As it happens I've introduced someone very close to me to the spice. He's pretty much family and while we don't always agree on things, he's like my brother. He knew I had some experience with ayahuasca and had begged to be a part of that, after I discovered the spice and extraction I thought that might be a better medium for him. When I introduced him to the spice it was a small taste. I watched him carefully, and after he returned to baseline I gave him another slightly larger taste. He had a wonderful peaceful time with beautiful kaleidoscopic visuals, no entity experience, no OBE's.

Afterwards he talked as though it was the greatest drug ever. He was begging me for more, to give him some. I declined, stating that there were others I needed to share this experience with and that I didn't have any plans to do any extractions for some time. He asked on my sources, which I also declined to share.

He is resourceful and information is available for those that would seek it, I found out on my own. Since then he has informed my that he has aquired the plant material extract on his own and make pharmahuasca.

This is where my own issues come up. He is an adult, he is entitled to make his own mistakes, just as anyone else. He hasn't been forthright with his intentions but I am certain that he is planning to go ahead and brew the tea and give himself a hero-dose because he wants to really "trip balls"

I feel obligated to talk him out, or offer to watch...something... But truth be told I want nothing to do with the mess that it might entail. Nor do I feel qualified to offer any kind of care during a pharmahuasca journey. I've only ever done it under an experienced shaman's care who sang icaros which I feel are an integral part of the experience.

Am I crazy to think I am somehow responsible for this? Should I leave him to do whatever it is he will do? Or should I offer because it's the right thing to do?

Any advice is appreciated.

Forgive me if this is the wrong section but being a new member I have limited options.

Tell him your concerns. Offer to trip sit him if he wants it, but understand that you are not responsible for his actions.

Also, remember that there is no 'right' way to use a psychedelic. A lot of folks here like to think of Ayahuasca as something 'holy' and if that's what it is to you, that's awesome, but wanting to simply 'trip balls' is another perfectly valid approach. Icaros are nice, shamans are nice, but that's just one culture's approach to Aya.

Blessings
~ND

Some people really like to learn the hard way. Not much you can do about it - it can be frustrating.

I've seen multiple people try to trip balls with Ayahuasca and end up giving themselves PTSD that haunts them for years. People think because you cant overdose on it that that means it is automatically safe.... But it is certainly possible to mentally and emotionally traumatize yourself - especially with Ayahuasca more then other psychedelics because it can be so overwhelmingly powerful sometimes.

Even without PTSD I have seen people need multiple ceremonies from an experienced guide just to clean up the mess they made of themselves by not taking their time with the medicine. Before they can go to deeper healing they have to heal everything they did to themselves drinking too much too soon.

I am not trying to say that drinking on your own is bad.... But drinking too much too fast before you get some experience under your belt can easily go bad - I have seen it numerous times. So I understand your concern about your friend - there are potential dangers for over-zealous people.

He seems set on drinking. Maybe you can convince him that this medicine is best met with patience and care - building up experience over time and gradually rather then immediately going as hard as you can. Too much Ayahuasca is not a fun experience at all. You can always drink more - but you cant really un-drink anything.

Hopefully he listens. If not - maybe luck will be on his side. Or maybe he will just need to learn this one the hard way. I hope if he is your friend he will listen to your advice to take things gradual and slow though.

It's good you're considering this carefully. You don't want to get crossed up with family or be dealing with consequences if something goes wrong. I'd trip sit him if I thought he could maintain. You will be in a position to help him avoid mistakes with setting, prep, dosage, etc. Having another friend as backup might even be a good idea.

If he doesn't have much experience with other psychedelics I might suggest to him he try mescaline first.

If he's like your brother, help him.

That's it. If he means something to you, then help him through. Talk to him, be his sitter. You are no shaman but it's surely 200% better if ANYBODY is with him instead of him doing his first steps in psychedelic conciousness alone. Because in my opinion doing this alone has a huge potential to go wrong. Don't make yourself responsible for anything that happens though. You are not in his mind.
A good friend of mine committed suicide one week after a 4g mushroom trip this january, and I gave him the mushrooms AND sitted him. He had a long history in psychiatry, tried to kill himself two times before, and hoped the mushrooms could help him, because nothing else did.
Well, the only way I can see that now is that no matter what, I did what I could... It was his decision, he had a bad experience, and he gave up his live then. Things sometimes don't go as planned, thats what I've learnt from that in a harsh way.
But it would have certainly been worse for me (and him of course) if I didn't help him at all.

Sorry for being a little off topic btw...

I agree with Nathanial.Dread. Don't worry too much. Offer to be his sitter and help him to mitigate any difficulties encountered, but be liberal about it and do not project your own fears. Don't try too much to control him, that will generally work counterproductively

If your friend really has an abusive intent toward dmt, the dmt will show it to him, no doubt. Just be there to help provide baseline safety. If it isn't that bad actually and it's just your projected fears, being there in a sympathetic way will do no harm anyway.

It goes without saying oh wait, no, it can't be stated enough- that entering into these spaces should be done in the company of another in case something going wrong. In a perfect world the accommodations would be in place for medical or emotional crises, but at the least, one who is able to call emergency sources and deal with uniforms should be on hand.

That said trip sitting and experience facilitating are two different animals altogether. You say that you don't feel that you have the internal resources to guide your friend; well, then don't. Simply be there so he doesn't walk off a balcony, or to help him to the bathroom,and be a compassionate, empathic supportive landline to concensus reality.

Now, THAT said , I think I'm missing something In your original post, VoidStepper. Specifically, what was/is the exact catalyst for your concern and what do fear may occur? Without trying to sound condescending myself, the story I'm making up in my head involves a sense that you are somehow a gatekeeper for the experience for him. I applaud you for encouraging research on his part, but why are you reluctant to give him the info (that shall not be named, amongst othe) he needs to successfully extract?

I second what @null24 said. Why don't you trust your "brother"? He's an adult, and as you said, he's smart enough to learn all he needs to learn.

Are you sure you're not just "power tripping" on being some kind of family shaman / gatekeeper? You're really not. You've showed him something you like, so why are you surprised he likes it too? Why are you withholding information from him? It sounds you seriously doubt his judgement - but if you do, why did you share any spice with him in the first place?

ADD: As a suggestion, your best course of action now is to drown your bro in information. Stop trying to control him, and if you feel he doesn't understand what he's getting into, show him. Show him the Erowid Aya and DMT vaults, direct his attention to some bad trip experience reports, show him the Nexus, the safe use and FAQ wiki pages. There's no better antidote to foolishness than knowledge.

Voidstepper, it sounds like you see a disaster coming and you don't wanna be part of it? That suspicion is understandable and it might be valid or non valid, that is a question without an answer for now.

But can you ever make the right decision on this?
If things go south for him, then whether you helped or not, you are always vulnerable to get a bill for that, even trough self guild.
Then things can go fine too!!

Question: have you told him your concerns just like you told here?
You are entitled to have doubts and in-certainties/insecurities about all this, but I suggest (or have you already?) be totally open with him about this:

Tell him you're afraid of his attitude in combo with powerful stuff?
The forum can attest that many came trough a tripp'n balls door, and got their deserved corrections if that was needed.

As said, you can minimize your responsibility and be that "partial help" that intersects between no-help-at-all and every-help-he-expects. Sitting can also be camping in the next room but being available, or just reserving yourself that particular time frame being available by phone and you having the means of solid transport to get there smooth.

I hope you find a sweet win-win.

I don't think I was abundantly clear in my original post. He had asked me to give him some and where I got the plants from for which I declined. I told him a little bit about the process of extraction with regards to the plant used and told him that I had found out how via the net. He didn't pry further. I assume that was because he probably figured that he would just do the same and google it up. I didn't tell him how to make the tea as I never have myself.




Control is my issue for sure. Thank you for calling me out on it. It's a frequent lesson I have had with La Medicina, one I continue to struggle with. I knew he would like it, so I'm not surprised he wants more. It's just my feelings of responsibility because of my introducing him.



I'm not withholding information, just my sources.



Initially I thought that he might experience something that would change his approach to psychedelics to one of respect. Rather than a substance to use and possibly abuse. This comes back to my issues of control.



I haven't had a chance to talk to him yet. He was supposed to come by this past weekend but he got struck with the flu. I feel this is an in-person conversation and not one for the phone.

Thanks for all the good advice from everyone.

I have decided to chat with him to see what his plans are first before I get too presumptuous about his plans. If he wants to extract the spice, I'll do that with him, I'm fine with that.

If he wants to drink pharma solo or with some others I will offer to watch, but with not before talking about safety and all that other good stuff. I will leave my concerns out of it, because they are my issues and NOT his. That being said I will inundate him with information so that he might approach with caution. Heck he's probably on these forums and might even see this, in which case...it's out there and I can't take it back.

Sounds like you have got this under control
Watching a friend learn to do this stuff for themselves can be scary.
I`d imagine it is similar to how a mother feels when her child learns to drive.
Be there to offer support & guidance. Make sure he does not brew Alicia anesopetala thinking it is banisteriopsis caapi, don't let him use HCL in aluminum pots or drano as a base, etc. & offer tips when he makes mistakes.

I think if you let him know your concern about dosage & explain to him that things can get much deeper than he can ever imagine rather quickly he may understand & take things a bit slower. Just do what you can to get it through to him that DMT has the potential to be much more powerful than what he is equating it to & it is very easy even for extremely experienced trippers to get in over their head.

i avoid these types of scenarios like the plague.
my team screens people thru a 10 micron mesh.

i have a large group of friends / associates.
many are aware of what i am , but i dont discuss it really.
those interested in space travel , can apply for the inner circle.
only those with serious flight miles are considered.

IMO , one has no choice but to insulate themselves from the liability of noobs.
any " friend" i ever had, that leaned on me for trips, turned to some kind of fiasco.

i always ask a simple question......
does this person NEED me to trip?
if the answer is yes , i decline.

if they dont need me, they can have what they want.


* and now a word from the old cactus lady.........

" by the time most of you are my age, (old)
most of your counter culture friends will be dead, still in jail, in mental hospitals, or completely dropped out and family involved, or stuck in loser careers / lifestyles.
a good portion will also cease hallucinogens and become addicts to other drugs.
only the toughest practitioners last a decade or more in true psychedelic form and thrive.

there are very few you can actually help, but all are a liability.
.......dont get too attached."

theres old psychonauts, and bold psychonauts.
as i get older , i see less and less bolder..............

we cant shortcut peoples karma with hallucinogens and help them.
we can only let them earn it and learn it.

your mileage may vary, but its an observation i share with alot of old psychonauts.
sorry if it sounds brutal, but i suggest it to you all,
in the same good faith spirit as the OP has concern for his friend.

IMO the shaman serves those in need when worthy, and never negotiates that.

There might be another lesson here as well....

If you want to teach someone something - then be prepared to see it through.

Kinda seems like you wanted to teach him something but kinda did it half-assed.... Not so much follow through on the lesson. Just "If he smokes DMT then he will learn?!"

Some people think that DMT or Ayahuasca will only show people the truth and are always healing... This isnt the case. Many people abuse these things. Think about all the people selling Ayahuasca for profit, molesting women in ceremonies, brujos, swindlers ect.... They often drink medicine and still do these things. People abuse the medicine all the time. So I think to really spread a message of respect about the medicine people have to participate in showing the benefits of that respect because the medicine wont necessarily do it for us.

It would still be up to your friend whether or not he wants to listen to you.... But I think if you really feel there is an important lesson that would help him - maybe there is a way for you to be more committed to helping him learn by introducing him to some more information. If he is like a brother then I think he would appreciate your views and suggestions at least enough to listen to them. He may or may not agree, and that is up to him, but at least you can share your perspective.

"He is an adult, he is entitled to make his own mistakes"

There is a lot of truth here. Perhaps my approach that DMT and Aya are the teachers and healers is naive. Either way I've been integral in his first steps down this path now I should see it through.

In the future I'm thinking I will be much more wary about who I share it with.

Travsha's initial reaction has some very good advice about dosage and safety. I hope you are able to communicate this effectively to your friend.

Not a bad idea...

I'll echo some of what Anne had to say and that it took me many years and tries to learn caution and not to cast my pearls before swine.

It took me a while to realize a lot of my "pearls" might just be my own shit, and what I thought was swine often had what I now think of as pearls to offer up.

Just sayin..sometimes ya gotta know when to fold em. <3

Love each other more. It feels better.