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The General Blocks and Dangers of Consciousness Exploration Options
 
Espurrr
#1 Posted : 6/23/2017 7:35:47 AM




Posts: 403
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Last visit: 09-Mar-2024
Location: Iran
What follows is not fixed, the discussion is open and the perspective is not authoritarian
what follows is concerns of an individual, no acclaims of truth, only personal experience
what follows will contain ideas such as:
1-delusion of free will.
2-actual dangers of consciousness exploration and the idea of implementing preparation, such as madness, unhand-able pressure on individual structure and etc.
3-semi-elitist idea that consciousness exploration in its full spectrum might not be for everybody, such as people who aren’t equipped with primary tools of exploration.
4-spacyness of the psychedelic community and overflow of delusional states of mind, simply ungrounded.
5-possible recognition of corruption brought by crude philosophies of consumerism and materialism into consciousness exploration by western explorers, such as using micro doses of these substances for “innovation” and “productivity”.
6-targeting certain valued individuals by the masses as unknowingly misguided in the sense that their state of being propagated difficulty and hardship rather than harmony and subtleness.

caution: if the individual reading this is prone to intellectual baiting and insulted by mere theory being placed in public, please refrain from reading.

a word with people who too feel the same way about exploration:
your input and your criticism, your perspective and last but not least your experience is welcomed, valued and most of all, needed
please, dedicate a portion of your free time to respond if you feel strongly for this.

The General Blocks and Dangers of Consciousness Exploration:

1-personal blocks

“initiation of ordinary person into consciousness exploration and tools regarding it”


language function “adjective and noun, verb and adverb”:
the first and most fundamental block, language, seems to be a very deep rooted ideology that creates resistance in acceptance of the idea that, the real world does not follow conceptuality and language function, acceptance of happenings without cause, separation of thing and process, and resistance in acceptance of thing/process unity.

linear time:
very common situation in psychology is individual’s attachment to past which causes rigid series of mental conditions, mainly depression and derivatives and anticipation of the future which causes volatile series of mental conditions, mainly anxiety and derivatives.

discrete notions in linear time:
precise awareness of time, such as milliseconds, moments, lack of continuous notions of time such as flow, lack of space/time bound notions such as regarding here and now as the same concept, which causes separation themed mental conditions, mainly schizophrenia and derivatives.
“ideologies that are prone to backfire into an individual’s mind”

sociopolitical blocks:

ideologies as innovative consumerism, ungrounded expectation focused on the tool rather than the center, in other words escaping responsibility by leaving it to the tool/plant:
idea of self-improvement, innovation and its toxic imprint on human psyche is not a recently found process in which many individuals are trapped, many of those whom initiate with consciousness exploration and the available tools come seeking improvements, as if they were incomplete, sick or broken, or that there is somehow an standard of what they should be, sincere and modest as the notion is, that is only the layer of disguise, imagine ones frustration, sense of being lost, self-blame and all sorts of self-destructive processes taking place simply because one cannot accept themselves as what they are, because what they think they are is only a delusional image.

ridiculousness of current culturized movement of micro dosing for productivity and innovation:
recently people at M.A.P.S and some others regarding them, which by the way all of whom have extended experience and academic backgrounds, have started implanting these tools into self-destructive ideologies in pursuit of silly innovation and productivity(ultimate goal being legalization and vaporizing the stigma around these tools), as if the human psyche is a machine to be squeezed for product, this simply goes against the very idea of peace, if the individual mind cannot be at peace, then the collective cannot be at peace.

“consciousness exploration viewed as a race”
seeing the end of it:
lots of people, more often beginners than veterans, trying to see the “end” of it, exposing their psyche to insanely violent forms of exploration at insane doses, long-term ignorance of the psychedelic community around cultivated mental problems caused by these practices, people easily slipping into states of polarity and depression / mania completely ignored cause that’s just a Sunday morning these days.

Dangers:

1- the doors of perception opened, not cleansed:
to discuss this, I’ll have to make some circumstantial definitions
first, one’s awareness here is considered a self-reflection of the universe on itself
second, this awareness is spacial, hence the doors of perception regarding in what layer does the universe desires to perceive itself
third, there are infinite doors, and few actually open, and not all necessarily cleansed

of course, plants and artificial substances are mere tools (with their respective features and extent) that are usable by anybody, that is to say children can use it as it has been so in the amazon and many backward savage tribes that aren’t engaged in the psychosis of our era, that is to say all men and women, at any age can use these, with any mental condition, anyone can use these tools, not because its their birthright or they should because people are shit and we need to change, but merely because these are tools, and it is in nature of tools to be used, now by this perspective we come to a layering of issues
-when is it wise to not use these tools?
its often said by people who have extensive backgrounds into using these tools that people with mental problems must not use psychedelics, sometimes with the mention that guidance of a professional might make it possible for them to use these tools beneficially, but mostly the issue is avoided, possibly because no one that is talking is actually equipped to help these people or in other words, equipped to show them their insides clearly so they can figure it out themselves.

-its of course clear that people with mental illnesses can greatly benefit these tools, yet not all do and some healthy individuals by practice fall into difficult states, how is the circumstances leading to this categorized and dealt with?
aside from professional advice on who should make use of these tools, certainly portions of people give lighter than 2 feathers of care to what a professional says and do use them, which is where we get these miraculous events in which mental conditions vaporize and people fall into equilibrium, the probable cause of this avoidance is that observations aren’t really being made on these individuals hence any professional doesn’t have sufficient data to work with, which is also the same factor contributing to people who by misuse and practice of these explorations cause themselves difficulty.

-when are the masses going to let go of the silly notion that people under 18 or 21 should not use these psychedelics as infrequent usage of them has hardly any potential to cause harm at all, and will coming of age rituals be implemented in our families and communities?
starting ages of coming of age rituals range from 9-10 years old to +50, so there really isn’t a line to define what coming of age actually means in terms of age, it simply is a way to catalyze maturity and probably renew the sense of wonder/mystery in one’s life, hence you see, teenagers avoiding life is the most huge cry for help the world has seen in this era but since their parents are basically old looking children too they get no help, which means they either have to figure it out with great difficulty in most cases or waste their life away in confusion.

-when and how the community is going to take responsibility for people whom have in practice harmed themselves and locked themselves in not so healthy states of mind?
in Amazonia shamans and medicine men are proficient in their art, which means this is nothing impossible, and the main barrier is probably foundational differences between the Amazonian and the modern civilized man if civilized means anything, that is to say a very fast and efficient (efficient being what modern man is obsessed with) is to actually go and learn from these people, and stop being a bitch, people assume as if they are denied guidance.

-making sure people understand what capable of traveling with these tools means, and to understand that contentment also applies to consciousness exploration, this is not an authoritarian approach, its simply stating that the individual themselves may want to accept that there is a “enough” in consciousness exploration too and when they notice it they won’t ignore it.
this is the part of the subject I personally feel touchy about, it is very true that challenging experiences are main source of learning and expansion/growth, but as a double edged sword it is also a destructive force depending if the individual’s structure allows it, just like John C.Lily presented it, self-destructive processes that are released to destroy the self, and exist in everyone at a subconscious level, so my take on the matter is that it really comes down to the individual’s judgement, and if they got none, they better get some.


2-inflation of a delusional mind

delusional people in psychedelic history:

Tim Leary, Terence McKenna, and some others that will make this article too long to read if mentioned:
not to yuck anyone’s yum, but hear this out
couple of ambitious people discover powerful tools of consciousness exploration
they talk about it, fall into the persona, get paid for it, come to accept it as reality
for sure a lot of their work was groundbreaking to western society and literally changed the culture, but the culture was delusional, it still is delusional, and the gnostic non-belonging of McKenna’s tone was also delusional, this is the world of man, and everyone belongs right where they are, it’s just a matter of surrender and acceptance, so in reality these empowered individuals fueled their delusional perception, and fueled a whole generation’s delusion too, it’s easy to believe we speak the truth, and that has proven to be false since the dawn of language, so take Aristotle’s word for it and avoid poets, or if your kick is moar in the far east, lao tzu feels the same about the matter.

basic principles of delusion and free will:
the process of universal self-reflection which is supposedly any fragmented awareness, such as us, when this sort of fraktaline cycle is ignored, there emerges the idea of free will, which means one is separate from the universe and has his own influence on the world, just like the tao te ching way of explaining it, free will is alike swimming against the current as fish, you’re carried anyway
delusion however has a more complex nature, it is created by the individual if individuality means anything beyond fragmented awareness, hence its nature is fed and will persist as long as the individual persists to create it, which sort of blurs the line between reality and delusion, hence the constant advice of “shut up” from numerous spiritual and mystical teachings.

this material is open to add opinion and content to, and I will edit this with your perspective provided it contributes to the discussion <3
 

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RAM
#2 Posted : 6/23/2017 8:01:19 AM

Hail the keys!


Posts: 553
Joined: 30-Aug-2014
Last visit: 07-Nov-2022
I appreciate your measured and cautious approach to consciousness exploration, as such an approach is necessary to proceed in a safe, meaningful, and effective manner. It can be too easy for many to get very excited when stumbling upon something so powerful and meaningful and then become a kid in a candy shop with a credit card - everything will be yummy now but there will be debts later!

I agree with most of your identified blocks and dangers and have experienced/seen some firsthand. At times it has been difficult for me to differentiate between meaningful psychedelic-influenced content and gibberish/pseudoscience, as there is a certain amount of contrarianism built into the very idea of ingesting these substances that throw off our standard, unaltered state of consciousness.

It is always a tough line between how much mainstream societal institutions are flawed and corrupt and how extraordinary claims (usually resulting from wild, subjective, psychedelic experiences) require extraordinary evidence, so thank you for outlining some important missteps that can result from this kind of exploration.

espahbodforghani wrote:
ridiculousness of current culturized movement of micro dosing for productivity and innovation


I am not in total agreement about productivity and innovation being undesirable results of consciousness exploration, however. These things have given our society much prosperity over the past thousands of years and have increased our standards of living tremendously. Without innovation, we would have likely never discovered many of the very chemicals we use to explore our minds and worlds.

I will agree that the prosperity and standards of living come at a great expense to our environment and maybe even our psyches. Humans are largely overworked, anxious, and stressed, and we have exploited our environment just about to a breaking point that will wreak havoc upon our civilization and our fellow species.

But we are just beginning to solve some of our worst problems, and I do not believe that now is the time to deny the importance of innovation and productivity in solving our humanitarian and environmental crises. If microdosing can help in alleviating human suffering and protecting our environment through innovations in these fields, I think that is something to support rather than to reject at this time. Only once we reach a point of total sustainability will I think it is time to take our foot off of the innovation pedal.
"Think for yourself and question authority." - Leary

"To step out of ideology - it hurts. It's a painful experience. You must force yourself to do it." - Žižek
 
Espurrr
#3 Posted : 6/23/2017 8:10:33 AM




Posts: 403
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Last visit: 09-Mar-2024
Location: Iran
Big grin hello
yes! the way you put it, as extraordinary claims needing extraordinary evidence, is a much better way of saying it

Quote:
If microdosing can help in alleviating human suffering and protecting our environment through innovations in these fields, I think that is something to support rather than to reject at this time. Only once we reach a point of total sustainability will I think it is time to take our foot off of the innovation pedal.


yes, i actually do agree that using innovation and productivity with the help of psychedelics can help lift our problems out of the screen, that is to say these tools being used for improving how we culture our farms, self sustainability and possibly cleaning out the environment, but the thing is, the micro dose approach will also be used in industrial and basically the same sources that are causing these problems, and since they employ the most workers, hence the most pressure will also be on their side of the grind, which led to my approach to this notion, potentially great, but in reality not so much.
the real concern is that potentially these same tools that can be used to relieve the situation, would be used to worsen it
that is whats really concerning
 
Mister_Niles
#4 Posted : 6/23/2017 3:00:08 PM

DMT-Nexus member


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Joined: 11-Jun-2010
Last visit: 28-Mar-2024

What are the doors of perception and how did you find out there are an infinite number of them?
How do you cleanse a perceptual door? Is there a procedure that is known to work reliably? Does the cleansing procedure for door number 745 differ from the procedure for door number 7,400,999,854?

I find this post confusing. In one area you express concern for elitism about who should use psychedelics. In another part you express the elitist idea that people shouldn't be using these substances "in pursuit of silly innovation and productivity". That seems elitist to me.

Then you seemingly imply that McKenna was delusional, the culture was delusional (which culture? the psychedelic culture? Which psychedelic culture? Culture as a whole?) Leary and McKenna merely presented ideas. McKenna clearly states this repeatedly throughout his work. He had no fixed ideology as far as I can tell. I'm not very familiar with Leary, but it seems to me that even if he was overzealous at times, his theories were just theories. There was no delusional ideology that I know of. If you or others take an ideology away from their work, that's on them. some people find both men to be valuable resources.

Also, you begin with this:

"caution: if the individual reading this is prone to intellectual baiting and insulted by mere theory being placed in public, please refrain from reading."

Hmmm.... What that says to me is this: Don't bother disagreeing with me, because if you do, instead of explaining my position I will dismiss you as a troll.
But you are using words like "ridiculous" "delusional" "silly" and at one point say that people should stop being "bitches". I hate that misogynistic word. The overall tone of your post is pretty confrontational. You are making some bold statements (even if your little disclaimer about this post not being fixed or authoritarian was included as a device you can point at whenever you need to) so you had better brace yourself for push back.

There are some interesting ideas in this post, but I personally find it unwieldy, disorganized, confusing and even slightly offensive. If you want to have a discussion about ideas, some of them controversial, maybe you shouldn't start by bashing other ideas, cultural norms, sacred cows, classes of people and organizations who are doing important work.

I want to talk about some of this stuff, but you seem to have already made up your mind on many issues and I fear that challenging your beliefs would just further entrench you in your position.

Welcome Home Mister_Niles. We've Been Waiting For You.


"Don't worry. When it happens, you won't be able to not let it do its thing. You won't have the ability to distinguish a pen from a hippopotamus"
- Art Van D'lay
 
Espurrr
#5 Posted : 6/24/2017 1:06:25 AM




Posts: 403
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Last visit: 09-Mar-2024
Location: Iran
hi mister_niles Big grin
it seems as though the way i put doors of perception sounded preposterous, almost as if they are actual doors to be measured and counted, what i mean by this and what huxley meant by this is simply using "doors" as a symbol for "how we look at the world and ourselves", and for sure we can look in an infinitely diverse manner, don't you agree?

secondly, i didn't express concern for elitism, i did however express a semi-elitist concern as to whom can harm themselves by using these psychedelics just because they were not informed on the consequences, as stated in the following:

Quote:
"making sure people understand what capable of traveling with these tools means, and to understand that contentment also applies to consciousness exploration, this is not an authoritarian approach, its simply stating that the individual themselves may want to accept that there is a “enough” in consciousness exploration too and when they notice it they won’t ignore it."


however on bashing a lot of important people and important work, i do believe that all of what they did was necessary for the flow of our history, this is not a claim stating "they should not have done it", rather it is a person sharing their frustration of having been trapped in these delusional ideas, mainly the escapist aspect of those philosophies, and presenting the idea that if people are informed of it, not all have to undergo such difficulty

Quote:
so you had better brace yourself for push back.

my friend, im not in battle or at a race with anyone or myself here, those sentences were actually used to prevent this sort of conflict rather than cause it, maybe i don't really know how to prevent it because im not a very good writer, either way i do actually welcome criticism and if you feel strongly that this sort of approach is hypocritical and not really beneficial to anyone, i will gladly edit the post when we discuss more clearly on what should be said instead <3

i agree with all the points you have made(especially that the post is disorganized, as i said i may not be a very good writer and might need help organizing this) except one, which is the following:

Quote:
If you want to have a discussion about ideas, some of them controversial, maybe you shouldn't start by bashing other ideas, cultural norms, sacred cows, classes of people and organizations who are doing important work.


i understand your concerns, but this i do not understand, the way i see the world and life, no one is doing important work, no one is sacred and high and not to be questioned, the word controversial is meaningless to me, there are 2 categories that divide existence, one is whatever exists, the other is delusions of it, hence when what truly exists is built upon, one gets balance, equilibrium, flow and growth, however when it is built upon delusion, one gets imbalance, dis-equilibrium, block and self-destruction. i cannot refrain from bashing what seems delusional to me, however im open to anyone that can shed light if what i believe to be delusional actually isn't

Quote:
I want to talk about some of this stuff, but you seem to have already made up your mind on many issues and I fear that challenging your beliefs would just further entrench you in your position.

please, don't be driven away by the personality of OP, im just a dude like anyone else and if shown what i can't see will change my opinion and perspective on what we're discussing, and this is not even "for" me anyway, what you write down will be viewed by nexians and guests alikeLove
 
 
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