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DoorSeeker
#1 Posted : 3/15/2017 2:41:07 AM

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So SWIM has done about half a dozen pure dmt freebase trips. He recently tried changa a few times. It was 1:1 b caapi leaf and dmt. He first tried vaporizing changa in a glass vapor genie. He definitely felt the effects from the dmt but when it was "out" and looked inside the b caapi was still there only slightly blackened. This means the dmt vaporized but the caapi didn't. Next he tried smoking changa in a bowl 3 separate times. Each about 120 mg. He felt the effects but they were nowhere near as powerful as pure dmt. He got slight visuals that lasted a bit longer than a pure dmt freebase trip. Pretty disappointing.

There seems to be no good way to smoke changa. The b caapi either doesn't vaporize in the gvg or it is being burnt when smoking in a pipe. SWIM knows it is being burnt in the pipe and wasted because there is 60 mg of dmt in each of of those bowls and he doesn't need anywhere near that to blast off.

The solution seems to be to separate them which is what he tried next. He smoked a bowl of caapi and the hit the gvg containing freebase dmt and BOOM rocketed into superspace.

Given the huge difference in vaporization temperatures between the two products and dmt burning very easily I don't see how one can properly smoke changa and get the effects that one in theory should.
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2headsARE1
#2 Posted : 3/15/2017 2:51:24 AM

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DoorSeeker
#3 Posted : 3/15/2017 3:57:15 AM

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Why is it surprising that not much was gotten out of the pipe? my understnding is that dmt needs to be vaporized to be effective. Combustion is not really how it is supposed to be "smoked". This is the entire reason the gvg is as effective as it is. Anyone will tell you that smoking dmt freebase is not the proper method. Adding harmalas should change the properties of dmt itself. Not getting much out of smoking it doesn't seem that surprising. I don't see how one could effectively "smoke" two substances at the same time with radically different properties regarding how they change states.

Sure some of the dmt gets vaporized in a regular pipe via direct flame. All I'm saying is that it is radically inefficient from one's experience and the properties regarding the substances seems to back this up.
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dreamer042
#4 Posted : 3/15/2017 4:05:19 AM

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Quote:
It was 1:1 b caapi leaf and dmt.

If you make changa with extracted harmalas it's much moar effective than if you just make enhanced leaf with caapi leaf.

It's true harmalas don't vaporize very efficiently and combustion is the preferred method for changa. If you don't torch it and instead cherry/corner the bowl and take long slow draws, it's really very effective.
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2headsARE1
#5 Posted : 3/15/2017 4:06:40 AM

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syberdelic
#6 Posted : 3/15/2017 4:18:52 AM

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I have had good luck vaping pure harmine HCl. It seems to vaporize below DMT at around 120-130C. I wish someone else would try it so it can be confirmed or denied scientific method style.
 
ShamensStamen
#7 Posted : 3/15/2017 5:00:07 AM
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Back when i smoked/vaped Changa, i evaporated some Mimosa or Acacia extract onto some Cannabis, loaded up a bowl in a wooden Cannabis/Tobacco pipe, and topped it off with some freebased full spectrum Rue extract, worked like a charm for me. I let the heat from the flame vaporize/light the Changa, but not the flame itself, and i would always use my finger to put the cherry out after each hit so it didn't just sit there smoking while i wasn't hitting it.
 
pitubo
#8 Posted : 3/15/2017 12:26:00 PM

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syberdelic wrote:
I have had good luck vaping pure harmine HCl. It seems to vaporize below DMT at around 120-130C. I wish someone else would try it so it can be confirmed or denied scientific method style.

That sounds strange to me. Mixed harmine/harmaline HCl can be oven baked at 150 degrees centigrade without even melting.
 
smoothmonkey
#9 Posted : 3/15/2017 5:12:23 PM

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Quote:
If you don't torch it and instead cherry/corner the bowl and take long slow draws, it's really very effective.


^^ This, in a small bong. Nice and slow, until you're there Wink
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TGO
#10 Posted : 3/15/2017 9:01:42 PM

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smoothmonkey wrote:
Quote:
If you don't torch it and instead cherry/corner the bowl and take long slow draws, it's really very effective.


^^ This, in a small bong. Nice and slow, until you're there Wink


I just want to echo this again. Nearly all of my breakthroughs (and my GF's) have been with mullein based changa and it is definitely one of my favorite (and effective) ways to ingest DMT.
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academic_curiosity
#11 Posted : 3/15/2017 10:51:04 PM
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vaped harmalas definitely work...
a few nights ago i vaped some super harmala heavy changa which looked almost "tar-like" (1g caapi leave was mixed with 1g (ACRB) dmt and about 1g of extracted alks from black caapi vine)
i loaded about 150mg into my (wooden)VG and took one hit (i had already smoked other (rue)harmala heavy changa a couple of times that night)
...i purged. aya style- through the back end. it took me a very long time and i had to lye down 3 times until i got to the toilett, which is about 15 meters away.
all acompanied wiht slight aya like visuals. i always thought calling changa "smoked ayahuasca" is kind of an overstatement.
caapi heavy changa taught me something different
 
skoobysnax
#12 Posted : 3/16/2017 4:36:04 AM

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Get yourself a spillproof pocket bubbler. I found the investment well worth it. Spillproof design is best for solo journeys. Mine is thick borosilicate glass. Very sturdy. Changa is for the Bonga. I love changa best for deep work. If you make a good true 1:1 Changa with extracted harmalas you may want to start low and ease your way up. I learned the hard way. They call harmalas "the force" for a reason. My last journey i was in for a good hour before i was anywhere close to baseline. I got what i asked for but not what i expected.
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DoorSeeker
#13 Posted : 3/19/2017 6:42:52 AM

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Hey everybody! Thanks for the responses. Some interesting responses.

Not torching and being careful to just cherry it is an interesting technique one will have to try! Doing it that way definitely makes sense.

Greatful One, your suggestion of mullein based changa is interesting. Will have to try that. Mullein does seem to burn easier than b caapi which may help.

Maybe I'm behind the times but I had never seen a spillproof pocket bubbler before. they seem pretty neat. I'm a bit confused though. You say "changa is for the bonga". Are you counting a spillproof pocket bubbler as bong I guess or is a traditional bong better? Anyone have any opinions on one of these over a bong if one could only get one or the other? I have heard great things about the bong with changa though the level of hyperslap that may result seems a bit scary.
The struggle to free myself of restraints becomes my very shackles.

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Jambra
#14 Posted : 3/21/2017 7:14:14 AM

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The way I've done it is to mix freebase + changa in a glass cone.

Sprinkle of changa to plug the hole,
Sprinkle of Freebase DMT over the changa,
Sprinkle the rest of the changa over the Freebase to protect it.

Hold the flame far enough away that it is not touching the top level changa but so that you can see that it is starting to singe the top of the changa, this should be enough heat to vaporize the DMT freebase. A glass CP lets you see the freebase vaporise when it looks completely melted I then start to pull the cone harder and bring the flame a little closer as I presume the DMT in the changa has also vaporised and now I'm just trying to pull the changa in the same way you would pull a weed cone.

From what I've gathered though from reading the nexus it really comes down to finding a method you prefer and then perfecting it.

Good luck next time Smile
 
DoorSeeker
#15 Posted : 3/30/2017 4:50:37 AM

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I have a couple more questions. When making 10x extract on just mullein based changa as The Greatful One recommended, what kind of ratio do you use? It is so fluffy that even a little bit takes up a huge volume. I don't see how with a normal 1:1 ratio one would get enough dmt in one bowl. Also, for the people saying to hold the lighter farther away and just cherry it are you using a torch lighter or a traditional flame lighter? Thanks again! Smile
The struggle to free myself of restraints becomes my very shackles.

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Sakkadelic
#16 Posted : 3/30/2017 9:54:04 AM

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I never used mullein i always use mint but i guess when treated with solvent and DMT the mullein will kind of lose it's fluffiness and shrink a bit in volume..
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...sts&t=27537&p=12
Chech this thread you can see TGO's mullein based changa and my mint based changa..
Even with a 1:2 DMT:herb ratio me and others could still smoke enough(which wasn't much) to have intense trips
Also the problem is not in the caapi leaf or the 10x, enhanced leaf works pretty well 120mg will certainly knock you off
How exactly are you preparing your changa? Maybe you are wasting or degrading the DMT
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Heavin
#17 Posted : 3/30/2017 11:40:46 PM

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DoorSeeker wrote:
The solution seems to be to separate them which is what he tried next. He smoked a bowl of caapi and the hit the gvg containing freebase dmt and BOOM rocketed into superspace.


It's definitely important to inhibit the MAO first.
 
DoorSeeker
#18 Posted : 3/31/2017 3:52:06 AM

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Thanks Sakkadelic. That link is helpful.

SWIM just took 250 mg of dmt and dissolved it in about 10 ml of acetone and then added 250 mg of b caapi leaf and waited for it to fully evaporate. I agree with you. I think wasting or degrading the dmt is the issue. One is going to try just cherrying the bowl and using 10x mullein changa.

I'm still not sure about exactly what type of lighter is best tough. Using a torch lighter on a bowl seems like overkill but a traditional flame seems very hard to control the heat. Which kind of lighter should one use? Maybe I should start another thread on type of lighter for changa?

Btw, a bowl seems better as one can't get the leaf hot enough in a gvg to burn it. Maybe one will have better luck with mullein though in a gvg. It seems to burn easier than caapi leaf. Any thoughts?

Thanks again Very happy
The struggle to free myself of restraints becomes my very shackles.

Note: All claims by this poster represent the thoughts of a fictional interdimensional hyper-being and are not representative of any actual or real life experiences, ideas or thoughts.
 
DoorSeeker
#19 Posted : 3/31/2017 3:55:41 AM

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Heavin wrote:
DoorSeeker wrote:
The solution seems to be to separate them which is what he tried next. He smoked a bowl of caapi and the hit the gvg containing freebase dmt and BOOM rocketed into superspace.


It's definitely important to inhibit the MAO first.


Yes one seems to have noticed the same. I am wondering if maybe making the 10x mullein without dmt might be better. Smoke the 10x mullein and then hit the gvg with pure dmt...
The struggle to free myself of restraints becomes my very shackles.

Note: All claims by this poster represent the thoughts of a fictional interdimensional hyper-being and are not representative of any actual or real life experiences, ideas or thoughts.
 
TGO
#20 Posted : 3/31/2017 1:12:48 PM

Music is alive and in your soul. It can move you. It can carry you. It can make you cry! Make you laugh. Most importantly, it makes you feel! What is more important than that?

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DoorSeeker wrote:
Heavin wrote:
DoorSeeker wrote:
The solution seems to be to separate them which is what he tried next. He smoked a bowl of caapi and the hit the gvg containing freebase dmt and BOOM rocketed into superspace.


It's definitely important to inhibit the MAO first.


Yes one seems to have noticed the same. I am wondering if maybe making the 10x mullein without dmt might be better. Smoke the 10x mullein and then hit the gvg with pure dmt...


Mullein is not an MAOI, so there is no need to make it into 10x. Plain mullein leaf is what I use as a base/inert herb for absorbing the DMT and harmalas for my changa blend. The harmalas (or caapi, which contain harmalas) are what make it changa.

But yes, smoking harmalas or caapi before taking DMT is a wonderful way to get to hyperspace.

Oh, and a standard bic lighter works well with changa and is best coupled with a bong, IMO.
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