Hey guys.


I'm a long time lurker and this is my first post. Sorry for my bad english, its not my first lanugage.

Some words about me.
I'm almost 30. I'm travelling with DMT since about 2 years, in the beginning less until last month graduatelly more, as i believe most of us did it.

I got some a gram of DMT from a friend 2 years ago, then made my first patch out of 250g MHRB. So you get a feeling of how "much" i travelled.
From my first selfmade dmt i made some enhanced leave. I loved the simplicity of it. No messing around with the oil burner, or worrying about if you got enough of it "in".

So i deceided to make some real change, i.e. i extracted some harmalas. My harmalas extract was mostly brown, i thought nothing of it.
Note. At the same time, i extracted the other 250g MHRH from THE SAME BATCH.

First time i took a big changa hit i tripped very well, for about 5 minutes, everything seemed right. All of a sudden the trip kind of ended... i opened my eyes, felt extremely "sober" - for taking a big changa hits 5 minutes ago.

Then all of a sudden, my visuals started getting really really dark. My cat looked like a monster, she really scared me. OEV were like the world is getting black and an interdimensional gate would open below, above and besides me.
i had a really "tingeling" computerlike sound in my ears, sounded really extraterrestial, alien-like. i had almost the same sound i breakthroughs.

in the same time my heart started beating relly really fast and hard. My hard extemely tachypnoe. it felt like my IOP is double the norm.

I swore to god i would never touch DMT again. This trip really scared the shit out me.








But as you all know... i did it again.
About a week later i sat down on my couch with a good mindset, drank a bottle of cold beer, listened to shpongle. After a while i lit a bowl of changa about the size of the last one.
And guess what. The exact same thing happened again.

So i took a break, for 1,5 months. I thought about it alot. A real f'ing lot.
I thought it maybe was because of DMT wanted me not to "abuse" it. Which i never really did, but you know...

Last Weekend i couldnt resist the call anymore, and sat down again.
Smoked a bowl of Changa about 1/3 the size of last 2.
And guess what... almost the same thing happened again, just in a smaller size.
This time it was like i got told i should be glad i havent smoked more.


Has anyone of you expierienced that same thing?
A bad trip after the initial trip? What is this?
Is there anything wrong with my Harmalas?

I have to admit, i havent tried FB DMT of this batch. As you maybe can imagine, i'm kinda scared, since i still think FB DMT is in its nature more alien than changa.

In hope to get some input!
Safe travels!
CatcheD!

What was your mindset like going in to these experiences? It seems maybe you were worried about the first dark journey while going into the second one after the break. This could very well have been what pulled you back into that same space.

I get a similar effect from changa, especially with lots of harmalas in the mix. First there is the typical dmt effect, slower than usual, then after almost reaching baseline, I get hit with another wave of open eye visuals of a completely different character, more fuzzy and organic, darker, but not in a bad way. I think this is the harmalas kicking in, as they tend to come on slower and last longer. The strange noise you mention could be the typical 'flanging' sounds heard on harmalas. Kind of like mosquitos flying around?

Anyway, I can see how this might seem a bit dark and sinister, but Ive come to quite enjoy these after effects. Maybe now you know theyre coming, you could try and work with that space and turn it into something more positive and enjoyable. I like to get up and move around during this second phase, dance, do yoga etc., after the alien intensity of the first bit, where lying or sitting still is all that's possible.

Just thought of something else, as you probably know, combining harmalas with certain other drugs, especially stimulants and ssri's can cause serious health problems such as serotonin syndrome. Even caffeine combined with harmalas could easily overstimulate you, which might explain your increased heart rate. This effect could easily send you on a more anxiety ridden trip, akin to having a panic attack.

well, prior to the second journey i was really curious. i went into it searching for an anser. and all i got was a hyperslap.


@ ijahdan

well. how shall i word it?
i really tried on my second and 3rd journey to take it well if it would happen again. But i just couldnt.
i had to focus to shut my eyes and crawled head-first into my pillow and kinda hyperventilated o calm down.

i will try the new batch FB in my vacation end of octobre and see if its in the harmalas.

my changa was something like
350 dmt 150 harmaline fb 700 leaf.

i know its really weak- but as a bong smoker i like to take real big rips. so taking 300 mgs is easy doable in 1 hit.
i did 200 mgs on my first two journeys. and 50 on the 3rd.

for clarification - i only do weed and tobacco on a regular base and i do not take any neurotransmittoraffecting medication - nor any other.

safe travels

I agree with the one caller. It's the harmalas...I take a medication and when I did changa I figured hey smoking some wouldn't be as bad as eating......well it probably wasnt...but it wasn't a good trip either....not sure if your on medications or take any other drugs or supplements or even food that could be soing this as well...

Just try it without the harmalas, and see what transpires...

Okay just fully read your one reply....so most of the stuff applying to me probably doesn't to you.

But I'd still try it without the harmala.

I've had something like this happen a few times over the years . For some unexplained reason certain blends can turn out bad. I usually keep my harmalas separate and add spice as I go in the moment . The trouble happens when I blend it altogether making Changa . Bad batches even with everything followed to the letter carefully . Mindset has nothing to do with it
Sometimes the stuff is just bad . Some can cause weird physical issues and dark negative feeling trips . I have no explanation other than the ratio of harmala to spice could be off .

@unclesyd

notable thing is, if i smoke the harmalas alone, it wont do anything for me at all.
I fondly remember doing the harmalas alone first then smoke a small dose of DMT FB and ... the trip went bad from the beginning. But i wouldnt bet my hand on this. i can't really remember.

How do i notice full mao inhibition is going on?

@Felnik

That was kinda the response i was hoping for. My leaf was a mix of chaliponga, b caapi, blue lotus and peppermint. maybe it was too much psychoactive stuff?

I just cant word how horrific and terryfying these trips were, no matter how much i tried to 'enjoy' them.

Any link to my brown harmalas? In the extraction pictorial it was more yellow/whiteish.
Any known downsides to a messy harmalas extraction? Although i wouldnt really say it was messy. Just thinking about because of the dark color of my harmalas.

safe travels!

So guys.
After a break i tried it again.

The day before yesterday. I smoked a 100mg fb joint with my gf. we dindt even finish half of it. so it was actually not really much smoked dmt.
She had a wonderful experience.
For me ...
it started mild but good. the all of a sudden my headspace changed.
i had a hard time breathing and swallowing but i was kinda sober. just had very very nwgative/terriffic thoughts if that makes sense

ill cipy this from another thread :

so yesterday i took my first dose of 1p.lsd. at first i took only a 3rd of a tab. was kinda too cautios. I didnt feel any effects after 2.5 hours.
well.. i then took another 75ug.
2.something in i had some really mild wobbling on carpets ect. and some drifting of thoughts but nothing really wild.
Then all of a sudden i had to think alot about these dmt trips and why they went bad and all that stuff...
i then i kinda got that kind of bodyload i get when my dmt trips go bad (i cant swallow etc...)
i felt that this "trip"... which wasnt even a trip will go bad aswell and started to panic...
my tthoughts looped around ending up in the hospital because im flipping out - needing a valium infusion.
and i thought of all the stuff around that... losing my job.. angry girlfriend/parents ect...
so i took 2 mgs of lorazepam and was fine after 30 minutes...


can you please tell me whats going on guys.
its almost like the molecules dont want me to take them... and punish me hard if i do...
id appreciate any input

Hi all
I know 5 HO DMT is a bit of a different compound but the computerised sound and overwhelming nature are often connected to my energy or mindset going in.For me in my example on the day of the journey i will double dose on vitamin c. Through trail and error for some reason this along with being well hydrated helps. Along with 5 minutes of breathing as deep and slow as humanly possible just before your travels. Hope theses tips are transferable and of some use.

Sounds like classic anxiety to me Catched89. Racing thoughts, rumination & irrational worry, increased pulse, sense of impending doom, lump in your throat... it's textbook mate.

There are deeper things inside us that psychedelics can bring to the surface. Some parts of life are harder than others and we have to work hard to deal with this stuff and "grow up". This process of re-evaluation an learning never stops in life. I have even asked really old people in their 80's and 90's and they still experience it. We are never truly grown up, it is an endless process of humility and rise.

At times we have to just say no and deal with out issues on a personal level. There's no magic pill or smoke to help us. When you get through your current phase and you have gotten over, accepted and understood your current life's circumstances... you will be a different person. Psychedelics will effect you differently. It's commonly called "owning your own shit" and goes a long way in the maturation process.

Some people never address this stuff, they blame other people for how they feel and they never progress. They play the victim card. That's just weak denial of personal responsibility though. We are all responsible for our own emotions, no matter what anyone else does.

I hope this helps mate. Remember that life is very long and these things will always be there for us, when the time is right.

Well, I guess you have too much on your mind when doing these substances.

You have to work on your spiritual inner works. It seems like you have some kind of deep spiritual problems.

Try to read about chakras, chakra flow, energy flow, spiritual obssesion/ attack, try to unluck some chakras and elevate your dimensional frequency.

I guarantee that this will work.

DMT is all about energy frequency, how you vibrate will define which dimension you will go during any trip. If you vibrate good energies you will for sure go to a good trip.

Look for Nanci Trivellato on youtube.

I went through what you are going through. I made 3:1 batches of changa and had some interesting and wonderful experiences. Then, one night, in the middle of a session with a friend, it turned bad. It was very painful, physically and mentally. I tried again and got the same ugliness. Darkness with piles of red and blue serpents piling on me.
After trying to re-enter a few times I got a horrible ache in my neck which lingered for a couple of days and then it spread. I ended up with a headache that lasted for two years. Starting in my neck and engulfing my head. Chronic tension headache. It eventually spread down my back.

The changa that caused this was just caapi and spice. I had added no harmalas. Just what was in the caapi leaf.

I got a distinct message on my final changa trip: "Do not burn. Vaporize."
I took a long break. I eventually cured my headache with two mushroom trips.

The first time I revisited dmt I used my vapor genie. And everything was back to normal. When I am on a run, I stop when I'm told to stop. I don't push it.
I only vaporize now and I am very careful not to overheat the spice. If I use harmalas, I use a small dose of sublingual caapi extract (15-30mg) or an even lower dose of rue extract. No more issues with headache or the sort of experiences you are describing.

Here's what I figured out: I was making weak-ish changa in an attempt to make dmt more recreational. Dmt is not recreational for me. It is purely medicinal, exploratory or spiritual. The changa made it too easy for me to enter dmt space, and I paid for it, even though I didn't really abuse it. I felt like I had found a cheat code though.

Make of this what you will, but entities told me not to burn the vine or the light. They repeatedly told me to
"drink the brew" "drink the brew" "drink the brew" "drink the brew" "drink the brew" "drink the brew"
They seem to find sublingual harmalas and vaporized dmt acceptable, but they always tell me that the big payoff will come when I "drink the brew". For real brew. Not pharma, or vine brew with added dmt extract. All of which I've done, and I still get the message at some point: "drink the brew"

I imagine the entities are just an aspect of my mind. A dogmatic aspect. I'm going to go with it anyway. I'm going to let there be a little bit of ritual and some strictures. We are dealing with magic, after all.
It's a special thing and I treat it that way. It seems to return the favor.

Also: Intention, intention, intention. Always have an intention. Even if it is an intention to look around and satisfy your curiosity. Set that intention. Then at the last moment, before you inhale, change your intention to this: Do with me what you will. It's what's gonna happen anyway. Let it happen. Surrendering is key with this stuff.
That's my advice.

One thing I found in my changa day was this: Any added substance, even at very low, inactive amounts, changes the trip in very distinct ways. Maybe it's psychsomatic, or maybe the terpenes in whatever is added can somehow change the trip. A small amount of brugmansia leaf in a batch ( I mean small like 250mg in a 3 gram batch of 3:1 changa) always made the visuals more linear, sharp and LSD like. A tiny pinch of salvia reliably turned the trips into a strange carnival. My favorite, and something I will sometimes put in the vaporizer with the crystal is part of a spike of rosemary. This gives me feminine sex entities, and bees. Lots and lots of wonderful bees. Very feminine. Very vaginal. Labial curves and forms everywhere. After a few of these experiences with added rosemary, I did a little research. I was surprised to find that rosemary has been traditionally used in menstrual matters. Interesting. Friends had similar experiences with bees and female sexual entities. Try it out.

That is a very interesting comment, Mister_Niles! There is certainly a body of experience that suggests DMT + harmalas is a key to understanding plant medicine. (I'll never look at rosemary in the same way again )

I skimmed through these posts, and am going to offer my opinions and experiences.

The blends I've made and smoked - I can't say I've ever had what the OP or some of the other members here described. I've had some heavier/darker experiences on a few occasions, but they've been a drop in the bucket as far as my overall experiences go with changa. And those darker experiences certainly weren't without a silver lining to some degree. These darker experiences had been from the same blend also, but like I'd mentioned - they were a drop in the bucket as far as the majority of my experiences go with my blends.

I think personal reactions to smoked harmalas can vary, especially when you are combining it with a very intense, reality obliterating psychedelic like dmt. Not to mention the factors of each and every persons diverse biochemical makeup and the variance in how said people react with these things, then throw in the diversity of just the dmt experience itself in with all this - it's sort've akin to a game of roulette up until a point, though I feel there's many potential factors [some not as directly perceptible] that can have equal play in how these experiences can unfold and how you choose to react in each and every second as it's happening.

I noticed you made a somewhat heavy blend of harmalas [though not as heavy as a 1:1 or something similar of dmt:harmalas] to dmt, almost a 50:50 ratio you posted. To be honest I've never went that heavy with harmalas in my changa. 250-300mg harmalas to 1g dmt - that has given me the best result over the years, and for me even with that ratio the harmalas impart very little on the experience [aside from the speed of the dmt experience itself] - versus all the times of just vaporizing freebase dmt.

Also, your personal life has SO many variable day-to-day; personal, psychological, physiological, hopes, fears, thoughts of that hour, feelings of that hour, feelings in that minute, thoughts in those coming seconds, residual feelings of earlier events in the day, smells, sounds, sights, etc, etc, etc - these are just a tiny sliver of factors that I'm sure have at least some degree of influence on how things can unfold.

From your first post (emphasis mine):

Two comments inspired by your bottle of beer (I don't want to criticize you in particular for the one bottle of beer that you casually mentioned, nor would I wish to suggest that you have a negative pattern of alcohol use, but I do want to mention these factors in a general sense):

1.) Harmalas and alcohol do not mix very well. You often read about harmalas as inhibitors of MAO-A and you will be warned about interactions with certain drugs. But here's this: harmalas also have many effects on your endogenous neurochemical balance, beyond just the serotonin alone. Then, there is the circumstance that alcohol also affects many different endogenous neurochemical subsystems. Combinations of alcohol and harmalas can bring unexpected complications, especially at higher doses of either (or with chronic use, perhaps.) As with alcohol, there are many more "common" foodstuffs that may show a less casual or benign character in combination with harmalas, the large amounts of cafeine that some people habitually consume is another example that comes to mind. If you are sensitive to harmalas, you can be hit unexpectedly hard by unforeseen interactions.

2.) Alcohol is commonly used as a relaxant and depressant drug. In many cultures, it is so common that it is often not realized that alcohol really is a drug and similarly we often tend to disregard the background of chronic tensions and emotional imbalances that alcohol is used for to self-medicate against. While I do not think that it is appropriate here to berate people for using alcohol in this way, I do feel that it should be pointed out that dmt, and to a certain degree harmalas as well, do not fit this pattern very well. It demands its own set and setting, and, as many here will strongly agree, it demands a good dose of respect. Respect both for the substance and for yourself in all aspects of your psyche. Instead of 15 minutes of forgetfulness, it brings 15 minutes of stirring-up, potentially touching you for 15 or more years after.

Apart from a suggestion to retry the harmala extraction and do a meticulous job at purification (several subsequent resaltings and rebasings), I can only advise you to listen to yourself very carefully.