressed superficial breathing, which in itself may negatively influence the dmt trip.


I did not mean to indicate holding in the breath for "several" seconds, I meant to say that within seconds, you have essentially saturated your alveolar surface and effectively have slightly 'backloaded' gas exchange to the point where holding an entire single lungful for 30 seconds could not reasonably match the level of perfusion that a second inhalation at the 20 second mark and held could facilitate. At rest, you can reasonably expect 0.3L or so of oxygen out of about 1.5L of available 02 to perfuse. Why not refill while capillary beds are saturated and backloaded?

I will definitely go back and try one-hit for maximum duration method, though. I agree with you about the breathing, and found myself using the same method I use for free diving (haha, it all comes back to diving), before taking my last inhale mindful to hold it at the glottis (and not the lips) so as to keep the vapour contained in the smallest concentrated volume of the lungs. Funny enough, as odd a picture as it paints, we also have the sitter gathering up the bag as the other inhales, so there is a slight positive pressure and expansive effect upon the lungs to get that little bit extra in. I clear the volume in 3 breaths just perfectly with a 65cm bag on a solid valve.

***For any who would like to try it, at 210C, 100mg of DMT will take from 3 second mark to about the 50 second mark before it is completely vaporized, which fills a 65cm bag in approximately 45 seconds. This means you can be a full 3 seconds early or late and still get every bit of that crystal aerosol and delivered without loss. Your bag will be saturated a completely opaque white, quite virtually like a bag stuffed to bursting with cotton in appearance. Experiment with lung volume by over-inflating your bag to the point where you reliably can take 3 deep breaths out of it, practicing with herb if desired, (but without DMT), then cinch and reduce the bag capacity slightly with ties until a perfect volume is reached. The vaporizer will fill approx 1.444444 linear cm per second at 210C, so simply divide length by 1.444 and you will have your "burn" time. (i.e: 52 linear cm bag takes approx 36 seconds to fill, but you it takes 45 seconds to vape all the DMT. You have to augment temperature up evermore slightly--do 5C increments--until your vaporization time matches the 36 seconds it takes to fill the 52cm bag. Remember that the increased temperature will reduce vaporization onset by as much a second as well).*** I should really post our trials and errors and what we've figured out in the Smoking forum to give others who want to use the Volcano our little 'lab' notes. We really had to play with a LOT of variables before figured out how to really get the very most out of this thing. Any questions from those who want to try it are welcome. I'll also try and compare subjective potency between the GVG and vaporizer at very low doses, so maybe I can throw that up in some kind of little journal or note thread I can start and add to in one of the appropriate forums.***
 
Jees
#20 Posted : 12/4/2017 3:41:26 PM

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Like others: personally I am unable to make a second hit in the GVG. I suspect a mere stretched intake process induces a sort of [short term fast tolerance] which explains the extraordinary large doses mentioned here? Just wondering. I suppose the one hit route excludes the fast-acting-tolerance playing up. Dose and depth are only partly hinged as many testimonies illustrate. Speed of assimilation and depth on the other hand have a more sound bound. This questions the focusing on 'dose'. We deal with variables that make 'dose' not the best of references. Yet it is sure a main factor!

+100mg is a lot of smoke, only way to go trough all of that is to make some of that smoke involuntarily less active?

Something Gibran posted very relevant to this thread:
Thread: Advice on dose size

GreatArc I really like your endeavors, the efforts to make it work, the courage it takes,
I tip my hat twice. Yet the discussion how much smoke is really absorbed, the side effect of a first hit on the effectiveness of the third hit, is a discussion that was inevitable to happen. Somehow I wish I could join your little team-up, I miss that helping each other, doing things alone always here now...


Disclaimer: all my posts are fiction.
 
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