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Annoying entities in pre-breakthrough realm Options
 
Exitwound
#21 Posted : 12/23/2020 9:29:13 PM

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Sorry for necroposting, but I would love to hear what original participants of this discussion (the ones that still visit nexus) think about this topic now, after some time has passed.

My own experiences tell me that not everything you meet in hyperspace can be considered a part of you. Some are definitely external and independent of your meat suit (including brain).

This conclusion has completely killed the fun part in psychedelics for me, since I probably now won't ever get to feel myself as a brave psychonaut exploring spaces. (Rather a tiny mouse in a very strange land).


 

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necromanteum
#22 Posted : 6/30/2022 2:33:15 PM

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Exitwound wrote:
Sorry for necroposting, but I would love to hear what original participants of this discussion (the ones that still visit nexus) think about this topic now, after some time has passed.

My own experiences tell me that not everything you meet in hyperspace can be considered a part of you. Some are definitely external and independent of your meat suit (including brain).

This conclusion has completely killed the fun part in psychedelics for me, since I probably now won't ever get to feel myself as a brave psychonaut exploring spaces. (Rather a tiny mouse in a very strange land).





is "necroposting" a real concern or what? I think this thread is fantastic and very well presented. I'm in a similar space as you. I've been too terrified to go back to hyperspace. I want to go back so bad, but as you may know from my intro thread, I don't know what I'd do if I returned to the same "prison" experience as last time. It was too much to handle really, and there's a real fear of not being able to return back... the positive feedback loop aspect is a real concern for me.

I would like to know people's strategies to avoid these encounters, or combat them if encountered despite proper trip ritual / methodology. Preferably both to cover all contingencies.
 
Exitwound
#23 Posted : 6/30/2022 3:48:17 PM

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I come from the different era of internet forums, so pardon my old habits Smile
imho it's totally okay to bump an old thread, unless one starts heated argument with a person long gone from the forum Smile
 
Voidmatrix
#24 Posted : 6/30/2022 3:53:34 PM

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necromanteum wrote:
is "necroposting" a real concern or what?


Eh I'd say it's contextual based on the nature of the thread and the new thing to be said. I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

I feel you both on the difficulty in approaching the depths of these experiences. Still diligently working on it myself.

necromanteum wrote:
I would like to know people's strategies to avoid these encounters, or combat them if encountered despite proper trip ritual / methodology. Preferably both to cover all contingencies.


Given that we are in their territory, it seems it may be better to learn how to cope rather than the controlling acts of avoiding or defeating. In my experience, if they want to be in the space with you, they will until they have reason to go somewhere else. My strategy is to suspend judgment about them and only say to myself how they make me feel. This seems to mitigate a lot. Instead of, they're annoying me, I'd reframe it into i feel bothered by them. There are different implications between the two statements. Also, the sooner we surrender, the more control the experience will allow us to have.

Hope this helps.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. πŸ‘½
 
dithyramb
#25 Posted : 6/30/2022 6:14:29 PM

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With thousands of rue + DMT containing plant experiences, I can only recall a few experiences where problematic negative entities were felt, and most were felt as parasites brought in to group circles by others.

I'm pretty sure working with full plant spirits is safer than working with compounds...
The consciousness of plants is a constant source of information for medicine, alimentation, and art, and an example of the intelligence and creative imagination of nature. Much of my education I owe to the intelligence of these great teachers. Thus I consider myself to be the β€œrepresentative” of plants, and for this reason I assert that if they cut down the trees and burn what’s left of the rainforests, it is the same as burning a whole library of books without ever having read them.

~ Pablo Amaringo
 
Voidmatrix
#26 Posted : 6/30/2022 6:26:05 PM

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dithyramb wrote:
With thousands of rue + DMT containing plant experiences, I can only recall a few experiences where problematic negative entities were felt, and most were felt as parasites brought in to group circles by others.

I'm pretty sure working with plant spirits is safer than working with compounds...


I certainly understand this view, however mine has evolved to include just the alkaloid still retaining the "plant spirit" do to the fact that it was the plant that synthesized the compound.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. πŸ‘½
 
necromanteum
#27 Posted : 7/18/2022 5:28:50 PM

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Voidmatrix wrote:
necromanteum wrote:
is "necroposting" a real concern or what?


Eh I'd say it's contextual based on the nature of the thread and the new thing to be said. I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

I feel you both on the difficulty in approaching the depths of these experiences. Still diligently working on it myself.

necromanteum wrote:
I would like to know people's strategies to avoid these encounters, or combat them if encountered despite proper trip ritual / methodology. Preferably both to cover all contingencies.


Given that we are in their territory, it seems it may be better to learn how to cope rather than the controlling acts of avoiding or defeating. In my experience, if they want to be in the space with you, they will until they have reason to go somewhere else. My strategy is to suspend judgment about them and only say to myself how they make me feel. This seems to mitigate a lot. Instead of, they're annoying me, I'd reframe it into i feel bothered by them. There are different implications between the two statements. Also, the sooner we surrender, the more control the experience will allow us to have.

Hope this helps.

One love



It does help a little. Like, I would say I understand the power of contextualization, and putting effort toward adopting different perspectives. While, it has made the overall burden of memories less manic (especially with the passage of time), this reframing of an experience is a difficult thing to completely embody when I get anywhere near the same "headspace" during my last trip. Just taking some delta 8 edibles and no matter what the circumstance, I'll always reach a point where I start feeling anxious and paranoid. I can get over it, but on something more powerful, I just don't have the confidence. Like I honestly have never heard of stories of people being possessed by entities, but the fear I just cant completely rationalize out of my psyche.

The trip in question, was wholly monumental, and life-changing to varying degrees. If I can say anything about it... it would be the trip felt like a complete experience; the good, the bad and the ugly... they were all there. And there was a feeling of something resembling rememberance, and a feeling like I had awoken to a much more vast reality where beings of immense power reside. And somehow, whether through my actions, or my ancestry (at one point I felt that this was indeed a part of the game), there is a hierarchy of beings that get up to some wild shit. Experiences like you wouldn't believe... and way more vast and at levels most humans would find absurd, unbelievable, and would probably go insane or kill themselves if they were aware of it.

SOMEBODY has to have some answers. Or is this some kind of forbidden to speak about, cosmic game, where we only discuss "truth" in the darkest inner circles of special "orders"? Lets just forget about objectivity and subjectivity, and the skeptic stuff for a moment (or labels like schizophrenia), because if it can be real in the consciousness, as real as my waking, daily life is to me (in some ways more so, and others not as much), then what are we talking about here?

You seem like a smart person from what I've read in your posts Voidmatrix. But I'm reach out to you, or ANYONE, who has some answers. Anyway, I don't know if you've read the trip report in question. It looks like a lot have based on the view count, but I don't think the Intro area is the perfect place for it either. Although, at this point it is what it is. I've done my damnedest to recreate the experience for everyone, but my skill with language / writing is not up to the task. I don't know if anyone's is. Still, I could use some help from someone out there.
 
Voidmatrix
#28 Posted : 7/18/2022 6:08:25 PM

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I want to revisit your experience before providing a direct response, in order to accurately and effectively address your concerns the best I can. So will respond after work.

However, point me to which post you would like moved and let me know where to move it to and I'll migrate it for you.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. πŸ‘½
 
Tomtegubbe
#29 Posted : 7/18/2022 8:31:26 PM

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Hi necromanteum, I don't know if I can give you the exact answers you are looking for, but here are some of my thoughts.

DMT is very powerful substance and seems like it does give most of us more information than we can handle. I used to vaporize it, but the experiences were repeatedly too much, so I switched to ayahuasca/pharmahuasca to build up my understanding bit by bit. I had some very remarkable experiences with vaporized DMT but there were too many instances where it felt like I'm seriously stretching the boundaries of my sanity, so I quit.

Psychedelics like some other spiritual practices (including intense meditation) can leave us more "open" than is comfortable or we are able to handle. If that happens, it's best to focus on very mundane and ordinary things and take it easy on the spiritual stuff. There's plenty of time to come back to the mysteries later on when you feel like your mind is stable.

That being said, phenomenologically DMT seems to open up a portal to a world that is populated by various spirits and entities who come in all colors and hues. Various spiritual and mythical traditions talk about these, but for a common person they are rarely accessible. Sometimes that reality comes through in times of extreme stress, near the loss of a loved one, or some exceptional dreams. From a neuropsychological point of view this is due to a system of neural connections called default mode network (DMN) that is active in our awake-state and enables the rational thinking and labeling our experiences. Psychedelics and other mind altering practices reduce the activity of the DMN which seems to open the mind to a more dream like and symbolic interpretation of reality.

The big mystery is that where do all these experiences come from. Are they all just in our heads or are we accessing some external independent reality? Are the archetypal figures (jesters, succubi, elves) something that are coded in our DNA or is it some collective consciousness we are building up as we go?

It may be that we cannot quite label those experiences as either internal or external. Maybe they coexist in some shared space with our sentiences, maybe they are dependent on us for existing (at least in the symbolic forms they take). It seems like the more experienced one becomes in navigating the hyperspace the more control they have over the visions and even the entities. Lots of what we go through is projection of our fears and desires (like in our dreams), but then there are entities that can't be pushed around (the jesters have been like that for me).

I try to be as respectful as possible to the people I encounter at my trips, but if they're disrespectful towards me, it's not rude to ask them to leave or just ignore them. Often, however, we must give some attention to them and look them into the eye first. It seems like whatever they are they have some kind of existence of their own and should not be despised or looked down.

In the material world we humans appear to be on the top of the heap but in the spiritual world this doesn't seem quite the case. There are entities that are very powerful and whose power can be difficult to match without training.

Developing your mental stability and some meditative skills, especially equanimity (upekkha) can help a lot in these interactions. However, if you feel like you are constantly out of control with these encounters, then it's probably not a good idea to put yourself in to situations that make you uneasy.

Take your time. πŸ™
My preferred method:
Very easy pharmahuasca recipe

My preferred introductory article:
Just a Wee Bit More About DMT, by Nick Sand
 
necromanteum
#30 Posted : 7/18/2022 11:37:29 PM

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Voidmatrix wrote:
I want to revisit your experience before providing a direct response, in order to accurately and effectively address your concerns the best I can. So will respond after work.

However, point me to which post you would like moved and let me know where to move it to and I'll migrate it for you.

One love



it's my introduction post. it's more of a trip report. since I'm promoted, i don't know if I still need that thread there? Although it does seem to reach more people there than deeper in the forum. here's the post >> https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=96916

after many edits, it no longer even fits into a single post completely (so I added a .txt attachment). If you want to direct msg me, as I don't want to overtake this thread with off-topic shop talk, so to speak.
 
necromanteum
#31 Posted : 7/19/2022 12:00:07 AM

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Tomtegubbe wrote:
Hi necromanteum, I don't know if I can give you the exact answers you are looking for, but here are some of my thoughts.

DMT is very powerful substance and seems like it does give most of us more information than we can handle. I used to vaporize it, but the experiences were repeatedly too much, so I switched to ayahuasca/pharmahuasca to build up my understanding bit by bit. I had some very remarkable experiences with vaporized DMT but there were too many instances where it felt like I'm seriously stretching the boundaries of my sanity, so I quit.
...

The big mystery is that where do all these experiences come from. Are they all just in our heads or are we accessing some external independent reality? Are the archetypal figures (jesters, succubi, elves) something that are coded in our DNA or is it some collective consciousness we are building up as we go?

It may be that we cannot quite label those experiences as either internal or external. Maybe they coexist in some shared space with our sentiences, maybe they are dependent on us for existing (at least in the symbolic forms they take). It seems like the more experienced one becomes in navigating the hyperspace the more control they have over the visions and even the entities. Lots of what we go through is projection of our fears and desires (like in our dreams), but then there are entities that can't be pushed around (the jesters have been like that for me).
...

Developing your mental stability and some meditative skills, especially equanimity (upekkha) can help a lot in these interactions. However, if you feel like you are constantly out of control with these encounters, then it's probably not a good idea to put yourself in to situations that make you uneasy.

Take your time. πŸ™


appreciate the response. although handling the situation in the manner you speak is the route I, more or less, had anticipated/suspected, but again I have to stress how completely out of control my mind was. I had no ability to stop, retreat and take stock of the situation. Like I say in my report, the context of it was that this intelligence had me trapped in a "pocket of hyperspace", like a padded cell. And the purpose for that was clear; so that there would be nowhere for me to run and escape, nowhere to hide. And the experience was so overwhelming I basically had no mental capacity left to process anything else other than what I was enduring. I mean, I couldn't even compartmentalize a small part of myself/ my consciousness to halt the process and regroup (in other words like a panic room most people have in their minds where they can go, maintain a semblance of sovereignty, and thus block out thoughts or sensory input to collect themselves).

What was happening is what's described as a positive feedback loop. And it became more intense, fast, and reinforcing of itself. I couldn't "fight", nor could I "accept" the circumstances; there simply were no choices, no options, no rationalizations. Just a pure, unadulterated mega-hell battering of my consciousness that completely took over. The only thing I could retain of myself is that I was a "MYSELF" and this attack was happening to "ME". About as basic as a human bios can be for "individual" operation, to use a pc metaphor.


Anyway, I do like your perspective on the experience being both internal and external, as it felt like that. I was pretty well aware that my mind was filling in the gaps during the experience, but I think in order to understand my perspective... you might want to read my intro > https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=96916

warning it's very long winded, but I've been told that people really appreciated me sharing it with the forum. for whatever that's worth.
 
fink
#32 Posted : 7/19/2022 1:12:09 AM
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I know the feeling of the hellish trips that feel like they are the only reality that has ever been and ever will be. Always I come back and am able to chuckle at my own weakness and the self inflicted nature of where I have just been.

It's a wonderful gift that so many of us seem to experience wondrous things on the first trip with DMT. Personally I have never had the candy land of colour trip, regretfully devoid. Have had some incredible experiences often with wonderful positive outcomes. Seen impossible things, connected with what feel like outside creatures, marvelled at geometry. But never bright colourful paradise.


When using DMT most often I feel like I'm in the dark alley behind the main street.

I'm looking for trouble, no doubt. Why else would I be here?

If I want comfort and ease I'd just avoid taking drugs all together.

The scary stuff, the overwhelming, the bizarre, sickening and seemingly pointless experiences I have come to think of as a continued initiation.

Why should I assume that all I need do is smoke some molecule whenever I feel like it and be transported into some heavenly pasture of beauty where all the secrets of existence are laid out for me to peruse at my leisure?

No way! Whatever this is that we do, it's a very old club with strict criteria for membership and we are all very young and dumb. We deserve, at least sometimes, to be mocked, played with, twisted up and spat out to consider our actions properly.


But don't break. Every initiate throughout all time was forced to breaking point to test their mettle. To assume that we just deserve the infinite love and knowledge thing anytime we demand it is just absurd.

I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.
 
Tomtegubbe
#33 Posted : 7/19/2022 10:20:55 PM

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fink wrote:
I know the feeling of the hellish trips that feel like they are the only reality that has ever been and ever will be. Always I come back and am able to chuckle at my own weakness and the self inflicted nature of where I have just been.

It's a wonderful gift that so many of us seem to experience wondrous things on the first trip with DMT. Personally I have never had the candy land of colour trip, regretfully devoid. Have had some incredible experiences often with wonderful positive outcomes. Seen impossible things, connected with what feel like outside creatures, marvelled at geometry. But never bright colourful paradise.


When using DMT most often I feel like I'm in the dark alley behind the main street.

I'm looking for trouble, no doubt. Why else would I be here?

If I want comfort and ease I'd just avoid taking drugs all together.

The scary stuff, the overwhelming, the bizarre, sickening and seemingly pointless experiences I have come to think of as a continued initiation.

Why should I assume that all I need do is smoke some molecule whenever I feel like it and be transported into some heavenly pasture of beauty where all the secrets of existence are laid out for me to peruse at my leisure?

No way! Whatever this is that we do, it's a very old club with strict criteria for membership and we are all very young and dumb. We deserve, at least sometimes, to be mocked, played with, twisted up and spat out to consider our actions properly.


But don't break. Every initiate throughout all time was forced to breaking point to test their mettle. To assume that we just deserve the infinite love and knowledge thing anytime we demand it is just absurd.


Thank you fink for this! This is very well put.

This is challenging, but with challenge comes the reward. The risk is that if your mind is very vulnerable piecing it together takes a lot of work. Healthy lifestyle helps here a lot.

Also, one thing Ayahuasca has helped me with is that I have got rid of most of my nightmares. I used to be helpless when those things happened on dreamverse, but now that I have learned to face them while being conscious they don't scare me anymore and I'm not providing them energy with mg fears so they dissipate.
My preferred method:
Very easy pharmahuasca recipe

My preferred introductory article:
Just a Wee Bit More About DMT, by Nick Sand
 
necromanteum
#34 Posted : 7/25/2022 5:33:47 PM

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fink wrote:

I'm looking for trouble, no doubt. Why else would I be here?

If I want comfort and ease I'd just avoid taking drugs all together.

The scary stuff, the overwhelming, the bizarre, sickening and seemingly pointless experiences I have come to think of as a continued initiation.

Why should I assume that all I need do is smoke some molecule whenever I feel like it and be transported into some heavenly pasture of beauty where all the secrets of existence are laid out for me to peruse at my leisure?

No way! Whatever this is that we do, it's a very old club with strict criteria for membership and we are all very young and dumb. We deserve, at least sometimes, to be mocked, played with, twisted up and spat out to consider our actions properly.


But don't break. Every initiate throughout all time was forced to breaking point to test their mettle. To assume that we just deserve the infinite love and knowledge thing anytime we demand it is just absurd.



Well, as much as I hate to admit it, this is true. Ever since I was small, I was intrigued by "evil", or the perception of evil. From the graphic depictions in the Exorcist (I saw this movie at an extremely young age and was completely awestruck and baffled by it) and the first couple Hellraiser films, to me sneaking off to read Revelations from the Bible in secret... tales of a hydra like dragon (leviathan?) adorned with diadems, the dark pit, and the whole nine yards.

So, I guess this applies to me as well. I don't feel like it was apart of my makeup when born, but forced onto me through an attempt to understand my own suffering and trauma as a child, but also at large in the world. I came to marvel at the bloody corporeal spectacle of nature itself and humans role in it throughout history. I would use time during elementary school mandated trips to the library to look at all the books on sharks and dinosaurs too. There's a horrible awesomeness to it, that I guess I've tried to deny as I've gotten older and reattuned into my empathic self (and abilities).

I think the problem with my trip is that it wasn't just a spectacle, i was the victim. And acknowledging my helplessness and the reality of being in contact with something intent on bashing me up only seemed to reinforce the issue like a positive feedback loop as I spoke of before. There were no forthcoming answers as to why or the reason for it. Just the overwhelming fear that I had opened up a pandora's box and now the horrible brutality can't be unseen, can't be unknown... and that this could potentially spell my doom, in some eternal sense.

I feel like I'm playing a dangerous game, as if by some cosmic grace I've been allowed to CHEAT my fate and continue to live by attempting to "forget" or bury down the knowledge with some mental acrobatics. I feel like I'm teetering on a precipice and perhaps one more trip like that could be my last... the last thing I ever do before meeting a horrific unending hell to come.

Sometimes I wonder if that's not a trickster thought though. And that I have to give a level of consent for it to occur. My thoughts range wildly on the topic at times, but there are no concretes and perhaps that unsureness is the most frightening aspect of all. What will be my fate? Are we caught in a matter matrix and do I need to feed the machine? Be productive in some manner to the machination of it in order to continue living as a sovereign self-contained consciousness, and if I don't play that game (the rat race of life, so to speak), then perhaps I'm just on borrowed time, as I'm now in my early 40s and feel the looming shadow of time/age begin to close in. At times it feels all too overwhelming to contemplate, and on some level it's like a nasty trick that's been played on me.
 
fink
#35 Posted : 7/28/2022 2:47:50 AM
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The concept of hell must surely terrify any mortal soul. Which is why it was used as a threat to force compliance for so many thousand years in human cultures. I definitely agree with your notion of needing to consent. Tricking ourselves into consenting certainly.


I've long since believed that heaven and hell are ludicrous as concepts. How naive of us to believe there could be an exact tipping point where we either get eternal pleasure or eternal suffering.

To me it always seemed much more likely that we get both at the same time. We carry our personal heaven and hell along with us on this ride called life every moment. It is dynamic, forever in a shifting balance, our appraisal of how we feel about who we are.

And since every new moment gives the chance to be a person we like it should be simple enough to keep the rudder pointed away from eternal guilt and damnation.



I tend to feel the opposite end of that spectrum you mention. I'm also around 40, aware of the impending end. But for me it is the fact that I am alive at all, that any of this nonsense exists, which un-nerves me the most. I hope that one day there will be a conclusion to existing here. Perhaps even an explanation that satisfies the curiosity even if only for an instant.

The worst hell I can imagine is being stuck here for eternity having absolutely no clue what the hell is going on.
I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.
 
necromanteum
#36 Posted : 7/28/2022 7:55:28 AM

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fink wrote:
The concept of hell must surely terrify any mortal soul. Which is why it was used as a threat to force compliance for so many thousand years in human cultures. I definitely agree with your notion of needing to consent. Tricking ourselves into consenting certainly.


I've long since believed that heaven and hell are ludicrous as concepts. How naive of us to believe there could be an exact tipping point where we either get eternal pleasure or eternal suffering.

To me it always seemed much more likely that we get both at the same time. We carry our personal heaven and hell along with us on this ride called life every moment. It is dynamic, forever in a shifting balance, our appraisal of how we feel about who we are.

And since every new moment gives the chance to be a person we like it should be simple enough to keep the rudder pointed away from eternal guilt and damnation.



I tend to feel the opposite end of that spectrum you mention. I'm also around 40, aware of the impending end. But for me it is the fact that I am alive at all, that any of this nonsense exists, which un-nerves me the most. I hope that one day there will be a conclusion to existing here. Perhaps even an explanation that satisfies the curiosity even if only for an instant.

The worst hell I can imagine is being stuck here for eternity having absolutely no clue what the hell is going on.


I agree with your assessment on unending hell or heaven, from a cognitive standpoint. I always have, but I've experienced my hyperspatial human versions of it so I know the possibility for it to manifest is possible. And I've, at least qualitatively, grasped what time can be like when constricted and dilated, so spans of existence can seemingly feel like their own eternities, even if not in the axiomatic sense of the word/concept. Still... just because something seems like an absurdity conceptually, doesn't necessarily negate the possibility for it as I've come to understand. So there's always that lingering what if, unfortunately.

as for being here, there, or anywhere, would probably feel like a pit of despair if stuck for an eternity. this "matter matrix" reality does feel rather ridiculous when i think about it though. the fact that we exist as matter, born needing shit like air, food, etc. at all seems like an incredible fuck up. where we exist, at this density/vibration or whatever they want to say these days, life is all pretty much an exercise in imposition. in order for me to exist all kinds of things need to meet their end in my service, so I have a net cost... and of course comes the opposite end of coin as to what i offer. i can tell you it's not much.

perhaps the absurdist thing of all is having no memory of agreed to this game of weights and measures, and that for all intents and purposes it feels like I have to justify my time here by offering something, or "making the most of it". to ask to simply be and exist in peace, feels like a transgressive and abominable thought to most humans I know and interact with, at the most fundamental of levels.

perhaps death will be like a major off switch in one sense, and grand remembrance in some other. that's about the best approximation i can make at this point. although there are some fun theories like My Big Toe from Tom Campbell that give me a little hope and amusement at times.
 
fink
#37 Posted : 7/28/2022 10:17:49 PM
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Is it possible that the hell you experienced was only a few minutes long and therefore was not a representation of any eternal state? Simply a representation of a very temporary state that you happened to find yourself in.

I know where you're coming from, I've often pondered on the fact that if a strong trip could represent after death experience then this particular trip would be terrible for eternity. But I have to remind myself the difference between my temporary experiences and the time frame of eternity is unimaginable.

Convincing ourselves that a 5 minute experience is certain to be what an eternity in the void would be like is pointless. Especially if it makes us despair the time between then and now.

Even more appealing to me is to keep visiting the dark trips and learn how to navigate them. If it really is a representation of what comes next then might as well get good at dealing with and escaping it now.
I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.
 
Tomtegubbe
#38 Posted : 7/28/2022 11:27:21 PM

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This may be a bit off from your conversation, but I want to share some of my thoughts on hell.

I have had some experience with some very nasty realms. One experience that I was convinced I am looping an eternity in damnation and the grace when portal back to this reality opened.

Now that I think of the time I had those experiences, I was bound with darkness and that darkness became manifest in the trips.

I don't know what happens after this body dies, but I feel like whatever is unresolved in that moment will continue in a form or another, at least in other people.

Through meditation and enormous help of Ayahuasca, I have been able to crawl through those fearsome realms and resolve many of my issues. And even though there's still lots of work to be done, I feel like I'm on a path to salvation.

In Buddhism hell realms are not eternal. Nothing is permanent in that thought. But sometimes your karma forces you to go through them. Even if we don't take it literally, this life offers plenty of opportunities to experience darkness. But the darkness is not eternal and immutable and the bad that binds us, can be unbound.

As real as is the darkness are the moments of peace, happiness and freedom when you go through the entanglements that have caused you pain and are able to let go little by little.
My preferred method:
Very easy pharmahuasca recipe

My preferred introductory article:
Just a Wee Bit More About DMT, by Nick Sand
 
Voidmatrix
#39 Posted : 7/29/2022 12:20:45 AM

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I feel like common western conceptions of Hell are derived from several disparate sources.

Sheol in the Hebrew Bible is the dark place in which souls reside after leaving the body.

Hel is the ruler of the underworld in Norse mythology.

Dante's Inferno brought about further descriptions of Hell that were subsumed into Western Christian thinking including the idea of it being eternal.

I'm sure there's details, aspects, and contributions that I'm missing. I just find the overall idea interesting considering it's roots and how much the idea is conditioned into large subsets of people the world over.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. πŸ‘½
 
necromanteum
#40 Posted : 7/29/2022 2:13:02 PM

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fink wrote:
Is it possible that the hell you experienced was only a few minutes long and therefore was not a representation of any eternal state? Simply a representation of a very temporary state that you happened to find yourself in.

I know where you're coming from, I've often pondered on the fact that if a strong trip could represent after death experience then this particular trip would be terrible for eternity. But I have to remind myself the difference between my temporary experiences and the time frame of eternity is unimaginable.

Convincing ourselves that a 5 minute experience is certain to be what an eternity in the void would be like is pointless. Especially if it makes us despair the time between then and now.

Even more appealing to me is to keep visiting the dark trips and learn how to navigate them. If it really is a representation of what comes next then might as well get good at dealing with and escaping it now.



Quantitatively speaking, you are correct. In an accounting of time by an outside observer, the actual span of time would have likely been 15-30 mins in which my experience of a wholly conscious-consuming hell took place. When I say, conscious-consuming I mean somewhere around 75-90% of my negative end spectrum emotions, and unpleasant somatic responses, were under intelligent control by some presence, as if mere dials on an electronic control panel could be, AND WERE, cranked from baseline straight through to 7-10 range, entirely at its discretion). The presence made itself known to me in various "colors" (like having an internal dialogue between yourself and a split personality, and through projected mental imagery), for which I can put it simply as telepathy.

I would strongly disagree with the "convincing oneself" comment, at least as it could pertain to my trip and an accurate interpretation of the experience. What I'm saying is that I had an experience where the common thread throughout was how drastic (the perception of) time was manipulated; and how it was centrifugal to every other aspect of my experience. Again, from an axiomatic standpoint (and categorical, linguistic understanding) of the word "eternity", my experience couldn't possibly meet the criteria to satisfy usage of the word. I concede this now just as before.

But what I'm saying to you, is that I was in a place which felt more like it was OUTSIDE of time. A qualitative experience of existing within a single "moment" between the frames (between the arrows of time), or like a pocket of space between the spaces/space-time, so to speak. And I realize this sounds like a piss-poor explanation as I'm typing this out to you... but the experience is not something for which I talked myself into. Worked out in some cognitive manner? That's harder to refute.

I can only say it was more like the situation in which I found myself, where there was no "EUREKA" moment, or sudden realization. It was more like having your consciousness find itself suddenly within a large neuro-net, and the "knowledge" was simply a pre-existing condition/code. So kind of like remembering a great truth, but also not quite like remembering either because there's a sudden realization which happens when remembrance occurs, like A crossing a threshold to B. This was more like A is, and always has been, hidden within B, but compartmentalized in a sense. Except the boundary cordoning off A within B is imaginary. IDK man, I give up. I feel like I've gone off the deep end and made things muddier rather than clearing it up. I think I understand where you're coming from though, and that the forum probably sees this kind of report/explanation from many people convinced of their own interpretations.

I too would like to learn how to retain my power during dark trips to explore them, as I feel there is great understanding to be found within.
 
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