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Interesting blog article on mushrooms of Mexico Options
 
Bancopuma
#1 Posted : 2/27/2017 12:26:28 PM

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An interesting blogpost I stumbled across recently I thought might be of interest to some, from the blog 'Myco Logos: The Ancient Tradition of the Ancient Mushroom'. I found this post interesting due to the musings on the perceived differences in experiential qualities when comparing different mushroom species in active use in Mexico, based on the author's experiences.

http://mycologica.blogsp.../2013_12_01_archive.html

Quote:
The Key is the Container - Ruminations on a Creative Approach to Re-Contextualizing Sacred Mushrooms

As pertains to the qualitative differences between cubensis and the more traditional strains of Psilocybe, in Huautla de Jimenez cubensis is the only mushroom referred to exclusively by it's Spanish--versus Mazatec, name 'San Isidro'; cubensis came with the Spanish and their cattle, and is widely considered the least desirable of the species. The patron saint of labor, farming and livestock, San Isidro is emblematic of the invaders and livestock-culture. Contrary to Wasson's suggestion that the term 'derrumbe' is exclusive to Ps. caerulescens, I heard the term derrumbe applied to both Ps. caerulescens and Ps. zapotecorum. From what I gathered, the 'derrumbe' mushrooms were largely considered the most coveted and desirable, owing to their fuerza/force. Ps. zapotecorum seemed generally to be the most coveted species; they are very strong, quite vivid in the visions, my initial impression was that of friendliness, but they are very serious and powerful. The clearest vision that stands out from my initial experience with the zapotecorum was of seeing highly detailed psychocosmic roses pouring off the altar; it was quite striking, vivid and beautiful. It's a mexican and indigenous mushroom through and through. I think some of the difference is apparent in the respective terminologies for los derrumbes and los pajaritos; the mexicana has more of an ethereal character that seems to evoke interstellar and deep-space vistas. My first time eating the 'chicon nindo' variety of Ps. mexicana--which I brought back from Mexico with me, when I closed my eyes I saw the outline of a cosmic horizon cast in subtle blues. It appeared to be some manner of astral star-city with a new Jerusalem theme, the streets were quiet and there was an aura of deep calm about the scenario. The zapotecorum--by contrast, was more chthonic and perhaps iconically 'shamanic.'

There are reasonably solid and good strains of cubensis, people seem to develop a preference for this or that strain grown in this or that way. I spontaneously and unwittingly became partial to strains of cubensis that were mostly sourced from the Amazon; after sourcing my preferred cubensis genetics, I realized I had a predilection for Amazonian strains. I suppose on a certain level cubensis is a 'universal' mushroom, and convenient. Once basic adjustments are made to technique, Ps. mexicana is just about as easy to grow though it can take a bit more in the way of patience. They require more air-flow while maintaining high humidity, and seem to benefit greatly from supplemental blue LED light in the ~452nm wavelength range. The blue-LED light has been observed to stabilize and normalize their development and morphology in the fruiting-phase. The onset and quality of the experience with mexicana is somehow more 'classical' to what I consider to be the psilocybin-state. One of the major differences is in onset, where cubensis can elicit an uncomfortable rush of patterned and somewhat forceful-viral-alienesque visions, mexicana elicits more of a spacious, calm and welcoming openness. I have uniformly experienced mexicana to be calm, spacious, open, relaxed and deep where cubensis can become unusually dark or forceful. Between the two, I'm definitely settled on mexicana in so far as providing a positive and beneficial experience. I have alot of the younger generation asking questions about the optimal approach to psilocybin mushrooms. In terms of providing guidance and direction to others, I have what I feel is an ethical responsibility to guide people towards mexicana, which I have consistently found does in fact provide a more beneficient, calm and peaceful experience more conducive to the sorts of mystical experience observed in the griffiths study.

In the hopes of putting the final nail into the coffin of this 'elf/fairey' issue, from W.B. Yeats 'The Stolen Child,'

Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand.

I think it important to keep in mind that 'the fairey faith' is a folk-tradition with it's own history, folklore, art and imagery. People seem to get caught up in the imagery and treat it on either anachronistic terms, or view it outside the endemic contexts out of which it arises. This perspective of the fairey-faith--as Wasson observed, is embedded into the very linguistic structure of the Mazatec conceptualization of the mushroom. In preparation for ingestion, I observed shamans lovingly whispering to mushrooms in their hand, using the characteristic reverential diminutive, nti si tho 'the little ones who spring forth,' pequeño niño 'the little children,' pequeño habitantes que vive en el bosques, 'the little inhabitants of the forest.' This linguistic use of reverential diminutive--in reference to the mushroom/elf phenomenon, encompasses a Mazatecan attitude towards mushrooms that is quite beautiful and aesthetic; I also believe this cosmology has a broad history down through time. Much of my own impetus to study these indigenous visionary-plant folk traditions, was in the observation that the bulk of people are very irresponsible and disrespectful in how they approach psychedelics and sacred plants. And while I certainly agree that there CAN be a contextualization effect, I am hesitant to sacrifice the folk traditions, linguistics, arts of native peoples on the bloody altar of patristic-scientistic-fundamentalism simply because the idea of 'elves/fairies' is an uncomfortable one to the scientific paradigm. The time for witch-burnings is over, and I think science has better use than in burning folk-ideologies at the stake. So it is very interesting, I personally feel there is an immense amount of very honest potential in science--I'm versed/studied in science as part of my work, but perhaps it will require a more original and primordial approach to psychospirituality before that depth potential in science is realized.

At times I may be a bit too candid and honest about my own personal experience. Taking a step back from it all, I can see how my story would really come as a bit of a shock. I certainly don't take my particular story so seriously as it may appear, I occasionally reach out to common-minded individuals for feedback on what has been a powerfully transformative life-course. That said, I neither take myself nor these experience as hard-fact; some of the imagery I'm using is basically just playing with imaginative processes on the visionary-archetypal level. The emphasis I place is on the transparency of the theophanic imagination; none of this is concrete or certain, as in that moment we gravitate towards fundamentalism.

The 'contextualization' effect per psychedelics is worthy of comment. I became enamoured with the works of Pablo Amaringo at age 14, and some of it's gravitas may well have been in this 'democratization of epiphany,' that ephiphany and vision was freely available without priestly mediation. When people approach me for guidance per psychedelics--which is happening ALOT these days, I'm quick to point out 'I have no interest in being a teacher, I'm not a shaman, at best I'm a friend with experience who is here to help.' This considered, I have definitely noticed that the visionary content of ayahuasca-experiences seems to span a much broader array of 'themes' than I have encountered in sacred mushrooms. Keep in mind that I am specifically talking about the visionary content, and I feel there is more to psychedelics than simply the visions/hallucinations. My first experience drinking ayahuasca in the Amazon was very centered on snake-type visions, other experiences had distinct dragon or UFO imagery. So when I look at Amaringo's art, while it has a marvelous variety of themes and contexts, on a certain level I very clearly recognize that the art is ayahuasca-themed. That is to say, I'm not entirely sure the broader context of of Amaringo's art faithfully represents the millieu of sacred mushrooms. By comparison, it can be argued that the art of the Huichole is unusually cogent across artists; different artists display a marked cogency of themes within the yarn-art medium. Does this then suggest that peyote-visions look like Huichole art paintings? Can this be extrapolated to other plant-psychedelics? I don't think so ...

My broader suggestion here is that while yes, psychedelics inculcate and evolve a cross-contextual democratization of epiphany, I'm not sure it's good to view it as a 'free-for-all' on absolutely relative terms. I have personally observed many-many people who simply incorporate psychedelics into their psychopathology. In fact, one of the things I very often mention to people is that our culture lacks a necessary-context for using sacred plants in a meaningful way. In my case, I studied the NAC-peyote religion, ayahuasca in the jungle, and mushrooms with the Mazatec, because I felt it necessary and prudent to create a vehicle for deepening and strengthening myself in regards to these plants.
 

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form is emptiness
#2 Posted : 2/28/2017 9:01:27 AM

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I tend to disagree with the notion that the packaging/container (species/strain) has a discernible influence on the experience of the contents (psilocybin). How different is the experience of synthetic psilocybin to naturally produced alkaloids? It might be that Baeocystin and other alkaloids present in certain species contribute the most toward perceived differences. In my view the variation in natural container has no influence. (I never eat the container, always make a tea of the sacrament, for a smoother launch)

I do agree with the notion that many people 'simply incorporate psyches into their psychopathology'. I believe this is the whole current wider crux of the matter. Whats seemingly missing is a coherent 'non-ideological' framework - a Dharma, or Dao of the Logos that allows for development of a universal pragmatic tradition, a spiritual science which includes the intelligent use of psyches, but ultimately transcends such use.

There is nothing new under the sun, there is rediscovery and reawakening to what has always been. Consciousness/Compassion is the only true currency. One purchases a wider view with a deeper pocket of consciousness, but deepening penetrating insight requires not only military grade discipline of zazen, but also a map of the territory, or a phat hit of 5 meo.

Various schools of Buddhists, Toltec warriors, Western Gnostics, and now quantum physics have all massively contributed toward providing the seeker a coherent map of territories which are geared toward transcending purely ideological conceptions of 'reality'.

While Jan Irvin throws the baby out with the bathwater, much of what he proposes has merit. While the wolves are busy herding the sheep, some of the sheep (and even some of the wolves) are quietly leveling up and climbing out of the cave, unveiling the seeming paradox. I am another you.

/rambling
 
Bancopuma
#3 Posted : 2/28/2017 11:22:59 AM

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Quote:
I tend to disagree with the notion that the packaging/container (species/strain) has a discernible influence on the experience of the contents (psilocybin). How different is the experience of synthetic psilocybin to naturally produced alkaloids?


I respectfully disagree, I have definitely noted a distinct difference in character between different species of mushroom, and this distinction is consistent and reliable between sessions and transcends the set and setting factor. Curious as to how many psilocybe species you have sampled? I think consuming them in the form of a tea, instead of whole will likely mute any differences to some degree. Worth noting that the late, great Mazatec shaman Maria Sabina reported that on trying Albert Hofmann's synthetic psilocybin pills, she stated that the spirit of the mushroom was in the pills. This does not mean she considered all mushrooms the same...far from it. For example, she refused to work with P. cubensis mushrooms, and didn't like them. Her favourite and most revered species was P. mexicana. The Mazatec and other indigenous Mexican psilocybe using groups know more about the experiential component of psilocybe mushrooms than any other humans alive, so I think they may have wisdom and insight on such matters, and they have the view that there are distinct differences between different mushroom species and they employ them for different purposes accordingly.

Worth remembering too that mushrooms are not just psilocybin in isolation, they are living organisms containing all manner of biochemical compounds, some of which may modulate the experience. I think an important difference between P. cubensis and much more potent species such as Pan cyans is the obvious marked difference in amount of fungal matter one needs to ingest to get to a certain level. People tend to report that the more potent species produce a clearer feeling high, which doesn't really surprise me as the psilocybin/psilocin is not going to be diluted by the extra fungal matter, which isn't easy on the gut, and is a likely contributor to the greater body load issues reported by some with P. cubensis. Some Pan cyans are particularly rich in amino acid tryptophan, which may modulate the experience, others like P. semilanceata can contain high amounts of phenylethylamine which has been linked to adverse reactions. Regarding the presence of baeocystin (and norbaeocystin), the jury seems to be out as to what extent baeocystin modulates the experience (known to vary markedly in amounts between different species). A contact of mycologist Alan Rockefeller bioassayed pure baeocystin and reported it as having a high body load and yielding little visual activity. I've heard second hand reports from Johnathon Ott and John Allen who bioassayed it and reported it as being very similar in effect to pure psilocybin. Even the psilocin/psilocybin ratio is likely to affect the experience to some degree. I've heard that P. mexicana is a particularly clean source of psilocybin and doesn't contain baeocystin but I'd like to see some data on this. I have consumed pure psilocin in fumarate form, and was really surprised at how different it was to my past mushroom experiences, while obviously being in the same ball park. In a similar vein, I've noted a marked difference between leafy brews of ayahuasca compared to isolated harmala alkaloids and pure DMT for example, and this effect is again consistent for me, and others have noted it too. Synthetic pure mescaline hcl was very distinct for me compared to cactus, but not really a fair test as there are other alkaloids present in cactus. There may well be other compounds in mushrooms that vary between species that may exert a psychoactive effect of their own...I read an interesting piece on this on the Shroomery recently but am unable to find it now.

I remember my first experiences with Hawaiian Pan cyans...buying them legally in the UK, along with P. cubensis, then moving onto growing my own P. cubensis and Pan cyans later...I remember being surprised at how different in character the experiences yielded by these two mushroom species was for me. And these distinctions seemed to be consistent and reliable and transcend set and setting. The Pan cyans induced a more qualitatively lucid, crystalline, visually detailed, colourful and clear headed experience compared to my experiences with P. cubensis which tended to induce more of a lethargic body load, more of a foggy head space compared to the Pans and less colourful visuals (with earthy tones predominating). Not knocking the latter, through which I've had some really amazing life experiences. But despite their much greater potency, I find the Pan cyans to be smoother on both mind and body than P. cubensis can be. I reliably find the more potent species to induce an experience that is cleaner, clearer more distilled in essence...while P cubensis has a tendency to induce a slightly muddier, foggier experience, I think other things in the mushroom dilute the experience to some degree, given the larger quantity of fungal material one must ingest to attain an quivalent level of experience compared to the more potent species. I found the Pan cyans to induce a pretty consistent head space, whereas large doses of P. cubensis I found to be more unpredictable, at least in my early shrooming days, having the potential to overwhelm me emotionally or go a bit dark in vibe at times. I also found the coming up period on P. cubensis to be more anxiety prone and more of an ordeal than with the Pan cyans. Of course, this is purely my subjective take, and other people's mileage may vary. I've found other species I've sampled such as P. semilanceata and P. cyanescens to also have a character seemingly distinct to them, although I have less experience with these compared to the former species.

Two threads discussing Psilocybe mexicana in particular that may be of interest:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me....aspx?g=posts&t=3224

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=65473
 
Swayambhu
#4 Posted : 3/5/2017 12:30:58 AM

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Interesting blog post.
Bancopuma, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the comparison of various species in contrast to p. semilanceata, which is the only species with which I'm familiar.
All the negative things I've read about p. cubensis, i.e. stoney, befuddling, dark, etc. are things I experience on p. semilanceata.
I'm interested to hear from others how p. semilanceata compare with the more potent mushrooms, in particular p. mexicana, but also the Hawaiian pan cyans, inter alia.

 
Bancopuma
#5 Posted : 3/5/2017 7:48:27 PM

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Hey. So some peeps highly regard P. semilanceata, but not all. I've had some great experiences with them (including some dried in honey gifted to me by a friend...very smooth), but they are not my favourite mushroom. Two things of note...P. semilanceata contains high amounts of baeocystin. The jury is still out on how this will influence an experience, but I was in contact with mycologist Alan Rockefeller recently, he said one of his friends bioassayed pure baeocystin and didn't like it, reporting a high body load and little visual activity. So this could be a factor. However I think we should be a little wary of testing compounds in isolation...baeocystin could modulate or augment the effect of psilocybin in a way not evident when testing it alone. In addition, P. semilanceata can contain varying amounts of phenylethylamine, and this has been implicated in adverse reactions. The linked study may be of interest.

Beck O., Helander, A., Karlson-Stiber, C. & Stephansson, N. (199Cool Presence of phenylethylamine in hallucinogenic Psilocybe mushroom: possible role in adverse reactions. Journal of Analytical Toxicology, 22, 1, 45-49.

Abstract


The use of mushrooms containing the hallucinogenic substance psilocybin for intentional intoxication is relatively common. Occasionally, this results in adverse reactions with typical tachycardia that is not evidently caused by psilocybin. This study demonstrates the presence of phenylethylamine in the species Psilocybe semilanceata using gas chromatography-mass spectrometry and shows that the amount of this substance may vary much more than that of psilocybin. The highest amount of phenylethylamine (146 microg/g wet weight) was observed in mushrooms from a case of three young men hospitalized because of adverse reactions. Comparison of the symptoms observed in clinical cases of magic mushroom intoxication with those after intake of pure psilocybin or phenylethylamine suggests that phenylethylamine might have a role in the development of adverse reactions to Psilocybe mushroom intake.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9491968

I've heard that P. mexicana doesn't contain any baeocystin and they are a very clean source of psilocybin. But I'd like to see some data on this. People with experience of this species tend to rate it very highly. I prefer the Hawaiian Pan cyans to P. semilanceata, they are the cleanest, clearest mushroom I've experienced so far. But almost to the point of lacking a distinctive character almost, something P. cubensis was never lacking in!

I'm yet to experience P. mexicana mushrooms myself but am just about to get a grow on. I would definitely encourage you and any other mushroom enthusiasts to sample a range of different species rather than limiting your experience to one alone.
 
downwardsfromzero
#6 Posted : 3/5/2017 8:18:13 PM

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I get what you're saying there about P. semilanceata. I clearly remember how one time with some liberty caps it felt as though moving rollers were passing over my body. This was an experiment to see if there was any difference between eating the caps or the stems, and was carried out consuming the stems only. So it may be that the stems contained a significant amount of baeocystin and less psiloc(yb)in. The visuals were fairly weak for the amount of material consumed, as well.

I decided upon that particular experiment as various people had claimed that the caps and stems of P. semilanceata have differing effects. While I won't claim to have made any kind of systematic study (n=1), it nonetheless appears to be the case that at least something slightly anomalous occurred there. Unfortunately, I don't recall what kind of experience the caps produced, so I can't say whether it was just a baeocystin-rich sample rather than being a difference between the caps and the stems. Embarrased




β€œThere is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Swayambhu
#7 Posted : 3/6/2017 12:12:29 AM

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Thanks Bancopuma!
Semilanceata is the only species I've experienced for the very simple reason that it occurs naturally in good numbers where I live.
I am thinking of cultivation, though, as I like the self-containedness of it, and also want to try new strains. P. Mexicana is at the top of my list.
 
Bancopuma
#8 Posted : 3/6/2017 12:57:20 AM

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Interesting to hear about possible stems vs caps differences in P. semilanceata...I guess its possible different parts of the mushroom contain varying proportions of alkaloids.

And yeah P. semilanceata is our own indigenous psychedelic here in the UK, and there is something special about harvesting your own mushrooms from nature. But cultivation is an adventure unto itself, and armed with a little knowledge and a few bits of equipment, it really isn't hard, and fungi move on a much faster time scale to plants, so it really doesn't take long to get results.

Of all the mushrooms, I'm most intrigued by P. mexicana. I'd recommend you seek out the 'Chicon Nindo' strain in particular, meant to be a highly prolific (and potent) fruiter, as well as a healthy spore producer. The original print for this strain was apparently sourced around 200m from Maria Sabina's home in Huautla de Jimenez. Some people grow P. mexicana for the sclerotia/truffles, but it really seems like the mushrooms are where it's at.

Other species I'd recommend looking into (both in terms of ease of growing and experiential quality) include P. hoogshagenii, P. galindoi and Panaeolus cambodginiensis. A few months ago I stumbled across a patch of fruiting Psilocybe cyanescens mushrooms on a woodchip bed very close to where I live, and these are very highly regarded mushrooms...outdoor cultivation of this species of course should be possible as they are already spreading of their own accord.
 
syberdelic
#9 Posted : 3/6/2017 9:18:32 PM

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My personal favorite is Panaeolus Cyanescens harvested from the Texas gulf coast area. But I will also add that I prefer to make tea as it seems to be a cleaner experience and thus mitigates many of the qualitative differences between them and P. Cubensis leaving only a more potent experience. And I will also add that the conditions required for indoor growing are nearly identical to P. Cubensis. They do require a bit more light to keep from expressing mutations and both mycelial growth and fruiting are around 10-15% slower. Growth seems to happen in spurts. On the other hand, 9-10" fruits are not uncommon with ideal conditions.
 
Bancopuma
#10 Posted : 3/7/2017 11:39:31 AM

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My personal favourite of the species I've sampled so far is also Panaeolus cyanescens, in the past I grew the Hawaiian strain. Apparently this particular strain was found to have a particularly high psilocybin/psilocin ratio, which meant it retained potency very well on drying, and would remain potent long term when dried, unlike P. cubensis.

When I was growing this, my set up was more basic, but I found this more fussy than P. cubensis, at least when it came to fruiting. My strain was a faster coloniser and fruiter than any strain of P. cubensis I worked with. But I found this species to be fussy when it came to fruiting conditions, and if fresh air flow, humidity and temperature weren't in the optimal ranges, they had a tendency to abort. The mycelium was also more sensitive when it came to moisture drips than P. cubensis. Interesting to hear about your observations with the light...good lighting has been recommended to me when fruiting P. mexicana for healthy and bountiful mushroom production.

I'm just getting into mushroom growing again now after a hiatus of a few years, and think this time round my set up is improved so I don't think I'll have any issues growing this species. I've just started a P. mexicana grow, but am about to get a Panaeolus cambodigiensis 'Sandose domesticate' grow on. These are considered about as easy to grow and fruit as P. cubensis, they aren't as fussy as Pan cyans, but are maybe even more potent than the latter, and are uniformly considered to yield a very high order mushroom experience...like Pan cyans, they aren't high yielding, but make up for this with their potency...these days I'm more into quality over quantity. I'm looking forward to sampling some of these fresh (all my most incredible mushroom trips have been through consuming fresh mushrooms) and have just received some reusable tea bags so I can prepare mushroom tea myself.
 
Bancopuma
#11 Posted : 3/28/2017 11:55:19 PM

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Just to follow this up on the topic of Panaeolus cyanescens, an interesting paper I stumbled across recently looking at psilocybin and psilocin in this species.

"All 70 collections contained psilocin, serotonin and urea. Those [mushroom samples] from Hawaii were also relatively rich in psilocybin, whereas the species from Australia and Thailand were virtually exempt from this compound. Many collections also contained detectable amounts of precursors as tryptophan, tryptamine and baeocystin, but 5-hydroxytryptophan - widely encountered in many other Panaeoloideae - was found to be absent in all samples."

Study:

Stijve, T. (1992) Psilocin, Psilocybin Serotonin and Urea in Panaeolus cyanescens from various origin. Persoonia, 15, (1), 117-121.

http://repository.naturalis.nl/document/569927

...I'm curious now as to how levels of tryptophan and 5-hydroxytryptophan vary across other psilocybin containing species, my hunch is that their presence may modulate the mushroom experience to some degree. I'm also curious about the possible influence of tryptamine, as well as baeocystin. Maybe the presence (or absence) or proportion of these various compounds in different species has an influence on their experiential qualities and the reported differences between them.
 
Elpo
#12 Posted : 8/1/2017 9:06:30 AM

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Haven't been on the nexus for a while, but this thread is really interesting.
Never heard of baeocystin or phenylethylamine. Have these been studied recently and is anything know about their presence in P. Cubensis?

I have had P. Semilanceata in jars for a few years now but never tried them... Probably won't now.

I do remember that in the 90's you could buy Hawaaian mushrooms in Holland, but I can't remember which species that was. Would any of you guys know? I always thought it was Copelandia/Panaeolus Cyanescens, but looking at the pictures of them they don't look like the ones I had (or my memory is letting me down).
They were really small, and you needed to eat a lot of them compares to the Cubensis.
I do remember that the experiences were very very powerful, and very visual.

Any help would be appreciated.
"It permits you to see, more clearly than our perishing mortal eye can see, vistas beyond the horizons of this life, to travel backwards and forwards in time, to enter other planes of existence, even (as the Indians say) to know God." R. Gordon Wasson
 
Bancopuma
#13 Posted : 8/1/2017 10:07:48 AM

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Hey Elpo,

These secondary metabolites in psilocybin mushrooms remain understudied at the present time. there is an ongoing Czech study that is seeking to quantify levels of psilocybin, psilocin, baeocystin and norbaeocystin in different species of mushroom, as even simple potency data is largely out of date.

I asked Prof. David Nichols about why [to me and many others] there seems to be such clear and consistent differences in character or experiential quality between different species of mushroom, and he had this to say regarding baeocystin.

Quote:
Tryptamine would be rapidly broken down in the liver by MAO. I think the difference is in the amounts of baeocystin. No one to my knowledge has ever done a study on pure baeocystin, but I suspect it is nearly as active as psilocin, but having only one N-methyl group I suspect that its receptor signaling and brain distribution is different from psilocin. We thought about making some when I was at Purdue, but never got around to doing it. The synthesis is a little tricky, but we could have done it.


I don't wish to turn you off trying any mushrooms...many people rate P. semilanceata very highly indeed. High quantities of phenylethylamine only seems to be a rare issue, and P. semilanceata have a high psilocybin/psilocin ratio so they retain potency very well long term, even stored at room temperature. So if you have never tried this species, I would definitely say it's worth it. It would be interesting to see more mushroom enthusiasts sample a larger variety of species and coming to their own conclusions.

A decade and a half ago now you could buy fresh mushrooms here in the UK...most commonly Psilocybe cubensis but also Copelandia, or as they are now known, Panaeolus cyanescens. These are often referred to as "Hawaiians" or "blue meanies" and in my experience (shared with numerous others) they induce a much higher order experience than Psilocybe cubensis (anyone sceptical that different species have different qualities should have a few sessions each with the latter two species as the differences between them are particularly marked as mushrooms go).

Panaeolus cyanescens is very much more potent than Psilocybe cubensis...by eating more of them, do you mean actual quantity of mushrooms? They produce much smaller mushrooms, so you may sometimes need to ingest more of them, but gram for gram Panaeolus cyanescens is vastly more potent, most people finding it 2/3x as potent as your average Psilocybe cubensis. I am currently growing the "Hawaiian" strain of Panaeolus cyanescens and am looking forward to getting reacquainted with it.
 
Elpo
#14 Posted : 8/1/2017 10:28:58 AM

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Bancopuma wrote:
Hey Elpo,

These secondary metabolites in psilocybin mushrooms remain understudied at the present time. there is an ongoing Czech study that is seeking to quantify levels of psilocybin, psilocin, baeocystin and norbaeocystin in different species of mushroom, as even simple potency data is largely out of date.

I asked Prof. David Nichols about why [to me and many others] there seems to be such clear and consistent differences in character or experiential quality between different species of mushroom, and he had this to say regarding baeocystin.

Quote:
Tryptamine would be rapidly broken down in the liver by MAO. I think the difference is in the amounts of baeocystin. No one to my knowledge has ever done a study on pure baeocystin, but I suspect it is nearly as active as psilocin, but having only one N-methyl group I suspect that its receptor signaling and brain distribution is different from psilocin. We thought about making some when I was at Purdue, but never got around to doing it. The synthesis is a little tricky, but we could have done it.


I don't wish to turn you off trying any mushrooms...many people rate P. semilanceata very highly indeed. High quantities of phenylethylamine only seems to be a rare issue, and P. semilanceata have a high psilocybin/psilocin ratio so they retain potency very well long term, even stored at room temperature. So if you have never tried this species, I would definitely say it's worth it. It would be interesting to see more mushroom enthusiasts sample a larger variety of species and coming to their own conclusions.

A decade and a half ago now you could buy fresh mushrooms here in the UK...most commonly Psilocybe cubensis but also Copelandia, or as they are now known, Panaeolus cyanescens. These are often referred to as "Hawaiians" or "blue meanies" and in my experience (shared with numerous others) they induce a much higher order experience than Psilocybe cubensis (anyone sceptical that different species have different qualities should have a few sessions each with the latter two species as the differences between them are particularly marked as mushrooms go).

Panaeolus cyanescens is very much more potent than Psilocybe cubensis...by eating more of them, do you mean actual quantity of mushrooms? They produce much smaller mushrooms, so you may sometimes need to ingest more of them, but gram for gram Panaeolus cyanescens is vastly more potent, most people finding it 2/3x as potent as your average Psilocybe cubensis. I am currently growing the "Hawaiian" strain of Panaeolus cyanescens and am looking forward to getting reacquainted with it.

Hi Bancopuma,

Thanks for your detailed answer.

I had never heard of those other metabolites, hopefully they will be studied more in the future!

I have stored the P. Semilanceate in a jar filled with CO2 (a very easy method I found on the shroomery) which has been very useful in storing mushrooms for years without losing potency. I think they should be ok still. There is indeed something appealing to trying mushrooms from your own region, so will think about it Smile

From your description I can only assume that the ones I bought in Holland many years ago were the Panaeolus Cyanescens. They were sold as Hawaaian. They were indeed smaller and yes I meant eating more quantity numbers of mushrooms. I remember the potency being very very high, and the visuals were very very strong as well. I clearly remember talking to my friend about that experience and finding it different then the ones on Cubensis. Now that I think of it they were also sold as a bit more expensive as the Cubensis ones.

I was always told they are very hard to grow yourself, but reading your post it doesn't seem that way? Could you share any info on that or guide me into the right direction. I have some experience on growing Cubensis.





"It permits you to see, more clearly than our perishing mortal eye can see, vistas beyond the horizons of this life, to travel backwards and forwards in time, to enter other planes of existence, even (as the Indians say) to know God." R. Gordon Wasson
 
Bancopuma
#15 Posted : 8/1/2017 11:17:39 AM

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Hi Elpo,

No worries. I will check out he CO2 method, sounds promising. And yes indeed there is something nice and wholesome about ingesting psilocybin mushrooms native to one's own region. I would consider the P. semilanceata to be somewhat closer in character to Panaeolus cyanescens than P. cubensis, in the respect they tend to induce a clear, clean experience that is lighter on the body. I find Panaeolus cyanescens by far the most colourful and visionary mushroom, and it also reliably induces much more detailed or denser visuals (it was also more expensive than P. cubensis when it was sold legally here). With P. cubensis it seems like the visionary qualities tend to be diluted or muddied to some degree (likely something to do with the larger quantities required) and I don't find them anything near as colourful as Panaeolus, with a few earthy colours tending to predominate. Despite their much greater potency I find them easier going than P. cubensis, for me they reliably induce a clear, and pretty consistent or level state of consciousness...P. cubensis is liable to be more turbulent...not all the time, but sometimes. Your description definitely resonates with my experience of Hawaiian Panaeolus cyanescens.

They aren't really much more difficult than P. cubensis to grow, and if you can grow one you can grow the other. The differences are that a partly dung based substrate would be highly recommended, a thin casing layer is required to initiate fruiting, and they like a lot more fresh air exchange during fruiting than P. cubensis. But with these few tweaks to technique in mind, they aren't hard to grow.

I've attached a guide I would recommend you check out, this is what I followed previously with success and is what I am loosely following now. I don't wish to break any Nexus rules regarding security, but if you contact me via Shroomology forum (PM me and we can get the ball rolling) I'd be very happy to send you a print when I have some if you'd like.
 
dragonrider
#16 Posted : 8/1/2017 2:52:26 PM

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Those mushrooms you bought in holland, in the 90's, where definately p.cyanescens. If i remember it correctly they where being sold by 2.4 grams (fresh). They where Always fresh when you bought them, because in dried ones the amounts of psilocybin where too easily detectable, wich would have made them illegal to sell in holland (judicial logic.. Razz ). They used to be my favorite's as well, along with p.azurescens and p.semilanceata.

The p.cyanescens experience was indeed much more clear-headed than any other mushroom. I think the p.azurescens where much more powerfull though. Especially in terms of visual effects, but definately less clean and euphoric. More disorienting as well. I think i would place the semilanceata somewhere in between the two. Not as clean as the cyanescens, but definately very euphoric.
 
Elpo
#17 Posted : 8/1/2017 3:31:29 PM

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Thanks for clarifying, just wondering when we say P cyanescens we mean Panaeolus right?
It gets confusing since they were renamed from Copelandia, especially since there is Panaeolus and Psilocybe cyanescens Smile



"It permits you to see, more clearly than our perishing mortal eye can see, vistas beyond the horizons of this life, to travel backwards and forwards in time, to enter other planes of existence, even (as the Indians say) to know God." R. Gordon Wasson
 
dragonrider
#18 Posted : 8/1/2017 7:05:35 PM

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Elpo wrote:
Thanks for clarifying, just wondering when we say P cyanescens we mean Panaeolus right?
It gets confusing since they were renamed from Copelandia, especially since there is Panaeolus and Psilocybe cyanescens Smile




Now that you mention it..Yes, it was panaeolus, and not psilocybe.

It is a little confusing indeed. But i just checked with google pictures, just to be sure.
And unless google messed-up, i'm 100% sure it was panaeolus.
 
Elpo
#19 Posted : 8/1/2017 7:16:34 PM

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dragonrider wrote:
Elpo wrote:
Thanks for clarifying, just wondering when we say P cyanescens we mean Panaeolus right?
It gets confusing since they were renamed from Copelandia, especially since there is Panaeolus and Psilocybe cyanescens Smile




Now that you mention it..Yes, it was panaeolus, and not psilocybe.

It is a little confusing indeed. But i just checked with google pictures, just to be sure.
And unless google messed-up, i'm 100% sure it was panaeolus.

Haha ok thanks a lot!
That means that my memory is still doing a good job.
"It permits you to see, more clearly than our perishing mortal eye can see, vistas beyond the horizons of this life, to travel backwards and forwards in time, to enter other planes of existence, even (as the Indians say) to know God." R. Gordon Wasson
 
 
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