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Gene Modification for entheogen sustainability. Options
 
Phantasma
#1 Posted : 4/5/2016 7:08:58 AM

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Recently, as a soon to be new college student looking for a major, i have found myself greatly interested in biological science, particularly gene modification. I have payed attention to related milestones, such as the work toward making a glowing plant by inserting a firefly gene into the plants genetic structure. http://www.nytimes.com/1...gene-implant-grows.html . There is also a case in which flowers are modified to change colors throughout the day http://www.idtdna.com/pa...technology-for-everyone .

Also, if you didn't know already, aspartame is made by genetically modified e coli bacteria which secrete aspartame crystals. http://www.upi.com/Scien...ces-used/8131377527919/

Then there is the case where we used gene modification to mass produce insulin. http://www.abpischools.o.../diabetes/diabetes6.cfm this also explains the basics on how it was done.

Considering worldwide deforestation, pollution, and the fact that the main sources for DMT are trees, there is an obvious problem with sustainability. Marijuana, for example, is easy to sustain, because there is a part of the plant with a huge concentration of the compounds that are used for medicinal or psychoactive reasons and it grows relatively fast. Trees, however, do not.

Then there is talk about possible extractions with different species of succulents, however the safety of said extraction would be unknown. And then there is phalaris which you would have to grow a lot of.

So here is my idea: genetically modify a species of plant which is easily controlled (does not spread) that would, say, produce much higher levels of N-N-DMT, hopefully past the 5% range, that doesn't contain other dangerous alkaloids.
In lamens, the goal would be to modify Phalaris genes to simply (im aware it isn't simple) produce and store DMT at a higher rate to achieve a higher level of sustainability and possibly reduce or eliminate the need for extractions preformed with dangerous chemicals.

I have seen that this was brought up briefly about 6 or 7 years ago, and it didnt seem to be very popular. However considering recent scientific advances, and the increased need for biotechnology in todays world, i definitely think it could be achieved in a few years with hard work and dedication alongside collaboration between the nexian minds.

I have seen too many trees demolished and too much shady business involved with DMT because of the hoops people have to jump through to extract it themselves. Its not necessarily difficult, but unnecessary. I would hope that one day soon we can all have a potent DMT bush next to our cannabis plants, and this problem of having to locate more rootbark will be a distant memory.

I am aware that while there may be some of you who have the knowledge to work on this, you may not have the time. I ask you that perhaps you can share some of this knowledge so that someone who does is able to work at this goal more efficiently.

This wont be easy, but neither was anything truly worth attaining.

Thank you for reading, and i would greatly appreciate any suggestions, or criticisms.

Peace and love,

Phantasma
 

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Phantasma
#2 Posted : 4/5/2016 7:11:14 AM

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(Reserved for future edit space)
 
Psilociraptor
#3 Posted : 4/5/2016 3:02:31 PM
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I've thought about this before as well as potentially transfecting bacteria or exploiting certain plants to make novel compounds, but it's not quite so simple. What your proposing would probably be a lot easier but still daunting as it would involve a lot of research into DMT metabolism by phalaris. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that it shares a lot of common anabolic pathways with those alkaloids you're trying to get rid of, making such an endeavor highly involved and complicated and frankly I doubt extensive research has been done into such a thing. Still though, it's an interesting concept and with the advent of things like CRISPR the notion of manipulating organisms into drug production has become far more viable to the hobbyist.
 
Phantasma
#4 Posted : 4/5/2016 3:48:47 PM

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Psilociraptor wrote:
I've thought about this before as well as potentially transfecting bacteria or exploiting certain plants to make novel compounds, but it's not quite so simple. What your proposing would probably be a lot easier but still daunting as it would involve a lot of research into DMT metabolism by phalaris. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that it shares a lot of common anabolic pathways with those alkaloids you're trying to get rid of, making such an endeavor highly involved and complicated



Well i just used phalaris as an example, however with other species you could avoid having to remove alkaloids, such as psychotria. But i definitely agree, its not going to be a walk in the park. But with gene modification, we can produce anything we want or need, and we can avoid the destruction of the planet in the process, and while the mission will be a difficult one, i dont think its impossible.

Perhaps mimose could also be used, or an acacia species.
 
Psilociraptor
#5 Posted : 4/5/2016 4:07:52 PM
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Phantasma wrote:
But i definitely agree, its not going to be a walk in the park. But with gene modification, we can produce anything we want or need, and we can avoid the destruction of the planet in the process


Very happy !!! Careful bud! That's the mentality that got us into this mess in the first place! All technology comes with a price and this has some serious potential for both good as well as unforeseen consequences. I can't imagine it's particularly harmful, but that's the thing... You never imagine it. Anyways, id be less excited about mimosa or acacia as they're already relatively effective. If possible it'd be preferable to use a species that grows in climates where these things are less accessible. My two cents at least. Either way, gene editing could be an interesting next phase in the drug war.
 
Phantasma
#6 Posted : 4/5/2016 4:30:33 PM

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Psilociraptor wrote:
Phantasma wrote:
But i definitely agree, its not going to be a walk in the park. But with gene modification, we can produce anything we want or need, and we can avoid the destruction of the planet in the process


Very happy !!! Careful bud! That's the mentality that got us into this mess in the first place! All technology comes with a price and this has some serious potential for both good as well as unforeseen consequences. I can't imagine it's particularly harmful, but that's the thing... You never imagine it. Anyways, id be less excited about mimosa or acacia as they're already relatively effective. If possible it'd be preferable to use a species that grows in climates where these things are less accessible. My two cents at least. Either way, gene editing could be an interesting next phase in the drug war.



Oh i completely agree! Even after success we would have to spend time testing the plant extensively to make sure that we only altered the genes we needed, and that we dont accidentally make a man eating psychotria v lol XD. My hope would be that this kind of breakthrough could actually stop the drug war. If you could grow anything you wanted in your own house, how could anything possibly be stopped? There would be no more definitive sources and trafficking would be much less neccessary.
 
nikshaz
#7 Posted : 4/5/2016 9:04:14 PM
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I was actually wondering the same thing. But just a quick thought, with all the studies ongoing about GMO's, we could have the possibility of increased toxicity of N,N-Dimethyltryptamine, or even the increased toxicity of other alkaloids in the plant. Then we have the overall health of human beings consuming these GM entheogenic plants. I.E. Antibiotic resistance in the plant to the immune system. How are our bodies going to react?
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nikshaz
#8 Posted : 4/5/2016 10:03:46 PM
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Double post?
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WhiteDragon
#9 Posted : 6/18/2016 7:09:11 PM

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This has been on my mind for some time Phantasma, modifying species for our own requirements is evident all around, for example the number of dog breeds, and plant breeding to select desirable traits is not news, recent development is Golden Rice project after some genetic modification now has a beta carotene incorporated in the rice grain which should alleviate a load of dietary deficiencies in the third world. An approach I consider more feasible from my point is messing with the ploidy of selected plants by immersing seeds in Colchicine and testing the surviving plants, a long term project with a lot of detailed testing and measurement needed.
I believe the saving grace is that it isn't a new function to be incorporated into a given organism but an increase of the functionality that already provides the N'N' DMT. I have it stuck in my mind that the shikimic acid pathway that is the start of the encoding through to DMT is embedded in the codon UGG sequence to kick off the Tryptophan which is the limit of my knowledge. I don't believe that increasing the UGG codon number would necessary give improved/increased DMT - messing about could easily generate some of the other tryptamines - there's a thought.
Best of luck Phantasma in your studies, I am envious as I would have enjoyed the biology sciences.
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Valmar
#10 Posted : 6/18/2016 8:14:33 PM

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I don't think genetic modification is the answer. Given the horror stories that have emerged out of indepedent studies looking at the safety of GM foods, I just don't think that GM science as a whole knows anywhere near enough about how DNA and genes work. But, you don't actually have to know how it works in order to abuse it...

DNA, and how it works, is still a mystery, despite what corporate-funded science proclaims. Science journals aren't that trustworthy, when it comes to publishing accurate science, either:
https://nexusilluminati....rocess-at-heart-of.html

Peer review doesn't work if one's peers are lazy, ignorant or outright blinded by bias. So, I'm just not excited by all of the proclamations of scientific "breakthroughs"... reeks of scientism, more than actual science.
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obliguhl
#11 Posted : 6/19/2016 9:07:33 AM

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entheogenic-gnosis
#12 Posted : 6/19/2016 12:25:28 PM
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Phantasma wrote:
Recently, as a soon to be new college student looking for a major, i have found myself greatly interested in biological science, particularly gene modification. I have payed attention to related milestones, http://www.nytimes.com/1...gene-implant-grows.html . There is also a case in which flowers are modified to change colors throughout the day http://www.idtdna.com/pa...technology-for-everyone .

Also, if you didn't know already, aspartame is made by genetically modified e coli bacteria which secrete aspartame crystals. http://www.upi.com/Scien...ces-used/8131377527919/

Then there is the case where we used gene modification to mass produce insulin. http://www.abpischools.o.../diabetes/diabetes6.cfm this also explains the basics on how it was done.

Considering worldwide deforestation, pollution, and the fact that the main sources for DMT are trees, there is an obvious problem with sustainability. Marijuana, for example, is easy to sustain, because there is a part of the plant with a huge concentration of the compounds that are used for medicinal or psychoactive reasons and it grows relatively fast. Trees, however, do not.

Then there is talk about possible extractions with different species of succulents, however the safety of said extraction would be unknown. And then there is phalaris which you would have to grow a lot of.

So here is my idea: genetically modify a species of plant which is easily controlled (does not spread) that would, say, produce much higher levels of N-N-DMT, hopefully past the 5% range, that doesn't contain other dangerous alkaloids.
In lamens, the goal would be to modify Phalaris genes to simply (im aware it isn't simple) produce and store DMT at a higher rate to achieve a higher level of sustainability and possibly reduce or eliminate the need for extractions preformed with dangerous chemicals.

I have seen that this was brought up briefly about 6 or 7 years ago, and it didnt seem to be very popular. However considering recent scientific advances, and the increased need for biotechnology in todays world, i definitely think it could be achieved in a few years with hard work and dedication alongside collaboration between the nexian minds.

I have seen too many trees demolished and too much shady business involved with DMT because of the hoops people have to jump through to extract it themselves. Its not necessarily difficult, but unnecessary. I would hope that one day soon we can all have a potent DMT bush next to our cannabis plants, and this problem of having to locate more rootbark will be a distant memory.

I am aware that while there may be some of you who have the knowledge to work on this, you may not have the time. I ask you that perhaps you can share some of this knowledge so that someone who does is able to work at this goal more efficiently.

This wont be easy, but neither was anything truly worth attaining.

Thank you for reading, and i would greatly appreciate any suggestions, or criticisms.

Peace and love,

Phantasma


Quote:
such as the work toward making a glowing plant by inserting a firefly gene into the plants genetic structure.


Perhaps the genetics from biolumenescent fungi could be used to create glowing plants?

Quote:
Found largely in temperate and tropical climates, currently there are known more than 75 species[1] of bioluminescent fungi, all of which are members of the order Agaricales (Basidiomycota) with one exceptional ascomycete belonging to the order Xylariales.[2] All known bioluminescent Agaricales are mushroom-forming, white-spored agarics that belong to four distinct evolutionary lineages. The Omphalotus lineage (comprising the genera Omphalotus and Neonothopanus) contains 12 species, the Armillaria lineage has 10 known species, while the Mycenoid lineage (Mycena, Panellus, Prunulus, Roridomyces) has more than 50 species. The recently discovered Lucentipes lineage contains two species, Mycena lucentipes and Gerronema viridilucens, which belong to a family that has not yet been formally named.[3] Armillaria mellea is the most widely distributed of the luminescent fungi, found across Asia, Europe, North America, and South Africa.

https://en.wikipedia.org...of_bioluminescent_fungi


When animals are genetically modified in the lab, they are given "genetic markers" so you can tell "this is a clone or genetically modified creature" basically telling you "lab made genes", some dog clones have been given UV reactive claws, or in this article http://latimesblogs.lati...cloned-south-korea.html
The dogs "glow in the dark"

Plants are better chemists than humans, so if you could genetically design plants to produce large amounts of treasured compounds I would be all for it...but I hope you can find a way to make them glow, or some way to identify that they are genetically altered.

Though converting indole into indol-3-ylglyoxyl chloride then reacting that with anhydrous dimethylamine is not very hard...

...nor is a tryptamine/ethyl formate synthesis of DMT...

You can even use tryptamine (made by decarboxylation of tryptophan) and methyl iodide to produce N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium iodide, which can then be demethylated to DMT in a number of ways...

When it comes to sustainability I always wanted to obtain mass amounts of desmantus leptolobus, Desmanthus illinoensis, and peganum harmala seeds and plant them everywhere I could. These plants will grow in most places in the United states, peganum harmala is considered a weed in New Mexico, and desmanthus plants are seen as weeds through out the mid-west, I'm sure I could find prime areas to seed wild fields of these plants, ensuring free access to them, and wild growth.

The chemistry seems safer than genetic modification of plants in my mind, are there not potential risks involved with genetic modification?

There were issues surrounding Monsanto that raised concerns for a lot of people, as well as concerns regarding genetically modified organisms, I never researched it very thoroughly, but I remember some of the issues....




-eg
 
RhythmSpring
#13 Posted : 6/19/2016 3:28:01 PM

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We don't need to modify genes to make them sustainable. We just need to grow moar of them.
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entheogenic-gnosis
#14 Posted : 6/19/2016 4:22:44 PM
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Quote:
what a fabulous black box that would make. Get two enzyme preperations, one that can methylation s-adenosyl-homocysteine to S-adenosyl-methionine and another that can regenerate s-adenosyl-homocysteine by transferring a methyl group to the available amine. Two catalysts in a chamber heated to 37°c, with a spigot adding tryptamine at the top and another releasing DMT out the bottom. That's the science, I'll leave the details to the engineers.

-shulgin; TIHKAL; DMT is everywhere chapter


In the biosynthetic pathway to DMT tryptophan is decarboxylated (amino acid decarboxylase) to tryptamine (releasing CO2), this tryptamine is then methylated by the indole amine methyl transerase (INMT) S-Adenosyl methionine (SAM), which becomes S-Adenosyl-L-homocysteine (SAH) as it donates the methyl group to the amine nitrogen of the tryptamine, giving N-methyl-tryptamine, which is again methylated by SAM (giving SAH as it donates the methyl group to the amine nitrogen of the N-methyl-tryotamine) giving N,N-Dimethyltryptamine.

Shulgins box would be constantly reconverting SAH to SAM, and the SAM would constantly be becoming SAH as it donates methyl groups to tryptamine and N-Methyl-tryptamine, ultimately giving DMT...

Talk about sustainability...

Though this would be a bit more complex than shulgin makes it sound, it seems plausible...

I'm still in favor of chemistry, the tryptophan precursor should never be in short supply...

Then again there is a massive number of plant species which contain DMT and that number is growing all the time, sustainability shouldn't ever be a concern...

Though a genetically altered plant that could produce massive levels of treasured compounds would be worth looking into, it interests me any way...

-eg
 
Orbiting
#15 Posted : 6/19/2016 7:14:22 PM

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I hope this isn't off topic, and much thanks to etchnio-gnosis (sorry spelling) ha

That was a very interesting breakdown of the bio synthesis

My question is this do the roots of Mimosa hostillis do all the bio synthesis in the root cortex I guess thats where it happens


That is do they need the rest of the plant?

Could MH roots be taken off of a baby plant and grafted onto an established tree under the correct conditions for the roots to graft onto the established plant

If we use the top tree as a sort of "reverse scion" could the roots rapidly ploriferate and do their thing to store food and procure nutrients for this random plant living on top of them?! All the while bio synthing you know what

IMO gm would be really nice but I'm confident there's a more "natural" path perhaps the one I just stated l, I'm going to do a few tests in the coming weeks with grafting across species
 
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#16 Posted : 6/20/2016 9:24:40 AM

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Why plants? You already have fungi that produce Psilocin which is only a hydroxy group away from DMT.
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