We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
12NEXT
Safe datura dosage? Options
 
Nakamashi❀ᴇxtract
#1 Posted : 10/30/2009 4:01:01 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 25
Joined: 27-Oct-2009
Last visit: 09-Mar-2010
My friend of a friend says his mom is growing datura plants, and I'm not sure which species it is yet, but he said that he could find out and get me one of the spiky seed pods, so I figured I should be better safe than sorry and ask about this here first. Is there a dosage for having a datura trip that could be considered "safe" (not enough for an OD or anything) while still getting the datura trip that everyone recognizes, at least to some degree? With a sitter, of course. I'd like to be able to become experienced with datura so that I can find ways to use it with other substances in the future.
DISCLAIMER: Nakamashi❀ᴇxtract (a.k.a., Nakamashi) is a fictional character created by a lonely internet browser with an overactive imagination and egregious amounts of free time. References that he makes to himself or people that he has known or interacted with in no way pertain to real individuals, and any information or personal anecdotes that he presents should be dismissed, along with any of the aforementioned references, as fabrications of an absurdist mind.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
The Traveler
#2 Posted : 10/30/2009 4:09:12 PM

"No, seriously"

Administrator | Skills: DMT, LSD, Programming

Posts: 7324
Joined: 18-Jan-2007
Last visit: 28-Mar-2024
Location: Orion Spur
The safe dosage for Datura is no where near the dosage needed for a full Datura trip, that makes datura a dangerous or even deadly plant to consume at higher dosages. In a far lower and safe doses though, about 2 or 3 seeds, it can be a very good medicine to remedy nausia from certain entheogens.

I would advice you not to try a Datura trip but take a look at other, far safer, entheogens like shrooms, Ayahuasca and cacti.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
Ginkgo
#3 Posted : 10/30/2009 4:12:34 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1926
Joined: 10-May-2009
Last visit: 27-Apr-2015
Location: ☂
A psychedelic experience with Datura alone includes delerium, which is extremely dangerous and should only be considered by extremely competent shamans in an extremely safe setting. In such a delerious trip, you loose all connection to reality and do not even know that you are hallucinating. This means you easily can go out on the street while you think it is a forest, eat glass while you think it is fruit, and so on. I can not stress this enough, the tropane alkaloids in Datura is some real nasty stuff, you must not ever try to trip on them alone!! This is not the common anti-drug propaganda, this is friendly anti-death propaganda.

Daturas are, however, a good admixture to most psychedelics if taken in extremely low doses. 1-3 Datura stramonium seeds are great in this use, a dose that on itself does next to nothing, but potentiate psychedelics and stop any nausea. You want D. stramonium with the 80 % Hyoscyamine content, as D. inoxia contains 44 % Scopolamine. Scopolamine does not counter the nausea as good, is sedating, and does not seem to potentiate psychedelics the same way. D. inoxia seeds can, however, be used as a safe sleeping aid.

Good luck! Smile
 
soulman
#4 Posted : 10/30/2009 5:29:11 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 603
Joined: 08-Nov-2008
Last visit: 07-Nov-2016
SWIM wants to eat some datura seeds during an aya analogue ceremony to see if it enhances the brightness and sharpness of the visions (as is reported)
Can anyone suggest how many would be suffcient? Would 3-4 seeds be adequate?
You have to go within or you go without
 
Nakamashi❀ᴇxtract
#5 Posted : 10/30/2009 5:30:49 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 25
Joined: 27-Oct-2009
Last visit: 09-Mar-2010
The Traveler wrote:
The safe dosage for Datura is no where near the dosage needed for a full Datura trip, that makes datura a dangerous or even deadly plant to consume at higher dosages. In a far lower and safe doses though, about 2 or 3 seeds, it can be a very good medicine to remedy nausia from certain entheogens.

I would advice you not to try a Datura trip but take a look at other, far safer, entheogens like shrooms, Ayahuasca and cacti.


Kind regards,

The Traveler


Believe me, if I had easy access to all of those I wouldn't even think about Datura! I'm absolutely in love with shrooms, and I've always wanted to try Ayahuasca and cacti, but I don't know anyone around here who has them or can get them, and I'm fairly new to this so I have no idea where to start Confused

Evening Glory wrote:
A psychedelic experience with Datura alone includes delerium, which is extremely dangerous and should only be considered by extremely competent shamans in an extremely safe setting. In such a delerious trip, you loose all connection to reality and do not even know that you are hallucinating. This means you easily can go out on the street while you think it is a forest, eat glass while you think it is fruit, and so on. I can not stress this enough, the tropane alkaloids in Datura is some real nasty stuff, you must not ever try to trip on them alone!! This is not the common anti-drug propaganda, this is friendly anti-death propaganda.

Daturas are, however, a good admixture to most psychedelics if taken in extremely low doses. 1-3 Datura stramonium seeds are great in this use, a dose that on itself does next to nothing, but potentiate psychedelics and stop any nausea. You want D. stramonium with the 80 % Hyoscyamine content, as D. inoxia contains 44 % Scopolamine. Scopolamine does not counter the nausea as good, is sedating, and does not seem to potentiate psychedelics the same way. D. inoxia seeds can, however, be used as a safe sleeping aid.

Good luck! Smile


That's interesting about the psychedelic potentiation! I'll definitely have to try that, and thanks for letting me know which species to use! I believe I'm familiar with the effects of a Datura trip (and I've experienced a little bit of delirium from a strong Dramamine dosage, not quite the same level from what I understand, but still up there), and I have competent sitters and safe environments to trip in. Sorry, I don't mean to dismiss your warning, but I've been hoping to do this for quite some time, and I know for a fact that it's quite possible to trip on Datura without having negative outcomes, as my dad's friends have done it many, many times. In fact I really just wanted an online opinion about dosage because I just recently found out about my dad's past experimentation and the conversation still seems a little awkward, so I was hesitant to just ask him, but I'm planning on doing that beforehand, too, eventually.
DISCLAIMER: Nakamashi❀ᴇxtract (a.k.a., Nakamashi) is a fictional character created by a lonely internet browser with an overactive imagination and egregious amounts of free time. References that he makes to himself or people that he has known or interacted with in no way pertain to real individuals, and any information or personal anecdotes that he presents should be dismissed, along with any of the aforementioned references, as fabrications of an absurdist mind.
 
endlessness
#6 Posted : 10/30/2009 5:38:48 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Moderator

Posts: 14191
Joined: 19-Feb-2008
Last visit: 27-Mar-2024
Location: Jungle
I will be one more and say for you to NOT try to trip on datura... On dosages producing delerium it is NOT safe, and NOTHING like dramamine strong dosage

You can buy ingredients and make an equivalent of ayahuasca or get some cactus and have a MUCH safer experience that trully benefits you!! You can buy on the internet some mimosa and rue and either take an infusion of both in the appropriate doses or make an extraction of the alkaloids and take that, or get some cactus. Taking care of set and setting, your experience is MUCH safer and likely to be positive

Taking anything more than the micro doses of datura is very risky and is strongly advised against... If you still anyways want to go ahead against warnings, then please, start with low doses, definitely have a STRONG sitter or two around, and only take in the best set and setting possible without anything around that you can hurt yourself with, and have days free without anything to do afterwards.
 
۩
#7 Posted : 10/30/2009 6:28:42 PM

.

Senior Member

Posts: 6739
Joined: 13-Apr-2009
Last visit: 10-Apr-2022
I've OD'd on brugmansia and am lucky to be alive.
With that said, Daturas are not an entheogen you want to experience solo.
They are only beneficial in MICRO DOSES (3 stramonium seeds) For psychedelic potentiation and to block nausea.

You push the limits with this plant and you gain nothing but death.
 
69ron
#8 Posted : 10/30/2009 7:06:43 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 5826
Joined: 09-Jun-2008
Last visit: 08-Sep-2010
Location: USA
When a patient gets hallucinations from Datura alkaloids (hyoscyamine, atropine, or scopolamine), it is a medical sign of a near fatal dose. It’s been known in the medical community that any further dosing normally causes death.

Datura are not delirium inducing hallucinogens until a near fatal dose is taken. A dose close to 80% of what would be a fatal dose is about the dose you would need for the hallucinogenic delirium state to be had. At safe doses, Datura are great for use as anti-nausea medicines and modifiers/enhancers of other drugs, but the high doses that cause delirium are so close to a dose that causes death that by attempting to get into that state you are running the risk of killing yourself.

Even experienced shamans occasionally die from using Datura to induce delirium.

Every year Datura kills many people around the world from accidental overdoses. I highly recommend not using it for delirium purposes.

These plants vary in potency enough that an 80% near fatal dose from one batch could be a 100% fatal dose from another batch of plant material. And because you need a near fatal dose for delirium, that makes it extremely risky to use.

If you’re going to use it anyway, make sure you have a very good sitter who can get you to ER right away. Actually, if you need ER for real, chances are you’ll die before getting to ER because you will stop breathing. The sitter will have a hard time knowing if you’re experiencing near death symptoms because your behavior will not make any sense and you won’t be able to explain any of your symptoms to your sitter because you’ll be completely delirious. Difficulty breathing is a serious sign that you’re about to die, but because you’ll be hallucinating so hard, you won’t notice the symptom and won’t be able to convey it to your sitter. Your sitter is going to have to be able to read the symptoms without your help. That’s tough.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
Ginkgo
#9 Posted : 10/30/2009 7:37:45 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1926
Joined: 10-May-2009
Last visit: 27-Apr-2015
Location: ☂
Nakamashi❀ᴇxtract wrote:
In fact I really just wanted an online opinion about dosage because I just recently found out about my dad's past experimentation and the conversation still seems a little awkward, so I was hesitant to just ask him, but I'm planning on doing that beforehand, too, eventually.

A good dosage advise on Datura is not possible, as the alkaloid content varies so extreme. The seeds are recognised as the part of the plant with the least variation, but they can have anywhere from 0.1 to 0.7% tropane alkaloids. In other words, one potent seed can have as much alkaloids as seven others. The other parts of the plant vary even more. As the dose needed for a trip is extremely close to the lethal dose (as 69ron stated, 80 % is the figure in the medical litterature), it is not possible to give any advise on how much you can safely take. The only way you could be sure, is by having pure Hyoscyamine and slowly increasing the dose to find a comfortably level.

Or more exact; an uncomfortably level. Because, in these dosages, the effects are far from comfortable. Extreme dry mouth and eyes and pain in the whole body is what you should expect. It feels like a poisoning, because that is just what it is. I can not really understand why someone voluntary would do this to themselves. The extreme risk of death from overdose is one thing, even as important is the extreme risk of dying from what you do to yourself in the delerious trip. The hallucinations are not something you should look forward to - it is not hallucinations or visions as Serotonin-psychedelics, it is more like living dreams. Your body is awake but all connection to reality is lost. If that was not enough: You think you are totally sober. And it usually lasts for 24-48 hours, sometimes even longer. It is not fun to think you walk on a nudist beach talking to sexy babes, when you in fact walk naked over a street yelling at the cars.
 
OnthePath
#10 Posted : 10/31/2009 5:50:57 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 85
Joined: 04-Oct-2009
Last visit: 10-Feb-2013
Location: parts unknown
You are better off taking a large dose of PCP - and this is something I would never recommend to anyone so take that for what it's worth. The people here have great insight into these matters and I agree wholeheartedly. Stay away from these substances as you will only regret it - in addition to those around you at the time, friends and strangers alike.
 
fatso
#11 Posted : 10/31/2009 11:16:02 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 29
Joined: 17-Sep-2009
Last visit: 04-Nov-2009
Location: jabudi jabudi
sorry to thread jack, but i have a quick question. i was thinking about adding 2 seeds to some 4-aco-dmt tonight to potentiate it. never tried it before. but i was also gonna have some salvia. any dangerous interactions there? thanks .
 
polytrip
#12 Posted : 10/31/2009 11:28:51 PM
DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member

Posts: 4639
Joined: 16-May-2008
Last visit: 24-Dec-2012
Location: A speck of dust in endless space, like everyone else.
fatso wrote:
sorry to thread jack, but i have a quick question. i was thinking about adding 2 seeds to some 4-aco-dmt tonight to potentiate it. never tried it before. but i was also gonna have some salvia. any dangerous interactions there? thanks .

That's a safe dose.

Belladonna-alkaloids have three levels of intoxication.
1-you don't notice much. It potentiates many psychedelics and prevents nausea. if you feel anything of it, it's physical symptoms like a dry throat.
2-a state of drunkenness or stonedness. Not peticularly pleasant, but not live threatening either. Dangerous to experiment with because you can never know how much alkaloids you ingest and sensitivity varies from person to person.
someone posted a story here about taking blotters, he thought contained LSD. They contained a small amount of tropanes, not enough to cause delirium, but enough to cause these symptoms of drunkennes.
3-delirium.
This is a very dangerous level of intoxication, physically as well as mentally.
Sign of a near overdose is extreme muscle weakness. This also includes haert and lung muscles, hence the danger of not surviving this stage.
 
herbmed
#13 Posted : 11/1/2009 3:16:02 AM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1
Joined: 31-Oct-2009
Last visit: 01-Nov-2009
I saw this question as I was looking for other info. The area where I live has 2 major and a few lesser known datura species native. Most common is Datura metelioides, first cousin and virtually identical to "jimson weed", Dat.virginiana. The native people use it for a few things medicinally, But its poisonous properties are well known. Eating it is widely discouraged, also for teas or ingesting it in any way. Mostly because it makes dead people when eaten. Also it can produce permanent mental, and emotional damage. The native Shamans here avoid it ,considering it to have evil spiritual properties. The Navajo people believe if it grows near your house it will cause marital strife and anger/ violence in your home. Enough said? BUT... I have used it in this way; a few seeds will cause a headache to lessen. A small 1/2 teaspoon will assist in spiritual meditations to increase empathy when brewed with other herbs. This is to be used for spiritual diciplines,and in that tiny amount!!! Its just not suitable for a high when ingested. But... it can be smoked. This greatly lowers the poisonous qualities and it does have a small hallucinogenic effect. It is like a miracle when smoked for a tension headache. If you use much more than 1 joints worth, you can still get ill. Nausea, and fatigue ect. If used to potentiate another substance smoking it as raw plant would be hugely safer, much harder to Kill yourself. The psycoactive properties reach a natural limit, when smoked. Quit when it levels off, unless you enjoy vomiting! It greatly intensified psylocybin for me.I hope my experiences with this helps, and prevents a death or permanant insanity in a seeker.
 
Nakamashi❀ᴇxtract
#14 Posted : 11/9/2009 4:25:18 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 25
Joined: 27-Oct-2009
Last visit: 09-Mar-2010
herbmed wrote:
I saw this question as I was looking for other info. The area where I live has 2 major and a few lesser known datura species native. Most common is Datura metelioides, first cousin and virtually identical to "jimson weed", Dat.virginiana. The native people use it for a few things medicinally, But its poisonous properties are well known. Eating it is widely discouraged, also for teas or ingesting it in any way. Mostly because it makes dead people when eaten. Also it can produce permanent mental, and emotional damage. The native Shamans here avoid it ,considering it to have evil spiritual properties. The Navajo people believe if it grows near your house it will cause marital strife and anger/ violence in your home. Enough said? BUT... I have used it in this way; a few seeds will cause a headache to lessen. A small 1/2 teaspoon will assist in spiritual meditations to increase empathy when brewed with other herbs. This is to be used for spiritual diciplines,and in that tiny amount!!! Its just not suitable for a high when ingested. But... it can be smoked. This greatly lowers the poisonous qualities and it does have a small hallucinogenic effect. It is like a miracle when smoked for a tension headache. If you use much more than 1 joints worth, you can still get ill. Nausea, and fatigue ect. If used to potentiate another substance smoking it as raw plant would be hugely safer, much harder to Kill yourself. The psycoactive properties reach a natural limit, when smoked. Quit when it levels off, unless you enjoy vomiting! It greatly intensified psylocybin for me.I hope my experiences with this helps, and prevents a death or permanant insanity in a seeker.


This is very interesting! I didn't know there was a difference like that when smoked, thanks for the info! Smile

I would like to say on the whole, though, to everyone in this thread who was concerned, that I have decided not to use Datura (except for psychedelic potentiation, and maybe a bit of smoking, I suppose), at least not until a much later date, and only with someone who is very, very experienced and knows exactly what to do both to enhance the experience and if anything should go awry. During the past few experiences I've had with various substances, I've been doing a bit of soul-searching and reflecting and I've come to the conclusion that at my level of experience, there's no way in hell that I could be prepared for the intensity of a Datura trip, so even if I was to try it now and everything worked out fine, I don't feel that I would get even satisfaction for having tried it. And of course, there's always the fact that if I ask about it on a forum of well educated people and everyone tells me not to, it may be at least worth reconsidering. However, the main thing that really pushed me over the edge was a really crazy nightmare I had last night after I took a mystery drug in a dream I was having (nothing symbolic, I think it was some "modified shrooms" dream gibberish, or something) and it forced me into an overly intense and lucid experience that, upon looking back on it, very closely matches, as far as I can tell, the intensity of a Datura trip. And I definitely don't want to go through an experience like that unprepared again....
DISCLAIMER: Nakamashi❀ᴇxtract (a.k.a., Nakamashi) is a fictional character created by a lonely internet browser with an overactive imagination and egregious amounts of free time. References that he makes to himself or people that he has known or interacted with in no way pertain to real individuals, and any information or personal anecdotes that he presents should be dismissed, along with any of the aforementioned references, as fabrications of an absurdist mind.
 
w0mbat
#15 Posted : 11/10/2009 7:13:17 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 316
Joined: 02-Oct-2009
Last visit: 10-Nov-2012
Location: The White Visitation
I would strongly recommend not using datura at all. Maybe 1 seed for potentiating other psychadelics, but thats it. It's really bad stuff, not entheogenic at all IMO, I would call it a "dementogen" as it really just makes you demented & delusional.

Whatever you decide to do, you should read some of the experiences on erowid to find out what youre in for! Here is a link to one that SWIM wishes he read before taking datura: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=16996
benzyme wrote:

i'm tellin ya, one day i'll interface a mass spec and uv-vis spectrophotometer to a modular synthesizer

 
Ginkgo
#16 Posted : 11/10/2009 7:19:58 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1926
Joined: 10-May-2009
Last visit: 27-Apr-2015
Location: ☂
w0mbat wrote:
I would strongly recommend not using datura at all. Maybe 1 seed for potentiating other psychadelics, but thats it. It's really bad stuff, not entheogenic at all IMO, I would call it a "dementogen" as it really just makes you demented & delusional.

This is a very good description of a Datura overdose. However, I do not agree that goes for dosages of 1-5 seeds, in these dosages it is not delusional at all. To the contrary, it makes the trip more easy to handle, and everything is more focused.
 
kingn3eo
#17 Posted : 12/23/2018 4:54:46 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 34
Joined: 19-May-2018
Last visit: 25-Oct-2019
So.... Being that it's HIGHLY NOT RECOMMEND, For the sake of harm prevention does anyone actually have a what an average soul would call "safe" ex. 5 seeds taken orally, or maybe even a dose by weight? Just my thoughts I seen the post while doing my own research about the plant and I'm very curious. Thanks!
 
AcaciaConfusedYah
#18 Posted : 12/23/2018 5:08:03 AM

DMT-Nexus member

Chemical expertSenior Member

Posts: 1288
Joined: 22-Feb-2014
Last visit: 16-Mar-2024
The issue with "safe dose recommendations" is that the plants vary in potency of the tropanes. From one plant, 5 seeds might be low; in another plant 1 seed might be low.

Please be careful with datura and brugmansia.

(years back)
When my friend gave me my first datura seeds, it was a single pod or two, he told me how to germinate them and how to grow them and about their alkaloid profile. So, I said, "So which part of it are we supposed to eat? the leaves? the flowers? the seeds? the-" he stopped me.

He laughed and said ,"None of it. Grow it. It's a pretty plant." And proceeded to tell me about the time he went for a full blown datura trip..... wowsa. It's not something that I would advise. He was lucky that his girlfriend was there to monitor him.

So, I've taken his advice. I grow datura and brugmansia. Very beautiful plants.Smile
No eating.
Sometimes it's good for a change. Other times it isn't.
 
dragonrider
#19 Posted : 12/23/2018 7:29:38 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Moderator

Posts: 3090
Joined: 09-Jul-2016
Last visit: 03-Feb-2024
Yeah, i would disrecommend any experimentation with datura. I have seen someone taking it and never recover from it. Maybe he was going to be psychotic anyway because of bad genes or something. But he was an experienced psychonaut, and it was after the datura that he became psychotic.

I think it where the books of castaneda that intoduced these plants to popular culture. It is now believed that these books where mostly fictional.
 
PsyDuckmonkey
#20 Posted : 12/23/2018 8:31:54 PM

witch


Posts: 487
Joined: 06-Dec-2015
Last visit: 06-Feb-2024
Location: the neon forest
dragonrider wrote:
I think it where the books of castaneda that intoduced these plants to popular culture. It is now believed that these books where mostly fictional.

Fictional or not, there is a huge difference between modern psychonautica and traditional paths. In modern psychedelic culture, we value safety greatly for a number of reasons, personal, social and cultural.

For a traditional witch in old days, psychedelic exploration occupied an entirely different part of life than it does for even serious modern practicioners, shamans and witches alike. Dying in the 'other world' was a thing back then. Not surviving an initiation was a very real and not unlikely possibility. If someone went stark raving mad from the flying ointment and stayed that way, there were, at least in pre-Christian times, social frameworks for dealing with that. It was often seen as a blessing and an ability, not an illness.

What wannabe tropane explorers need to ask themselves is, what probability of death is acceptable to you? Back in the old days, 5% was probably considered okay. In some major initiations, I'm quite sure there were even worse odds. Is 5% okay for you? Is 10%? If it is, please try to not implicate the psychedelic community in your experimentation and possible death. (Of course if someone had access to modern medical equipment for monitoring vitals, and a doctor as a tripsitter, things would be different... but still.)
Do you believe in the THIRD SUMMER OF LOVE?
 
12NEXT
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.045 seconds.