We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
Practicing Death (with 5-MeO-DMT) Options
 
Bancopuma
#1 Posted : 6/11/2017 9:57:00 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member

Posts: 2147
Joined: 09-May-2009
Last visit: 24-Mar-2024
Location: the shire, England
Interesting and well written article about an important issue that may be of interest.


http://spiritualityhealt...rticles/practicing-death

Quote:

Practicing Death

Marti was a bright, optimistic, attractive 40-year-old woman when she first entered a support group for cancer patients that I facilitated at the Center for Attitudinal Healing in Tiburon, California. It wasn’t until a few years later that her illness wrought its devastation on her body and her spirit. During that time we had become friends, and she became interested in my shamanic work outside the center.

When her death was imminent, she became quite frightened and anxious. I shared with her my experiences with a psychedelic agent, 5-Methoxy Dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT), with which I had been working for a number of years, and which might be helpful to her in dealing with her concerns and the challenges to come.

I told her it was a “spiritual medicine” from the Amazon, used shamanically by indigenous peoples there to contact the spirit world. Indigenous cultures typically use 5-MeO-DMT as a snuff, although on some occasions they use it as an admixture to ayahuasca. Rather than making a snuff, contemporary users prefer to vaporize extracts of 5-MeO from plants and inhale the smoke.

She became especially interested in it when I mentioned that I called it “death practice energy medicine” because it helped people work with the letting-go process, something she would face in the all-too-near future, and opened them up to the reality underlying the physical world — the world, as William Blake put it, where “energy is total delight.”

My First Practice

The first time I took 5-MeO-DMT, I was with Terence McKenna in his home in Occidental with two other friends in 1985. I went first; I inhaled the smoke. When the medicine came on, time, space, and ordinary consciousness were totally obliterated.

At warp speed I shot down a hyperspace energy tunnel in full panic that this time I had gone too far — I was dying and there was nothing I could do to stop it. I knew I would never see my family again, never enjoy a sunrise, and never again walk in the mountains or forests that always filled me with joy. I tried to stretch my arms and legs out to the sides of the tunnel to slow down, but alas, I had no arms or legs. I had no body, just energy of what previously had been me, zooming toward infinity.

Realizing there was nothing I could do, I surrendered to my fate with the thought, I can’t stop this, so I might as well be totally present and get as much from it as I can, right up until the moment when I die. At that precise instant, I went into a state of total bliss.

A gentle explosion of white-gold light evaporated all notions of past, present, future, shape, form, identity, and space. There was only infinite, pulsating “all-ness” of ecstatic energy — a cosmic organism of joy that just kept exploding into a sea of infinite emptiness, devoid of materiality but filled with love. This was the cosmic consciousness state referred to by the mystics of all religions around the world as god/goddess/holy spirit/the mysterium tremendum.

After 10 immeasurable minutes, parts of my psyche that had been blasted into the far reaches of the cosmos gradually began floating back into awareness. I could see sections of my ego identity slowly appear from the vast distances of far-off space, heading toward what was my body, lying there on the rug, beginning to recompose itself. After another 10 minutes I was back to baseline here but with a new relationship to death, to dying, to letting go.

The Peace-Filled Channel

I have been working with physical death in one way or another since my rude introduction into the teaching of impermanence, just months before my fourth birthday, when my father died. As an adult I received a Ph.D. in psychology and went on to help start the second hospice program in the United States. Then I helped start the Center for Attitudinal Healing, where I worked with children and adults with cancer for 32 years.

Over this time I sat bedside with numerous children and adults, witnessing their final moments. All too often I saw that anxiety and fear, along with a resistance to let go, created intense struggle for the departing person and increased anguish for attending family and friends. My job in being there, enlightened by my death-practice work with the energy medicine, was to serve as a labor coach, helping the natural letting-go process to happen as smoothly as possible, thereby birthing the person “back home” into the infinite cosmos from whence he came, an existence of pure consciousness, pure light, pure love.

My 5-MeO-DMT journey experience with letting go and entering cosmic bliss allowed me to remain peaceful no matter what was happening, as I knew that the key was surrendering into the underlying reality of oneness with all. Thus, I was able to be a peace-filled channel for the love and light that awaited each dying person when he finally did release. This function seemed to help the dying person, as well as others in the room, to feel more trustful of what was taking place and release into it with more peace and ease.

My experiences with other psychedelics (including peyote, psilocybin, and ayahuasca) and other life-threatened individuals over the years, and working with indigenous healers in Mexico and the Amazon, has repeatedly evidenced how the letting-go process with mind-altering substances — when used responsibly in supportive settings with experienced guides — allows the journeyer to exercise what I 63call the “surrender muscles.” It creates an opportunity to do vital preparation work for the ultimate letting-go journey when physically dying by strengthening the letting-go process.

The Dynamics of Letting Go

A key dynamic for a fruitful and transformational psychedelic journey is releasing control and surrendering into mystery — and allowing the experience to unfold. In doing so, journeyers learn about the cartography of altered space; they learn about levels of consciousness and being beyond the physical self and the identity of ego. They experience an aspect of their being that is transcendent of whom and what they thought they were; they learn of the cosmic self. This experience not only brings more comfort and ease with the altered states that frequently accompany physical death, along with an ability to navigate within them, but it also provides a sense of inner peace and serenity.

The practice builds confidence that whatever is dying is okay, for they are about to enter a state of blissful oneness with all that has been, is now, and will forever be. Thus, they feel comforted that they will not be separated from the loved ones they seemingly are leaving behind. The practice suggests that the love they share does not die with their physical bodies, for they experience themselves as more than the physical containers that house their life spirit for the time of their life walk upon Mother Earth.

Marti, the cancer patient mentioned earlier, was eager to try the energy medicine after we talked about the experience and how it might prove helpful in defusing her fear and anxiety about death. We set up a time and safe setting, she arranged for a mutual friend to be there as an additional support person, and we went forward with our plan.

On the day of the journey, we met in her home. I first purified the site with sage smoke and invited Marti to set the stage for sacred space by placing her spiritual objects and pictures in a circle around her. I then invited her to speak her intentions for the journey and her gratitude, after which I said a prayer that used her spiritual notions of deity. Marti inhaled the smoke, held it for the required 45 seconds, and then collapsed backwards onto the pillows laid out for her journey.

Her eyes rolled backward in her head; her body shook uncontrollably. A blood-curdling scream roared from her mouth. Then she was totally still. “Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God,” she mumbled. “Oh, my God. I can’t believe it. I can’t believe it.” A gloriously serene smile appeared on her face, now softened in a way I had never seen before.

Marti lay peacefully on her back for another 20 minutes before she opened her eyes. Blinking, she looked at her friend and me, at the room, then back to me. “I saw God,” she said. “I really did. I saw God. It was unbelievable, but it happened. Death is okay now. I know I will be okay, that I will be with God, with everyone. It’s all love; it’s all light. We are all together! Thank you, Tom. Thank you so much. I can’t believe this medicine. What a gift. You have to share it with others!”

The Future of the Practice

Marti died peacefully one week after her energy medicine journey. I have seen similar results with scores of others, helping them ease their fear of death and dying and what happens after death. I can’t help but believe how helpful this work could be with others who seek to exercise their surrender muscles in preparation for their physical death and/or for spiritually enhanced living.

The indigenous peoples with whom I have studied consider these agents as having a guiding and healing spirit, as being alive, a wisdom elder, a sacred sacramental gift from the spirit world. They must be approached only with the utmost respect, reverence, and humility. It is easy for our materially based, sensation-seeking culture to abuse these substances, and when that occurs, great harm can result. These substances are not for everyone. Most certainly they are contraindicated for people with high blood pressure, heart problems, seizure history, or those on any kind of psychoactive medications, as well as those suffering from any kind of mental illness. A trained guide who knows the territory also is necessary, along with a safe and secure setting, and creating sacred space in alignment with the journeyer’s belief system and intentions.

It is my hope that federal regulations will allow these substances to be used responsibly by qualified practitioners, who can conduct research to validate the potential of these substances to create a sustainable world; one that is peaceful, loving, and just and that is built on the recognition brought forth by the journeys — that all of creation is interwoven in an invisible web of love that is truly the essence of our being.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
All Hail HypnoToad
#2 Posted : 6/25/2017 8:09:05 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 35
Joined: 09-Nov-2013
Last visit: 27-Jan-2022
Very happy
Nice article
 
NotTwo
#3 Posted : 8/18/2017 12:39:52 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 396
Joined: 08-Feb-2015
Last visit: 01-Mar-2023
Late response, I know, but thanks Bancopuma - wonderful article!
In all of reality there are not two. There is just the one thing. And I am that.
 
Espurrr
#4 Posted : 9/13/2017 10:27:49 PM




Posts: 403
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Last visit: 09-Mar-2024
Location: Iran
eye was presented with one technique of 2 variations
a continuous death (with iboga roots)
an immediate death (with 5-meo-dmt)
they follow the same philosophy basically only by implemention of some ritualistic death-preparations
it seems to work, but it also feels very artificial because its a constructed experience you know? the wildness and magical theme which i found the art of dying in was lacking in these structurally pre-designed experiences, that is a concern
interesting work, ime whenever a line of experiences revolving around dying (and rebirth) is followed one is set on a path to the depths of tao
and all these techniques seem to be reflection of a series of events upon death (although observed differently but reacted to similarly) , which the people of kemet were figuring out (and did, and presented it in stone structure and art)
in the recent years different sides of the same idea have been being discovered and brought together by the humble scholars of the world
and things begin to make sense, maybe a platform will be built in which the egyptian pursuit of sight into death from these practices of death is possible?
i am to believe that is, and has been, the case
Razz
 
Rivaq's Matilda
#5 Posted : 9/14/2017 12:48:10 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 71
Joined: 02-Sep-2017
Last visit: 09-Nov-2020
Location: Brisbane Australia
Initiatory experiences, of facing death, tend to need a correct set and setting to be successful. Otherwise the risk was of instigating more fear, rather than reducing the total level of fear and stress in a person's life.

The death theme reminded me of how, in Japan, a company is profiting from selling a practicing death experience, which just gets about 10-20 people all at once, to go through some kind of workshop, and then lie down in an actual coffin for quite a few hours. They all say they feel rested afterwards. At least those interviewed said that.

Each to their own, with respect of the methodology by which we arrive within certain understandings.

My worry is, that with the opening up of more psychedelic science, more professionals will find that a reason exists to think of being a sitter, of the psychedelic experiences of others, as a means of earning money, without having enough experience and correct motivation.

There needs to be fruitful discourse about what qualifies a person to supervise another person's psychedelic experience, or else it will likely work out safer, for western medical experts who have no idea and never feel inclined to try a psychedelic, to be doing the sitting. The question of how to enable oneself, or anybody else, to approach an understanding of death, in a way which will lessen the body's stress about that now, is always reasonable to be asking.
a mother a daughter a lover of life, an exorcist of addictions if ere in need of the strife, and at bottom line a wife, I might well be a bore, yet have no doubt, I stand among the poor, and beg not what for, that hat hath at, nobody's mind fell too flat
 
null24
#6 Posted : 9/14/2017 9:14:50 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Welcoming committeeModerator

Posts: 3968
Joined: 21-Jul-2012
Last visit: 15-Feb-2024
Rivaq's Matilda wrote:
Initiatory experiences, of facing death, tend to need a correct set and setting to be successful. Otherwise the risk was of instigating more fear, rather than reducing the total level of fear and stress in a person's life.

The death theme reminded me of how, in Japan, a company is profiting from selling a practicing death experience, which just gets about 10-20 people all at once, to go through some kind of workshop, and then lie down in an actual coffin for quite a few hours. They all say they feel rested afterwards. At least those interviewed said that.

Each to their own, with respect of the methodology by which we arrive within certain understandings.

My worry is, that with the opening up of more psychedelic science, more professionals will find that a reason exists to think of being a sitter, of the psychedelic experiences of others, as a means of earning money, without having enough experience and correct motivation.

There needs to be fruitful discourse about what qualifies a person to supervise another person's psychedelic experience, or else it will likely work out safer, for western medical experts who have no idea and never feel inclined to try a psychedelic, to be doing the sitting. The question of how to enable oneself, or anybody else, to approach an understanding of death, in a way which will lessen the body's stress about that now, is always reasonable to be asking.


These things concern me as well. There seems to be more attention given to who's come up with the best business plan to put into action than there are conversations about best practices for psychedelic practitioners.

The cat is out of the bag, and with the work that MAPS is doing, there are lots of people ready to,or already are, offer their services as trip facilitators, integration coaches, and whatever other titles they give themselves.

This is something to be concerned about in my opinion and there is nothing beyond a persons own claims of legitimacy to go on; no certification boards, no guidelines, not even any real definitions of terminology in some cases.

How to go about addressing this, I don't know. All the people I know who are doing these kinds of things make their decisions in a vacuum. They trip a few times,or a whole hell of a lot of times more usually, have expansive experiences and feel qualified. I'm but saying that every one of them has not made an accurate assumption of talents and abilities, just that now that this reality is occurring it is better to talk about these things sooner than later.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
null24
#7 Posted : 9/14/2017 9:24:28 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Welcoming committeeModerator

Posts: 3968
Joined: 21-Jul-2012
Last visit: 15-Feb-2024
Yeah, two posts in a row, I just have a statement irrelevant to my last I wanted to separate.

I really think the idea of "practicing death" is a wonderful one. Going along with my last post, it could be a practice developed within the community taking advantage of spiritual traditions' teachings combined with the experiences given by 5meoDMT. I seem to recall hearing a person mention a practice that is similar called "westing", and I love that tem, as in the setting sun.

Having an intimate knowledge of death through an initiatory practice system, could be probably one of the most beneficial things I can think of. Beyond alleviating the fear of death that all of us have, it will ease the pain of losing loved ones.

There's not a lot that really matters in this world, all the meanings we have attributed to life we have done so through playing little games. Understanding death, truly comprehending it, is arguably something that does matter. If one can master it, I would guess that mastering life would follow.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
Rivaq's Matilda
#8 Posted : 9/18/2017 6:11:39 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 71
Joined: 02-Sep-2017
Last visit: 09-Nov-2020
Location: Brisbane Australia
null24 wrote:

There's not a lot that really matters in this world, all the meanings we have attributed to life we have done so through playing little games. Understanding death, truly comprehending it, is arguably something that does matter. If one can master it, I would guess that mastering life would follow.


There are only a few rules. Aligned with traditional initiatory experiences among indigenous australians, which I learned in my life time, are the same rules as in the Hindu Kush, in Afghanistan, and in Tibetan traditions, and apparently have been with humanity since the time of Moses, according to the Abrahamic tradition as taught among Sufi in Arabia.

Rule 1: Death is always accidental. No joke, even suicides always accidental. The fact some people attempt suicide and survive, doesn't mean that those who died, were attempting to end themselves for real. And in wars, men who shoot other men, might realise that act is as random as it is playing a video game. Always accidental, we need understand, so as to stay safe and sane in confronting our fears of.

Rule 2: We never know when it will happen. Live your life as if it can be any minute now.

Rule 3: We can't imagine what it is like dying. If we try, we still can't imagine, but might find it inadvisable to be trying.

And Rule 4, is never so much as a rule, as an eventual observation. Which is that all our fears of all kinds, can be condensed into the fear of pain, which can condense into the fear of death being potentially somewhat painful, (we can readily realise by the processes of diseases and injuries we survive, although in the event of our loved one's passing, they usually don't like saying so), and if we realise this, we avoid behaviour which might coincide in mind with thinking about dying, which in turn, accords that we live healthier lives in general, and are less likely to cause harm to other persons.

Ask yourselves, "what is the worst that could happen" about any situation in which you feel up to a challenge. Then think of what if that worst is certainly going to happen, and ask again, "What is the worst than could happen", and then think of what if that worst is certainly going to happen, and ask again, "What is the worst that could happen" . . . always by every route through such questions, the last answer is death, and the second last answer, will hold every key you need to understand your life by facing your fear.

a mother a daughter a lover of life, an exorcist of addictions if ere in need of the strife, and at bottom line a wife, I might well be a bore, yet have no doubt, I stand among the poor, and beg not what for, that hat hath at, nobody's mind fell too flat
 
null24
#9 Posted : 9/18/2017 3:51:32 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Welcoming committeeModerator

Posts: 3968
Joined: 21-Jul-2012
Last visit: 15-Feb-2024
Interesting Rivaq, thank you. These rules you outline from world traditions, while I'm not by any means knowledgeable, I'm not sure if I understand/agree completely, especially numbers 1 & 3.

One thing that "sounds like" truth to me is this statement, which rang in my head after a powerful 5meoDMT trip: "nothing has ever happened to you."

In other words, while the mechanism is beyond my memory or real capacity to know, all circumstances in my life ultimately fall into being the result of some conscious or unconscious decision, and perhaps made prior to birth. I obviously can only say this is a thought though.

And number 3, that we cannot begin to know death. While again, of course I cannot be certain (which, I guess, puts the truth to the statement in your post, lol), perhaps this substance (5meoDMT) CAN give us insight into the nature of death.

Even if the exact real experience isn't even similar, I still feel that a carefully administered dose of 5 just might be an antidote for the fear of death that lies within us all.

Rivaq's Matilda wrote:

Ask yourselves, "what is the worst that could happen" about any situation in which you feel up to a challenge. Then think of what if that worst is certainly going to happen, and ask again, "What is the worst than could happen", and then think of what if that worst is certainly going to happen, and ask again, "What is the worst that could happen" . . . always by every route through such questions, the last answer is death, and the second last answer, will hold every key you need to understand your life by facing your fear.


Nice.Smile , that has a place in by toolbox, thank you!
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
Rivaq's Matilda
#10 Posted : 9/19/2017 1:22:53 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 71
Joined: 02-Sep-2017
Last visit: 09-Nov-2020
Location: Brisbane Australia
About Rule One: Death is always accidental.

Perhaps nothing ever happened to you already. You might be a doer rather than a person just letting life happen, but if you did how you live, you can't also do how you die, but rather, that happens by accidental consequence of how you do your life, for those who needed do it themselves. Some of us are lucky enough to have our life done above our heads, and then it is more obvious that death is accidental, since life is also accidental.

About Rule Three: We can't imaging dying.

There were many ways of saying that. All access the faculty of imagination, and pose the point, that imaginatively, death can't not be. Yet if folks wanted to live only in their imaginations, that will be their trouble, rather than the problem of anybody whose life is somewhat more connected with reality. This point is normally better understood by those who do their life, than by those whose life is done above our head.

Some folks just never want to face the reality of their own end, and the less relevant rule 4, tends to prove why.
a mother a daughter a lover of life, an exorcist of addictions if ere in need of the strife, and at bottom line a wife, I might well be a bore, yet have no doubt, I stand among the poor, and beg not what for, that hat hath at, nobody's mind fell too flat
 
Bancopuma
#11 Posted : 9/21/2017 4:03:34 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member

Posts: 2147
Joined: 09-May-2009
Last visit: 24-Mar-2024
Location: the shire, England
null24 wrote:
I really think the idea of "practicing death" is a wonderful one. Going along with my last post, it could be a practice developed within the community taking advantage of spiritual traditions' teachings combined with the experiences given by 5meoDMT. I seem to recall hearing a person mention a practice that is similar called "westing", and I love that tem, as in the setting sun.

Having an intimate knowledge of death through an initiatory practice system, could be probably one of the most beneficial things I can think of. Beyond alleviating the fear of death that all of us have, it will ease the pain of losing loved ones.


I very much agree. I also think the whole issue of us not really knowing what death truly is until our time is something of a moot point in all this. Certainly null24 given your incredible 5-MeO-DMT induced NDE, you're in a better position than most to comment on this, which makes your perspectives here all the more interesting and valuable.

Something to ponder...is that fact that we don't really know what death is until our time, really that important? I saw this in the wake of the recent psilocybin studies conducted at Johns Hopkins and New York University, where psilocybin was administered to terminal cancer patients. A significant and overwhelming majority of participants reported a complete loss or greatly reduced fear of their impending death. The mystical experience high dose psilocybin can reliably catalyse is a core component of this long term psychotherapeutic effect, but death itself featured prominently in the participants psilocybin experiences. Some experienced an entropic sort of simulated death, with their body breaking down and the molecules of which it is composed being recycled by nature. Others felt like they witnessed the beyond, like some form of afterlife, or that their consciousness will in some form survive the death of their physical body. Whatever their experiences were, while they could sometimes be gruelling during the act of simulated hallucinatory dying, all people reported peace in death following this, and this in turn had a prolonged psychotherapeutic effect.

With this in mind, given the toll that existential distress can take on the person in question, as well as their loved ones, I don't think it really matters we cannot know death with certainty until it happens. These results clearly speak for themselves. As pioneering psychologist and philosopher William James argued over a century ago, the mystical experience should be judged not on its roots, but on its fruits. With the compelling results of these recent studies in mind, obsessing over definitions of death strikes me as fixating on the finger while it's pointing at the moon.
 
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.055 seconds.