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Crown and Klean strip VMP have changed chemically. Options
 
benzyme
#41 Posted : 1/10/2017 5:26:42 AM

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the cloudiness is due to microemulsions.
from the linked pdf's, it looks like they added some polymers to the formula?

I'd screen naphtha, but I don't have an APCI interface. I can only test ionizable solvents. this is a job for GCMS.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
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#42 Posted : 1/10/2017 9:39:53 AM
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benzyme wrote:
the cloudiness is due to microemulsions.
from the linked pdf's, it looks like they added some polymers to the formula?

I'd screen naphtha, but I don't have an APCI interface. I can only test ionizable solvents. this is a job for GCMS.



@Benz

Quick question, I have this other container of klean strip naphtha, same as this recent container I used, though it doesn't 'smell' the same as the other [is there a typical naphtha smell?], although this 'different smelling' naphtha evaporates clean [poured a little onto a glass dish and it left absolutely no trace, film, nothing]. Why would there be a contrast in how it smells? Fine to use?
 
WokeWave
#43 Posted : 1/10/2017 10:14:50 AM

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I would really like to know how much the VM&P is around where you live guys. It's freaking expensive around here?!
This world is a hoax! Go for it and create your own reality...
 
WokeWave
#44 Posted : 1/10/2017 10:16:10 AM

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benzyme wrote:
the cloudiness is due to microemulsions.
from the linked pdf's, it looks like they added some polymers to the formula?

I'd screen naphtha, but I don't have an APCI interface. I can only test ionizable solvents. this is a job for GCMS.



Yeah that sounds like a reason. So...when my naphta leaves no traces...is it fine to use? I already ordered a cleaner alternative. Best thing would be pure hexane but it's not that easy to purchase.
This world is a hoax! Go for it and create your own reality...
 
benzyme
#45 Posted : 1/10/2017 2:12:52 PM

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tatt wrote:
benzyme wrote:
the cloudiness is due to microemulsions.
from the linked pdf's, it looks like they added some polymers to the formula?

I'd screen naphtha, but I don't have an APCI interface. I can only test ionizable solvents. this is a job for GCMS.



@Benz

Quick question, I have this other container of klean strip naphtha, same as this recent container I used, though it doesn't 'smell' the same as the other [is there a typical naphtha smell?], although this 'different smelling' naphtha evaporates clean [poured a little onto a glass dish and it left absolutely no trace, film, nothing]. Why would there be a contrast in how it smells? Fine to use?


is it a light, or medium (weight) naphtha? medium naphtha contains some aromatics, and has a higher boiling point range.
vm&p (light naphtha) has a distinctive lighter fluid smell. it is a mixture of short-chain aliphatic hydrocarbons, including iso-aliphatics.



"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
syberdelic
#46 Posted : 1/10/2017 4:13:37 PM

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The can of naphtha that I was able to repeat the cloudy vinegar test with was used for A/B extraction as well as recrystalization and I can tell you that the final product was super clean. I have done many A/B extractions and this was possibly the cleanest. Whatever chemicals were added, if it was intentional, is likely to control evaporation rate.

Possibly if we want to remove said chemicals, acid washes could be done until washing solution comes out clear but that seems like it may be completely unnecessary.
 
WokeWave
#47 Posted : 1/10/2017 7:56:53 PM

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Well the naphta i used was totally fine with the evap. test.
But it left my vinegar cloudy.
Today i took a look in the freezer...and i expected some crytals but I got clumps. One of them is huge. It looks like a piece of sugar which disolves in tea.
I'm not really sure what that means Wut?
This world is a hoax! Go for it and create your own reality...
 
โ—‹
#48 Posted : 1/11/2017 12:21:28 AM
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benzyme wrote:


is it a light, or medium (weight) naphtha? medium naphtha contains some aromatics, and has a higher boiling point range.
vm&p (light naphtha) has a distinctive lighter fluid smell. it is a mixture of short-chain aliphatic hydrocarbons, including iso-aliphatics.



here's from the msds:





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syberdelic
#49 Posted : 1/12/2017 8:50:07 PM

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After letting the naptha and about 20% aceitic acid sit for a couple days, both are clear and shaking/inverting causes only normal light emulsions. I will let the whole thing evaporate and see if there is any residue. My assumption is that only if there is some sort of salt or oil left behind from the aqueous solution that we have anything to worry about.
 
syberdelic
#50 Posted : 1/14/2017 11:30:47 PM

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Bad news: There is an acetate salt residue from the aqueous solution after full evaporation

Good news: This salt can be analyzed
 
benzyme
#51 Posted : 1/15/2017 12:51:24 AM

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is that just from adding vinegar to vm&p?
I may have to try this. just picked up a qt. of kleen strip today.
i can definitely test salts.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
downwardsfromzero
#52 Posted : 1/15/2017 1:43:57 AM

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syberdelic wrote:
Bad news: There is an acetate salt residue from the aqueous solution after full evaporation

Good news: This salt can be analyzed

Have you evaped a sample of the acetic acid alone, without mixing with the naphtha first?
i.e. testing a blank




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โ€• Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
syberdelic
#53 Posted : 1/15/2017 2:12:41 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
syberdelic wrote:
Bad news: There is an acetate salt residue from the aqueous solution after full evaporation

Good news: This salt can be analyzed

Have you evaped a sample of the acetic acid alone, without mixing with the naphtha first?
i.e. testing a blank


I will try it, but I'd bet money that it comes out clear.
 
syberdelic
#54 Posted : 1/15/2017 2:14:25 AM

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benzyme wrote:
is that just from adding vinegar to vm&p?
I may have to try this. just picked up a qt. of kleen strip today.
i can definitely test salts.


Yes, give it a shot. If yours doesn't go cloudy, I can send you some of the salts that I recovered.
 
Mindlusion
#55 Posted : 1/15/2017 2:15:46 AM

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syberdelic wrote:
downwardsfromzero wrote:
syberdelic wrote:
Bad news: There is an acetate salt residue from the aqueous solution after full evaporation

Good news: This salt can be analyzed

Have you evaped a sample of the acetic acid alone, without mixing with the naphtha first?
i.e. testing a blank


I will try it, but I'd bet money that it comes out clear.



keep in mind 'distilled white vinegar' isn't always as clean as it looks, some dissolved organics, could leave a residue, so do a control test too if you do Smile

EDIT:

Wow I literally did not read the post or I read it and saw something else. Exactly that was said, My mistake!
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syberdelic
#56 Posted : 1/15/2017 3:01:10 AM

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And this is not grocery store vinegar. It is glacial acetic acid diluted with distilled water to 20%. The label claims 99.8%.
 
benzyme
#57 Posted : 1/15/2017 5:05:25 AM

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you could send me some salts, and I will attempt an experiment with HCF Vinegar, and Kleen Strip VM&P. I still have that Kodak Glacial Acetic Acid, so I could try that as well.

again..this has to be a salt, or ionizable solvent, for me to run through electrospray.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
syberdelic
#58 Posted : 1/15/2017 5:39:03 AM

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It has to be an acetate salt of something that is soluble in naphtha and boils under 130F. The salt form obviously has a much higher boiling point.
 
syberdelic
#59 Posted : 1/15/2017 5:43:31 PM

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The acetic acid does indeed evaporate entirely, leaving nothing behind so the residue is most definitely being pulled from the naphtha.
 
benzyme
#60 Posted : 1/27/2017 9:10:15 PM

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I'm screening it now.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
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