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The Mescaline Extraction Thread Options
 
psilocybin
#1 Posted : 10/25/2007 9:05:54 PM
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MisterGypsy
#2 Posted : 10/26/2007 7:35:42 AM

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I'm interested in trying this extraction out soon. However, I'm unsure as to my potential yield per amount of cacti. Can anyone shed some light on this as well as some pms for good sources, should that not break forum rules. Thanks.
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psilocybin
#3 Posted : 10/26/2007 8:30:42 AM
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Well it varies greatly depending on the cacti used.



"Fable" wrote:
Fable’s
Mescaline Extraction
April 2007



A foot long (30cm) mid section of Trichocereus bridgesii was taken from a fairly mature plant (Not new growth). The section was approximately 7 cm in diameter and weighed 725g.
The spines were removed, then cutting downwards into the natural rib sections, the woody core was removed and discarded, the rib slices were chopped into small sections, the raw cactus pieces weighing a total of 620g. This was dried outside for 1 day then dried in the oven on low (120 Deg C) for an hour and a half. The almost dry pieces were left outside the following day in 30 Deg weather, at this point the pieces were crisp and brittle. The pieces weighed 43g before being transferred to a desiccating chamber for an hour and then blended in a food processor.
After blending and further desiccating, the powder was weighed at 40.9g.
The pulverised cactus material had an almost sticky texture.

One (1) litre of filtered water was put in a pot and the pH lowered (using HCl acid) to approximately 3 the water was then heated to approximately 65 Deg C and the cactus material added. After stirring for a couple of minutes the pH was checked, it was noticed that the pH was now approximately 6. The pH was then lowered to 4 with further agitation.
After 5 minutes the contents of the pot were transferred to a flask to further digest overnight.

While pouring the mixture into the flask a fine white residue was noticed at the bottom of the pot. Initially believed to be the HCL Mescaline salt however this remained unconfirmed. As the pot was still hot the residue dried quickly and was collected into a white powder. Some of the powder was taste tested; it had almost no taste and had a gritty texture. The mixture was then crudely filtered and the liquid portion transferred to a 1.5l flask.

Another litre of filtered water was heated and the strained cactus sludge from the previous extraction added to the pot. The pH was re-adjusted back to between 3 to 4 and left to further digest for 3 days. The mixture was then filtered using a stocking and the bulk of the sludge discarded. The two volumes (now around 2 litres) were added in a pot and left on the stove at a low setting for 2 hours and reduced to 900 ml. The hot solution was then pH adjusted to 10 and transferred to a 2L sep funnel where 400ml of naptha was added. Prior to the addition of the naptha a pungent alkaloid smell was noticed. The sep funnel was shaken numerous times over a period of 10 minutes with the pressure being released regularly, pressure was mostly due to the liquid being 70 Deg C while in the funnel. Approximately 3 hours later the liquid was removed to a flask and the naptha (which now was cloudy with a mild olive tinge to it) was poured into an evaporation dish. This was left for 2 days to evaporate leaving an opaque residue in the dish.
1 tsp of tartaric acid was added to 180ml of very hot water, not all of it dissolving. The resultant acid having a pH of 3.55, this is a known pH of a saturated tartaric acid solution.
Then approximately 150ml of the hot acid solution was added to the evaporation dish and agitated. To help speed up the reaction a scraper was used to lift the residue into the solution.
A white crystalline product quickly started precipitating and the more the residue was disturbed the more precipitate was formed. When the entire residue had seemingly converted to a crystalline salt, the remaining liquid was removed and the precipitate dried and weighed. The salt has a mild olive tinge

3.2g of bridgesii alkaloid salts were recovered.

Mescaline weighs 211g/mol
Tartaric acid weighs 150g/mol
Mescaline tartarate should therefore be in the order of 360g/mol
If we assume that 50% of the final weight is mescaline then 1.6g is mescaline tartarate.

(1.6/360) x 211 = 0.94g of actual mescaline.

(0.94/40.9) x (100/1) = 2.3% Dry Weight

Bingo, a reasonably potent cactus.

Tartaric acid was used to yield the mescaline salt as the molecular weight is high. The mescaline tartarate having a higher molar weight has greater volume when dry than say the hydrochloride salt, so the percentage due to losses should be less.
Mescaline tartarate is sparingly soluble in water so is easily recovered from the solution at room temperature.

After 1 week the 900ml of basified cactus solution was further basified from pH 10 to pH 13, heated to 50 Deg C and 200ml of hot naptha was added (50 Deg C). This was left for 6 hours the naptha taking on an olive tinge. The naptha was removed and evaporated with an oily residue being evident after 24 hours. As before hot concentrated tartaric acid was added however no reaction occurred and the oily residue remained an oily residue. It can be concluded that almost the entire mescaline content was liberated at the first pull and that only plant oils remained in the second pull as no oily residue reacted to form mescaline tartrate.


For a bioassay of similarly extracted T pachanio see the below Erowid entry.

http://www.erowid.org/ex...iences/exp.php?ID=62183[/quote]

[quote="Fable"]I have a couple of refinements to the Tek which worked well with better yield and they are as follows.
To the hot cactus juice add 250mL of naptha instead of 400ml as 250 was more than sufficient to get all the good bits out.
The pKa of Mescaline is 9.56 so you need to aim for a pH of the final solution of around 12 to get all the goodness out (don't need to go higher).
Now for a neat trick I learned in Biochem, "salting out", make up a cup full of hot NaCl the strongest you can get, this is the last thing you put in the mixture. The concentration of ions just went through the roof which pushes the equilibrium in your favor and squeezes out the last of the Mescaline in solution out into the solvent.

At pH = (pKa + 2) you get a 99% push to the freebase, add the salt solution and with the increased efficiency there isn't any need for a second round of extractions.




sorry fable trying to keep it to one thread.
 
MisterGypsy
#4 Posted : 10/26/2007 9:16:05 AM

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Wow. Had never heard of that species before. Thanks. So looking at 3 to 4 doses per 12'' cutting?
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Fable
#5 Posted : 10/26/2007 10:42:49 AM

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The T bridgesii certainly has some horsepower under the spines Very happy
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psilocybin
#6 Posted : 10/26/2007 11:31:57 AM
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A friend of mine actually just sent me 2 beautiful T Bridgesii cuttings.You can find these cuttings using google.
 
Fable
#7 Posted : 11/28/2007 2:22:47 PM

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UPDATE

All the work I have done in the past has been on naturally dried material.
On 4 occasions with 3 different strains, 2 different bridgesii and 1 pachanoi.
Always when rehydrating there was never any elephant snot, no mucilage whatsoever. The residual solids were easily squeezed dry in a stocking.
I was asked to perform a quick extract recently and in the haste the material was not allowed to naturally dry, I ended up with 8L of blended elephant snot which I had to dry off as a paste on a very large tray. When this was dry I powdered it and attempted another extract. Upon re-hydration the elephant snot came back into solution although not quite as bad as before. Lowering the pH didn't help as much as I had expected either.
I now believe that allowing the cactus to sun dry facilitates the natural biochemistry to slowly degrade the polysaccharide bonds in the mucilage of the cactus. There may also be a certain amount of natural fermentation that further breaks these bonds so that properly dried and powdered material when re-hydrated will not produce the mucilage in the extraction brew.
I have more cactus drying and will be able to try out this hypothesis in a week or so.

You can imagine my disappointment having to work with snot when the last 4 extractions have gone off perfectly with no snot.[/u][/b]
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flowirin
#8 Posted : 12/16/2007 11:26:40 PM
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hi.
can i have some chemists help me wid this?
i see this tek as bein:

pre: use acid to break down something unidentified
1) alkalify so all the mesc aline grabs OH and becomes hydrophobic
2) mix with solvent to take mesc aline out of water
a) seperate
3) wet acidify to move mesc aline back into water
4) precipitate out mesc aline

now, chemists use NaOh, since iz one end of pH scale, and Hcl, since is other, and tolulene or xylene or naptha, since strong solvents.

i, however, have a lot of source material, and like baking.
not sure how strong an acid/base is mesc aline in natural form
can i use:

1) baking soda and milk
-> milk precipitates out horrids
2) olive oil
-> since not xylene or toluene or uther necromantic methods
3) vitamin C or coke-a-cola
-> now i know vitamin C is weak, but lot nicer than Hcl.

i don't know how to calculate curves anymore, although i know they exist, but even a 20% yeild is better than xylene and lye

or am i bein misled by stray thots.
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Noman
#9 Posted : 12/17/2007 2:02:39 AM

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"Fable" wrote:

I now believe that allowing the cactus to sun dry facilitates the natural biochemistry to slowly degrade the polysaccharide bonds in the mucilage of the cactus. There may also be a certain amount of natural fermentation that further breaks these bonds so that properly dried and powdered material when re-hydrated will not produce the mucilage in the extraction brew.
I have more cactus drying and will be able to try out this hypothesis in a week or so.[/u][/b]


Have you tried working with fresh material?
My friend has only worked with fresh thus far and has yet to get snotted.
 
XENONSION
#10 Posted : 1/2/2008 8:23:43 PM
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Recently did an extraction on some P torch, 220 grams dried and powdered cactus material. Standard a/b extraction and so far yielded 1.5 grams from doing 4 pulls, plan to do 8-10 pulls total or until no more is able to be extracted. Will update when completed with final yield

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flowirin
#11 Posted : 1/3/2008 10:56:06 AM
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hi.
does anyone have pictures of what mescaline tartrate might look like?
pale greeneyyellow spiky things?
how does it taste? slightly acidic?
did i really grow some using only baking soda, rice bran oil and tartaric acid?
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Fable
#12 Posted : 1/3/2008 11:52:27 AM

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Apparently a full go of tart was much milder and more E like than expected.

I have been told that Lorax's acetone precipitation method is the best, where the solvent with freebase is heated to simmering and anhydrous acetone with HCl in it is added to the solvent and Mesc-HCl starts precipitating out almost immediately.
It takes a bit more work to prepare the Acetone + HCl as it needs to be anhydrous so the liquid carrying the HCl needs to be soaked up with a dessicant in the acetone leaving HCl gas in the acetone. Sounds like hard work but apparently the end product is powerful.

Vitamin C is ascorbic acid and a saturated solution has a natural pH of 3.5 ish I think.
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scamie
#13 Posted : 1/13/2008 12:19:42 PM
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maybe a stupid question but what's benzene < i live in holland> Is it possible to use naptha as a solvent?
 
XENONSION
#14 Posted : 1/13/2008 1:57:53 PM
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"scamie" wrote:
maybe a stupid question but what's benzene < i live in holland>
Is it possible to use naptha as a solvent?

Used xylene for the extraction, worked great.

Toluene can be used in place of benzene. Benzene is also used in watch making for cleaning the hairsprings.

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MagikVenom
#15 Posted : 1/13/2008 5:59:01 PM

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"maybe a stupid question but what's benzene" Its is a solvent that is know to cause cancer. Not reccommened.
 
XENONSION
#16 Posted : 2/7/2008 3:43:54 AM
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XENONSION wrote:
Recently did an extraction on some P torch, 220 grams dried and powdered cactus material. Standard a/b extraction and so far yielded 1.5 grams from doing 4 pulls, plan to do 8-10 pulls total or until no more is able to be extracted. Will update when completed with final yield

little update here..

lost count of my pulls, but did 12-15 at least. and was still getting 150-200mg per pull. After cleaning with acetone, ended up with 5.6 grams of HCL, left my jugs sit, can always go pull more later, just got tired of doing it, haha

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Noman
#17 Posted : 2/10/2008 6:05:47 AM

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What are you pulling with?
 
XENONSION
#18 Posted : 2/12/2008 9:04:05 PM
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Noman wrote:
What are you pulling with?
xylene

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Big Inhale
#19 Posted : 4/14/2008 3:22:20 PM

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What cacti has higher alks San pedro peruvian torch or bridgesi
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forces
#20 Posted : 4/20/2008 6:48:21 PM
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XENONSION wrote:
"scamie" wrote:
maybe a stupid question but what's benzene < i live in holland>
Is it possible to use naptha as a solvent?

Used xylene for the extraction, worked great.

Toluene can be used in place of benzene. Benzene is also used in watch making for cleaning the hairsprings.



But works Naptha also, cause xylene is difficult to get in Holland.
 
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